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Rent A Bit Of Weta Digital

An anonymous reader writes linking to this story at stuff.co.nz, excerpting: "Five hundred powerful computers used by Weta Digital to help create the special effects for the Lord of the Rings may be put up for hire.... The pizza-box sized IBM blade servers each incorporate dual 2.8 gigahertz Intel Xeon processors and 6 [gigabytes?] of memory." Update: 03/22 07:08 GMT by S : The linked story says 6 megabytes of memory, we don't believe 'em.

56 of 210 comments (clear)

  1. 6MB? by Biogenesis · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Shoulden't that read 6GB?

  2. Imagine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    A beowulf .. oh wait ...

  3. Cost? by nb+caffeine · · Score: 5, Funny

    What would this cost? Do they charge something like cpu/hours or the like? Will the average person have the ability to rent some clock cycles? I just want something that will be able to run doom3 when it comes out.

    --

    "Something's wrong with you...and I hope we never do meet again." - Deftones When Girls Telephone Boys
  4. Pizza-delivery! by The_Ace666 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Now where can I find a pizza-delivery company to get one of these babies delivered to my door?

    1. Re:Pizza-delivery! by DigiShaman · · Score: 5, Funny

      Either way, they'll be hot! (pun intended)

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    2. Re:Pizza-delivery! by T-Kir · · Score: 2, Funny

      ...and if they don't deliver within a certain time, then hopefully you'll get it for free! :)

      --
      Are you local? There's nothing for you here!
  5. Wow by KU_Fletch · · Score: 4, Funny

    A whole 6 megabytes of memory?! Way to beat up my 486.

    --
    It's not stupid. It's advanced.
    1. Re:Wow by xkenny13 · · Score: 2, Funny

      A whole 6 megabytes of memory?!

      Yup!! It's amazing what you can accomplish once you get rid of all the bloatware.

  6. Update by hlopez · · Score: 5, Funny

    Update: 03/22 07:08 GMT by S
    -we don't believe 'YOU-

  7. I'd like to run ray tracing real time on this by SexyKellyOsbourne · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm rather tired of waiting for graphics to progress to the level they will be in in the year 2010 or so. I'd like to see these machines, which rendered Lord of the Rings, use their nearly unlimited processing power to let me play a game -- perhaps Half-Life or Quake 2 with a new rendering DLL -- to spit out 60fps of pure ray-traced bliss.

    Or just fire up InTrace with a scene of 1 billion polygons of a super-detailed scene of sunflowers, with multiple reflections and all the other goodies, and crank it to 1600x1200.

    I can dream, can't I? :)

    1. Re:I'd like to run ray tracing real time on this by troon · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'm rather tired of waiting for graphics to progress to the level they will be in in the year 2010 or so.

      Just give it six years or so, and you should see the improvements you are waiting for.

      --
      Ydco co ,df C erb-y go. a Ekrpat t.fxrapev
    2. Re:I'd like to run ray tracing real time on this by Viceice · · Score: 4, Funny

      you know, if you ONLY wanted so SEE something like that, you could go out doors and look for a field covered in sunflowers.

      --
      Sometimes I wish I was a plumber, then I'd know how to deal with other people's shit.
    3. Re:I'd like to run ray tracing real time on this by QuantumFTL · · Score: 5, Informative

      Check out http://www.worley.com/fprime.html

      My part-time employer (when I'm not working for NASA/JPL) Maas Digital just bought a copy of the software... it utilizes stochastic methods to allow flexible real-time raytrace rendering (with good motion blur!)

      It turns out that motion blur in 3D graphics is a very hard problem because it's essentially a high-dimensional integral, and it turns out the best method of doing generalized high-dimensional numerical integration is a stochastic algorithm (monte carlo method) so it's not surprising to me that it's a great way to do motion blurs.

      My favorite aspect of stochastic methods is their ability to be continuously refined (for instance, in a video game, the longer you spent looking at an object, the better it would get etc, and the graphics performance would degrade very smoothly with changes in system load etc). It is also ideal for parallel processing, as it can be dynamically parallelized to completely heterogeneous computing nodes.

      Dan and I agree that there's going to be a lot of stochastic algorithms in the future of computer graphics (though he is hopeful that analytical methods will eventually make a comeback, as they have better asymptotic performance).

      Cheers,
      Justin Wick

    4. Re:I'd like to run ray tracing real time on this by iwein · · Score: 2, Funny

      I tried your suggestion and to be honest, compared to the way graphics will look in 2010 or so it looked like shit... i mean there was even _fog_ there...

      maybe you have some tips to tweak it to a more acceptable level?

      --
      Show a man some news, distract him for an hour. Show a man some mod points, distract him for the rest of his life.
    5. Re:I'd like to run ray tracing real time on this by forkazoo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Basically, a normal renderer will render the scene from the top down. A Stochastic raytracer like F-Prime renders by shooting random rays all over wherever-the-fuck. As you leave the algorithm running, the image starts to look better and better. The more CPU time is spent on the image, the more rays are traced, and the better everything is. But, if you only have a small amount of CPU time, you still get a rough idea of what the scene look like, rather than an exact idea of what the top thirs looks like. That's really rough. To understand the point about motion blur, it really would be best to understand multidimensional integrals.

  8. Woot! by SillySnake · · Score: 2, Funny

    Finally a computer able to run the super-ulta-mega high detail Duke Nukem forever! Yes, that's right, the game is finished and just waiting for the computer graphics and processing worlds to catch up to it.. err, right? I mean.. Doom 3! err.. wait.. bah.. Never mind that Still, I would think that unless a company needed results very quickly a seti like application would be much cheaper. If the software guys can code one that can run on the company's network overnight or just at random downtime during the day, then the company ought to save a bunch of money. If they can make it pretty and flash like SETI, then other people might even use it. It just makes more sense to save money in a non-critical manor like that.

  9. One thing to say... by linuxkrn · · Score: 5, Interesting

    seti@home!

    1. Re:One thing to say... by MagicDude · · Score: 4, Funny

      No, we need something nerdier and more useless, like the biggest prime number ever.

    2. Re:One thing to say... by CGP314 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      folding@home

      I used to run seti@home instead of folding@home, but then one day I realized I needed to switch. While finding extraterrestrial life would be the most important development in human history to date, the chances of finding it in my lifetime are very small.

      On the other hand, the chances of my getting cancer or any of the other of the diseases folding@home works on is very great. Plus, if folding@home cures any of these diseases, it will extend my life and increase the chances that extraterrestrials will be found within my lifetime.


      -Colin

    3. Re:One thing to say... by CGP314 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Using your backassward logic, it seems more logical to devote your CPU time to researching automotive traffic patterns, so you don't get killed in an auto accident or get hit by a bus.

      If there was a project that I could devote my CPU cycles that could reduce the possibility of me getting into a car accident, then I would drop folding@home for dontgethitbyacar@home. What's backassward about risk assesment?


      -Colin

    4. Re:One thing to say... by ckaminski · · Score: 2, Interesting

      No offense, but if I'm an ET, and the race I just dropped into visit hasn't gotten around to figuring out how to stop the #1 genetic suicide mechanism built into their own bodies, I'm NOT helping them.
      Then again, that's the human in me talking.

  10. Distributed.net... by rthille · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Imagine distributed.net being a CPU co-op. They take problems from clients in need of a ton of CPU, farm it out to distributed.net members, and at the end of the month/year you get a small check for all the CPU cycles you spent helping solve problems.

    --
    Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
    1. Re:Distributed.net... by SillySnake · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A great idea in theory, but how would they track the amount of help that you did in a way that would be one hundred percent hack proof? I don't think you'd want to pay people to analyze every packet that you get back to make sure it's had whatever needed done, done to it. Granted, it would be possible to elimnate most unwanted results with a couple of filters, but when money becomes an issue the community will do what they can to get the most of it.

    2. Re:Distributed.net... by irc.goatse.cx+troll · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Easy -- Make the 'money' be not real money, but a lack of ads/nagging.

      Imagine getting prompted upon installing an application whether you want to A) pay B) have ads or C) donate cpu cycles.
      This would then allow developers to make money off of their software without making it unusable due to ad annoyance (xfire, aim, most shareware)

      --
      Pain lasts, kid. Its how you know you're alive. Sometimes I think this growing up thing is just pain management-TheMaxx
    3. Re:Distributed.net... by bobthemonkey13 · · Score: 4, Funny
      Better yet, let's make a program that makes you pay, has ads, and forces you to donate CPU cycles.

      We could call it KaZaA.

    4. Re:Distributed.net... by Motherfucking+Shit · · Score: 5, Informative
      Imagine distributed.net being a CPU co-op. They take problems from clients in need of a ton of CPU, farm it out to distributed.net members, and at the end of the month/year you get a small check for all the CPU cycles you spent helping solve problems.
      This was already tried, by a company called ProcessTree. The idea was that they'd sell your CPU cycles out and you'd get a cut. They also had it set up in a pyramid fashion, so that you also got an extra few cents for each person you referred to the program.

      The best I could find was this mirror of the FAQ. Since ProcessTree.com now belongs to a domain poacher, I'm guessing they never did find a paying client...
      --
      "BSD: Free as in speech. Linux: Free as in beer. Windows 10: Free as in herpes." --Man On Pink Corner in #52607549.
  11. Re:6 megabytes? by harlows_monkeys · · Score: 4, Informative
    Bill Gates said it best...

    No he didn't.

  12. I'm signing up right now! by teamhasnoi · · Score: 4, Funny
    I'm going to re-fake the moon landing, but do it right this time! No numbers on rocks, no waving flag, or overlapped crosshairs.

    I may have to re-release the Mars landing too, depending on how well they did...

    Beagle was a great idea, btw. Spend the money and then oops! no mission to render. Sheer genius.

  13. Maybe they're right by ctr2sprt · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Update: 03/22 07:08 GMT by S: The linked story says 6 megabytes of memory, we don't believe 'em.
    They might mean 6MB of L2 cache. I don't know what cache sizes are available for Xeons, but probably when you order 1000 CPUs at once Intel are willing to give you hard-to-find stuff.
    1. Re:Maybe they're right by slash-tard · · Score: 5, Informative

      Xeons only go up to 4 megs of cache and those were just recently released. At the time these were bought the max was 2 megs.

    2. Re:Maybe they're right by drudd · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Trust me, 6 GB goes by very quickly.

      So let's say I'm doing a simulation of structure formation in the universe.

      I have a cube grid of cells, 512 on a side (my own code uses adaptive mesh refinement to increase resolution, but we'll ignore that for simplicity).

      So each cell requires 3 floating variables to compute gravity, and 8 floating variables to calculate hydrodynamics. At 4 bytes per variable, that's a total of 5.5 GB just for the mesh.

      Then you need to add dark matter particles, allow for star formation and cooling, track different element species, and data structures to allow for adaptive mesh refinement.... each of which have similar memory requirements.

      Doug

      --
      Venn ist das nurnstuck git und Slotermeyer? Ya! Beigerhund das oder die Flipperwaldt gersput!
  14. Renderfarms online - old news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Posting anon as I have an interest in some of these companies :
    http://www.respower.com/ - 250+ machines (~500GHz), 250GB ram
    http://www.rendercore.com/ - 700 machines
    http://www.render-it.co.uk/ - 82 cpus (131GHz), 82GB ram)

    The only 'interesting' thing here is that it's WETA's farm. Other than that, I doubt they offer the wide selection of software (lest they struck deals lately) not to mention field experience with 'oddball' files.

    Good luck to them, though

    1. Re:Renderfarms online - old news by rimu+guy · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Boy did WETA fuck up on this one.

      Boy, did they ever. The graphics in the Lotr and Master and commander sucked. The movies were released late. No one won any awards. And the NZ film industry is in tatters.

      No wait. I mean the opposite of all that.

      Weta knew up front the boxes were only of any use to them for a couple of years. They _budgeted_ on throwing them away after the Lotr trilogy was done. If they can get anything back on them now, more power to them.

      Personally, I think its very cool. I'm even seeing if I can get a couple of machines from them to host some of my Lotr-fan customers on. I for one would be keen to run on an ex-Weta server.

      - Linux VPS Hosting

    2. Re:Renderfarms online - old news by sakusha · · Score: 2, Informative

      You don't get it. They're going to throw away more money trying to rent the server farm than if they just send them to a toxic waste dump in China. Unless, of course they can get nutball otaku like you to buy the old blades at extortionate prices as your little trophy, just so you can say "hey dude we can host your pr0n website on a machine they used to make LOTR!"

  15. LAN Connection ? by ultranova · · Score: 5, Funny

    Surely they used Token Ring to connect them ?

    --

    Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    1. Re:LAN Connection ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That joke is so old that people get it even when you misspell the punch line.

  16. Nasty hobbits. They tricked us! Thieves! by pariahdecss · · Score: 5, Funny

    Nasty fat hobbit probably sold the extra RAM to buy Twinkies(R)

  17. I don't see why not. by torpor · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If you've got renderman set up to render to disk, and your disk arrays are pretty fast, I don't see any reason why these dedicated render machines shouldn't have only 6 megabytes of RAM per CPU.

    okay, it doesn't make a -ton- of sense to render direct to disk, but maybe it can be done and not require so much RAM?

    --
    ; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
    1. Re:I don't see why not. by Jexx+Dragon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You said it right there... 6MB of RAM per CPU... Five hundred computers... Thats a mighty big number. Since its a cluster each node has to render only a small part of the image and can render to disk.

      --
      I don't have time to comment my code, the program is late already.
    2. Re:I don't see why not. by torpor · · Score: 2, Interesting


      (i'm thinking less general-purpose computing purchase, and i think you are thinking more ...)

      yeah, so i thought 6Megs was a typo at first, but then i considered the mere possibility that they may just have spec'ed their RAM to their direct process requirements, 'embedded system' style.

      and, i still don't see why not... though your point about RAM being available in sizes less than 64 megs is valid, i've seen 8meg dimm's for 2ghz Pentium systems, cheap, all over the place. remember, this is new zealand we're talking about, not fry's, burbank. they want something easily replaceable, locally.

      maybe then the question would be 'where did the other 2megs go', and that might answer your videocard situation. plenty of 2ghz Pentium mobo's do video sharing...

      i know it doesn't make 'sense'. but, on the other hand, i don't see why not. why buy so much ram if you've determined that you don't really have to for your specific application? i've seen tons of systems designed, and put into exceptional use, that way ... not all general purpose computing laws (of economics, of use) are applicable in specific-purpose stuff ...

      but hey, it could be a typo. 6gigs would 'make more sense', I suppose...

      --
      ; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
  18. 6 Gigabytes on a 32bit CPU? by ProfessionalCookie · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Correct me if I'm wrong here but aren't the Xeons currently 32 bit? Doesn't that mean they can't address more than 4 Gigs? I thought that's what the whole big deal was with 64 bit. Now maybe if they were G5s...

    1. Re:6 Gigabytes on a 32bit CPU? by Xpilot · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well, initially 32-bit Intel chips could only address 4GB's, but recently we have crazy shit like PAE that allows up to 16GB RAM to be installed and addressed by the OS that supports it, but applications can still only use 4GB at a time.

      --
      "Backups are for wimps. Real men upload their data to an FTP site and have everyone else mirror it." -- Linus Torvalds
    2. Re:6 Gigabytes on a 32bit CPU? by bbrazil · · Score: 2, Informative
      PAE that allows up to 16GB RAM to be installed
      Actually its 64Gb. Around the PII 4 extra bits were added to bring it to 36bits.
      Of course its a bit faster to access 16Gb rather than 64Gb and faster againt access 4Gb for some PAE reason.
  19. Sell 'em on e-bay by GloomE · · Score: 5, Funny

    Wouldn't they make more by selling them as (framed) collector's items?
    Blade 1 of 500: current bid $1(insert zeros here).

  20. interconnect by painehope · · Score: 5, Insightful

    the real killer is that there's quite a few industries that can't rent time on their cluster because the gigabit interconnect ( IBM blade chassis have a switch module internal to each chassis, and I don't think you can get any HSLL - high-speed, low-latency - network interconnect modules ( Myrinet, SCI, Quadrics, etc. ) for them ) has too high of a latency for their applications.

    Bandwidth-wise they should be fine, as each chassis has at least four ports that could be trunked to a top-level switch w/ a beefy backplane ( I could tell you the # of ports per chassis if I was at work, as I've been messing w/ some of their blades lately ), giving a peak per-chassis bw of > 400 MB/sec.

    Of course, I'm wondering how Weta got around it themselves, as I would think that rendering digital video is fairly heavy on inter-node communication. This would still be aswesome for web-servers or problems that are "embarassingly parallel".

    --
    PC moderators can suck my White pierced, tattooed dick. If you think pride == hate, s/dick/Aryan meat mallet/g.
    1. Re:interconnect by 2megs · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Rendering digital video is about as parallel as compute loads get. Generally each frame can be an independent computation. For most ray-tracing algorithms, computing each pixel of each frame is fully parallelizable too.

      The global AI things they did to have 10,000 troops all interacting together is obviously not quite so independent, but I'm willing to be the bulk of the compute load goes into creating pictures of those interactions, not the interactions themselves.

    2. Re:interconnect by sakusha · · Score: 4, Informative

      You obviously have never worked in CG. Many common, simple effects cannot be parallelized. For example, Maya's particle effects are notorious for their inability to be parallelized and run on render farms, if they use randomness (and most particle fx do use randomness in positioning). Those fx must be rendered sequentially on a single CPU. Each frame's particle positions are used to calculate the next frame's particle positions, they're all calculated at runtime.

    3. Re:interconnect by Obasan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually, rendering is fairly light on network requirements and very heavy on memory/cpu. (Download scene files & textures then crunch numbers for 10-40 minutes depending on layer complexity.)

      But the bladecenter chassis also does in fact support a Myrinet interconnect if you so desire.

    4. Re:interconnect by sakusha · · Score: 4, Informative

      That's a very complex subject, but it boils down to this: there's no technical reason you can't precalculate all the particle positions over time, but that's not how they did it in Maya.

      Let's say for example, you set a particle generator to run 60 frames, emitting smoke from a point, like from a cigarette tip. Smoke particles start emitting on frame 1, and continue on their path, particles persist through frame 60 as they drift upwards in a path influenced by random air currents. If you roll forward to frame 30 and render the last half only, you start all over with no smoke from the first 30 frames, it starts from scratch, they emit right from the tip in a new smoke trail, there's no history of past particle movement. So you'd get a huge discontinuity if you rendered the frames in batches.
      As far as I can tell, the actual image rendering doesn't influence the positions of the particles. It's just that they're calculated sequentially as each frame is rendered. Yeah, it's a huge pain and there aren't many good workarounds. But that's what you have to work with in order to use the particle generators, which are hugely powerful. Its the worst possible method, except for everything else anyone's ever thought of.

  21. no reason to doubt 6GB by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    The IBM HS20 has 4 DIMM slots used in banks of 2. No reason to think 2x2GB and 2x1GB would not work.
    Linux, FreeBSD or Windows 2000 AS would support PAE allowing an app to use close to 4GB, leaving 2 GB for OS kernel , so seems reasonable.

    Ay one who doesent believe me check at crucial.com. I wont provide a URL but look for IBM, Bladecenter, HS20

  22. STOP THAT 6MB LAME JOKES by robbyjo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Please...

    This may be an old news, but the details of that machine is here. That's some stuff to drool over. Some excerpts:

    ... provide a combination of 4TB of online storage and more than 20TB of nearline storage as a global storage repository ...

    ... create and manage up to 100TB of data ...

    And now this machine is up for a rent. Here's the company website.

    --

    --
    Error 500: Internal sig error
  23. Re:Excuses, excuses by zcat_NZ · · Score: 2, Funny

    The time when we need in excess of 640 GB or RAM will be closer than you think. I give it 5 years absolute tops. Probably less.

    Depends on how early they get Longhorn out the door, I guess :)

    --
    455fe10422ca29c4933f95052b792ab2
  24. Marketroid Amalgamation. by Behrooz · · Score: 2, Funny

    Maybe it's 6MB of L2 or other on-CPU high-speed cache. An odd number, but it makes a lot more sense than any other explanation I can think of.

    I'm betting it's another marketroid amalgamation... something along the lines of:

    "1MB of L1 cache and 2MB of L2 cache per processor, for a total of 6MB per machine!"

    Just like those old '64 bit!' console advertisements. Uhh, yeah, 16 bits pipeline times three pipelines plus two extra 8-bit memory thingamajiggies may add up to 64 bits, but it for damn sure isn't a 64-bit machine.

    --
    "We have to go forth and crush every world view that doesn't believe in tolerance and free speech." - David Brin
  25. Re:Lamenting the fall of pizzabox desktops by Jexx+Dragon · · Score: 3, Funny

    Buy a good 1U rack. Sit it on your desk. Instant "Pizzabox" desktop.

    --
    I don't have time to comment my code, the program is late already.
  26. Rather a contrast to the computer they used..... by zmollusc · · Score: 3, Funny

    to develop the military tactics used in the battle scenes. Cavelry charge (with lances) against infantry dug into rocks and buildings. Most inept castle defence ever devised. Etc etc. I assume it was all worked out on an unplugged (insert archaic/obscure home computer).

    --
    They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
  27. Now we find out if "grid computing" sells by Animats · · Score: 2, Insightful
    OK, "grid computing" fans, here it is, a big CPU resource open for commercial customers. Let's see if people line up to buy cycles. There must be paying customers out there who want to do rendering, or VLSI simulation, or numerical wind-tunnel tests of wing sections, or something.

    We're waiting...

    As I've pointed out before, if there was a market for this, ISPs would be selling off-peak CPU time on their hosting farms.