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Man Accused of Attempting to Extort Google

sandalwood writes "A programmer has been arrested on charges of attempting to "threaten Google with a software program he devised that creates phony clicks on pop-up advertisements delivered by Google. Google pays Web site publishers companies a certain amount for legitimate hits on those ads, but Bradley created a method that generates false clicks that appeared to be real Internet traffic, which would have repeatedly defrauded Google... Bradley contacted Google in early March, informing company officials that he had created the program and wanted $100,000 to keep him from selling it to spammers, according to an affidavit by a U.S. Secret Service agent." A harbinger of organized crime to come? That's a real nice website you have here... a shame if anything were to happen to it..."

95 of 302 comments (clear)

  1. Or vice versa by Space+cowboy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Want to really annoy your competition ? Do the same thing actually on a google search page - just make it "search" 1000 times for words that bring up your competitions 'adwords' box, then "click" the adwords link. Google then bills your competitor for the maximum (s)he specified per day/week/month and, bonus!, your competitor then drops down the rankings for which google Adword to display...

    Random words mixed in with the key ones, random delays between searches, random User-Agent, etc., etc. Seems like it would be easy to do, and hard to track...

    Simon.

    --
    Physicists get Hadrons!
    1. Re:Or vice versa by Mr.+Darl+McBride · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Want to really annoy your competition ? Do the same thing actually on a google search page - just make it "search" 1000 times for words that bring up your competitions 'adwords' box, then "click" the adwords link.
      Presumably Google has something that filters excessive traffic by IPs not known to be proxies for places like AOL.

      The problem comes in when there are all these databases of open web proxies and code in CPAN for accessing and using those. :/

    2. Re:Or vice versa by stonebeat.org · · Score: 4, Informative

      actually this will not work. Google use statistical data to stop the user from doing this. It will almost have to be a DDOS attack (i.e. have thousands of IP addresses click on the AD) to pull this off. In that case it would be much easier just to DDOS the website of your competitor. Just like what happened to SCO.com

    3. Re:Or vice versa by psycho_tinman · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Well, I don't see how this person could offer up a tool for extortion without figuring out how to spoof IP addresses, anyway. Surely, it would raise an alert if most, if not ALL of your clickthroughs came from a single small set of IPs ? Also, one nitpick about the article, since when does Google offer popup advertising ?

      I'm quite certain plenty of programmers know how to fake clickthroughs, or they could sit down and figure it out. Spoofing IP addresses, on the other hand, would be slightly more difficult.. and there are only so many open proxies and so on.

      On a slightly more depressing note, this sounds like a perfect scheme for all those zombie machines that are being spawned out there (with email worms). Instead of doing a Distributed DOS or sending out spam (which are their current uses, and can be easily traced back), if they were used to randomly send out a few million clicks, or to host a mini link farm for Googlebot's eyes only.... the possibilities for spamming become endless. Scary thought.

    4. Re:Or vice versa by walter_kovacs · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Actually no, click fraud is a real problem with Google (and all other pay per click engines). There have been many times when my Adwords traffic has spiked, sales have plummeted and conversions gone through the floor, and I am 99% sure that it is click fraud - the logs are just FULL of proxies, and Google seems helpless to do anything about it, but still happily collects the money.

    5. Re:Or vice versa by AndroidCat · · Score: 5, Informative

      That's why the article mentions spammers. The (old) trick works by sending out spam that generates a click-through when someone opens the email. (Or previews it in LookOut.) That way it comes from a whole bunch of IP addresses of people dumb enough to allow HTML script to run in their email.

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    6. Re:Or vice versa by pinkUZI · · Score: 4, Insightful

      um... guys,
      maybe I'm out of line here, but this is not a good topic to brain storm. Why do we want to devises more deviant ways to spam?
      And why hurt our precious Google!

      --
      You are receiving this message because your browser supports Slashdot Sigs and you have Slashdot Sigs enabled.
    7. Re:Or vice versa by AndroidCat · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As I said, click-through spam is old news from a few years ago. I'm sure anyone could find examples in news.admin.net-abuse.sightings if they search through GoogleGroups .. um .. or maybe not. :^P

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    8. Re:Or vice versa by idiot900 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      maybe I'm out of line here, but this is not a good topic to brain storm. Why do we want to devises more deviant ways to spam?
      And why hurt our precious Google!


      1) Because it's our intrinsic human right to think about whatever we want.
      2) Because some of us, as server administrators, must deal with spam in all its vile forms, and we therefore must know our enemy.

    9. Re:Or vice versa by Dun+Malg · · Score: 5, Insightful
      um... guys, maybe I'm out of line here, but this is not a good topic to brain storm. Why do we want to devises more deviant ways to spam? And why hurt our precious Google!

      Pretending no one thought of it is not an effective way to prevent others from thinking of it. We want all possible exploits to be exposed, so they can be dealt with. You're advocating security through obscurity.

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    10. Re:Or vice versa by AndroidCat · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yep, too late--some damned fool already posted about that trick to news.admin.net-abuse.email back in May of 2001. D'OH! :^)

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    11. Re:Or vice versa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      There is a valid methods for doing this. I know more than one, orginally I was going to post it, but greedy slimy business men might read this and get a programmer to write it. A little unknown fact, right from a GOOGLE engineer, and I quote "We DO NOT check for spam clicking". Guys, THIS IS ALREADY BEING DONE. THIS is not new news. I Hope the FBI does their job and get the a--holes that are doing. Google is not the ONLY victim, Looksmart, overture ( yes overture, i know about the split servers to prevent double clicking, might want to try a more elegant solution) . While this is not rampant, it is being done in HIGHLY competive spaces. I know for a fact these devices are in place.

      Google, and the other search engines know about this, and done very little to stop mass clicking.

      This costs the small companies a lot of cash, because you will have bigger enties running a software application and bringing up their PPC costs. Plus the fact, most smaller companies are not as indept in PPC marketing.

      Sincerly,

      Anonymous Coward

    12. Re:Or vice versa by Permission+Denied · · Score: 2, Informative
      The (old) trick works by sending out spam that generates a click-through when someone opens the email.

      Presumably Google is smart enough to check referer logs when charging for adwords. If they don't check referers, a much simpler and more reliable attack is to embed a 1px by 1px iframe in your own high-traffic website.

    13. Re:Or vice versa by dubl-u · · Score: 4, Insightful

      1) Because it's our intrinsic human right to think about whatever we want.

      FYI, thinking is something you do inside your head. Talking, on the other hand, is an action that can have consequences in the world. It's unfortunate that the urge to accept responsibility for the consequences of one's actions is not quite as intrinsic as the urge to run one's mouth.

    14. Re:Or vice versa by BizidyDizidy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This term is the most overused sack of crap going right now. Details a modern security system that isn't fundamentally equivalent to security through obscurity.

      --
      The safest way to approach lava is to have another person with you and he goes first.
    15. Re:Or vice versa by Camel+Pilot · · Score: 4, Informative
      I have had similar experiences. Overture (aka yahoo) attempts to console you with their Click Protection buzz words. But in reality they do not filter out the even the most basic fraudulent clicks.

      Here is summary of my recent experience with Overture's Click Protection program. Overture e-mail responses are almost unbelievable.
      Overture claims to provide "Click Protection" for their pay-per-click advertising service. In reality they fail to prevent the most basic and easiest to detect non-authentic clicks - that is competitors clicking on competitors. They do not even filter out a customer clicking on their own links from within the Overture manager. Nor do they provide a method for an advertiser to test their own ad rendered URL's - a necessary function as a means to test the validity of an entered URL. Since filtering out such clicks would be simple and straight forward using established cookies or session id's - I can only speculate the reasons for not patching this obvious flaw and question the "sophistication of Overtures "Click Protection".
    16. Re:Or vice versa by BizidyDizidy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I guess I don't really understand this security system. If somebody actually knows what you look like, why need photo id? Photo ID's alone clearly have a ton of obscurity built into them. For instance, there are hidden security features that aren't fully known so they are difficult to reproduce. Also, the equipment for making ID's is rare, and thus obscure. Someone who knows what you look like is a decent example. It's benefit is, at this time, it is impractically difficult to impersonate someone with great accuracy, and so we don't have to use obscurity. The same thing can be said to some degree about any system that requires you to have a physical object, but the line is very blurry. I would argue that, fundamentally, requiring someone to have something that is kept hidden, protected is security by obscurity. For instance, you wouldn't leave your keycard laying around Times Square with a sign that says "Secret Passcard". For some reason, when you take it so far as needing an actual person, it seems less so, but it's still not entirely obvious that it isn't a different manifestation of StO.

      --
      The safest way to approach lava is to have another person with you and he goes first.
    17. Re:Or vice versa by SnappleMaster · · Score: 2, Informative

      Security through obscurity is not bad. But if a system relies upon it as a main line of defense, the system is flawed. The moment the obscurity is broken, the system is compromised.

      Obscurity can be broken trivially. But security cannot be broken by a simple discovery of a hole in the algorithm.

      Why should we "brainstorm" against a system that is secure only through obscurity? Because someone *will* break the "security" and then all users will be screwed. Better to do it sooner than later and force it to be improved.

      --
      Be happy. Nothing else matters.
    18. Re:Or vice versa by SnappleMaster · · Score: 2, Informative

      "If they don't check referers, a much simpler and more reliable attack is to embed a 1px by 1px iframe in your own high-traffic website."

      That's silly. For one thing, how many of us own a high-traffic website? For another, if you're going to do that why not just write a script to hammer google with requests? Would google really care about the difference? If they see a high-traffic website hammering them and suspect foul play they'll examine the source and see that it is malicious. In the end they'll consider you as bad as the script kiddie.

      --
      Be happy. Nothing else matters.
    19. Re:Or vice versa by vrai · · Score: 3, Informative
      The slashdot password system is not security through obscurity. It's a (hopefully) secure system that relies on a private token. Anyone can download the source code to Slashdot, but knowledge of how it works doesn't allow you to compromise the an given account.

      As a more common example, take PGP. PGP uses a well known algorithm, but that does not make PGP insecure. Even if you steal a person's private key - you can only compromise their date, other PGP users are safe.

      Security through obscurity is when a system is only secure if its workings/algorithms remain secret. For any system that is to be distributed outside of a controlled environment this is a very bad idea, as it's almost guaranteed that someone will crack it.

    20. Re:Or vice versa by Tatarize · · Score: 3, Insightful

      3) Because while brainstorming we are helping to inform the other very smart people on the site about the problem, and somebody might churn out an answer. Information and ideas are not weapons, they are the solution.

      --

      It is no longer uncommon to be uncommon.
    21. Re:Or vice versa by JohnFluxx · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The argument is that the password itself counts as security through obscurity. So in that case yes slashdot does use security through obscurity.

      If instead, for example, slashdot logged you in based on your ip, then that wouldn't be security though obscurity.

    22. Re:Or vice versa by Chester+K · · Score: 2, Insightful

      FYI, thinking is something you do inside your head. Talking, on the other hand, is an action that can have consequences in the world. It's unfortunate that the urge to accept responsibility for the consequences of one's actions is not quite as intrinsic as the urge to run one's mouth.

      Talking is distributed thinking. As soon as you start looking down upon talking about abuse, you at the same time prevent anyone from doing anything to stop it.

      --

      NO CARRIER
  2. Using Google to extort Google? ;-) by ChaoticChaos · · Score: 5, Funny

    I wonder how long he had to Google before he figured out the technical details of how to do that? ;-)

    Search terms: "how to extort" AND money AND "from google" ;-)

    1. Re:Using Google to extort Google? ;-) by physicsboy500 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Google...

      The cause of and solution to all of life's problems

      --
      The original generic sig.
    2. Re:Using Google to extort Google? ;-) by Minwee · · Score: 5, Funny
      Your search - "how to extort" AND money AND "from google" - did not match any documents.

      Suggestions:
      - Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
      - Try different keywords.
      - Try extorting money from Yahoo! They! have! lots! of! money!
      - Try patenting PageRank and suing us.
      - Ask the underpants gnomes. They know everything.
      Also, you can try Google Answers for expert help with your search.
    3. Re:Using Google to extort Google? ;-) by BoomerSooner · · Score: 2, Funny

      I thought that was beer?

      At least that's Homer's view.

  3. Blackmail by darkmeridian · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is blackmail, plain and simple. It is just happening in cyberspace and the current laws are thankfully being applied in this new world. There is no genuine economic transaction being furthered by this man's program but to destroy Google's income. He doesn't have a leg to stand on in court.

    --
    A NYC lawyer blogs. http://www.chuangblog.com/
    1. Re:Blackmail by ackthpt · · Score: 2, Funny
      Be honest, how old did you think this guy was, before reading the article? 12? 14?

      Michael Anthony Bradley, 32

      Probably still has his mothers umbilical cord attached. Sheesh.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  4. Found him! by Mr.+Darl+McBride · · Score: 5, Funny

    You can find articles about the fellow by looking at the top Google hits for "moron," "fucktard," and "what the hell were you thinking?"

    1. Re:Found him! by BabyDave · · Score: 5, Funny

      You can find articles about the fellow by looking at the top Google hits for "moron," "fucktard," and "what the hell were you thinking?"

      He works for SCO?

  5. That'll teach him a lesson... by LinuxInDallas · · Score: 5, Funny

    Next time, just go straight to the spammers.

  6. Slashdot... by martingunnarsson · · Score: 5, Funny

    That's a real nice website you have here... a shame if anything were to happen to it...

    Isn't this what Slashdot is trying to do? No?

    --
    Martin
  7. Foolish criminal by msgmonkey · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm amazed that this guy thought that google would pay out. If he was clever he would set up a few websites and rake the money in slowly over a length of time. I guess greed got the better of him.

  8. he must have been by squarefish · · Score: 4, Funny
    --
    Creationists are a lot like zombies. Slow, but powerful and numerous. And they all want to eat our brains.
  9. What have we learned? by g0bshiTe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Next time don't go to those you are trying to extort. Just go straight to the competition. I'm sure the spammers would have paid him much more than $100,000 collectively and not turned him in.

    Imagine, he could have licensed his software to the spammers and charged them an annual fee to use it. He could have been the "Microsoft" of the spamming industry.

    --
    I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
    1. Re:What have we learned? by merlin_jim · · Score: 4, Funny

      Imagine, he could have licensed his software to the spammers and charged them an annual fee to use it. He could have been the "Microsoft" of the spamming industry.

      I would like to point out that, due to dangerously unsecure settings on installation of their home software, Microsoft is already the "Microsoft" of the spamming industry...

      Note: WinXP really is better. Win2003 is much better. But if we don't have Microsoft to pick on, just who ARE we gonna pick on?

      --
      I am disrespectful to dirt! Can you see that I am serious?!
  10. Hi. I'm Troy McClure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Hi. I'm Troy McClure. You might remember me from such search-engine fraud films as "The Altavistan Job", "The Great Dogpile Caper", and "Lycos Grifters IV: Electric Boogaloo".

    1. Re:Hi. I'm Troy McClure by ObiWanKenblowme · · Score: 4, Funny

      My favorite was "Dial G for Google"

      --
      Obvious exits are NORTH, SOUTH, and DENNIS.
  11. I think slashdot just found... by ph4s3 · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...a new revenue stream.

    Hi little guy, this is Cmdr.Taco... We're going to link to your site in an article. What? You say you can't handle the traffic? For the low low cost of $699 we can grant you a license to mirror your site on our finely tuned slashdot-proof servers.

  12. stupid... by jwthompson2 · · Score: 5, Funny

    This guy tried to extort the search engine that allows you to find almost anything including almost anybody and he was expecting to not get caught?

    Stupid!

    --
    Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree. -Martin Luther
  13. Would this really bother them? by slavefishy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Apart from being threatened, surely Google have sufficiently intelligent engineers to figure out a solution to this problem?

    No doubt the software would follow a particular pattern, which even in a large amount of data, could possibly be tracked and with regards to things like open proxies, it would surprise me if Google didn't already check for things like that.

  14. Re:It's not fraud by no+haters · · Score: 3, Interesting

    How is falsely inflating banner views and click-throughs not fraud? You are defrauding the company in order that they will pay you for advertising that was never "aired" to the public.

  15. Google uses pop ups? by slash-tard · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I havent seen any, I do use the google tool bar though.

    BTW, I have also devised a program to simulate fake activity. Use any of the windows based graphical macro programs, load google, search, click the ad, save macro, repeat it in a loop. You could do this in multiple VMWare sessions if you wanted to increase your "productivity".

  16. The fine line.... by Kailden · · Score: 4, Funny

    For your Occupation, choose 2 of the following three:

    1) Fun
    2) Well-paying
    3) Legal

    This guy probably was legal up to the point of threatening Google. I guess that the fine line between the criminal mind and normal everyday greed.

    --
    I need a TiVo for my car. Pause live traffic now.
    1. Re:The fine line.... by rev_sanchez · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's all in the marketing. He should have offered it as a "diagnostic tool" for their Ad Words feature and offered them an "exclusive partnership" with this project for $100,000.

      --
      If you didn't come to party don't bother knocking on my door. Prince '1999'
  17. Slashdot - weapon of mass debandwith by Fullmetal+Edward · · Score: 3, Funny

    "Come out with your hard drives up or we'll send in the slashdotters and Shaft!"

    The way of the future... Just wait till Bush catchs on, Cowboy Neal and Taco will be billionairs with an army of geeks on hand...

    TO THE SLASHDOT MOBILE!

    --
    --- [Insert intresting Sig here]
  18. Re:It's not fraud by Moonpie+Madness · · Score: 2, Informative

    He didnt click on banners and is not charges with doing so. He is charged with threatening to harm their ability to make money, the means to which are clearly wrong. He said 'gimme some money, or i release a nefarious program' that request is the crime, not the actions themselves.

  19. Psst ... /. by g0bshiTe · · Score: 5, Funny

    I figured out and wrote a perl script to increase my karma. Give me $1200 worth of ThinkGeek stuff, or I'll post it in the forums!!!!

    --
    I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
  20. Interesting by SirLantos · · Score: 5, Funny

    A series of funny quotes come to mind: 'You want I should break your links?' 'Mario, I need you to 404 this site.' 'I will ping flood you so fast, you wont know what hit you.' 'I host your site. You've never google me. You dont visit my page. And now you want me to bring down this site. What am I supposed to think?' 'Johhny, I swear, I'll get you your page hits. I just need some more time.'

    --
    The flying hamster of DOOM rains coconuts on your pitiful city.
  21. Or, putting that in terms we can all understand... by TrekkieGod · · Score: 4, Funny
    1. Find random website
    2. E-mail admin, and threaten to bring site down by posting story on slashdot
    3. ???
    4. Profit!!!

    Very similar to the google case, I think step 4 only applies to the lawyers

    --

    Warning: Opinions known to be heavily biased.

  22. What a daft bugger. by ackthpt · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Spammers don't need programs like that. People who have ads on their web pages and want to generate hits on the ads would want that.

    Spammers, on the other hand, have now moved onto blogs lately. Fred Rodriguez, a rider Emeryville, CA, for italian team Aqua e Sapone has spams for the usual penis enlargment, diet pills, cheap computer eqz, etc. on his guest book. Spammers got no shame, just like this fool.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  23. sloppy work by The+Clockwork+Troll · · Score: 5, Funny

    He was very easy to track down. Apparently, a red flag gets raised at Google whenever anyone actually clicks on those ads. So, they eliminated the guy who needed ink jet cartridges and sent the police in.

    --

    There are no karma whores, only moderation johns
  24. Advertising on WebPages is a Joke by stecoop · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Every SlashDotter should click on every advertisement that you see on Slashdot. Slashodot will get paid and the advertisers will get a heavy bill - everyone wins.

    That would be a nice technology to add to Mozilla 1.x where it automatically hides the advertisement and treats it like a click through where advertisers get tired of paying out.

    1. Re:Advertising on WebPages is a Joke by jasonjacks0n · · Score: 3, Interesting
      That would be a nice technology to add to Mozilla 1.x where it automatically hides the advertisement and treats it like a click through where advertisers get tired of paying out.

      Actually, I've seriously considered writing a plugin along those lines.

      My idea is more of a "reward" thing .. basically, I don't particularly want to be bothered by ads, but it would be nice if I could click on a toolbar button called something like "reward 'em" and moz would do a virtual click on every ad on the page, but loading the results into a hidden window (or, in other words, retrieve the content but never display it). Maybe moz could even do it automatically (optionally of course) .. I have a fast connection and mostly wouldn't even notice the difference.

      That way I can help ensure that my favorite sites have a revenue stream .. think of it as a guerilla micro-payment scheme.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank.
    2. Re:Advertising on WebPages is a Joke by trippccn · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Albeit a great idea, in the end this would actually hurt the /.'s of the world because advertisers would find that their advertising dollars are less and less effective, pulling their budgets. Combine that idea with this:

      When you want to buy something, say a w00t shirt from thinkgeek, instead of going straight to thinkgeek, if the user had a small search application that would instantly pull up the thinkgeek banner ad from one of their favorite publishing sites and auto-clicked on it, both the click AND the sale would be attributed to /.

  25. Story Full of Errors? by 0x0d0a · · Score: 2, Informative

    I've yet to see Web-based advertising of Google, much less pop-up advertising. This makes me think that the story is simply wrong, and reversed the roles.

    * Google does not provide "pop-up ads". They provide text-based ads.

    * Google does not pay website owners for AdWords. The owners pay Google to for advertising space on Google.

    This is my 5000th post.

    1. Re:Story Full of Errors? by Exodious · · Score: 3, Informative

      * Google does not pay website owners for AdWords. The owners pay Google to for advertising space on Google.
      Not true. You can use their adsense program. I think /. uses it sometimes as well.
      http://www.google.com/services/ http://www.google.com/adsense

    2. Re:Story Full of Errors? by nsingapu · · Score: 4, Informative

      Google does not pay website owners for AdWords. The owners pay Google to for advertising space on Google.

      Google does pay website owners for displaying adwords, in its adsense program.

      The problem with the guys attempted extortion is that google charges advertisers more then it pays out on the adds, and as such this guys program, if sucessful, still makes google a buck. That said the amount advertisers pay on adds is determined by a number of criteria such as CTR (which is why googles adds are generally of good quality; better, more relevant, and therefore more clickable adds can be put in top positions for less then irrelevant adds) and as such something of this nature could potentially really screw up advertising related statistics and revenue for google.

  26. robots as websurfers by nuffle · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This brings up some other related concerns about having robots browse pages, even when the intent is not malicious.

    Some ads on websites are sold 'per-view' and not 'per-click', but if a web-crawling robot hits it, should it count as a view? Are the authors of these bots stealing from the advertiser?

    A while ago I wrote a bot that posts to slashdot. He even had decent Karma for a while, before getting a bit confused. In any case, my bot would usually post some links in his comments, which could have the effect of altering the target's page ranking on Google (this was not his purpose though). Am I somehow culpable for cheating Google?

    Anyway, the point is that I think robots should have some limited rights to view pages and do human-like behavior on the net.

    1. Re:robots as websurfers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      A while ago I wrote a bot that posts to slashdot.

      From the looks of things, you're not alone in that.

    2. Re:robots as websurfers by man_ls · · Score: 3, Insightful

      skipping commercials in PVR'd tv: correct

      using a spider to index webpages: correct

      downloading a Britney Spears MP3: incorrect

      but 2 out of 3 isn't bad I suppose......

    3. Re:robots as websurfers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Anonymous Coward,
      Why do you say, you're not alone in that?

  27. Anyone remember AllAdvantage? by cr@ckwhore · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Anyone remember the company AllAdvantage (was that really the name?) that paid users to click on ads during the dotcom boom? I remember almost everyone was into it ... people were making hundreds, even thousands of dollers per month.

    Of course, none of the ad traffic was legitimate! There were tons and tons of scripts and programs that would click the ads for you ... set it up to run all night, go to sleep, wake up rich in the morning. That's probably why the thing was so popular!

    I remember the comany would implement anti-cheat methods every couple of weeks, even to the point of tracking mouse movements ... the idea being that if the mouse wasn't moving, but clicks were coming in, then it was a cheat.

    Ok, well... as always, cheaters take things to the next level. The ultimate cheat was one that surfed the web from a pre-determined list of web sites, while randomly moving the mouse cursor around the screen, and clicking every couple of seconds. Worked like a charm!

    No more AllAdvantage.

    Google has more sophisticated technology than AllAdvantage though... its almost impossible to cheat google. Even if this dumb-ass really did write a program to click ads on his own sites, google would catch that. There's AdSense partners getting canned every day for suspicion of cheating, when sometimes it's only as simple as an innocent erroneous click on their own ads. It happens... check the adsense forums. I doubt this guy would have been able to execute much of his plan successfully.

    --
    Skiers and Riders -- http://www.snowjournal.com
    1. Re:Anyone remember AllAdvantage? by CGP314 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Wow, I forgot all about AllAdvantage. I still have an old website on fortunecity.com plugging that service. (I sadly want to gain control of that site again, but I forgot my username/password)

      As I remember it, you didn't get paid for clicking on the ads, AllAdvantage displayed a banner ad on the bottom of your computer and paid you to `look' at it. But all it really kept track of was if the mouse was moving.

      I had a friend send me a script to move the mouse around while I slept, but AA cought on to that pretty quickly.

      So, I just tied my mouse to a rotating fan. Sometimes the simplest solution is the best.


      -Colin

  28. Was he also wearing. . . by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 4, Funny


    a pair of those blinking Nikes while running away from the cops?


    -FL

  29. this never would've happened... by irokie · · Score: 5, Funny

    this never would've happened if they didn't offer google in "hacker"

    --
    and if you see me strut, remind me of what left this outlaw torn...
  30. Am I missing something here? by Afty0r · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Or is there no incentive for a spammer to use this? Who was this guy going to sell the software to, it has no value except to a person who specificaly wants to devlue Googles adspace.

  31. Prior art! by AndroidCat · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I received spam that tried to generate fake click-throughs a couple years ago. I could dig out a copy of the LART I sent with the code used to the company that was being defrauded by the fakes. (I'm sure they were real impressed with the spammer.) Nothing new here.

    Or is this like the "on the Internet" patents? "I have a spam scam that really works--on Google!"

    --
    One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
  32. Idiots by screwballicus · · Score: 2, Funny

    If only the world's more malicious traders in contraband goods would use this method.

    "See, I have this cache of weapons in my house, and I'll sell them off to criminals at some point if you don't give me the money!"

    "Wait...SWAT Team? What SWAT Team?"

    "Outside my house?"

  33. Paddy Power. by Kiffer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A harbinger of organized crime to come? That's a real nice website you have here... a shame if anything were to happen to it..."

    Allready happened in Ireland with Paddy Power

    http://www.business.com/directory/media_and_ente rt ainment/amusement_and_family_entertainment/paddy_p ower_plc/news/
    and
    http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD /europe/02/23/online. hackers/

    or just google for Paddy Power and hackers

  34. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  35. No results, but five advert boxes by blorg · · Score: 5, Informative

    Ironically, while that exact search does actually come up with 0 results, there are 5 'sponsored links' offering 'Secrets behind AdWords', 'Create AdWords Cash' and so on...

  36. I did the same thing.... by DeionXxX · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I uhhh... made the same program last year in January or so at a client's request. I was skeptical that I could defraud Google's AdWords, but I ended up being successful. Out of respect, I never gave the client's his program even though it worked and sent it over to Google and told them about their vulnerability.

    Defrauding Google, is like defrauding a family member or something...

    I'm glad this ass got caught.

    -- D3X

  37. Re:It's still not fraud by Moonpie+Madness · · Score: 2, Interesting

    i understand what you are saying, but i still disagree. the clicks themselves are part of the problem. If I were stalking a girl, my talking to her on the phone would be illegal speech invirtue of what they were a part of. obviously speaking to others is not a crime, though when it is part of a pattern of harassment or extortion each action is a crime. and it is fraud, it is an attempt to impersonate a clickthrough human when in fact its a bot. This may not seem like much, but it is fraud in the literal sense

  38. Ha ha, but AdWords among most effective ads on net by blorg · · Score: 3, Informative

    If I'm actually looking to buy something, and I see an ad that is *relevant*, sure I'll click on it. We advertise heavily on AdWords ourselves and get a phenomenal amount of traffic on them, with click-throughs over 25% on certain keyword combinations.

  39. Re:Um,,, by Ill_Omen · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The problem is that this guy's (alleged) program's sole purpose was to commit fraud.

    To continue your gasoline example, it'd be like developing a method to fool the 'pay-at-the-pump' system into giving you gas without actually charging your credit card, and then telling the gas station that if they don't give you $100,000, you'll publish the program in the USA Today(tm).

  40. Organized crime is already in on it by Len · · Score: 4, Informative
    A harbinger of organized crime to come? That's a real nice website you have here... a shame if anything were to happen to it...
    This has been going on for a while. Just last week, for instance, some bookie sites in the UK were DoS'd and then received demands for money.
  41. Re:Psst ... /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    I figured out and wrote a perl script to increase my karma. Give me $1200 worth of ThinkGeek stuff, or I'll post it in the forums!!!!

    Awww, crap, you too? That's common knowledge:
    num=int(rnd(0)*5)
    select num
    MSG="Microsoft sucks."
    MSG="Linux rocks!"
    MSG="MPAA is bad."
    MSG="RIAA is evil."
    MSG="This is a repost. Duh!"
    end select

    printf $MSG

  42. My guessing the specs by Felinoid · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Google dosen't just have text link adds on Googles website. They also have ads on OTHER peoples websites and pay those websites for that.

    With out banner adds or pop ups (Thwap the guy who called Google ads POP UPS) you'll need some software on your server to make this work.

    Im guessing this guy hacked this software so he can send bad any data he wants and is expecting Google to act like Microsoft and pay to keep it quiet.

    He picked the wrong target. Find a defect in Windows.. a nasty one.. and bribe Microsoft to stay quiet. They appear all fine with the extrotion scams and all about security by obscurity.
    (I'm joking BTW.. Try that and Microsoft will thump you something nasty AND clame your defect is fraudulent)

    --
    I don't actually exist.
  43. Ok, I know this is nit-picky... by mystery_bowler · · Score: 2, Informative

    ...but...

    extortion != organized crime

    This is one programmer acting alone (and stupidly). Organized crime requires an organization. If the programmer had been hired by someone else who had the idea to extort Google but not the technical know-how, this would be organized crime.

    --

    My sigs always suck.
  44. Re:Wacky myths by goatan · · Score: 2, Informative
    Check out when the car seat-belt was introduced. Exactly when the patent expired! It was offered to all car manufacturers to save lives - exactly none of them touched it, untill the patent expired and they did not have to pay for it

    Untrue As the following timline shows there were seat belts of diffrent types on cars before and after the patent was issued

    1930's Several U.S. physicians equip their own cars with lap belts and begin urging manufacturers to provide them in all new cars

    1954 Sports Car Club of America requires competing drivers to wear lap belts

    1955 Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) appoints Motor Vehicle Seat Belt Committee

    1956 Volvo markets 2-point cross-chest diagonal belt as accessory For and Chrysler offer lap belts in front as option on some models Ford begins 2-year ad campaign based on safety, focusing heavily on belts

    1957 Volvo provides anchors for 2-point diagonal belts in front

    1958 Nils Bohlin, a design engineer with Volvo in Sweden, patents the "Basics of Proper Restraint Systems for Car Occupants," better known as a three-point safey belt. The device comprises two straps, a lap strap and shoulder strap. ** Volvo provides anchors for 2-point diagonal belts in rear

    1959 Volvo introduces 3-point belt in front as standard, in Sweden

    1961 SAE issues standard for U.S. seat belts (J4) Standards Association of Australia issues standard for "safety belts and harness assemblies"

    1962 U.S. manufacturers provide seat belt anchors in front outboard as standard

    1963 Volvo introduces 3-point belt in front as standard, in USA SAE issues revised standard (J4a)

    1964 Most U.S. manufactures provide lap belts at front outboard seat positions Victoria and South Australia require seat belt anchorages at front outboard positions in new cars (either 2- or 3-point permitted)

    1965 U.S. Commerce Dept. issues first seat belt standard (adopted SAE standard) SAE issues revised standard (J4c) Some U.S. manufacturers provide automatic locking retractors (ALRs) in front seat belts

    1966 Swedish regulations prohibit 2-point cross-chest diagonal belt at seats next to a door, and Y-type of 3-point belt altogether U.S. Commerce Dept. issues revised seat belt standard (SAE j4c) Sports Car Club of America requires competing drivers to wear a shoulder harness as well as a lap belt (perhaps 1967, according to ref. 131)

    1967 Society of Automotive Engineers study at UCLA leads to calls for two-point seat belts, highback seats and other occupant protection strategies for school buses. Volvo introduces 3-point belt in rear as standard, certain markets Great Britain requires 3-points in front outboard positions Australian standard for belt anchorages issued South Australia requires seat belts (lap belts OK) at front outboard positions

    1968 Volvo provides emergency locking retractors (ELRs) as standard in front, in Sweden Great Britain requires retrofit of 3-point belts in front in MY 65 and newer cars Many U.S. cars this MY provide ELRs. 3 point harness is now legislation in the US.

    1969 Sweden requires 3-point belts of approved type in front seats. Volvo provides 3-point belt in rear as standard, all markets Mercedes-Benz adds 3-point belt in rear outboard seats as standard, all markets Japan requires seat belts, front and rear Australia requires 3-point belts, front outboard seats, all cars registered since 1965

    1970 Sweden requires belts in rear (diagonal and static allowed; lap-only not approved) Victoria, Australia requires 3-point belts, front and rear and mandates use, front and rear

    1971 Volvo provides ELRs as standard in rear, all markets NHTSA amends FMVSS 208 to require passive restraints in front, to be effective

    1973 New South Wales requires use of seat belts

    1972 Volvo introduces adjustable B-post anchor point (not standa

    --
    Saying Apple is better than MS is like saying Botulism is better than rabies.

  45. Tangent: "software program" by mwood · · Score: 2, Funny

    I always wonder when I see that seemingly redundant expression. I mean, what would a hardware program look like?

    Okay, *theoretically* there could be a need to distinguish a computer program from, say, a TV program or a spending program or a concert program, but really, how likely is it that a computer programmer is threatening an information service company with information about who's playing second violin tonight?

  46. Re:This is better done by people by LetterJ · · Score: 2, Informative

    A buck or 2? You should check out what they're paying in categories like home mortgages. In lots of those categories, the rates are closer to $10-15 PER CLICK. In most categories of pay-per-click engines, it's really difficult to stay under $0.50 or even a dollar.

  47. Re:Pop-up's? -- Maybe they were confused by fuzzybunny · · Score: 2, Informative

    Google doesn't, and this is outside the scope of this article, but I've seen phony pop-ups delivered by quite a few scam sites. They'll use the (now "fixed") IE bug of URL forgery (create a link using http://www.google.com%01%00@badsite.com and IE only ses http://www.google.com), have badsite.com be nothing but a pass-through redirect to google.com with a few web bugs and stuff, and pop up an ad purporting to originate with google.)

    You get this quite a lot with amazon and paypal among others, both for people phishing for account details, and for unscrupulous advertisers trying to present their 'product' as something originating with the legitimate site that loads in the background.

    Microsoft issued a patch which flat-out prohibits use of '@' in http URLs without some registry changes. Maybe the authors just got their facts mixed a bit.

    --
    Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage
  48. Similar trick... by D.+Book · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Most websites with ads these days use third-party ad networks such as ValueClick. And as someone who runs such a site I've always been worried about the possibility of this one: if some kiddie dislikes me or my website for whatever reason, it's child's play to starve it of ad revenue. Just point your proxies my site's ads and make them click. The ad network will see the click-through ratio skyrocket, and instantly conclude I'm attemtping to defraud them. My account gets suspended. The site is starved of ad revenue, and possibly blacklisted so I can't just move to another network.

    For years I've worried about this more than I do about DDoS attacks, wondering how long it would be before the kiddies take to this kind of attack. So far they haven't.

  49. Re:Who clicks on those insipid ads anyway? by PetWolverine · · Score: 2

    I like the Carlin quote, but Google's ads are not the typical annoying pop-ups--they're text-only, unobtrusive, clearly separated from non-paid search results, and as a consequence of these things, they're some of the most effective ads left on the 'net. That's in terms of click-throughs, conversions into sales for the advertiser, and revenue for Google. Seeing as how the Internet briefly thrived on advertising commissions until the ads became so ineffective that nobody would pay for them, any method that promises to return the value to online advertising holds the potential to bring back the .com boom in a more sustainable (and sensible) way. Google does this by seeing the value that ads can provide to the advertisee; sometimes, especially when looking for a place to buy something, Google's paid results are more relevant than the normal PageRank-based ones. Anything that threatens Google's ability to deliver good value both for the advertiser's money and the customer's time threatens, at least in principle, all that this new model promises for the Internet economy.

    In practice, of course, I'm sure Google's brilliant engineers can find a workaround and start another technology race with the spammers. Whether or not they stay ahead, they'll surely keep their collective head above water--or we'll see a new business model arise out of Google's ashes, and eventually one of these models will just have to work.

    --
    I found the meaning of life the other day, but I had write-only access.
  50. 25%, I shit you not by blorg · · Score: 3, Informative

    That 25% is only on a few very specific search phrases, but we honestly do get that high on those phrases. The reason is that for those phrases we are more relevant than the actual search results *in our geographic area*.

    We get 10%+ click-through on the most completely generic term for the site. It could possibly be higher, but we also rank first in the normal search results for that term, if you limit your search to one particular country or use the country name as part of the search. Being able to limit AdWords to individual countries is one of the great things about Google - Overture isn't half as good in this regard.

    Our *average* click-through over all phrases is much lower, at 3%, largely because with a lot of the other product words we use, people *would* be just searching for information on the product, rather than with a view to purchase. We could raise the click-through by only displaying ad if the search term included words such as 'buy', 'purchase', etc. but 3% is well above Google's cut-off and we aren't paying for the extra impressions, only the clicks, so this suits us fine. We still rank first on most of these search terms (e.g. competing AdWords are seen as less relevant).

  51. Re:The future of advertisement... by hiryuu · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Maybe you'll have to verify your humanity any time you want to search for something.

    Or maybe advertisers will quit trying to quantify per-view or per-link and just pay (or be charged) a flat fee for a time-period run, something more similar to how things work on TV and radio. Rather than making an ad on the web accountable in ways that no other media is required, why not just assume it's getting you market-awareness and presence?

    --
    Karma: Excellent, but still won't get you laid.
  52. Only with Google by KalvinB · · Score: 3, Interesting

    was I able to make a little over $5 with only 3 clicks on the ads I'm displaying. I used Commission Junction for about a year and racked in 70,000+ impressions with about 7000 click thrus. Didn't make a penny. That's why I went to a subscription based web-site. After a review not too long ago I decided to cut down the number of sections that require a pass. Those major sections that don't require a pass now have Google Ads.

    The rate variance is why Google doesn't tell you how much a click is worth. It varies from a few cents to a few dollars and possibly more depending on the ad. I run a programming site so I get some expensive programming ads.

    Google is being incredibly generous with their AdSense program and I would hope Google would be able to find a way to take out the idiots who try to abuse it rather than cripple the program.

    At the start all ad programs paid decently for click-thrus but morons abused it and morons ran the programs so they couldn't deal with it. Or they simply decided they could make more money if they went pay per sale since the advertisers would get the same amount (or more since web-sites got desperite and would flood visiters) of exposure for a lot less money.

    It's an absolutly retarded program from a publisher's view. You basically have to sell the ad. You have to dedicate the page the ad is on to the ad so that people will buy what the ad is selling. The standard is about a 1.0% click-thru rate. And of those you now have a fraction of a percent that will compulsive buy. I had one text ad with Commission Junction that did a 10% click thru rate. But I would only get paid if someone bought the book right then. Nobody did so I never got paid. But the seller got lots of free publicity.

    One major game development web-site I know has basically signed up for every ad program on the planet and then ran it through their custom script that selects which program to display an ad from to the visitor. I noticed they have Google Adsense worked into the mix as well. I have to wonder how much that stupid monkey and other flashing banners are worth that they don't just stick with Google and dump the rest of the ad systems.

    Ben

  53. Not too original by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Posting anonymously because I should :)

    Anyone remember those annoying click competitions that were popular last year? Someone sends you a link, you click on it, and you added one thug to thier gang or one prostitute to thier harem or something. The strongest gang/pimp/whatever at the end of the month wins a ps2 or other prize. Well, being the perl monk I am, I decided to help a friend of mine win himself a ps2.

    First step was to get a list of proxies. Not too hard there. I remember 10-15 websites that listed anywhere from 100 to 2000 open web proxies each. I wrote a quick perl script to scrape the page for the host and port (was a nice script, even worked inside tables) and write them to a file. I has a second script that actually tested those proxies. I ended up with around 5000 working proxy servers.

    The next step was to write a script to attach to the proxy, click the link, follow the redirect, load all images, and verify that everything worked. I love pthreads :)

    Every day I'd run that script and he'd get another 5k thugs. He actually won 3 months in a row. I think he got a ps2, GBA, and a $200 amazon.com gift certificate (which he promptly gave to yours truly :).

    Anyway, the point of this is that its not too tough to use proxies to defraud pay-per-click stuff. You can use it to your benefit to earn yourself some fradulent $. You can use it to your benefit to cost your competitors $ (via pay-per-click adwords). Or you can use it to vote in online polls (Ever wonder how those votes on MTV change drasticaly in the last few minutes? Thank Larry Wall!)

  54. Did he really expect them to pay? by Rich+Klein · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How could the guy expect Google to pay him not to run his program if he couldn't guarantee that someone else wouldn't come up with a similar program? Forget law and morals; he had nothing useful to sell to Google. Their money would be better spent finding and fixing any security holes.

    --
    -Rich
  55. so, let me get this straight... by The+Lynxpro · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...when an individual tries to extort Google, the U.S. Secret Service gets involved. Yet when a *business* (cough cough) like SCO tries to do the same thing, its board of directors is free to do as they please. Yep, that's justice.

    --
    "Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
  56. Extortion is alive and well online... by leviramsey · · Score: 2, Informative

    There's a few gangs based in Eastern Europe that are using Windows machines infected with viruses/worms to DDoS gambling sites unless $5,000/month in protection money is paid up.

    And let's not forget SCO...

  57. TCP Spoofing in a nutshell by 0x0d0a · · Score: 2, Informative

    It amazes me the number of people that talk about IP spoofing. All their wild theories can be shot down by asking "What happens when you send out thatfirst packet and it comes back to confirm it?"

    TCP spoofing is quite possible. It's just difficult, and has become progressively more difficult.

    Say we have just the idea of a basic handshake (without worrying about the way TCP works for a moment). Host A sends a packet to Host C purporting to come from Host B. Host C sends a packet to Host B saying "you really want to open this connection?". Host A waits a short period of time, then sends another packet to Host C claiming to be from Host B saying "yup, open it". Handshake completed.

    Now, in TCP world, there are a couple of complications. First, Host B is supposed to respond back when it gets the "do you want to open this packet" question from Host C with a "Nope, blow away the connection" response. So, just for starters, Host B has to be unresponsive. That means that it might be a good idea for Host C to compromise a bunch of hosts and flood Host B starting sometime before sending that first forged packet to Host A. This bumps Host B's packet loss rate up to, say, 90%. That means that there's an awfully good chance that the "Do you want to connect" message never gets through to B...all C has is the forged response from A, so it considers the response valid and opens the connection.

    Then we have sequence numbers. TCP uses sequence numbers to ensure that packets don't get lost or out of order. A's bogus response to C has to have a sequence number based on the number that A included in its "do you want to connect" message to B. The traditional way to get around this was to have C try to open a (non-forged) connection to A. A's response contains a sequence number. C ignores this response, and when A sends out its first packet to B, as long as nobody else has opened any connections in the interim, it uses a starting sequence number that is, say, one greater than the previous starting sequence number. At least, there is some form of correlation that C can use to determine the sequence number being sent to B that will allow it to forge a packet with a valid sequence number.

    Most modern machines, to avoid exactly this sort of attack, generate an "unpredictable" number. However, since entropy (I guess you'd call entropy "stored unpredictability" -- data based entirely on unpredictable events from outside the computer's operating environment) comes in at a pretty limited rate in a typical machine, machines tend to just mangle some data in a hard-to-predict manner and use it to derive a starting sequence number for the next connection. Ideally, this sequence number cannot be predicted by host A -- in reality, it's possible that host A might manage to do so, if controlled by someone that's figured out a way to predict the output of the algorithm being used by host C.

    If the A and C machines are both on a fast network (a business or university, say), it might even be possible to forge a connection through brute-force guessing of the next sequence number.

    So, spoofing a TCP connection is difficult, but feasible. TCP is definitely not considered to be secure as a cryptographer would consider something to be secure.

    So it's a good move to avoid using IP-based authentication.