Slashdot Mirror
New Documents Shed Light on Microsoft's Tactics
Tigen writes "As the NY Times reports, even as MS prepares to face penalties from the European Union, testimony during the second week of trial in the consumer class-action lawsuit in Minnesota has revealed some embarrassing internal documents from Microsoft which were not disclosed in the 1997 federal antitrust lawsuit. Items include a 1990 letter from Bill Gates to Andy Grove, and Microsoft's illegal tactics against the Go Corporation, a Silicon Valley startup."
"Armed forces abroad are of little value unless there is prudent counsel at home" - Cicero
If GO Penpoint software was open-sourced 14 years ago... as an attempt to counter Windows H agression...
I wonder what would the landscape of mobile computing be like today?
Hey, that's my password you are typing
If this is not anti-competitive, then what is?
Microsoft violated a signed secrecy agreement with Go and showed that Microsoft possessed technical documents from Go that it should not have had access to.
Industrial Espionage.
Microsoft violated nondisclosure agreements with Go, and then used that information to build PenWindows, a competitor to Go's PenPoint operating system.
GO has loyalty rights for PenWindows. GO should sue PenWindows licensee's individually. This is what Microsoft is trying to do to Linux users through SCO. GO has more legal grounds to stand on that SCO.
Shortly after the letter was written, Intel reduced its planned investment in Go from $10 million to $2 million
Intel was held to ransom, and they paid it.
The advice read in part that the focus should be shifted from "killing the competitor" to "providing a better solution to the customer's problems."
So they did believe in Killing Competition. A tiger never changes its stripes.
I think some of these allegations could ammount to criminal offences. I do hope Mr. Gates does a time in a cell with No Windows
Moderate this comment
Negative: Offtopic Flamebait Troll Redundant
Positive: Insightful Interesting Informative Funny
Nothing to see here
Microsoft would not leak so many embarrassing documents if they never wrote anything down. But, I hear you say, surely people will just record what they say and leak the recordings. Well, not if they conduct all their business in mime. So that is my suggestion. Microsoft should do everything by mime.
-
apt-get install deathstar && deathstar alderaan && echo "You're far too trusting"
It's very interesting that as a consequence of Microsoft's domination of the market, people give you very weird looks when you tell them you don't use windows. Then they calm down, an idea hits them, and they ask, "Oh, so you use Mac, then?" The weird look, however, wrests itself upward from its grave where the pallbearers were finally resting with (they thought) the satisfaction of a job well done, and climbs back on to the poor user's face when you're forced to disillusion them.
Using something other than windows is almost a stigma in some circles (circles the average slashdotter has little contact with, and avoids as much as possible), and it's the fact that most people only know and (ha!) understand how to use one OS that leads to this sorry state of affairs. A consuming fear of new ideas leads to stagnation, not innovation, and this fear is exactly what the Microsoft monopoly has led us into.
Companies are always free to develop their own embedded OS; some do. Back then the hardware wasn't available. So quit the microsoft bashing.
You seem to have forgoten what Wintel is...
OS writers are very much in a co-dependant relationship with the chip makers... the direction that the OS writers take their software and the direction the chip makers take their chips have to be in sync because one will not work without the other.
Thus, research into chip design was up until recently funneled towards keeping up with the Moore's Law pace of faster and faster clock speeds. Research into creating a chip that could run on low power just wasn't done because there wasn't much of a market for it.
In order to justify writing an OS for a handheld, you need to know what chip you're going to be running on. In order to build a chip geared for handheld use, you need to be sure somebody's actually going to make handhelds.... it's a classic catch 22, and Microsoft appears to have blocked the Go-Motorola partnership that would have made those advances a decade or so before they actually happened.
It is too bad that the Go Penpoint OS never made it. In my opinion it was a very nice system and well designed. The Apple Newton came close, but not quite.
I read the book "The Power of Penpoint"
by Robert Carr, Dan Shafer but never had one of their computers myself (they are pretty rare in Europe). I nearly bought one on ebay recently though.
Some images: http://www.ojisan.com/penpoint/index.shtml
A decision was made, but a lot of people believe that decision was just so much tepid crap. Courts have been overturned in the past; perhaps if enough new evidence comes to light, the case can be reopened.
Yes, it does serve a purpose. It serves to dig up more facts and evidence should someone in the judiciary ever get wise and reevaluate that case.
Even if the trial never reopens, the Court of Public Opinion is always open. The more people learn what kinds of jiggery-pokery Microsoft has been up to, the more likely Microsoft will gets its just desserts sooner or later, and the less likely anyone else will ever pull such stunts again.
Honestly. I'm trying to figure out your attitude. "Microsoft did it, they got away with it, and that's good enough for me!" Are you always this doggedly complacent?
Need something burned down in a big hurry? Then come on down to the Flamebait Market, for all your pyromaniac needs!
You cannot truly appreciate Dilbert until you read it in the original Klingon.
Recently overheard somewhere at One Microsoft Way:
What's this: "New Documents Shed Light on Microsoft's Tactics" ?!
I thought I told you guys to SHRED those documents, nod SHED them!
I hear there's rumors on the Slashdots
Please explain how pocket, portable computing would have been possible even ten years ago.
What about the Newton, circa 1993?
The opposite of progress is congress
Well, I've tried telling my Windows support leaches that I don't remember much about Windows any more, but it doesn't seem to help. They go on and on anyway about all the things they have already tried and still they get this message on start-up that doesn't stay up long enough for them to read but tells them that something is missing.
I suppose I COULD give them outright bogus advice... "Try deleting some of your registry keys. Too many of those can cause problems like that." But then, that wouldn't be very nice would it? On the other hand, once their system was totally toast maybe they'd be more inclined to give a true manly operating system a try.
"Dat girly-man operating system should be a ting of de past" - Ahnuld
Please explain how pocket, portable computing would have been possible even ten years ago.
:-(
While Americans might think that Palm (or Apple/Newton) invented pocket computing, I suggest you take a look at Psion. This company made several successful pocket computers more than ten years ago. They released the Psio series 3 in 1991. In the later models they managed to include word-processors, spread-sheets, graphical software, games, web browsers, in a tiny ROM. The computers were truly innovative.
Sadly, they recently decided to get rid of their innovative technology (Symbian) and focus on WinCE devices instead. No more innovation from Psion. From the leading edge to a me-too M$ slave.
)9TSS
Not 75Mhz, but 30Mhz would have been easily possible: 10 years ago, the 30Mhz version of the ARM6/7 was available (and shipping in production hardware). Designed for low power consumption and low cost, not much different from the ARM processors we see in portable devices today, really. The Apple Newton was shipping too, and it had an operating system that would not have looked out of place in modern hardware. Plus the original Palm Pilot was shipping, and the OS there hasn't changed much in that time.
As the ARM was shipping in hardware in those days, a full set of support hardware and software was available, Digital was licensing the technology in order to develop the StrongARM (1995/6 for the 200Mhz version IIRC - got a Palm on my desk that's powered by one of those). ARM didn't have quite the same profile in embedded systems markets in those days, but they were well aware of the potential of their CPU: the ARM6 was the first CPU they specifically designed for embedded applications.
So no, the hardware was *NOT* the limiting factor. The main limiting factor was the will to make the devices, especially as the (ARM6 powered) Newton was not exactly setting the world on fire.
See Here for example, discussing the ARM6 core - in 1991!
I bet that calculator is powered by an ARM7/8. A direct descendant of a processor available in quantity 10 years ago, not that much faster, and it wasn't the only one around.
UK company called Psion had portable computing, including word processing, scheduler, database and a programming language with a keyboard you could actually type on in the early 1990s (Psion3 in 1991). They used Flashdisks for portable storage and you could even get modems for them to fax with and, if you connected them to a PC/MAC there were printer drivers to allow the Psion to print and just use the PC as a spooler. I used to use terminal softwatre on my Amiga to communicate and I could swap files between the Psion and my Miggy
t m
This device was pocket sized, heavy but not as bad as the Jornada 620/720 and used two "AA" batteries with a watch battery for backup.
History of Psion here
http://3lib.ukonline.co.uk/historyofpsion.h
"I've contended for years that computing in general has been held back by Microsoft, not pushed forward, and this is an example of just how that has been the case."
Same here. Only now I find people don't argue with me so much. While Intel has done a credible job of advancing the hardware, they probably would have done more had they not relied on the nod-nod-wink-wink relationship with Microsoft.
The true agent of change is the hardware, and now software technology moving off-shore. Sadly, the cost of overcoming the Microsoft bottleneck will be America's loss of dominance in computing. Emerging economies have no desire to pay top dollar for a mediocre operating system, and with fabrication of hardware all going on elsewhere the PC is becoming close to a disposable device which means the OS needs to be that way too.
History will lay a large part of the blame at Bill Gate's feet. Having squandered our technology lead for his own personal gains and ego is a distinction he well deserves.
IF it is true then it just goes once again to show how fucking rotten the legal system is. Tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth eh? So will these be grounds for a new case? Wasn't Martha Stewart found guilty of lying to an officer instead of insider dealing? Can they get MS on withholding evidence? Perhaps even going after people who can be jailed? I personally don't believe for a second that this could be accidental (IF of course it is real)
Some posts seem to mention that attempting to create or abuse a monopoly is a felony. Doesn't this mean that MS is a criminal? So how exactly is it still allowed to do business as usual? Companies seem to want all the perks of being treated a real people but none of the bad stuff like oh say being punished for committing crimes.
Oh well at least we can snigger at all the microsoft apologist trying to wriggle out of this one. This must be one of their worst weeks. Embarrising papers, being fined and if you look at groklaw yet more hypocrasy by claiming that the EU has no right to tell it how to behave while MS itself is asking the EU to tell Lindows how to behave.
I almost pity the MS fans. Almost.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Typical MS FUD.
Please explain how YET ANOTHER example of MS using dubious business practices to stiffle competition is not hurting progress.
You alledge that it is not to blame MS for not being able to use AAA batteries 10 years ago, and you are right.
That is however not the issue.
The -issue- is how MS is illegaly extending its monopoly into other markets, and how this IS NOT promoting innovation, if only simply because if your new innovation gets eyeballed by MS, you basically lost.
remember drdos?
remember netscape?
remember stack?
remember Citrix?
remember real? Oh well Ill ask that one in two years.
So why start in the first place? THATS what software devolpers are thinking, and I alledge that this is the reason for the lack of innovation in the past 15 years.
I alledge this is another reason for the dotcom bubble burst. I alledge this is the reason for the general dubious image ICT now has world wide.
And I -know- it has cost many Office Automation specialists lots of lost happiness.
"/Dread"
"All of Microsoft's conduct was designed to acquire and hang on to their monopoly,'' said Eugene Crew, a lawyer at Townsend, Townsend & Crew, based in San Francisco.
Many companies would desire to maintain a monopoly. The problem here is that after so many years of knowing that Microsoft has this attitude, nobody has done anything effective to stop it.
People can complain about the EU being anti-American in its anti-trust case, but personally I feel that the US should have imposed far more restrictions on Microsoft than it has thus far. Microsoft continually gets away with anti-competitive practices, everybody knows this - although some Microsoft apologists vehemently deny/excuse it.
"Consumers were harmed by being deprived of choice. The greatest harm out of the Go story was the suppression of innovation and new technology by Microsoft."
The extent of consumer harm can't really be known. People seem to be relatively happy with Windows. Then again, people just accepted that computers needed regular rebooting after running Windows 95, it just goes to show how most people just accept things without question. I guess we'll never know how far things could have progressed if it wasn't for Microsoft preventing competition by abusing its position.
Consumers are harmed, so are competing businesses.
Look how things are flying now because Microsoft has a bit of competition from Linux/Open Source. Of course, Microsoft can say, "Hey, we're doing this because we love you all, not because we're scared of Linux", but why does Microsoft care now when it obviously didn't give a damn for years (judging by the poor quality of Windows up until now)? If there's no competition then you work at your own pace, and as long as it appears that there's progress, people seem to be satisfied.
Linux/Open Source/Anti Microsoft News
Wow, you are a grade A prick. I tell you what, why not call up my parents and tell them they are "riffraff" and don't belong on the Internet.
In the end you'd be huriting yourself, and I'll tell you why:
Without the riffraff you hate:
You wouldn't be able to afford broadband Internet access, becase common DSL/Cable technology wouldn't be cost justifiable. Your only option would be costly ISDN or a fractional T1
All computer hardware would still be expensive, niche-ish, mostly proprietary and stagnant because of a lack of high-demand, high-profit incentives. Think IBM's MCA architecture as the baseline for what to expect from every manufacturer.
Thousands, if not millions of excellent paying, very rewarding positions in software development, hardware development, IT, and computer related industries would be no more. Entry level positions would be no more.
You and everyone else would still have to pay a graphic designer $100/hr to design a simple brouchure, business card, letterheard, or form. And don't forget expensive multi-color printing costs for virtually anything not able to be photographed.
Online multi-player gaming, high-quality games, and amazing simulations would be gone, thanks again to low demand and crazy high cost-per-unit ratios.
That's just a taste. To all the whiny "joe6pack" hating asshole nerds out there -- try to remember who subsidizes your low-cost, commodity hardware, low-latency high-speed connections, and increased social status. If Sun, or IBM, or other early players had their way the "average" PC would still cost $3500, require expensive manuals and training to operate, be based on closed proprietary hardware requiring expensive licensing to develop software or add-ons for and be out of the reach of the "joe6packs" out there.
At times I wonder if people have become so desensitized to people in positions of power lying to them that they no longer care. People have to accept wrong behaviour from politicians, businessmen, the media and everybody else. It does not matter if George Bush lies, or Bill Gates bullies his way through or Wall Street analysts pump up a stock - this type of behaviour does not shock or surprise - it is expected of them.
Their innovation continues to exist in Symbian Devices.
:)
I own a SonyEricsson P800 UIQ based Mobile Phone. Based on the Symbian 7.0 platform, you can still see the Psion/Epoc influence underneath.
The result, a sold stable computing platform, which arguebly crashes FAR less than equivelent MS Smartphones. (this is from personal experience amongst me and my collegues)
A MultiTasking/Multithreading operating system that is easy enough to use (MAC/Palm style), yet DOES allow you access the filesystem (C drive, ddrive, etc), and other system details via freely downloadable software shoudl you wish to tinker.
Its Handwritign recognition is exemplar, and far better and more "user friendly" than Palm's old Graffiti system which was very good for what it was.
I use it as an Ogg player (who needs an MP3 player, its sound quality is excellent), a PDA (it synchs with Outlook contacts/mail/tasks/diary/notes, and has dynamic contact spaces (it dynamically adds new fields even when they are not provided in the main set of fields, try that with palm its its infuriating 5 max fields for numbers/fax/email/web and one address field)
For those not wishing to submit to Outlook, it also has excellent vCard and SyncML support. You can back up the contacts by selecting "send all" and pointign the Infrared or bluetooth at any computer (Win/Mac/Linux) and selecting send. it will create a standard vCard file with all contact details stored in it. and to send it back to the phone, just send the single file. Even outlook on the PC cannot handle a vCard with numerous contacts so simply and elegantly, heaven help Mobile Outlook users!
it is simply the best PDA i have ever had, and does follow to some extent Jerry Kaplan's original vision...
Oh and i forgot to mention, its a damn good phone too!
Have a nice day!
what monopoly?
Legally Microsoft is a Monopoly. Microsoft was shown in court to control nearly 100% of it's market. Obviously a single person running a different OS does not alter the fact that Microsoft has monopoloy power. Even 5% of people using non-Microsoft not enough to signifigantly diminish that monopoly power.
Monopoly is not defined as absolute 100% perfection. It is (roughly) defined as an overwhelming dominance and control of the relevant market.
Microsoft was further shown to have (1) illegally abused that monopoly power to maintain their monopoly, and (2) to have illegally abused that monopoly power in an attempt to extend their monopoly into other markets (and thus exterminating competitors and competition in those markets).
Examples from the court case include Microsoft abusing it's Monopoly power to force all major computer sellers to sign contracts forbiding them from selling dual-boot machines. Computer sellers could have included Window/Linux dual boot option at essentially zero additional cost (or Windows/OS2 dual boot at merely the cost of an OS2 licence). The public would have greatly benefited from a completely FREE additional Linux system on their machine, and from the option for a low-cost OS2 (or other) second boot option. Illegally maintaing a Monopoly.
Micrsoft further worded that contract such that the seller had to pay Microsoft for EVERY machine they sold. If they offered a system without an OS, or with Linux, or with OS2, they STILL had to pay Microsoft for that machine. That has the twin effects of increasing the cost to the consumer to buy a Linux or OS2 machine, and it allows Microsoft to effectly collect a tax on its competitors products. Illegally maintaining a monopoly.
Microsoft also illegally leveraged it's OS monopoly in an attempt to create a new monopoly for itself in the web browser market. InternetExplorer has obtained a somewhat overwhelming dominance, but that doesn't matter. Even if InternetExplorer failed and had merely 1% of the market, the tactics they used in the attempt were themselves illegal. Illegally attempting to abuse a monopoly to create a monopoly in another market.
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
And how do you sell your soul to a book? That just has some mightily amusing implications depending on one's literary choices...