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A Ready-Made MythTV Set-Top Box in Australia
Anonymous Coward writes "Australian Personal Computer magazine published a review of a new all-in-one set-top-box based on linux.
A quick analysis of the device yields some cheats/hacks that not only allow you to enable the advertisment skipping feature they disabled, but could allow system compromise.
The system also runs a GPL version of MythTV - anyone else see any licensing issues?" Only if they don't follow the GPL.
the source is in the iso.
-NiPs
I am 100% certain they are both smoking from Darl's pipe and paying Darl's fees...
Damn!
They don't NEED to give a link to the source. They only need to supply it free (or cost of media) if someone who has a binary asks. You, unless you bought this device, have no right to ask the company for the source. Nothing will stop recipients of it from spreading it, but the mere fact that a company looked at a GPL'd product doesn't mean they're obligated to host it for everyone.
It's a common myth that the source code to GPL'd software must be made available for download off an FTP site or something similar. That is not what the GPL requires. The GPL requires you make the source available upon request. That being said, it would appear the source is being distributed, anyways.
Don't get your panties in a twist every time someone is making money with a method that involves the GPL. Instead of asking the dumbass question "anyone else see any licensing issues?", do some research yourself for fuck's sake.
Atomic Magazine this month had a cover CD featuring a modified Knoppix distro for MythTV. Haven't checked it out yet, but looks quite interesting.
I no longer use my old Series 1 tivo. The hacks are nice, but with something based on a PC, the sky's the limit.
Currently, I'm using SageTV It's a PC based DVR software package. With it, I can currently;
- Record two standard def stations, and a high def station at the same time while watching a fourth video of any type. (Obviously, this requires having two tuners and an HDTV tuner.)
- Record standard TV to MPEG-2, MPEG-1, or just about any other format. This makes it easier to make VCDs, DVDs, or just play the program back on a standard PC.
- Playback using Dscalar to deinterlace the video.
- Play DVDs
- Play DivX
- Record shows as favorites (just like season passes) or let SageTV record things based on my past viewing habits (much like tivo's suggestions only I don't have to bother with thumbs up and down buttons)
- Do all of the above with an integrated schedule, which is free. No need to pay a monthly fee.
- Play and manage my MP3 library (I think you can do ogg, ape, etc. with some tweaks to the config)
- Stream video and audio to another PC over my LAN.
I'm sure I'm missing much more. This thing does way more than any tivo, even a hacked tivo, and it's constantly being expanded. It surpasses TiVo and ReplyTV in every way. I've even found it to be more flexible than MythTV and Showstopper (though they do have a few benefits in some areas.)
according to the GPL...I thought they only had to provide source to paying customers at their request. No one ever said they had to offer it up for free...
That may be what you read into the GPL, but you cannot cite any text to that affect.
The GPL is pretty general about the issue of how to provide the source code. It primarily reinforces that 1) you have to provide it to those who ask for it and 2) it must be for a reasonable fee only to cover costs.
The system also runs a GPL version of MythTV - anyone else see any licensing issues?
Commercial does not mean proprietary. Selling commercial products using Open Source is great - it often helps pay OSS programmers rent.
Why on earth do the Slashbots immediately assume anyone selling OSS is a) violating the GPL and b) evil ?
When are they going to realize that if I am going to buy something meant to go into my home theater, it needs to fit in. That means is should be ~19" x 2-5" not some silly ass cube, it looks like a bookshelf unit.
I heard about this a bit early - I did some digging around on their website.
The openly admit it runs MythTV (once you find the comments), and that the source code is available ON the device itself...
Technically speaking, I think that actually qualifies for compliance.
There was a large thread about this recently on the mythtv user's forum.
I got 1300 on a currency calculator.. From the looks of the source for this thing it's a via based motherboard (via-rhine chipset) which means it's prolly either whatever via chipset mobo shuttle has out, or an epia based board. Either way, doing some rough calculations, you can put together this whole damn box for like under a grand... In fact Fry's had a media mini-itx case here from somebody (non-shuttle I believe) for like 400 with the pretty little facepanel and dials and crap) Figure in an AMD or Intel cpu at 50-200 bucks depending on how fast you want this thing to be, plus a hard drive (100 bux since their min is 80 gig, and that's being pushy), plus a capture card (Happauge PVR 250 is like 150$ here), and a DVD drive (30-80 depending on brand), plus maybe 90 bucks for a 512 or 180 for 2 sticks of PC3200 DDR.
8 0=1110$
:)
400+50+100+150+30+90=820$
400+200+100+150+80+1
So even buying everything off the shelf you could probably put together one of these systems for less than that price. Coupled with the fact that they should be mass producing these bastards they should be selling them for sub 700 bucks, and probably 400-500 if they want to be competitive.
Just my many thousand cents
-- vranash
Its amusing how many of your cry about how Linux is still lacking desktop penetration, yet you are quick to run anybody down using it to make a product for PROFIT (Perish the thought!). Lay down your purism, pour your haterade down the drain and sit back and enjoy the fact that hardly anybody will buy that overpriced box.. Would you all rather it was running windows? I would! I wish it was running on window ME with 32 megs of ram for the power Tivo user. Yeh baby. Some nice pointed out specs on the site crediting those who have paved their way (ie Redhat etc) might be good though.
Company representatives and developers are in contact with the MythTV developers and participate in the MythTV mailinglists.
The source is in the ISO. Some people identified some minor issues of non-compliance but the company already made clear that they wanted to comply fully and also want to contribute some things to the project.
If all these GPL fanatics would do some research before crying out loud...
What happens if you try to watch Mythbusters on MythTV? Something like matter-antimatter annihilation?
In Soviet Russia, Chuck Norris will still kick your ass.
Andrew Jamieson who works for the company in question posted to the mythtv list today and they have the full intention of being GPL compilent (if they're not already!).
According to the email, the developer sent a message to Issac (lead developer for Myth) and I'm assuming that they're going to be working together to make Myth a better product.
Don't listen to the 'tards, this is good for Mythtv.
--Ajay
From the owner's manual available here
GNU GPL LicenseYour Rights Under the GNU GPL
The software used in the Home Media Centre is based on GNU General Public License (GNU GPL) software, with some further enhancements and modifications. This gives you, the purchaser, certain legal rights including the right to examine, modify and re-distribute the source code without the permission of Development One. To allow you to do these things, Development One has placed a copy of the Home Media Centre source code on the unit itself. In order to access the source code you will need to connect a VGA monitor, keyboard and mouse to the appropriate ports on the back of the unit. You can then logon as user "root" with the password "HomeMediaCentre". You can find the source code in various directories under "/root/hmc/". For further information regarding the software and the modifications you may make to it, refer to the MythTV PVR Project at http://www.mythtv.org. However, be aware that you may only modify and distribute the source code in accordance with the GNU GPL. Before you do any of these things please ensure you fully understand your obligations by viewing the full text of the GNU GPL at http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.txt.
The GNU GPL and Your Warranty
You have been provided with a warranty by Development One. This warranty covers the parts, labour and software components of your Home Media Centre. In order to maintain this warranty you must meet certain obligations. One of these obligations is that you do not modify the software on your Home Media Centre in a manner not authorised by Development One (see your warranty card for further details and other obligations.) This warranty does not in any way derogate from the legal rights you have under the GNU GPL. You may examine the source code without affecting your warranty. You may also modify any copy of the source code not stored on your Home Media Centre without affecting your warranty. However be aware that modifying the original copy of the source code on your Home Media Centre, recompiling the source code or any other unauthorised modification of the software on your Home Media Centre will void your warranty. A Home Media Centre which has had unauthorised modifications, whether made pursuant to your rights under the GNU GPL or otherwise, is not covered by your warranty.
So if I want to distribute a commerical product using GPL code I must seperate the GPL code from the commerical code? Differentiate then at a function based level? Class Level? File Level? Logical Level? Can I re-write functions internal to the GPL project to get the output I need?
nonononono.
First, decide if you want your product to be GPL. If not, then you can't use any GPL code at all, on the level you're talking. If you want to include GPL software on your CD, but your actual program is separate and independent of the GPL stuff, no problem. You must provide sources for the GPL product, but not yours.
Second, commercial or non-commercial is irrelevant. Forget about it. The only issue is when you charge for the source code, you can't charge more than "reasonable cost of media" or somesuch.
Third, if you don't want your program to be GPL, but you want to use open source code, make sure you link dynamically to libraries that are LGPL, or another open source license that allows dynamic linking in that fashion.
Fourth, you have to deal with license compatibility. I think it's possible to link to a GPL library statically, or to incorporate GPL code into yours without GPLing your own code, but you have to release your code under a GPL-compatible license. That area is complicated and I don't completely understand it myself.
So, in summary, if you want your program to be GPL, you don't have to worry about separating your code from theirs. You only have to make sure you keep all copyright notices intact, and you note what changes you made to the code and place your own copyright notices around your own code. The end result will all be GPL, so you just want to make sure your contributions are noted. This is important in the future because if you don't, and the core developers all agree to change the license, they could change the license on your code without your permission, but they don't know they need your permission because you didn't mark your code properly.
The GPL doesn't deal with commercial vs non-commercial uses of the software, it only deals with distribution--all distribution.
If you dynamically link to LGPL libraries, you must provide the source code upon request to those libraries, but you do not have to provide the source code to your program nor do you have to GPL your program. If a GPL library can reasonably be expected to be installed on someone's machine, you don't have to GPL your code, I think. Because it's a system library. So you don't have to GPL your code that uses the WinAPI and winelib to compile, since you can reasonably expect the end-user to have winelib. I think. I could be wrong.
Remember, I'm not a lawyer, and the answers to all of your questions can be found at the source.
Like what I said? You might like my music
How come EVERY SECOND POST on /. now is about some boring Australian shit? It wouldn't be so bad if any of the stories were relevant or vaguely interesting, but they aren't...they always seem like a desperately-biased editor's barrel-scrapings.
Slashdot is a global news site.
If you are going to whinge, then complain about the fact that a large proportion of stories are US-biased "barrel-scrapings" as well. Since when was this slashdot.org.us?
.org is an international TLD.
"That's 1,300 US dollars. Lets just say that it isn't ever going to be a competitor to Tivo."
Which, unfortunately, doesn't really address the issue as TiVo (or any other DVR) is not available in Australia. Even Microsofts' WME is not available here yet. Personally I reckon there is a market for this device and as soon as I manage to collect enough lunch money to order one I am going to.
That the creator of Myth TV is currently out of work, I would like to see some type of money go to him from this.
Before I bought one of these I would need:
1 and 3 are the ones I'm not confident I'd be able to cheaply and easily do on a homebrew box.
Maybe there's a "watchdog" on the Myth system that reboots the system if Myth dies. The user won't want to wait for the system to reboot every time that they fast forward too quickly (happens on mine) or 'activate' some other bug.
Take the MediaMVP by Hauppauge. It's a Linux-based device designed for use by the "average user". How do they keep it up to date? Well, very little OS or software is on the unit itself. It netboots off a server you run on one of your PCs. The server (Windows app) checks for updates from Hauppauge's site, and when it gets one, it just loads it to the MediaMVP the next time it boots.
Obviously, you wouldn't want to require every user to have a LAN connection to an always-on home computer for net booting (or would you?). Besides, the whole Linux/Myth suite (remember, we need X too) would be a pretty hefty network transfer. With a "closed" device like this one, it'll be hard for users to install bugfixes, patch security holes, etc. etc. without being experienced in Linux (think power user instead of grandma).
I think the Home Media Center/re is going to need some sort of update method for both Myth and Linux. One little annoying bug would drive me crazy if there was nothing I could do about it.
-- If you can read this, you are too close to my signature.
You are somewhat close but if you don't know what you are taling about and are not willing to READ the GPL, stop posting "I thoughts". They can EITHER
1) Provide the source with the binaries to everyone they give the binary to ("customers") and not place restrictions on who they give it to.
or
2) They can provide a written offer to those that they give the binary to to get access to the source for a "reasonable" copying fee. This is where the third party stuff starts coming in because now third parties can use this written offer to request and get the source from the vendor
The relevant section of the GPL says
--- Liberty in our Lifetime
False. _Any_ third party.
3b) Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code, to be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange
but they seem to be using option 3a) Accompany it with the complete corresponding machine-readable source code, which must be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange