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Rare South Atlantic Hurricane Heads Toward Brazil

jellisky writes "An unprecendented sort of weather event has been occuring recently, without much fanfare at all. A tropical cyclone in the south Atlantic is slowly drifting toward Brazil. The southern Atlantic ocean isn't exactly a hurricane hotbed, as pointed out by National Hurricane Center forecaster Jack Beven, "We know there hasn't been a hurricane in that area since at least the satellite era, the mid-60s at the minimum." The storm is a small one, though, but has estimated winds near minimal hurricane strength (74-95 mph). It's quite an interesting sight, perfect for piquing the weather curiousity that many of us have."

52 comments

  1. salsa by maddu · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Brazilian mamba ?

    1. Re:salsa by BinLadenMyHero · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Wrong.
      Here we have not salsa, not mamba, but samba.

    2. Re:salsa by Bombcar · · Score: 1

      An here I though samba was Australian.......

  2. Better picture of it here... by shiwala · · Score: 5, Informative

    Here's a nicer image of the cyclone.

    1. Re:Better picture of it here... by dnahelix · · Score: 4, Informative

      Did you try the 250m pixel size link[4.5M image] from the same page?
      Incredible resolution!

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    2. Re:Better picture of it here... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok.. load that picture.

      Scroll down to the very bottom right.

      See the green stick type thing???

      WTF?

  3. hurricanes in California by bobbozzo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    We had the tail end of a hurricane from baja hit southern California about 2 years ago... a very rare event.
    It didn't do a whole lot of damage; many areas get 80-90mph Santa Ana winds occasionally.

    --
    Nothing to see here; Move along.
  4. Interesting? by OC_Wanderer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Interesting isn't a word I'd choose to use for storms which are people killers.

    --
    -- There is no spoon. Only fork.
    1. Re:Interesting? by tblease · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Interesting isn't a word I'd choose to use for storms which are people killers.

      Oh, but I think that's what makes them so interesting though... The more we know about these storms (their patterns, forces behind them, etc.), the more we can do to be better prepared for them -- potentially saving people's lives that would otherwise be lost.

      --
      huzzah
    2. Re:Interesting? by leg_br · · Score: 1

      This one have killed two people: one died of a heart attack and the other one drowned with his boat.

    3. Re:Interesting? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      storms don't kill people, people who sin which in turn angers the gods who in turn make the storms, kill people. get it right now.

      and in a more serious note, lighten the @!$& up.

  5. How long... by I+Be+Hatin' · · Score: 2, Funny
    Until the first post blaming this on "global warming" *cough*cough*?

    --
    I know god exists. I read it on the internet, so it must be true.
    1. Re:How long... by Psion · · Score: 1

      Approximately thirty-six seconds.

    2. Re:How long... by Psion · · Score: 1

      Um...times sixty. [frigging "Slow Down Cowboy" messages!]

    3. Re:How long... by thumpernickle · · Score: 1

      As a climate change researcher, I wouldn't dare make the leap that the storm in the south atlantic is caused by global climate change (Although it has never has occured in recorded history). An enormous amount of research would have to be done to make a connection between the two events. What is dishartening to me is the fact the so many people can cast aside the enormous amount of evidence that global climate change is occuring. Is it just because your in denial that some of the choices that we all make when it comes to energy use has detrimental effects on the environment? Or, do you have a problem accepting responsibility for these choices that you have made as a consumer of energy? This is an important subject that shouldn't be trivalized by people who have no clue when it comes to atmospheric or environmental science. I want to make sure that my children have a safe and clean environment to grow old in. That shouldn't come at the expense of your desire for instant gratification. So I'll continue to work on proving to skeptics such as your self that global climate change is real and here to stay and you can do whatever it is that you do to serve your own self interest. SO Ron Jearamy has a master's degree. I bet it's not in climate science.

    4. Re:How long... by I+Be+Hatin' · · Score: 1
      What is dishartening to me is the fact the so many people can cast aside the enormous amount of evidence that global climate change is occuring. Is it just because your in denial that some of the choices that we all make when it comes to energy use has detrimental effects on the environment?

      I think it's pretty well documented that climate change is occuring (though still, the heteroskedasticity of the data makes this hard to prove). However, the link that's never been made is that our actions are what's causing it. There have been many major shifts in world climate over the last few million years, and we certainly didn't cause any of them. So it's rather poor science to make the leap that "we're pumping out greenhouse gasses" + "we have a theory as to how greenhouse gasses can lead to global climate change" + "the global climate is changing" => "we're causing the global climate change".

      --
      I know god exists. I read it on the internet, so it must be true.
    5. Re:How long... by thumpernickle · · Score: 1

      I know that it is extremely difficult to link human activities to climate change. The complexity of global climate is so vast that no mathmatical model could ever come close to approximating it. That said, I believe that the connection not being made between human activity and climate change is due to a construct of our limited mathmatical abilities to model such a relationship. We still work with linear relationships in modeling as it is. No one as of yet has invented a way to model exponential relationships. Although the connection can't be made consider this. Humans add 7 billion tons of CO2 to the atmosphere every year. Atmospheric CO2 concentraton increases 3% every year. Simple chemistry tells us that if you add material to a chemical reaction on one end of an equation, it will drive the reaction in the opposite direction. Although I'm comparing a simple system to a complex one, it doesn't take a leap of faith to see that as humans we do have some effect on our environment. As far as how much of an effect that is remains to be seen.

  6. Historical Occurances by VoiceOfSanity · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Over the last year there have been several unusual hurricane events. The first recorded hurricane in the Atlantic to occur in April was in 2003, along with the first recorded hurricane in December, both breaking long-standing records. This one however is most unusual because of the weather patterns in that part of the world. While they have most of the necessary conditions (warm water, weather systems) the prevailing winds blow from west to east (as opposed to east to west for the North Atlantic tropics), usually tearing systems that could develop into shreads.

    This becomes a problem because unlike areas that are used to hurricanes (US, Carribbean, Pacific, Australia, Madagascar) the Brazilians have no experience with tropical systems, so they have no way of knowing what to expect. Having lived through 16 of them (including Betsy in 1965, Camille in 1969 and Andrew in 1992) all I can say is that anyone living in the potential landfall area might want to consider going inland a ways.

    A good site to look at is the Naval Research Labs Monterey hurricane page located here:

    http://www.nrlmry.navy.mil/tc_pages/tc_home.html

    It lists all of the systems they are following, along with a very good collection of satellite images.

    1. Re:Historical Occurances by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      usually tearing systems that could develop into shreads.

      Pardon my pedantry, but that sentence, uh, sux0rs. The systems would hardly be developing into shreds. Keep together the result and the tearing: Tearing into shreds any systems...

  7. God bless... by psyconaut · · Score: 0

    ....global warming....and all who thrive in her... ;-)

    -psy

  8. Maybe by Molina+the+Bofh · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Maybe it's one of the first signs that this prediction may be accurate.

    And, as the article says, Bush thinks Global Warmin is a hoax. Typical.

    --

    -
    Roses are #FF0000, Violets are #0000FF, find / -name '*base*' |xargs chown -R us && mv zig greatjustice
    1. Re:Maybe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Molina, you are a shallow thinking, jump to conclusions bonehead, just like your enemigo Bush.

    2. Re:Maybe by Molina+the+Bofh · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Can you elaborate ?

      What exactly leads you to think the Pentagon report may be wrong ? Why do you think I am jumping to conclusions bonehead ? I just said it could be the cause.

      They said weather changes will come sooner than almost everybody expected.

      The fact is that our weather is changing. Can you deny that ?

      It's been happening for some years already. Read this, from 1999.

      From there, things are getting worse. Islands in the South Pacific abandoned by their residents as their ground water turns salty; Connecticut-size bergs calving off the antarctic ice mass; record floods in Europe followed by more record floods. Across northern India this year, record-breaking heat storms arrived before the monsoon, raising the temperature to 123 degrees in the shade--so hot that the birds were dropping dead from the trees. You can read it all here

      So, please, explain to me why I am a shallow thinker.

      --

      -
      Roses are #FF0000, Violets are #0000FF, find / -name '*base*' |xargs chown -R us && mv zig greatjustice
    3. Re:Maybe by Mr.+Piddle · · Score: 1


      The extreme rapid change described in that article brings up my skeptic meter a bit. I really wonder if that report is one of the many disaster case studies that the government does for planning purposes. They do lots of fictional thought-experiments for things like biological attack, what happens if russian scientists sell everything to Iran, etc. Before I believe that article, I would need to see corroberating information.

      --
      Vote in November. You won't regret it.
    4. Re:Maybe by 2marcus · · Score: 2, Interesting
      If you go to the original study you can see that it is in fact well-caveated. It was a hypothetical scenario - designed to look at unlikely and extreme outliers of what climate scientists are studying.

      Note that I am a believer in reducing greenhouse gas emissions in order to reduce the likelihood of extreme negative climate change events. However, the Pentagon report should really not be used as an example of mainstream climate science (I believe the authors themselves do not work in the field). And the Guardian really went overboard in their reporting of it.

    5. Re:Maybe by Mr.+Piddle · · Score: 1

      So, please, explain to me why I am a shallow thinker.

      Like many conspiracy/doomsday theorists you seem to be taking piecemeal evidence and drawing sweeping conclusions from it.

      The report cited by the Guardian was actually a "what if" thought experiment by the US government. It is no different than having epidemiologists saying "what if a bio attack happened, what would the outcome be?". It simply predicts the worst case imaginable so government planners can try do thier jobs. The likelihood of anything that bad happening is slim to none. In fact, I would be more worried about the unpredictable, meaning I just go on with my life and hope for the best.

      --
      Vote in November. You won't regret it.
    6. Re:Maybe by Molina+the+Bofh · · Score: 1

      The difference being the actual question is not "what if", but when.

      We face both increased flooding and increased drought. Extended heat waves, more powerful storms, and other extreme weather events will become more and more common.

      The greenhouse gases we've already placed in the atmosphere will continue to warm the planet for many decades if not centuries. Right now, there is about 40 percent more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere than there was at the dawn of the Industrial Revolution. The CO2 concentration is projected to reach twice the pre-industrial level by the middle of this century. This doubling of CO2 is the scenario most scientists have relied on in projecting the likely impacts of global warming. But here's what's really troubling: If we continue with business as usual, by the turn of the century greenhouse gas concentrations will be approaching three times the pre-industrial levels. In other words, we may be facing consequences far more severe than those already projected.

      --

      -
      Roses are #FF0000, Violets are #0000FF, find / -name '*base*' |xargs chown -R us && mv zig greatjustice
    7. Re:Maybe by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1
      The fact is that our weather is changing. Can you deny that ?

      It always does. It always has. It's the cause that's in question. That's where you're leaping to conclusions based on hunt-and-peck evidence.

    8. Re:Maybe by unger · · Score: 2, Informative

      here's another copy of the original study with a slightly improved .pdf conversion:

      http://www.ems.org/climate/pentagon_climatechang e. pdf

  9. Paraguary? by barakn · · Score: 1

    The OSEI image looks like it was hastily assembled.....

    --
    "I'm so moist I'm sticking to the leather." -Kermit the Frog on The Late Late Show
  10. better how? by barakn · · Score: 2, Informative

    Aesthetically more pleasing. However, the OSEI image didn't crop the edges of the storm system, and the increased amount of land mass visible allows easier identification of where the storm is occuring in relation to the South American coast. In addition, the infrared information contained in the OSEI image makes it far more easy to distinguish between relatively warm, low-lying clouds (yellowish) and the cold tops of the cloud towers near the eye of the storm (in white).

    --
    "I'm so moist I'm sticking to the leather." -Kermit the Frog on The Late Late Show
    1. Re:better how? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      However, the OSEI image didn't crop the edges of the storm system, and the increased amount of land mass visible allows easier identification

      On the other hand, they misspelled Paraguay.

  11. Atlantic anomalously COOL right now by mc6809e · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Most of the South Atlantic is actually cooler than average, so it seems unlikely that global warming is to blame.

    1. Re:Atlantic anomalously COOL right now by BigBadBri · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Why unlikely?

      Global warming is just that - a warming, on average, of the globe.

      The fact that the majority of the South Atlantic is cooler than average could reflect any one of a number of causes, one of the most likely of which is a warming of the Antarctic leading to increased melting of the icecap, thus releasing lots of cold water into the South Atlantic.

      Looking at the chart, this seems plausible, as the concentration of colder water is away from the continental shelf of South America, and appears to skirt around the South Atlantic islands (notice the finger of yellow / orange sticking out from the coast of Argentina).

      Cyclone formation is driven by temperature gradients, rather than average temperature, and the fact that the (normally slightly warmer) water on the continental shelf is warmer than usual, whereas the deepwater areas are colder, leads to the conclusion that the temperature gradient is much higher than usual.

      So it's not surprising that a cyclone has formed, and the anomalous temperature gradients are perfectly consistent with global warming.

      One thing from the map - I'd love to be in a boat off Namibia right now, watching the dolphins and whales - that extra cold water will be full of food, and it'll be a bumper autumn's fishing all along the South-West coast of Africa.

      --
      oh brave new world, that has such people in it!
    2. Re:Atlantic anomalously COOL right now by MrWa · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I thought the prevailing hypothesis about global warming was that it would result in some nonintuitive weather and temperature changes - i.e. the Gulf Stream stopping would make things become actually colder in places.

      Not to say that you are wrong and this does have anything to do with global warming, just that I think only looking at water temperature is not enough to be conclusive.

    3. Re:Atlantic anomalously COOL right now by NiklasD · · Score: 1

      Howecer

      --

      Don't drink and sudo

    4. Re:Atlantic anomalously COOL right now by NiklasD · · Score: 1

      Cyclone formation is driven by temperature gradients, rather than average temperature, and the fact that the (normally slightly warmer) water on the continental shelf is warmer than usual, whereas the deepwater areas are colder, leads to the conclusion that the temperature gradient is much higher than usual.

      However, tropical cyclones result from a vertical temperature gradient - rising warm, moist air over warm water - not a horizontal one.
      --

      Don't drink and sudo

    5. Re:Atlantic anomalously COOL right now by BigBadBri · · Score: 1
      What warms the air and causes it to rise?

      A horizontal temperature gradient, starting from a steady state, will warm the air over the warm water more than the air over the cold, causing the warm air to rise and to suck in the air from the cold end of the gradient.

      Coriolis does the rest, causing the incoming air to rotate and form the cyclone.

      It is the horizontal gradient in the water that provides the differential heating in the air, and leads to the end result that you claim as a cause.

      --
      oh brave new world, that has such people in it!
  12. Thanks! by Undefined+Parameter · · Score: 1

    Now I'm not thinking to myself, "gee, that cyclone could be a good thing, sweeping out all those smog-yellow clouds like that...."

    ~UP

    --
    Eat the Path.
  13. Hurricane or Cyclone by inf0stud · · Score: 0

    It's a cyclone. It's the Southern Hemisphere. There are only Hurricaynes in the Northern Hemisphere.

    1. Re:Hurricane or Cyclone by Eevee · · Score: 1

      It's not quite that simple. According to the University of Illinois, since it's in the Atlantic it's called a hurricane. Cyclone is used in the Indian and Southwestern Pacific area.

    2. Re:Hurricane or Cyclone by 2marcus · · Score: 4, Informative
      Actually, the the NOAA FAQ lists hurricane/cyclone terminology, and oddly there is no approved name for a South Atlantic hurricane... which may testify further to the rareness of the event. Quote follows:

      Tropical cyclones with maximum sustained surface winds of less than 17 m/s (34 kt, 39 mph) are called "tropical depressions". (This is not to be confused with the condition mid-latitude people get during a long, cold and grey winter wishing they could be closer to the equator ;-)) Once the tropical cyclone reaches winds of at least 17 m/s they are typically called a "tropical storm" and assigned a name. If winds reach 33 m/s (64 kt, 74 mph)), then they are called: a "hurricane" (the North Atlantic Ocean, the Northeast Pacific Ocean east of the dateline, or the South Pacific Ocean east of 160E); a "typhoon" (the Northwest Pacific Ocean west of the dateline); a "severe tropical cyclone" (the Southwest Pacific Ocean west of 160E or Southeast Indian Ocean east of 90E); a "severe cyclonic storm" (the North Indian Ocean); and a "tropical cyclone" (the Southwest Indian Ocean) (Neumann 1993).

  14. s/global warming/climate change by 2marcus · · Score: 5, Informative
    In fact, those of us who do climate science use the term "climate change" rather than "global warming". As MrWa stated, thermohaline circulation (gulf stream) collapse would lead to anomalous cooling in the northern Atlantic (unlikely in the near term according to the models I've seen), but we also study aerosol effects (sulfate cooling, the effect of the Pinatubo eruption, etc), and so on. And in general regional changes in temperature, while hard to predict, can be either positive or negative even if global mean surface temperatures are increasing.

    In any case, most models do not predict large warming of the equatorial band, partially because evaporation over tropical oceans keeps the atmosphere from heating. Of course, this increased evaporation leads to increased latent heat, which is a possible cause of extreme weather.

    Having said that, one extreme event does not proof of climate change make. Climate change is about long term trends, not short term weather. If we see more South Atlantic hurricanes over the next decade, then there would be an indication that they could be a result of climate change.

    Then we could look for the proximate cause: increased latent heat, ocean temperature patterns, change in winds, salinity changes, all of the above concurrent or consecutive, whatever. Then we would ask, is this change something we would expect from human induced change, eg increased greenhouse gas forcing or aerosols or something else.

  15. FAQ on South Atlantic Tropical Events by 2marcus · · Score: 3, Informative
    From the NOAA FAQ:

    Subject: G7) Why doesn't the South Atlantic Ocean experience tropical cyclones?

    Though many people might speculate that the sea surface temperatures are too cold, the primary reasons that the South Atlantic Ocean gets no tropical cyclones are that the tropospheric (near surface to 200mb) vertical wind shear is much too strong and there is typically no inter-tropical convergence zone (ITCZ) over the ocean (Gray 1968). Without an ITCZ to provide synoptic vorticity and convergence (i.e. large scale spin and thunderstorm activity) as well as having strong wind shear, it becomes very difficult to nearly impossible to have genesis of tropical cyclones.

    However, in rare occasions it may be possible to have tropical cyclones form in the South Atlantic. In McAdie and Rappaport (1991), the US National Hurricane Center documented the occurrence of a strong tropical depression/weak tropical storm that formed off the coast of Congo in mid-April 1991. The storm lasted about five days and drifted toward the west-southwest into the central South Atlantic. So far, there has not been a systematic study as to the conditions that accompanied this rare event.

  16. Details, in brazilian portuguese by BinLadenMyHero · · Score: 2, Informative

    Pasted from the local oglobo.globo.com, free reg. required.

    Ciclone Catarina ganha forca e deve atingir Santa Catarina neste domingo

    ClicRBS
    CBN

    RIO - Batizado de Catarina, o ciclone extratropical que se formou a 440 quilometros da costa sul do pais ganhou forca durante a madrugada deste sabado e deve chegar ao continente na madrugada deste domingo, se for mantido este ritmo de deslocamento.

    O ciclone, que tem ventos de 118 a 152 quilometros por hora, deve entrar no continente brasileiro entre Itajai, no litoral norte catarinense, e a Foz do Prata, no litoral gaucho, atingindo principalmente as praias de mar aberto. Especialistas preveem ventos de 70 km/h, podendo chegar a 170 km/h em alto mar.

    E possivel que o fenomeno afete areas no interior catarinense. Meteorologistas alertam, porem, que nao ha razao para panico. Os efeitos causados pelo ciclone extratropical seriam chuva, vento forte e ressaca no mar. De acordo com a previsao do Centro de Hidrografia da Marinha, as ondas deverao chegar a tres metros de altura no litoral norte de Santa Catarina ate Cabo Frio, no Rio de Janeiro. Em mar aberto, as ondas poderao atingir quatro metros de altura.

    Em Santa Catarina, a Defesa Civil e Policia Rodoviaria Federal mantem equipes em plantao permanente atendendo pelo telefone 191. O ciclone que ocorre no litoral e um fenomeno inedito no Atlantico Sul.

    Nas imagens de satelite, o ciclone extratropical, com caracteristicas tropicais, e muito parecido com um furacao - o tipo especifico de ciclone que se abate sobre o Oceano Atlantico Norte, o Mar do Caribe, o Golfo do Mexico e o Oceano Pacifico Leste, ao Norte do Equador.

    - Esse ciclone e incomum porque se desprendeu do restante da frente fria. E a primeira vez que eu vejo um ciclone extratropical perto do Brasil tao concentrado assim - disse Francisco de Assis Diniz, chefe do Centro Nacional de Previsao do Instituto Nacional de Meteorologia, surpreso com a imagem.

  17. Babelfish good work by BinLadenMyHero · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Wow! Did babelfish improved that much since the last time I used it? Apart from calling Rio "River" :), it's a reasonable translation, for a machine:

    Cyclone Catherine gains force and must reach Santa Catarina in this sunday ClicRBS CBN

    RIVER - Baptized of Catherine, the extratropical cyclone that if formed the 440 kilometers of the south coast of the country gained force during the dawn of this Saturday and must arrive at the continent in the dawn of this sunday, will have remained this rhythm of displacement.

    The cyclone, that has winds of 118 for the moment the 152 kilometers, must enter in the Brazilian continent between Itajai, the coast catarinense north, and the Estuary of the Silver, in the coastal gaucho, reaching mainly the beaches of open sea. Specialists foresee winds of to 70 km/h, being able to arrive the 170 km/h in high sea.

    It is possible that the phenomenon affects areas in the catarinense interior. Meteorologistas alerts, however, that it does not have reason for panic. The effect caused for the extratropical cyclone would be rain, strong wind and undertow in the sea. In accordance with the forecast of the Center of Hydrography of the Navy, the waves will have to arrive the three meters of height in the coast north of Santa Catarina until Cold Handle, in Rio De Janeiro. In opened sea, the waves will be able to reach four meters of height.

    In Santa Catarina, the Civil Defense and Federal Road Policy keep teams in permanent plantao taking care of for telephone 191. The cyclone that occurs in the coast is an unknown phenomenon in the South Atlantic.

    In the satellite images, the extratropical cyclone, with tropical characteristics, very is seemed an hurricane - the specific type of cyclone that if abates on the Atlantic Ocean North, the Sea of the Caribbean, the Gulf of Mexico and the Pacific Ocean East, to the North of the Equator.

    - This cyclone is uncommon because it was gotten loose of the remain of the cold front. It is the first time that I see a extratropical cyclone close to Brazil so concentrated thus - said Francisco de Assis Diniz, head of the National Center of Forecast of the National Institute of Meteorology, surpreso with the image.

    1. Re:Babelfish good work by hummassa · · Score: 1

      Yeah, babelfish good work *except* that it translated Rio (de Janeiro) to River :-)

      --
      It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
  18. More Links & Information on the Storm... by cwolfsheep · · Score: 5, Informative

    1. I first found out about the storm on Weather Underground.
    2. Dvorak Source
    3. CNN's 1st page on it. 4. CNN's follow-up page on it.

    *. Hats off to the person that beat me to a first post. ;)

    --

    Life is irony, and nothing ever goes as planned.
  19. Follow-up by cwolfsheep · · Score: 1

    Latest Yahoo story

    The Brazilians dispute "Catarina" isn't a hurricane. But they've never had one before. (shrugs)

    --

    Life is irony, and nothing ever goes as planned.
  20. Anti-Hurricane by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 1

    Cyclones are in the pacific and Indian oceans. However perhaps "anti-hurricane" would be a better name since it has the opposite spin to a normal Hurricane.

  21. Funny. by hummassa · · Score: 1

    I dispute I do not have AIDS. But I've never had it before. (duh)

    --
    It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048