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SCO Uses 3rd Parties To Spread Claims In Germany
kryonD writes "According to this Computer Weekly article, SCO is no longer allowed to spread their FUD in Germany. This wasn't even a court or government order, but an out of court settlement with a small company. They even get 'fined' EU10,000 by the company for every breach of the settlement. Although, it appears from the article that SCO is side-stepping the agreement by commissioning 3rd party firms to spread their FUD for them. The settlement happened last month, but this is the first I have heard of it. I wonder what made them back down so quickly."
We mentioned the settlement earlier this month (including prohibitions on making certain claims); the news is the attempt to circumvent it.
FTA: "Gregory Blepp, vice-president of licensing at SCO in the US, said he was working to create legal conditions which require Linux users in Germany to purchase SCO's intellectual property licenses" Blepp dude come to our universe its not that bad. (i a n a l)
"It's so convenient to have a system where everyone is a criminal" - A. Hitler
A SCO story! It's about time!
sig != null
Fine SCO every time someone writes another article about them. They're being so damn frivolous that it pains me to hear anything else about them short of their ultimate demise.
This is just one of those stories where you hold your head in your hands and sigh. Now, SCO, write "I will observe the spirit of the law and not the letter" a thousand times on the board.
The Yasashii Syndicate ||
Go check Groklaw. IBM is asking for a declaratory judgement. SCOX trading tomorrow should be, um, amusing.
Where the inmates really *do* run the asylum.
If SCO can be sued and they settle by agreeing to not spread their propaganda, then it's equally possible that SCO's sidekick could be sued for exactly the same thing. Since there is a court precedent, wouldn't any company willing to do this think twice - because they would be sued too?
Everytime anyone says SCO you'll be fined eu1000
You said SCO!
Oooops I said SCO!
I said SCO again!
NI!
*DrugCheese rants*
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=200403301 84527522
http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104-5182078.html
Go not unto/. for advice, for you will be told both yea and nay (but have nothing to do with the question)
It's this kind of behavior that helps us see why they're afraid of showing code. They think that as soon as they do someone will find a clever way around their claims, just as they would do if put in the same position. Now, that doesn't change the fact that a lot of someones will probably find a lot of clever ways around their claims, but isn't that exactly what they should want if they were living in the same world as the rest of us?
There was Cowboy Neal at the wheel of a bus to never-ever land.
Keep your eyes to the sky.
If SCO isn't allowed to spread FUD then wouldn't commissioning other companies to do it also not be allowed?
The only way it would be legal is if the other company was acting on its own. If SCO paid them to say they were not acting on behalf of SCO, wouldn't that be illegal too?
The settlement disallows employees of SCO making claims agains Linux, but by commissioning an advertising company the company becomes employeed by SCO in some sort of sense... the article said that it was a borderline tactic, but methinks that if it wound up in court SCO would be penalised.
I drink to make other people interesting!
Then I can scan it and finally use ghostscript's toilet paper setting, I'd print SCO liscenses for everyone!
isn't this a case of the patsy using a patsy? What I wanna know is who is going to be the patsy for this paty's patsy.
Since when is Gregory Blepp able to create legal conditions. At best, he can lobby congress to push the UN to make a resoltuion that Germany should make a law forcing Germans to purchase "SCO's intellectual property"....hmmm I wonder at what point they would realize the futility in that one. Or they could lobby the German govn't directly....yeah, that will go over well.
I know there are trade agreements in place to respect IP laws, but I am curious as to how SCO can create "legal conditions" in other countries. Considering the troubles Microsoft is having in these same other countries, I would think SCO might have a slightly harder time of it.
If you are one in a million, then there are six thousand people who are just like you.
Q.
Insert Signature Here
I don't think SCO should be completely ignored as long as they're still alive and kicking because their FUD machine is a dangerous thing, but maybe they should be limited to one weekly roundup instead of their near-daily coverage.
Aren't people already suspecting SCO is doing Microsoft's dirty work in its fight against OSS?
SCO got a German PR agency to write their claims in a news release. Since it's pretty obvious that no PR agency would by itself do so, couldn't SCO still be fined for making these claims, even if not directly? Even so, the agreement should've stopped "the claims being made" rather than "SCO making the claims," since SCO markedly benefits by the claims and can almost always be shown responsible for some random third-party's claim.
Interesting that this gains its strength through an out-of-court settlement with a private company that extends a temporary injunction against SCO's claims. Some US group (EFF? Red Hat? OSDN? Netscape? Isn't there a group of Linux vendors? FSF?) should try to do the same - get something small done in court, to say "We're not afraid of fighting this in court," then extend that considerably out of court with a promise to return to court.
Heh, the ad on this article is GlobalServers' "Stop worrying about SCO" ad.
The key thing here is that this was an out of court settlement. So there was no verdict, no ruling, no award... no precedent. Even if the judge had mandated this, many other countries don't attach the same sort of reverence to prior judicial decisions as the US does. Our reliance on precedence comes mainly from England (specifically common law). I don't know anything about Germany's judicial system so I have no idea what weight they give prior verdicts/rulings.
I guess not always. But it seems like it sure should have been in this case, and if the settlement had that loophole then shame on Univention's lawyers for letting that slip.
Another interesting point, too. According to the Groklaw article about the settlement, the per-offense fine is only about 10,000 euros. That's not a lot, really; just a tiny extra bit of marketing budget for the FUD machine. Is that really all the teeth the settlement has?
Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
They could "work[] to create legal conditions" the same way they are here, through litigation. If TSG succeeds in their litigation here in the US they would have effectively created legal conditions (i.e., precedent indicating Linux infringes TSG copyrights) which would pressure Linux users to purchase licenses from TSG.
There was Cowboy Neal at the wheel of a bus to never-ever land.
Don't get me wrong, I think TSG's claims are laughable. If anything, I think my comments were intended to show just how silly TSG is. Also, get the facts right. Not to defend them, but TSG has never claimed that Linux "is so tainted with [their] patents" if only for the fact that they don't have any significant patents (if any). I think it most likely that TSG has chose not to show what they claim to be infringing code as a business strategy to delay the inevitable for as long as possible in order to benefit their executives and benefactors as much as possible before the whole house of cards comes crashing down. That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
There was Cowboy Neal at the wheel of a bus to never-ever land.
I just thought of this, with the number of times the summary said, "FUD".
Can we really call the crap SCO is spewing, "FUD"? At this point, no one fears them, everyone is certain they are making this stuff up as they go, of that there is no doubt.
I think the term adds too much credibility to SCO's statements.
now I lay me down, to sleep
I pray the lord, my linux keep
and if I die, before I wake
please cause the failure, of Darl's brakes.
-AMEN-
Obama is a twitter sock puppet
There.. in the title and everything... IANAL
But if SCO agrees not to spread propaganda and then used proxies to spread propaganda didn't they just violate the agreement?
SCO seams to have a very... creative interpretation of laws as they apply to them and others.
I've recently had the opratunity to read vareous text files on how to steal, rip off, blow up, etc etc etc by the crooks that use and perficted those techniques.
Very intresting read if you know how to read between the lines. Basicly they have very unusual/odd interpretations of the applicable laws.
For example one crook has a whole detailed thing on how to get out the door with stuff he didn't buy and create the illusion that he did. (Probably dosen't work anymore).
The intresting part is how he views the applicable laws. He seems to believe that you need to get out the door before you can be stopped for theft. I've observed a few occasions where a crook was cought BEFORE leaving the store. Again IANAL but it sure as heck looks like he was cought dead to rights but I'd have to see how it played out in the corts before I'd know.
The diffrence between the typical crook and SCO is most of what the typical crook is doing is trying to NOT envoke the law no matter how much he believes its on his side. SCO however isn't making any such efforts.
I don't actually exist.
as strange as this seems in most area when a person talks a group of other into doing something ilegal they are acomplices and it they cause a crowd to riot they are charged too.
I don't know about germany's laws but wouldn't the association with the persons doing the action that SCO tryed and was bared from basicaly the same as inciting a riot. Couldn't they still be held acountable anyways loop holes or not. i think it would be the same as if a mob boss ordered the execution of someone, even though somone else did the killing the mob bos can get the rap for it.
well at least thats what i think it should be like. anyone know if it would be that way in germany?
And in other news, SCO raises the price of SCO Unix to $10,699.
As Joseph Goebbels said, that if you repeat a lie often enough, people will end up believing it.
This is what SCrOtum's plan is, to keep the FUD spewing forth and just the politicians who keep getting elected, it is what the "people" know, because they keep hearing about it.
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips
In ancient times there used to be a similar fine (read: death penalty) for mentioning the names of psychopaths who destroyed important pieces of art (who were doing that so that their names remained in history).
The Raven
omg darl shutup. DMCA has nothing to do with this. sco was prohibited from making fruadulent statements in an attempt to scam money out of people. example ( this is EXACTLY what SCO are doing ) I send you a letter stating that i am the real owner of your house and that you must start paying me rent. upon your requesting proof of my claims I refuse and threaten to sue you, and that the only way to prevent me from sueing you is to pay me. only a fool would allow this to happen.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
Yes, I know, there is much to not like about European politics and they sometimes have strange ways about doing things. And the taxes, holy cow. But at least they know that the United States does not rule the world.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
Because I was not a SCO user...
When they came for me, there was no one left to speak up to.
Wait what am I talking about?
Why do we even have a bottle? Will someone please tell me?
Great precident.
Microsoft. Check out some of the older stories on Microsoft's "encouragement" of investment companies to channel some of their funds into SCO. I'm too tired to provide the links tonight, but you can find it by searching for SCO under "Old Stories".
GreyPoopon
--
Why is it I can write insightful comments but can't come up with a clever signature?
is a perp-walk for Darl. And eventually a horny roommate named Bubba. (Uh, for Darl, that is...)
They say the first thing to go is your penis. Well, it's either that or your brain. I forget which...
The settlement was for SCO violating an injunction which was granted by a judge. So I don't quite see your point.
I assume you're talking about the SCO case though regardless of your example. In the SCO case SCO was making public statements. In Germany a local linux organization or group (not sure of their exact status) took SCO to court.
Under their laws they were, in layman's terms, request an order that SCO put up or shut up. If SCO had put up they could have continued to talk about it and as well taken whatever action they felt necessary under the law. But SCO failed after the court gave them the grace period to provide some proof. The judge then issued the shut up order as the law provides.
I agree you want to know when you're infringing someone elses rights. In the US as in Germany people involved in Linux have been saying please tell us where it is and we'll remove your property . SCO has refused, so far.
At the same time would you want ACME Software House running around screaming that code you wrote was theirs? I doubt it. You'd better hire some lawyers and get cracking... And face the loss of business while ACME is lying... You don't have the benefit of a put up or shut up law to deal with those types of criminals. And SCO are criminals. Maybe not by criminal law but by any accepted moral standard.
It is a pity that the PR company isn't named. Linux is getting well established as a server platform in many of Germany's largest banks and IBM are quite powerful there too.
I mean come on, raise your hand if you're really surprised by this. These people are clearly betting the farm with the claims they're making in the hopes that they'll either be bought out by Big Blue or win the case by dazzling a Judge with bullshit. It shouldn't be news for anyone here to find out that they're willing to violate a legal agreement. After all, they've already torn up the GPL and started shoving US copyright law into the shredder several pages at a time.
--Obyron
Ok, just suppose for a moment that I kept telling you that you may be infringing on my copyright so you owe me money but when you ask me for proof so that you can stop or buy a license from me I say, "No, I won't tell you but I'll be happy to sell you a license." What do you think now, would you just give me money?
Amusingly enough, you can't purchase more than 99 licences through the website. They've got a crappy shopping cart that only accepts 2 digits for the quantity.
I tried seeing if I could get their server to crash by filling the quantity box with a big string of garbage text, but no such luck....
"City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
... unlike the US. While precendents can be set, there is the Bundesgesetzbuch (BGB) that pretty much lays out the law. However, the real kicker WRT to German court law is that the loser has to pay the court costs for both sides.
This has several interesting effects: Frivolous lawsuits are rarer, lawyers are paid much lower hourly billing rates, and health insurance is much more affordable. IMHO, this is a much more equitable way to run a legal system than the parasitic mess we have in the US.
Frankly, the folks at SCO should be forced to post bond to assure their countersuers will have something to collect on if SCO goes out of business. Furthermore, I hope that the current management will be held personally liable for their actions while at SCO. Once pointy-headed managers see that there are reprecussions that reach beyond the destruction of a company, perhaps they'll lay off the roullette-wheel approach to attain profits.
With the recent stocks, I see new waves of spam mails:
Just buy 101'000 IP licenses and get 1 SCO for free!
I don't know anything about Germany's judicial system so I have no idea what weight they give prior verdicts/rulings.
They work only in a hierarchical system. Decisions a superior court makes are practicaly seen as precedents. However it is always possible for a minor court to decide otherwise if it has reason to do so.
But not the current crop of CEOs, oh no. They'll fuck anyone and everyone over so that they can make a buck. Or several million of them.
What we need is a mandatory Samauari-style honor code for corporate upper management. With mandatory seppku for the most grevious infractions. Even if the upper management at MCI, Tyco and Enron were completely spotless, they should have all ritually disemboweled themselves for the shameful actions that took place at their companies on their watches. We should expect no less from the people who are the custodians of our fortunes.
"Oh Sure, Mr Fox," you might say, "like that will ever happen!" But it can. All we really need to do is each and every one of us teach our children to live with honor. We can start with a code as simple as "Never lie, never do anything you know is wrong and never do anything you would be ashamed of," and we can go from there.
Of course, the current crop of CEOs would have to have right from wrong spelled out for them, since apparently even the letter and spirit of the law wasn't enough of a hint, but I don't think it'd be an insurmountable goal.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Ficken sie, arseloch..
Liebe, Deutscheland..
I'm guessing legal groups are happy for the whole debacle to continue. After all it's a win-win situation for lawyers. Argh!!! Ghagh!!! The only thing coming close to my dislike for senseless legal stuff is insurance companies. They are what clever people set up instead of casinos - they make much more money - the house still always wins, but the expected return for punters is less - and in the case of motorists - they HAVE to place bets!!!
-- *~()____) This message will self-destruct in 5 seconds...
He destroyed temple of Artemis in Efeze (one of the seven wonders of the ancient world) just to get his name in the history books.
Oddly enough, 23 centeries later a small fast food joint in Rotterdam was named after him.
And now a /. comment to boot!
What's SCO's stance on FreeBSD?