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Mac OS X Trojan Horse Infects MP3s

frequnkn writes "The Mac News Network reports that Intego has anounced an update to their anti-virus app for snagging the first Mac OS X Trojan horse, MP3Concept (MP3Virus.Gen), which exploits a weakness in Mac OS X where applications can appear to be other types of files."

56 of 621 comments (clear)

  1. Ironic the Intego released a solution fast enough by stecoop · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In six years, Intego has made a name for itself in the Internet security and privacy market for Macintosh.

    I always wonder where the sources are for the majority of viruses. It is quite ironic that a company selling you a fix happens to find the problem and releases the solution for the low price of 59.95. Yet a goggle and Symantec Security search didn't yield anything about MP3Virus.Gen. Hmmm - it's awfully nice they fixed this virus so fast.

  2. Statistics by Lord+Grey · · Score: 4, Insightful
    One virus or Trojan every three years?

    I can stand that.

    --
    // Beyond Here Lie Dragons
    1. Re:Statistics by xen0side · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Uh... no. Yes is OS X was the most used OS yes there would be many more security holes found but to say it would have the same virus problem as windows is a joke. All this thing is is an app with the .app extension hidden, and even for it to do something destructive to the the system it would need the password, like any virus would on OS X would. SO no there wouldn't be as many virus for OS X if OS X had the market share as windows, windows is insecure by design.

    2. Re:Statistics by ALpaca2500 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      that doesnt make any sense. even if there were 10 times as many mac users than there are now, it would still have the exact same number of security holes. if wondows had 10% of the users it does now, it would still have the same number of security holes.

      now, the number of these holes that are exploited might depend on the number of people using the product. but tend to believe that the reason more holes are found in microsoft products is because more holes exist in it, and they are easier to find. not because it has more users.

    3. Re:Statistics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      I chose the Trojan over the virus. My bloodwork came back negative, so it seems to have worked.

    4. Re:Statistics by geoffspear · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I guarantee that if apache was the most widespread http server it would have as many security holes as IIS.

      Oh wait, it is. And it doesn't.

      --
      Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
    5. Re:Statistics by lobsterturd · · Score: 4, Funny

      That's why I have a 'toy' computer as well that runs Windows to play games.

    6. Re:Statistics by Durandal64 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Utterly wrong. This is a CFM executable with no hidden extension. Double-clicking on it from the Finder will execute it, but dragging the file on to iTunes will only play the MP3 stream inside the file. Mail.app, however, correctly identifies it as an executable when you try to open it from inside an email.

    7. Re:Statistics by SnappleMaster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That may well be true.

      The other popular view may also be true: that there are more windows viruses because it is a juicier target. And by juicier I mean larger userbase so a successful virus will have a greater impact, which means more "karma" for the virus creator.

      I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle (as it usually is).

      HOWEVER, we MUST clearly differentiate trojans and viruses. Trojans are usually just a program that gets blasted out with the knowledge that some percentage of idiots will run it. Once the user runs something on any OS the jig is up. Trojans do not necessarily indicate security flaws, although some trojans on Windows have exploited the OS/products to make themselves appear more tempting to the target users.

      --
      Be happy. Nothing else matters.
    8. Re:Statistics by cappadocius · · Score: 4, Funny
      That's also about how long it takes for you to get new games, isn't it?

      Wait, we have games now? Shit, there goes my productivity.

      --

      omnia tua castra sunt nobis

  3. Conspiracy? by Kris+Thalamus · · Score: 5, Funny

    Does my speculation about the RIAA's involvement in the creation of an MP3 trojan put me in the tin foil hat crowd?

    1. Re:Conspiracy? by Anm · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Does my speculation about the RIAA's involvement in the creation of an MP3 trojan put me in the tin foil hat crowd?

      Actually, my bets on on the Mac AntiVirus camp. They've been hurting a lot more recently. ;)

  4. Nothing to see here. Move along. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    So what?

    Mac OS X can have trojans. Mac OS X can have viruses. Mac OS X can have security issues.

    It's just a lot harder to exploit all of these things on Mac OS X for numerous logistical, technical, and statistical reasons.

    It is a real concept. There is an example of the trojan, or "virus" (sic), here: http://www.scoop.se/~blgl/virus.mp3.sit

    However, it seems that this may be at best questionable, as the "proof of concept" is nothing more than a standalone CFM application that has been given a creator type of 'APPL' (recognized by Mac OS X as a Carbon application), but with the file extension '.mp3', the standard mp3 icon, and the contents of an mp3 (which Mac OS X displays to the user an mp3). While the file does indeed appear at first glance to be an ordinary mp3, what can admittedly be potentially dangerous, it is in fact an application.

    Additionally, as a CFM application, the file needs to be transported in such a way as to keep the resource fork intact, massively reducing its utility.

    I predict a future security update with disallow this behavior...

    This does not change the fact that Mac OS X is fundamentally and philosophically far more secure than alternatives.

    1. Re:Nothing to see here. Move along. by venicebeach · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So what? Mac OS X can have trojans. Mac OS X can have viruses. Mac OS X can have security issues.

      Yes, of course we all know that OS X can have viruses, the point is that until now it basically hasn't had any. At least nothing that I've heard of or had to worry about. Now I will have to think twice about opening random mp3 files which somehow appear on my hard drive (?).

    2. Re:Nothing to see here. Move along. by Daniel_Staal · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's news because it is the first Mac OS X specific virus/trojan in existence. No one claimed OS X was immune to them, just that they hadn't occurred yet. Now they have. That fact is news.

      --
      'Sensible' is a curse word.
    3. Re:Nothing to see here. Move along. by QJB · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The preview of the file shows no play functionality like an ordinary mp3 file but reads 'Kind: Application'. It may mislead users but it is simply spotted (with the naked eye).

    4. Re:Nothing to see here. Move along. by dipipanone · · Score: 4, Informative

      That was an apache vulnerability, not a core OS vulnerability.

      Strictly speaking, you could say the same thing about the various SSH exploits that have been around as well, but I don't think I've ever owned a Linux box that would be useable without it. And you can't have it both ways. If Linux is a useable operating system, then it *isn't* just a kernel any more. It's the whole ball of wax.

      This Mac OSX worm is a very different animal.

      It's different in the sense that nobody has ever actually been infected by it. However, the existence of this particular design flaw has been known to pretty well everyone familiar with OSX since OSX was in beta. The decision to remove the old-style resource fork metadata and use Windows style file typing was actually the subject of enormously heated opposition for this very reason.

    5. Re:Nothing to see here. Move along. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, it's been all of these things for what, about thirteen years now? When exactly are you expecting this massive wave of exploitation to take place?

    6. Re:Nothing to see here. Move along. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's installed on everyone's machine, it's very hard to remove

      How exactly is dragging it into the trash to remove it hard?

      it's not open source

      Yeah, like that matters, when you consider the massive numbers of WMA and Real viruses.

      it autoplays content on the web

      Easy to turn off in preferences.

      it's a big black box waiting to be exploited.

      It's been around for what, a decade? I guess we'll have to wait some more for this particular exploit to happen.

      Thanks for playing, please try again...

  5. Damn, viruses on OS X by CkB_Cowboy · · Score: 5, Funny

    .. and I just bought a G4 PowerBook too!

    That's it, I'm selling this, maybe I'll get one of those Sparc laptops instead..

    - Cowboy

    --
    what, what?
  6. Nothing to see here, move along... by faux+plastic · · Score: 5, Informative

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8 &oe=UTF-8&safe=off&frame=right&th=631707378ffe9292 &seekm=blgl-5D750C.02150821032004%40news.bahnhof.s e#link6 It appears that this is merely a proof of concept virus, hence, it is utterly benign. It was not made with any malicious intent, but to demonstrate one way that OS X could be exploited. The discussion group is concerned with making OS X more secure, not less. Somehow, Intego got wind of it and blew it out of proportion, but I suppose it is theoretically possible that future viruses could be modeled on it. However I'm sure that Apple could, even more quickly, release a security update that fixes this.

    1. Re:Nothing to see here, move along... by lobsterturd · · Score: 5, Informative
  7. Well, by MuckSavage · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I suppose I'll start to panic as soon as apple acknowledges it, rather than take the word of a company trying to sell me anti-virus software.

  8. That's it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'm switching to Windows!

  9. Mac? MP3? by Deraj+DeZine · · Score: 5, Funny

    What kind of OS X user would be caught dead using such ancient, PC-originated technology (and I use that term loosely) as an MP3?

    It's bad enough that they'll be shunned by all their iPod-wearing, dual-CPU-owning, Mac cabal member friends, but now their computer get pwned? Talk about kicking them while they're down.

    --
    True story.
    1. Re:Mac? MP3? by SHEENmaster · · Score: 4, Funny

      What kind of UNIX user would be caught dead using such ancient, PC-originated technology (and I use that term loosely) as a file extension? It's bad enough that they'll be shunned by all their intercal-coding, 8-way-server-owning, Sun cabal member friends, but now their distant cousin's computer get pwned? Talk about kicking them while they're down.

      --
      You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
  10. How does this work? by dartmouth05 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What this article doesn't mention is how (or if) the code gets around the normal OS X restrictions requiring that one enters an administrator's password. Even if applications can be hidden, I question the amount of damage they can do... Surely nobody will enter an admin password requested by an ".mp3" file.

    Besides, this isn't a virus so much as a security flaw. Why pay $60 for software when Apple will surely release a patch soon?

    Oh, and for all the PC assholes who are currently saying "In your face, mac zealots" or whatnot--nobody claims that OS X is bulletproof--no computer system is. Nevertheless, it seems to be a lot more secure than, say, Windows, which has security problems all of the time.

    1. Re:How does this work? by bbdd · · Score: 5, Funny

      Surely nobody will enter an admin password requested by an ".mp3" file.

      you must not have met the users on my network. :-)

    2. Re:How does this work? by squiggleslash · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Well, if I may make the obvious point, you don't have to have an administrator password to do damage to someone's files on a Mac or any other system. If you needed the administrator password to do so, then editing your own documents would be a bureaucratic nightmare.

      I don't care that much whether some app is able to delete /System/Library/CoreServices/BootX - I mean, it'll be a pain if it happens, but that file is part of the operating system and therefore recoverable with nothing more than a re-install.

      The files I have that I don't want it deleting are the files I made myself, either directly (my novel - ok, I back it up, but...) or indirectly (my AAC/MP3 collection - yes, they're "recoverable" but not without literally a week or more of work sitting over the CD drive, rewriting lousy CDDB entries.)

      Those files are the same files that need no administrator password to corrupt them. And that is why anyone who tells you that Unix, Linux, or OS X are inherently secure needs to be taken out and shot.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    3. Re:How does this work? by Kenja · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Every Windows user that would click the "yes I want to execute this email attachment becuase I'm brain dead" dialog in Outlook will do the same if they had a Macintosh.

      --

      "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
  11. Ahh.. Classic catches up to us :P by __aavhli5779 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Heh... Interesting that the first trojan horse/virus yet to be seen for OS X uniquely exploits the discordance between the "Classic" pre-OS X way of specifying file types (File Type/Creator metadata) and the new, inherited-from-Windows, file extension method.

    The basic gist of this trojan from what I've read so far (there is very little information aside from what Intego has on their own web site) is that it is a file with type AAPL (executable application) but with an .mp3 extension... the Finder thus displays an MP3 icon for it yet launches it as an application when the user double-clicks.

    What this basically comes down to, then, is the Finder making the wrong decision as to how to present the file to the user. Specifically that it presents it in one way, but acts upon it (when double-clicked) in the other. Whether it should first obey the deprecated file type metadata or the file extension is left to be argued about... what's certain is that it should always behave with the file the same way it presents it. I predict a bug fix for this will be in OS X shortly.

  12. Re:Ironic the Intego released a solution fast enou by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Somebody on macnn.com pointed out this: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8 &oe=UTF-8&safe=off&frame=right&th=631707378ffe9292 &seekm=blgl-5D750C.02150821032004%40news.bahnhof.s e#link6

  13. Hoax or response to proof of concept? by PrimeWaveZ · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I have my doubts about this trojan, as I opined on my website at destination-life.com, but there is one problem: this proof of concept at this link:

    At Google Groups

    I opened the file in BBEdit, and it appears that there is in fact executable code in the file, but it doesn't appear evident to me how the binary code would be executed if the audio file is opened inside of a music player.

    Hopefully this ends up being a hoax, or at least some more details come out soon.

    1. Re:Hoax or response to proof of concept? by HeghmoH · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's not executed when you open it in a music player, it's executed when you open it in Finder.

      I haven't looked at this trojan, but I participated in a theoretical discussion of the possibility on usenet a couple of weeks ago (interesting timing, that) and the theory isn't that strange anyway.

      The way it works is that it's actually a full-blown application. It's a Carbon CFM application, which is stored as a single file. There's a resource in the resource fork of the file which tells the OS where the actual executable code can be found; this allows the application's code to be embedded inside a larger chunk of data. The whole thing is then typed APPL with the HFS+ metadata filetype, but given a .mp3 extension; apparently the HFS+ filetype takes precedence over the file's extension on OS X.

      If you open the file from your music player, it's a real MP3 that just happens to have a bunch of junk (trojan code) in an ID3 tag. It plays, nothing else happens. If you double-click it in the Finder, though, the Finder sees that it's an application and launches it, and then you're doomed. The app can do whatever it wants at that point. Presumably one of the very first things it does is open itself with your MP3 player so as to give the appearance of functioning like a regular MP3 file, and then it can go around infecting or deleting files at will.

      This isn't a particularly dangerous trojan. Because of the dependence on HFS+ metadata and resource forks, the app can't be transported raw, it has to be encoded. So you absolutely cannot be infected by double-clicking an MP3 you got from Kazaa. You have to download an archive file, like a Stuffit archive, a disk image, a .zip file with Mac metadata extensions, an xtar archive, a MacBinary file, etc., then decode it, then double-click the MP3 inside. Since there is basically no legitimate reason to encode an MP3 with one of those archivers when transmitting it over the internet, this trojan is extremely easy to avoid; don't double-click MP3s that were extracted from Stuffit archives and similar places.

      For a successful internet worm to result from this, the recipients have to do two steps. First they would have to decompress the file that was sent to them, then they'd have to find the results and open it. Of course, we know from the example of Windows worms that enough users will go through the trouble of opening an encrypted .zip with a password supplied in the e-mail and then running the contents to enable a worm to spread, so it's not entirely implausible. I'd like to think that Mac users have a higher average intelligence when it comes to virus safety, but I'm not too confident.

      --
      Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
  14. Re:Ironic the Intego released a solution fast enou by eltoyoboyo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    We needed an OS X virus just to liven things up! The ratio of viruses in the wild to lab viruses leads one to believe that the Anti virus companies created some to keep them in business. The WildList should be enough to keep all the Antivirus companies on their toes now.

    --
    Have you Meta Moderated t
  15. Ogg? by goMac2500 · · Score: 5, Funny

    This virus sucks unless it has ogg support. Jeez! Mac OS X is so lame..

  16. Time to Stop Complacency by Spencerian · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Trojans aren't new in the Mac world, of course. There have been viruses made for the original Mac OS, but very, very few in comparison to, say, MS-DOS and Windows: Approximately 50 Mac OS viruses compared to 20,000+ viruses and their ilk in the Windows world.

    The method in which this trojan infects isn't new: Windows viruses often hide their true extension in the same way as this empty-payload Mac OS X trojan.

    What is significant is what a payload-laden trojan could do the today's Mac OS world. As a tech, I get to see a fair audience of Macs in use and what software they use. The very concerning part is that very few (my estimate: less than 1 in 50) Macs use ANY kind of antivirus software.

    Not that you can't find any: Aside from Intego (who make a fine firewall as well as their virus products), you can get Norton AntiVirus from Symantec and Virex from Network Associates. Yet, most of us don't own any AV software.

    That's bad for two reasons. One: While most Windows malware we Mac users may receive by mail are harmless to our Mac OS X systems, we remain Typhoid Mary-esque carriers to other PCs. Two: Our complacency in saying that "Macs don't get viruses" does not ensure that we will not experience one later.

    That "later" is now.

    Further, the "security through obscurity" protection is gone with the move to OS X. It's just a UNIX OS now, no longer a relatively-closed OS, which means there are more people who are UNIX-savvy who can create malware than before. (Fortunately that also means there are plenty of Good Guys who can spot this stuff before Apple or AV vendors are made aware.)

    While I doubt there will be lots of new Mac attacks soon, I would not wait until one shows up with a nasty payload. Buy some AV software and keep puttering along. I'm sure there's some ass out there with too much time on their hands who, like the guy who took the Word Macro "Concept" virus, added a payload and sent it on its way, who will love to make some pitiful Mac users suffer.

    Also, consider creating a regular user account, which cannot install software. In the event that you do open something with a payload on that account, hopefully OS X's permissions will stop any attempts to change any file or program except those in that account's home folder. Thank God for the UNIX permissions system.

    --
    Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
  17. Re:need more explanation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    The resource fork is a remnant of the pre-OS X days. Pre-Mac OS X files, including applications, had two "forks": data and resource. When Mac OS X was created, it had the ability to run its own native applications, as well as two types of "Carbon" applications, Carbon being an API that allowed portability of applications using a subset of the old Mac OS programming APIs. One type of Carbon application, CFM, uses a resource fork for, among other things, file metadata. One of these pieces of metadata is something called Type and Creator. "Type", in this case, is set to APPL, and thus identifies itself as an application. While OS X decides to display the file as an MP3, the launching behavior is that of an application - just an oversight. The issue I was referring to was the resource fork must be kept intact in order for the file to still work - and any type of binary transfer WITHOUT special handling or compression (e.g. StuffIt, MacBinary, etc) will strip the resource fork and render this little "trojan" useless.

    Also, if you knew the first thing about Mac OS X, you'd readily admit that the design philosophy and fundamentals of the OS do make it far, far more secure than, say, Windows.

  18. About freaking time!!! by toupsie · · Score: 4, Funny

    On of the many woes of being a Mac user is that we do not have the multitude of viral applications that Windows users have. Now that we have our first trojan, we are on the path of being like Windows users. However, it is my fear like most Windows applications, we are going to have to wait months and months before we get our next one...

    --
    Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
  19. Re:Ironic the Intego released a solution fast enou by harlows_monkeys · · Score: 4, Insightful
    It is quite ironic that a company selling you a fix happens to find the problem and releases the solution for the low price of 59.95

    You find it ironic that a problem is found by people who make their living looking for such problems???

  20. Parent not flamebait by 0x0d0a · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have a hard time seeing why the parent is flamebait, especially when given a smile.

    He *is* right in that what you have here is an honest-to-God architectural security problem with the Mac OS. It isn't a coding bug or a stupid user -- Apple clearly defines how to determine file type in their specs, which will now need to be revised.

    And I think he's pretty accurate in claiming that this *does* embarass a lot of people that were making semi-bogus security claims about the Mac OS.

    Had he said "Yes, now we can all tell that Mac OS X security sucks", then sure, he'd be flamebait. But he was spot-on accurate in his statement. Modding him down because you don't like the truth of something he's saying is just silly -- a religion, a text editor, or a computing platform that cannot stand up for itself on its own merits should not have you trying to suppress valid criticisms of it. If it can, it doesn't *need* you trying to suppress valid criticisms, because those are minor compared to the benefits of the platform.

  21. Exactly right by Lord+Grey · · Score: 5, Informative
    See Muckraking, the PC Way, written by Richard Forno (former Chief Security Officer at Network Solutions), which was referenced by Slashdot earlier. Excerpt:
    Contrary to his article, the small market segment held by Apple doesn't automatically make the Mac OS less vulnerable to attack or exploitation. Any competent security professional will tell you that "security through obscurity" - what Lance is referring to toward the end of his article - doesn't work. In other words, if, as he suggests, Mac OS was the dominant operating system, its users would still enjoy an inherently more secure and trustworthy computing environment even if the number of attacks against it increased. That's because unlike Windows, Mac OS was designed from the ground up with security in mind. Is it totally secure? Nothing will ever be totally secure. But when compared to Windows, Mac OS is proving to be a significantly more reliable and (exponentially) more secure computing environment for today's users, including this security professional.
    This point has been debated often in the past.
    --
    // Beyond Here Lie Dragons
  22. Re:This is only the beginning, get used to that by Rick+Zeman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    One virus or Trojan every three years? I can stand that.

    Can you understand that past performance does not indicate future performance?

    Also your sample size is questionable. Classic Mac OS' history is irrelevant to Mac OS X. Mac OS X is a far more interesting and potentially lucrative target. It combines a highly capable Unix environment (home turf/holy grail for hackers) with a usually unsophisticated (wrt security) users who have no admin to watch over them. This is only the beginning, get used to that.


    OS X has been out for three years. This is the first trojan/virus (giving this the benefit of the doubt). Ergo, 1 every 3 years.

    Yeah, there's no admin to watch over them/us. What's your point? The system will protect the user as much as it can (have to authenticate to install/write to system areas, or create sockets on privileged ports). It's a bit more secure than Windows where a user needs a nanny standing over her slapping her wrist and saying "don't do that" or "don't open that". If it does become a target, it's more hardened. It's not like Windows saying "take me, big boy."

  23. Re:need more explanation by benedict · · Score: 4, Informative

    Type and creator are not stored in the resource
    fork nor the data fork. You could think of them
    as a third, fixed-size fork. At least, that's what
    Siracusa of Ars Technica wrote.

    --
    Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems."
  24. Re:Ironic the Intego released a solution fast enou by edgar_is_good · · Score: 4, Funny

    No, no, that wasn't a virus, just 10.3.2. (Note to would be flamers - I have a mac and love it!)

  25. Don't Have Permission to Open by Wingsy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I downloaded this sample virus and tried to open it, but Panther told me I didn't have permission to open it. So, unless you're logged as admin it looks like it ain't gonna work.

    --
    If I didn't have absolutely NOTHING to do, I wouldn't be here.
  26. How it works and why it isn't really an exploit by santiago · · Score: 5, Informative

    The file is a CFM application. As others have pointed out, this means that it has a resource fork which it needs in order to be able to run. Thus, it must be downloaded as a compressed file. If the resource fork is stripped, it is harmless, as the payload will never be executed.

    Its name ends in ".mp3", and the included icon is copied from an iTunes MP3 file, but its type code is APPL, an application. The data fork is a valid MP3 with PowerPC executable code inside the ID3 tags. When given to iTunes or another MP3 player, it simply plays the included sounds without executing code. When double-clicked on from the Finder, the surrounding bits of MP3 file appear to be ignored and the code is executed. The payload for the proof-of-concept displays a dialog box, then tells iTunes to play the file itself, presumably via AppleScript.

    When double-clicked, it shows up in the dock as an application, though this could be suppressed in an actual hostile trojan just like many utility programs do. In the Finder, if one is using column view, it is identified as an Application instead of an MP3 File, and its icon is shown instead of a QuickTime-style playback bar for previewing the contents.

    In terms of an actual exploit, the only thing going on that is even possibly questionable at an OS level is the presence of other stuff in the data fork before the Joy!peffpwpc tag. I am not certain if this is allowed in the definition of what a PEF executable is supposed to look like. Aside from that, there is nothing else that is tricking the OS into doing something it shouldn't do, only legally included information that is deceptive to a user who is not looking carefully at things.

  27. Re:Ironic the Intego released a solution fast enou by rworne · · Score: 5, Informative

    NeXT did it for a good reason:

    NeXTSTEP ran on four different hardware platforms and had fat binaries. Within the foo.app directory, there'd be foo-moto, foo-386, foo-sparc, and foo-hpux binaries. The OS would then attempt to execute the appropriate binary for the hardware platform the OS was running on.

    OS X uses the .app directory so all the resources, bitmaps, and supporting files are in that one directory. That is why I can reinstall OS X and have MS Office X and all my other applications still work without reinstalling everything. I suppose they could still do fat binaries as well if they ever decided to do so.

    --
    I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit
  28. WHAT??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Average Windows users know command lines?! What kind of fucked up world do you live in?

    The average Windows user doesn't know how to map a network drive; doesn't know how to properly unmount a USB Storage Device in Win2k; doesn't know how to CANCEL PRINT JOBS if there isn't an annoying window from the bullshit software that pops up when you print.

    The average Windows user doesn't know how to format a disk; doesn't know how to look at a full mail header, doesn't know how to Mail Merge.

    The average Windows user doesn't differentiate between hard disk and "memory"; doesn't know how to clear the Recent Documents; doesn't know how to change their password.

    The average Windows user hasn't used net send, ping, or even winipcfg. They don't know where to change the resolution on their monitor; they only change the Background from a right-click menu in Internet Explorer.

    They have never intentionally used an F-Key that wasn't modded to do something special on their multimedia keyboard. They have no idea that Ctrl-F6 will switch between panes, so you don't need to click back and forth when designing a table in Access.

    They don't know that Print Screen copies their screen to the Clipboard. Hell, they don't know what the Clipboard is.

    The average Windows user doesn't know what Temp files are; has no concept of file permissions, can't make a Pivot Table; doesn't know how to uninstall programs; Has at least two things in their system tray they can't identify; has never performed a full backup of their data; and certainly has never touched their Registry.

    Even tech support often doesn't know enough about the command line, like using "~1" doesn't mean you don't need the extension, or that Program Folder 8.1.1 becomes Progra~1.1 or that you can type the whole damn thing in quotes.

    Maybe ten years ago the average Windows user knew something about the command line, but not anymore.

  29. Vaguely reminds me of extension masquerading by cgenman · · Score: 4, Funny

    This kind of reminds me of adding extensions to the resource fork of otherwise innocuous system files in system 7-9.

    One April Fools Day I installed a completely juvenile little extension called "Mouseturds" on my roommate's computer. But inside of "Mouseturds" I inserted an extension that reversed all of the text in the system. Inside of another file in the system (I believe it was directly in the Finder), I installed a second instance of the text-flipping extension.

    When he first started using his computer, all of the text looked normal, but his mouse kept doing this terribly juvenile thing. "Cute, really cute." He said, removing that extension. You can't imagine his befuddlement when upon rebooting all of his text was sdrawkcab, simply for having cleaned his system. In the next few hours he drew up all sorts of crazy theories about dependencies, mounting extensions from the trash can, automatically installing programs when something is removed, and a mythical hidden second system folder. I didn't have the heart to tell him to watch the extensions list on the startup screen more carefully, but I didn't have the jaw if he decided to start swinging. He was not at all amused.

    Moral of the story: No one thing is ever one thing on an apple system.

    Other moral of the story: Never take a smart-alec joker as a roommate.

  30. Re:Ironic the Intego released a solution fast enou by Mr+Pippin · · Score: 4, Informative

    In NeXTStep V1.0( and I think 2.0), the entire application was stored in a Mach-O format file. Ultimately, there were resource issues involved in trying to keep the entire application and it's resources in a single Mach-O file, which resulted in this being splitup into a diretcory containing the resources, and the Mach-O file retaining the executable data required by the system loader.

    That's not all that different from how classic Mac OS apps were stored in different resource areas of a file.

  31. Re:Ironic the Intego released a solution fast enou by Jesrad · · Score: 5, Informative

    The Intego Virus Barrier software just flags as "infected" any CFM executable whose name ends in a common file extension... which is why it STUPIDLY flagged as viruses the BMP, PCX and PNG plugins for Photoshop Elements. Which means it does not even check for a dot and something else before the file extension.

    Proof (jpg)

    Can you say "crappy" ? I'm sure you could.

    --
    Maybe we deserve this world ?
  32. Re:Ironic the Intego released a solution fast enou by kabloom · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I seem to recall that common Macintosh viruses were things like MDEF (menu definition) viruses or MBDF (menubar definition) viruses or WDEF (window definition) viruses. These are the names of certain kinds of code resources on Macintosh systems that could be used to define a custom look-and-feel in certain places where necessary. To hook up an MDEF virus and get it to execute, you would insert an MDEF resource into the program (*very* easy to do), and then modify one of the MENU resources to use that MDEF to draw itself. (similarly for MBARs with MBDFs and WINDs with WDEFs). There were also certain resource numbers you could choose to hide the corresponding system resources while running the program, and you wouldn't have to do anything else to change the program.

  33. Re:This is only the beginning, get used to that by Feanturi · · Score: 4, Interesting

    and to see comments like "the average windows user can barely tie their shoelaces" bullshit irritates me. To be quite honest, computers to the average joe are scary. Just because they don't know how to mount a drive or know what shl ax,1 means doesn't mean their stupid.

    I understand there's a fear factor, I work face to face with the average windows user every day, in their home. Not knowing how to mount a drive is one thing, very forgivable. Not even eyeroll-worthy. It's when they get in a panic because their sound card 'stopped working' only to discover that they had been turning the TONE control rather than VOLUME on their speakers. Now that's sad. I don't say *most* average users are like this (well, not without data to support me), but they do certainly abound.

    I hate OS wars too. But the fact is, the average Linux user (oh, I should mention, I'm not one) is a Linux user partly because they are comfortable with having to know some things about their machine in order to use it. You know, Old School, like back in the day when you simply didn't HAVE a computer if you weren't interested in delving into it. They would tend to be the sort of person that enjoys having to learn something in order to make good use of it. I believe that the majority of people do *not* want to keep filling their heads. To many people that's what school was for and that part of their life is done. It's sad, but it's a choice made for the sake of comfort. I can respect it that way, there's a lot of other things they know perhaps.

    I did an install once for a Lawyer (an intelligent man, one must presume), who became upset when he discovered that our high-speed access advertized as "One click and you're there" (or something) wasn't true. Because you have to double-click a desktop icon (to open a browser or whatever) he was almost going to cancel the service. He was getting installed purely on the pressure of friends, as he had gone years without email. And he was mad as hell about the whole thing. He got really mad when I didn't have paper documentation for Internet Explorer to leave with him. I pointed out where the Help was, and that just seemed to piss him off more. He *resented* being forced to learn something new, and I tried to tell him that anything worthwhile requires some learning. I asked him if he had ALWAYS known how to drive a car. No of course not, at some point he had to do a bit of reading, get some experience, do some practice. From the look in his eye at this point I realized I was traipsing into sass-mouth territory and just dropped it. The computer was given to him by a friend, and thank every god that it wasn't running Linux. ;)

    There's no fixing them, but at least they pay us to fix their stuff for them.

    Can't we all just get along?

  34. Re:Ironic the Intego released a solution fast enou by rworne · · Score: 4, Informative

    NS 3.3 ran on four platforms. That was the last version I used, and I distinctly remember it. There were even NeXTSTEP utilities that "thinned" out these fat applications and only left the thin executable you needed.

    --
    I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit
  35. Re:Ironic the Intego released a solution fast enou by MarcQuadra · · Score: 5, Informative

    Sorry to burst your bubble, but the whole 'app is really a directory' thing is a SOLUTION to the 'resource fork' storage problem. And it allows for cleanly implemented multi-platform 'fat' binaries. Apple's Classic fat binaries were kludgy, the CODE resource fork held the 68K binary and the data fork held the PowerPC binary, hardly extensible.

    I've got an OSX install on purely UFS, and sure enough, it allows you to pack x86 and PPC binaries (or multiple PPC/X86 binaries, for optimization/bitness) into the same *.app so you can have one application file that executes on multiple architectures. It might not be Apple's hacked-up old kludgy way to get a 'fat binary' but it's effectively the same result but done MUCH cleaner and capable of living on many diverse file-systems.

    Imagine how cool it would be to have ONE shared 'applications' folder mounted read-only on all your clients, the x86 clients execute the x86 code from camino.app and the PPC machines execute the PPC code from the same place. It would be an administrator's utopia!

    --
    "Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails