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Microsoft Authorized Refurbishers
An anonymous reader writes "Microsoft has announced a program to 'establish a vibrant community of computer refurbishers across 133 countries in Europe, the Middle East and Africa who will be authorized to re-install its Windows operating system in donated pre-used PCs destined for schools, charities, non-profit organizations and under-served communities...Microsoft will provide re-installation of Windows 98 Second Edition and Windows 2000 Professional in over 18 languages. The refurbished PCs will be accompanied by a Certificate of Authenticity (COA) and a special End User Licence as evidence of a legally installed operating system.' XBruticusX submits a story on news.com about the program.
IIRC, 98SE is supported until '06.
"It's a dog eat dog world out there, and I'm wearing Milk-Bone underwear."- Norm (from Cheers)
Since the license is non transferable (a rule I thinks needs legal review, but that's how it stands) this is an unfortunate necessity. I have worked with Microsoft in the past, and it was difficult to get a relicense approved, even for non profits. Instead they wanted to sell new licenses at a discounted rate, but still at a cost that makes the "donated" hardware a liability rather than an asset.
Sig under construction since 1998.
Windows 9x (95, 98, ME) are 16/32-bit hybrids. None of these are a pure 16-bit OS. Windows 3.11 and below, however, are.
Microsoft already allows schools to "re-install" Win 98 and 2000 (sp3) on donated, older computers in the US. One registers, gets install media from Microsoft, tracks use, etc.
What does this do to the possible use of Linux in making older PCs useful in a school setting?
There's already plenty of ways to bring those machines online legally.
They're called Linux distributions. there's no need to pay more Microsoft tax. Imagine, now you don't need to pay the tax once, you must pay it twice or three times!
If he explores all forms and substances Straight homeward to their symbol-essences; He shall not die.
The Microsoft Authorised Refurbishers (MAR) Programme FAQ addresses this issue:
As for the "adminstrative fee," the FAQ explains:
To answer other questions, people may want to check out:
Microsoft Authorised Refurbishers Programme.
Only Women Bleed (Sex, Sharia remix)
It may be common sense, but the rule is that if a machine transfers ownership *neither* the original owner, *nor* the new owner can legally use the software without a "transfer of ownership". Cisco most recently decided that IOS (the software that runs from firmware on Cisco routers) did *not* transfer with the hardware, and you have to pay them *full hit* to use the hardware you just bought, because to their mind, you don't legally have a license to the *software* that runs it.
Sig under construction since 1998.
They certainly do in Karachi. I'm not sure about Djibouti, but they, like Pakistan, are WIPO signatories, so I'd say there's probably a small BSA lobby there too.
Basically if there's anywhere PCs are being used - refurbished or otherwise - you can be damn sure the BSA is right there.
Devil is in details. OEM version that came with the machine is NOT transferable by the owner (according to MS, that is); it is only licensed to be used by that machine. But whether it's also bound to person who owned it.... that's another matter; I don't think it could.
As to buying the box, that's different story. That may or may not be transferable.
As to MS stock; there are lots of online brokers that can help you purchase MSFT shares. I don't want to -- they are not going to be stellar performers, since at best growth could be solid, their growth in sector is limited. Bit like most other big corporations; solid, sound, fairly low-risk; but also not-that-hot prospects for growth. Kind of your retirement stocks. And since there are plenty of more interesting companies to own, I don't even need to consider moral dilemma of ownership I would have.
Emerging 3rd world countries using refurbed hardware has been a huuuge market for Linux in the past two years. It could profit M$ greatly just to slow this adoptation down.
Xenon, where's my money? -Borno
Not really the case. The license is transferrable as long as there's a COA to prove it's there. The problem is that a great many "retired" PC's are actually the result of someone keeping their software and doing a "hardware upgrade" that consisted of replacing the entire box. And yes, Microsoft does allow you to install their stuff on a new box if you're junking the old one. Of course, you don't necessarily tell 'em you're taking the old hardware and redeploying it as a Bering Leaf firewall or something like that.
That's actually not a half bad deal. Recently Sun has been rather loudly reminding people that the RTU on Solaris does **NOT** go with one of their boxes when it changes hands. (Just an example.)
"It is a shame that the refurbished computers can't be loaded with low cost Lindows"
I'll tell you why they can't as until recently I worked at a nonprofit MAR member. People who run the local community center / church / shelter / adult day care / whatever nonprofit have NO IDEA about computers other than they've heard that Microsoft Windows is what they're supposed to have. At $5 per MAR license or $0 for [insert distro here] Linux, they'd rather pay. There is no amount of patient explaination that will change their minds, I assure you as one who has tried. They also want to pay for MS Office rather than OpenOffice for the same reason. Never heard of it? Don't want it and don't want to know! And all of my persuasions were based on cost and performance on older computers, not a fanatical open source agenda.
Microsoft can try to hedge every single bet from here on, and still I think it's only a matter of time before Linux beats them in every market.
Si tacuisses philosophus mansisses. If you had kept quiet, you would have remained a philosopher.
Computers donated by large companies are typically three years old and the MAR program upgrades the software to newer versions of Windows that donated PCs can support, for a nominal charge that covers materials and program operations.
Giving away? Doesnt look like it from here.
emt 377 emt 4
Actually... Even Windows 3.11 had tiny bits of 32-bit code in... (Im talking Wfw3.11 here..)
It had 32-bit disk access, 32-bit TCP stack, and a few other things. Of course with the Win32s (remember those?) it had a whole lot of 32-bit code.
Not that I am nitpicking here...
Yes, but the computers in Africa and Asia had to be shipped there somehow, by somebody.
I buy used computers at auction and resell them on eBay. I find deals like 80 Pentium II machines that I get by the skid for $40. If I, as an American, tried to refurbish those machines and donate them to an overseas charity, I would find myself in lots of trouble if I didn't ship them as bare machines. And shipping them as bare machines raises the likelihood that they'll end up as nothing, since I'm handing off systems that aren't going to do a single thing out-of-the-box, which makes it less likely anybody at the other end will have the know-how and resources to bring up an OS on them. So if there's a clear 'legitimate' path for the machines to get Windows installed on them for use overseas, and I can see to it that they're installed properly and ready-to-go, I am more likely to find it worthwhile to participate in such a program.
resigned
As one of our volunteers is doing, developing Tetun versions for East Timor....such developments are actually MUCH more likely in Linux. Computerbank Victoria is shipping Farsi boxes....I would suggest to you there would be more possibility of FOSS than commercial software for such limited 'customer base'....
Nothing - well thats something.
Microsoft is really unclear on this;
If you have an OEM install of Windows, it MUST be sold with the machine. You can't sell the bare machine and reinstall WIndows on your new computer.
If you buy a second-hand machine, apparently you don't ever get Windows with it and are supposed to buy a new version.
It looks to me like someone is trying to sell at least one new windows licence every time a second-hand machine gets sold or donated.
455fe10422ca29c4933f95052b792ab2
Don't give up just yet. Do you know about the RULE Project? (an up to date yet lightweight version of RH made for just this sort of application) And then there are the distros like Crux, Peanut and Vector etc. My own systems were stock standard Mandrake, all I did was select the appropriate packages. In fact I'm still using those lightweight tools under Mdk 9.2 - IceWm/Sylpheed/Firebird/OO.org etc are all included on the install CDs. I'm not sure how hard it would be to create a customised reinstall-CD for such a system, but I am sure it can be done. You can see examples of a lightweight Mdk at The Lofat Linux page.
Don't give up completely yet!
There are people who agree with you, and are working on something similar to what you are asking for. Note that I am not an expert on this, but I thought it was an interesting and valid question, as I have a penchant for running Linux on old/retired (mostly non-x86 though) hardware. I am a professional sysadmin, so I don't think too much about getting something up and running on a weird machine, as that is what interests me. But I am also aware of the ease of use/installation issue, because I have supported Macs and Windows machines for years, and used Macs at home for years as well. You can't beat the "stick a CD in the drive, click a button, walk away, and when you come back there is a working system" model of installation.
Anyway, for a project that seems to be aligned to what you are asking for, you might want to check out the RULE project. I just found out about them recently, and I don't know how up to date they are, but they seem to have similar goals to what you have described. They claim that one of their installers can run in 12Mb of RAM, and the other in 6Mb. They install mainly a stock copy of Redhat, but with the package list stripped down to make a smaller profile. In addition, it appears that they are doing some work on the Kdrive X server, which is a very small XFree86 replacement.
Unfortunately, my lowest spec Intel machine (a p133 laptop), that I used to test and run things to make sure it worked on slower machines, was stolen when somebody broke into my house, so I have no way at the moment to test the RULE project out. Most of my other machines are SPARCs or Powerpcs, so they don't work with this project. You might want to check out your local Linux user group, as in my experience they are usually packrats, and have lots of old machines, and a willingness to help.
and getting after market RAM sticks is extremely cost prohibitive, and a lot of these older machines take very precise sticks
:)
:) (see below)
:)
God, Zogger... wish I'd known. I just sold a 8 lb box of 486/PI/II ram - a lot from prop machines like IBMs and gateways - on ebay. If I'd known you were looking I'd have just shipped it to you (didn't get enough money to pay for my time, only about fifty bucks)
Hey, man, don't feel bad. Before I moved I had tons of old equipment around, and that's how I learned to do stuff. Think of it as an education - in frustration - which is often the best teacher *grin* but seriously, sometimes just doing install after install on various machines is the best way to learn it. I'm biased - that's how I did it - but hey
That said, for a lot of older systems, you might try Damn Small Linux - which I use on my 486 laptop and which works quite well. It's a massively shrunken (50 mb image) version of Knoppix which is geared for min memory and cpu - and still has the hardware autodetect. Works pretty well (just doesn't update well, it's a mix of Debian stable, unstable and testing - so one has to be careful
You don't need a CDrom, either - if you can get the 50mb image on the hard drive, even if it's in a DOS partition, you can boot it from a DSL boot floppy, or with tomsrblt you can boot it over NFS if the network card is supported (takes a little tweaking tho in some configs)
DSL boots with fluxbox and a fb X and even on my 486 33mhz laptop is quite usable (I use the 486 to monitor the big machines from bed and surf slashdot occasionally
DSL is also quite nice for doing chroot to a debian install without having to go thru the crap of loading floppies - read the howtos there (too long to get into in this post)
BTW, none of the machines I've used DSL on have more than 16mb ram - more helps, but it's very usable without them, as long as you aren't using modern browsers (ram-hungry) or things like Open Office. To boot DSL requires only 8 mb ram if you're willing to deal with a lot of HD swap. Installation is easy - there's a script in the image that is really easy to run thru, all you need to know is what partition it needs to be on. Oh, and it pretty much installs and runs itself. Give it a try. I'd be interested in hearing your experiences (no, I'm not affiliated, I just think that Damn Small Linux rocks!)
Hey, good luck, man - seriously. Don't have time to play like that anymore, and I kind of miss it. If you'd like some non-RTFM help, post back - and we'll figure out a contact. I can't promise FT replies but I'll damn sure help you out - I'd consider it payback for those who helped me learning this.
Cheers!
SB
It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
Has it ever occured to you NOT to tell them it's not Windows? That's what I did with a friend of my mother's. I set everthing up so it was easy.. the Icon for Open Office said "Start Word Processor".....Replaced the Mozilla Icon with Netscape Icon....ect..
She's been using it for months...with no complaint. If they are igonrant enough to not know about LINUX...they are igorant enough not to understand why they need to run Windows....or even what windows IS! She wanted to add a digital camera to the system....It works without a hitch (MEPIS works great as a newbie distro!!)
Microsoft dumps unneeded Win98se licences on third world countries after the product is EOLed . . .
Always going forward, 'cause we can't find reverse.
You might want to look outside of Linux. I was attempting to do precisely what you're trying to do. And I found that Linux may not be the best choice. I came across muLinux...which is a lightweight Linux that's supposed to work off of a floppy. I never was able to install it on my test system and it seemed rather limited (as it fits on a handful of floppies).
So I searched for another solution and came across NetBSD. NetBSD will run on very old hardware...I installed it on an 80386-25MHz system with 4MB of RAM and a 100MB HD. The version I am using is fairly recent: 1.5.3. There's only two versions newer than this. Granted I am not using the GUI with this configuration but I suspect that given a Pentium class system with 16MB of RAM you could use the GUI. I intend to install the GUI on this system after bumping up the RAM another 4MB (the systems maximum) and increasing the HD to a 4GB model (which may be difficult as this system has fixed C/H/S...I cannot specify my own).
It's a very easy install...insert a 1.44MB floppy and restart the computer. The install was performed over the network via FTP...it's very easy to do.
Not saying this is the solution...but if it runs on an 80386 with 4MB of RAM a 16MB system would probably work.
Well, I can't point you to a specific distribution, but I would suggest mirroring MandrakeMove and building it from source for a little while. Why?
WEll, it's easy to get, and it's a CD-bootable distribution, so you can *experiment*.
I'd start with a 2.6 kernel, seriously. RAM being the biggest problem, what kind of video cards are we looking at? Make sure you can get the exact right drivers for those, and then you want to tone back the resolution and a few other things anyway. So go hack into your XF86Config file and make sure you're set to a lower resolution (800x600 at the most) and fewer colors (more than 256, but somewhere around 16bpp, or less). That'll get you a decent-looking desktop and cut down dramatically on your RAM requirements.
Now google for "video card RAM linux swap" and learn how to configure your system to use your video card RAM for swap space. That should improve performance quite a bit since your computer won't have to swap to hard drive every time, it can swap across the PCI bus which is a lot faster.
I can't think of any other easy way to bring down total memory usage. You do, of course, have to take a completely different approach to system services than you otherwise might take. You have to decide "which ones do I need to run and which ones can I live without/start on demand?". Every distribution, as far as I know, starts a bunch of services at boot time, and then they usually get swapped to hard disk until they're needed. Problem is, put your computer on a network and a number of those services will be constantly swapped in and out just from being polled on the network. SO eliminate every service you don't need.
Now, the reason you mirrored the MandrakeMove source tree is so you could make the modifications there, build the distribution, test it, and so forth, and ultimately post a patch or something so that other people can use your low-RAM MandrakeMove. ;)
Like what I said? You might like my music