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Plone 2.0: eWEEK Reviews, Raves About OS Software
securitas writes "eWEEK Labs' Jim Rapoza reviews open source Plone 2.0 Web publishing portal / content management software and raves about the Zope/Python-based system. He liked it so much it garnered an Analyst's Choice award, beating out a commercial portal suite, Traction's TeamPage 3.01, reviewed in the same issue. The Plone 2.0 release was mentioned a couple of weeks ago on Slashdot."
Once again, another example of why open source is the way to go. Think about how many websites out there wouldn't be the way they are without open source, and how many businesses rely on it.
I have no firsthand experience with Plone but would be curious to hear more about it.
Wireless News www.DailyWireless
... for eWeek seems to be "commercial support", doesn't matter cost, functionality, adaptability, extensibility and other obviously wrong ways to compare CMSs. It don't matter either if there are other ways of support that could eventually be far better than the standard commercial support they are used to, if it dont fit in they preconcepts, it is bad, period.
Is software really such a topic that someone (besides a marketing guy) would rave about it in an objective review? I mean, I've had some good software packages that were easy to use (relatively) and did the job well (compared to alternatives), but they weren't revolutionary and didn't make me run through the streets naked, Archimedes-style.
Any person who comes to me foaming at the mouth, "raving" about any type of software is going to have me taking a rather large grain of salty goodness.
except linux. Because this is /.
Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
Plone is not the only one open source CMS around. Tikiwiki, Typo3,Drupal and a lot more are open source, some even with commercial support (i.e. Typo3, comparing with it could be a bit more fair) if eWeek want that "feature" over every other possible functionality they could have.
Who needs these fantasy shmancy content-publishing systems? In my day, all you needed was vi and a telnet connection and you could update all your mostly-text html pages!
Still the quickest way to publish content and there sure as hell ain't no dupes! You can't beat that fact with a stack, eh ${SLASHDOT_EDITOR}?!
A raving techie is the kind you see at a late night warehouse partying to music that would otherwise make his head hurt if he wasn't so up on the x trip. I love to see such thinly veiled articles as this that are made to be oh so much more than they really are. Come on I haven't seen a tech rave about software since Virtual Valerie and that's only because it was the first time he had made a woman moan without it being more of a groan of disgust.
RHEL 3 packages Python 2.2.3. Is that high enough for it?
It wouldn't surprise me if some Closed-Source companies have foreign nationals working on their software as well.
In either case, whoever's using software for National Security better audit the source code themselves. I wouldn't want missle systems to use Linux or Windows or some other RTOS without a careful audit.
I'm not sure what it is, what it's supposed to do or if it even exists, but it's very important. Props to Poone 2.0 for including LDAP support in the default install. It gets my vote.
Plone two is by far the best portal / cms system I have ever tried. It spanks the pants off of every single commercial system as well and I have tried some expensive ones. It is the flexibility and power of python that makes it so great.
Got Code?
Once again, another example of why open source is the way to go. Think about how many websites out there wouldn't be the way they are without open source, and how many businesses rely on it.
I have no firsthand experience with Plone but would be curious to hear more about it.
Their outputted html is amazing, the CSS is elegant but very very powerful, they leverage as much of their Zope underpinnings as possible, it is quite extendable, has a nice management environment, international support is getting very good, and it's interface is great (they actually have interface engineers on the team), it is a very good CMS. It is easy to jump into too, there is a good amount of, if scattered, documentation. Being able to bridge between news sites and group-ware is pretty encompassing. It might not be the absolute best solution for every situation, but it is getting there with its plug in architecture.
Is there anything better than clicking through Microsoft ads on Slashdot?
I'm sure that this is a really great piece of software and I've been meaning to check out Zope for a long time. But I just can't get over this name. It just sounds too much like it ought to be signed to Warp Records or something.
I just can't take it seriously... I look at a headline like "Plone 2.0: eWeek Reviews" and I go "oh, so Aphex Twin's released a new album then?"
For feature by feature comparisions between a large number of CMS applications, check www.cmsmatrix.org.
It doesn't include WebObjects. It doesn't include the Everything Engine. And while this is somewhat less of a problem, it doesn't include Zope (which would be helpful so that a casual observer could understand what Plone provides that vanilla Zope does not). What's the point of doing something like this if you can't be relatively exhaustive?
I bet if they where willing to bust out a checkbook
and hit the plone developer list they can get all of the support their little hearts desired. Not only that but they would likely be working with someone that actually wrote it instead of a helpdesk dork telling you to reinstall.
Got Code?
*sigh* Apparently the mods have no sense of humor today.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
We've been using Plone for a while now and for me it has a few distinct advantages:
* Plone works *out-of-the-box* and is easy to extend and configure.
* Plone provides excellent workflow support. A Workflow is the editorial chain used to manage documents. Creating new workflows is easy.
* Plone is easily extended with external components ("Products" in Zope/Plone parlance). I run Plone with Zwiki (a wiki extention) and CMFBoard (forums), making for a very rich intranet site with loads of possibilities. Check out the The Collective or the Zope website
* Plone comes with Archetypes, which is a framework which allows for the relatively easy creation of new content types (in Python)
* It runs on Zope which is a very powerfull Application Server and Content Management System. Zope has got a rather steep learning curve, but its documentation has been improved and it has got a very supportive and vibrant user community.
Once in a while, I even pass the Turing-Test
It's plonedap.
(May cause emphysema, diarreah, blood clot, stroke or intestinal disorder. Check with your doctor before using.)
"Plone" does sound like something they would be playing at a rave
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
I've been writing software for 24 or so years, I've forgotten more languages than I can recall and I don't see any particular benefit in introducing myself to Python.
You may mark this off-topic, but I strongly suspect that the moment I want to do something that Plone cannot, I am required to use Python (and/or Zope).
Most of my development these days is in PHP - the language seems elegant, it talks to any database I care to use, has anything I can think of bolted in and for me it works.
Now I'm all for learning new skills, but as I said, I just don't get it. What is so special about Python and why should I care?
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Or unless I support slashdot by subscribing, my friend.
Wireless News www.DailyWireless
... beating out a commercial portal suite, Traction's TeamPage 3.01, reviewed in the same issue.
How long it takes for people to realize that you can make money with open source so it can be commercial. Commercial software isn't the opposite of open source. Non-free or closed is.
The minute I discovered Python, I never went back to PHP. And that's just for the sake of the language.
... Python talks to all the databases you want. You can do Python in Gnumeric, there are talks about integrating it in Openoffice.org ... ...
...
...
Once you look into it, you'll understand that stuff like Zope really needs stuff like Python. Python really is that great and well worth learning.
It really is more powerfull. And a lot easier, IMHO, to extend than PHP.
Something else I do like about Python is that IMHO it is becoming the the facto scripting language in (at least) Linux. You can use it to create Gnome APPS, there is now a pretty good mod_python for Apache, and that's a lot faster than PHP, it can be embedded in PostGres
Python has an OMG-defined CORBA-mapping, the latest I heard about PHP and CORBA was that it was in the works
Although not entirely true, I feel PHP remains somewhat stuck in the realm of webapps. Please correct me if I'm wrong. And yes, I'm aware of php-gtk, PHP in PostGres
For the record, my latest experience with PHP are 4.2.3. Things may have changed since
Evert
- Microsoft Windows as the number one platform for "e-business foundations,"
- Microsoft Visual Studio as number one for "Application & Web Services Development,"
- Microsoft Office OneNote 2003 as number one for "Personal Productivity."
Need I say more?bash: rtfm: command not found
Great product, but if you follow the links to the plone website, then watch the demo for the HIGOV.net implementation, part of it (near the end) shows integration with monitoring software... and it reveals the private IP addresses inside their LAN and that they run telnet. Considering that I just finished Kevin Mitnick's book on social engineering (the Art of Deception), this wasn't the best choice of content to put into a demo. Running telnet on a firewalled, private LAN is one thing. But telling the world your private IPs that are being used for telnet services mean one only needs a username and password now...
Well I've been trying various OSS CMS the past few months, and I don't have quite such glowing praise.
p y", line 207, in ?p y", line 190, in mainp y", line 134, in do_start
What got me more than anything were installation issues. Everything from finding the proper packages for my particular OS, to having to do a lot of editing of config files, that weren't always clear. To just plain bugs.
And when I got some of them working (barely in some cases). Sometimes functionality I needed wouldn't be in the particular version I had, but it might be in anothers. or it wouldn't do what the documentation said (out of sync docs. or behind the scenes bug).
And this was independent of what language it was written in. From PHP to Java, to Perl.
So pardon me if my "out of the box" experience doesn't match yours.
Now I got to go back and figure out why plone doesn't work on Fedora. Despite the documentation.
"Site Error
An error was encountered while publishing this resource.
Resource not found
Sorry, the requested resource does not exist.
Check the URL and try again.
Resource: VirtualHostBase GET"
and
"Starting Plone2 instance main: Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/usr/lib/plone2/lib/python/Zope/Startup/zopectl.
main()
File "/usr/lib/plone2/lib/python/Zope/Startup/zopectl.
c.onecmd(" ".join(options.args))
File "/usr/lib/python2.3/cmd.py", line 210, in onecmd
return func(arg)
File "/usr/lib/plone2/lib/python/Zope/Startup/zopectl.
ZDCmd.do_start(self, arg)
File "/usr/lib/plone2/lib/python/zdaemon/zdctl.py", line 214, in do_start
os.spawnvp(flag, args[0], args)
File "/usr/lib/python2.3/os.py", line 543, in spawnvp
return _spawnvef(mode, file, args, None, execvp)
File "/usr/lib/python2.3/os.py", line 504, in _spawnvef
wpid, sts = waitpid(pid, 0)
OSError: [Errno 10] No child processes"
Oh yeah! I'm going to be enjoying my Easter.
...to plug another newly-open-sourced CMS I'm the lead developer for:
Sitellite CMS
Written in PHP, unusually flexible, very strong add-on framework, free add-ons, including a search add-on based on Apache Lucene (no PHP Java extension required though), and HIGHLY usable by non-techies. Cross-browser WYSIWYG editing is built-in, and it's designed for non-techies to use, but real techies to code in. Like any proper template system, standards compliance is up to you however (although our XML-based templates require XHTML or XML output, so we do encourage at least ;)).
There's also a commercial version, and commercial support available (this was the qualm that the reviewer had about Plone) at simian.ca. We also sell commercial add-ons (gotta eat too, right? ;)).
Anyway, </plug> -- just trying to scare up some more interest, never hurts to try. :)
putfwd.com - 1GB Free file storage with a twist
" What, no .cx ?"
:)
Not on a first date.
Your post makes my head want to pop. I can understand having strong opinions on subjects but how can you make false statements of a factual nature and mask them under a "IMHO" shield0.
How in the world could you come to the unusual conclusion that python is becoming the defacto scripting language in Linux? Scripting is about getting repetitive things done quick and dirty. How could anyone who has used python claim it applies there? The nature of object-oriented languages of any kind is that their encapsulation while enabling grander levels of robustness offer nothing in the way of quick and dirty.
As for your empty comparison of mod_pythion and php, even if php is running cgi mode the chances that in the real world python is faster than php is almost impossible. Why, because object instantiation eats up more CPU time than straight procedural calls, believe it or not, and in any interpreted language it take up more time. Pythons garbage collection and other threads help to steal CPU time from the process as well. There are optimizations that can be made to this but PHP does a lot of these optimizations as well and the Zend optimizer includes some whacky optimizations that simply don't exist yet for Python.
Python is a fairly easy to use language and it does have its utility. That being said there is no reason to make outlandish blatantly false claims to support a personal opinion.
If the CMS is doing it's job you don't need to look at the HTML, so why have neatly whitespaced code adding bandwidth/processor usage.
/.)
It reminds me of the MS Frontpage advert that raves about it's clean code - with emphasis on 'clean' being provided by the depreciated bold tag. (Actually that's not relevant I've just been wanting to post it for a while after I saw the advert here on
By the way, is it just me, or does Plone's frontpage have a graphical glitch for IE of all browsers. The background of the "Software Patents Destroy Innovation" box jumps around when highlighted.
"Do not be swept up in the momentum of mediocrity." - anon
http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2000/06/02 /magazine/python_first_language.html
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=3882
There's also a commercial version, and commercial support available (this was the qualm that the reviewer had about Plone) at simian.ca. We also sell commercial add-ons (gotta eat too, right? ;)).
Yes, but does it have a large, active open source developer community? The community site seems kind of dead. Where is the CVS site? Are OSS contributors required to license their changes for the corporate version?
Without an active OSS developer community, it matters fairly little what license it comes with.
is shit. the lsbom it installs has a non-standard "200pieces" markup at the beginning of every line in the BOM, messing up any scripts you may already have to remove things. I ended up using OSXPM (google for it) to clean things up.
/Applications the new Plone user it creates and the Plone folder in /Library/StartupItems as well.
Remember to remove the folder in
*whew!*. that was ass. Not going to mess with it again.
I consider them way ahead of time.
And I'm glad to see Zope and one of it's major products, Plone, getting this recognition. I consider Zope vastly superior to any other available Application Server. It's suitable for rapid and large scale developement likewise. If you want to know how the future of databases and high level programming of custom apps will look like, check out Zope.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
I read the second article (by ESR), but the first URL gave me an Internal Server Error 500.
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I recently came back from the Plone Sprint in Austria. For those not familiar with sprints, this is where you get a bunch of developers in one place for a week to concentrate on development.
Virtually all of the people there (there were ~50 attendees) ran their own small businesses (myself included, Netsight) that used Plone -- mostly providing installation, customization, and support. Most of these companies *depended* in Plone for their livelihood.
What struck me the most was how business focused all of the developers were. This is something that really sets Plone apart from some of the other OSS projects out there. All of these people are making real dollars on developing this software, and hence *need* to have a business focus otherwise their businesses would fail. As technically great as many OSS projects are, many of them don't have the business drive to succeed.
The second thing that really struck me was a demonstration by a blind woman from the local Institute for the Blind. Plone is known for being very hot on accessibility, but this was just amazing. The woman had half a day training, and was then able to enter content, add metadata and take it through a workflow -- all using a braille reader and text-to-speech software. And what is even more amazing, is that she doesn't speak any English, she was relying on the internationalization features of Plone to deliver a German version of the UI -- including all the alt tags and hidden things that screen-readers rely upon.
--
Matt Hamilton (aka HammerToe)
Netsight Internet Solutions
Slashdot comments put spaces into long 'words' to prevent page widening. Copy the URL again, and remove the space, and it will load.
(I can't be bothered educating people about how to format URLs properly in HTML -- wasted effort most of the time)
That's odd. I *love* python for quick-and-dirty. Yes, it's an OO language, but it's not like you *have* to write a bunch of classes to get something done.
In fact, it's so quick-and-dirty that I sometimes just write something straight from the interactive prompt - especially for those annoying do-a-weird-renaming-operation-on-a-bunch-of-files style problems.
I'm posting anonymously, for the obvious reasons.
We're just about to ship a in-house web application to 50,000 users. We did a significant amount of the work using Python 2.3.3, Zope 2.7 and Plone 2.
These tools made it possible for us to get some visually nice things out quickly, but they are a maintenance nightmare. To be able to leverage Plone 2, we had to update to a more recent version of Archetypes. We have to use 11 different components, of which there is no real support for 3. The people who have developed these modules are not really professional programmers, or even experienced Open Source hobbyists, which really shows in the quality of code.
The worst thing about these products is that the documentation ends at the Python level. There are some web documents for Zope, but they are next to useless for serious developers (they explain how to get things done in Zope Template Language and present a few APIs manually, but lack any explanations about program flow, object details and other things that come so naturally in Java API documentation.)
So, we're one month away from wide-scale deployment, our application has a response time of 1.2s per click, the code is unreadable spaghetti tangle of Zope Page Templates, Archetypes storage objects, all arranged as a Plone skin, because that's apparently the only _real_ way to extend that product, and we're still MISSING functionality because we have to work hard to get around problems in the platform.
So - if you want a out-of-the-box content management solution for a small office, I'd recommend Plone heartily. If you're planning in doing _ANY_ modifications at all, keep away from Plone like it had rabies.
Don't _ever_ start writing a UI in Zope Page Templates unless you know exactly what you're doing.
"but they weren't revolutionary and didn't make me run through the streets naked, Archimedes-style."
It's one of those epiphany moments when you start using it and developing for it. After Apache, Perl, PHP, ASP and all the other point tools. The thought is "Fuck me, *this* is how it *should* be done".
Zope on it's own rocks. Plone on top is the icing. It's all free anyway, runs on every platform including Windows so you might as well try it for yourself.
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
In my day Dan Quayle had used up all the E's with bad spelling and we had to make our own letters!
False. OpenCMS has such an editor, provided that you use MS IE. OpenCMS is released under the LGPL. Furthermore, I understand that WYSIWYG editing (for OpenCMS) is available in Mozilla, too, provided that you buy a proprietary, third-party software.
A lawyer & digital forensics examiner. Also an expert on open source software (OSS).
I read the article, the reviewer liked what he saw, just was wishing he could have found a 24/7 place for customized support..
well, well???? Isn't this supposed to be one of the two ways to make some clams with open source software, ie, this is a job going begging now?
make money with open source by:
A-using it directly to help make and sell and service your widgets
B- offering custom service for the application software
No current direct 24/7 support = someone reading the article who might be under or un-employed just discovered a job that didn't exist before. Sounds OK to me, this "problem" will be self rectifying I would bet, real soon now....
1) It's easy to pick up.
2) Guido's tutorial is the best introduction
I ever saw for a computer language.
3) The python reference manual is extensive
and well written, and along with guido's
tutorial is installed on every Linux distro.
4) Using identation instead of braces to delineate blocks of code is a lot easier to read
5) It's object oriented in a GOOD way.
6) idle --- idle rules the world. With idle
I can interactively debug my code while writing
it.
7) Documentation for modules and functions is
trivial, and thanks to idle easily extractable
so if you have to use function foo from module bar, but you're not sure how to use it, or what it's for, you can query bar.foo for its documentation in idle.
8) The profile module is like gnu's gprof for C/C++, but in my opinion much nicer. You can do
all sorts of sorting of statistics with the profile module.
9) The module pdb rocks the world!
With pdb.run('run your code here') in a session
of python, or much better yet, in a session of
idle, you can step through python code
as it executes, examine the contents of variables, even change the variables on the fly
to see how it affects your code.
10) Thanks to interfaces to Tk/Tcl, Gtk,
wxwindows, and QT, you can write python code that uses your favorite choice of widgets as front
ends. It doesn't matter that the widgets are
C/C++ libraries --- the interfacing code
has already been written, and it's free (the
interfacing code that is).
11) swig -- swig makes it possible to call
C/C++ libraries from your python code as if
they were python modules. You get the speed
of C/C++ with the elegance and clarity of python.
I am negotiating right now with one of my customers to get a long-term grant to build a GPLed Knowledge Management (as apposed to just content managment) layer on top of the Python/Zope/Plone stack.
I usually use Java (or Common Lisp) for development, but Plone offers so much infrastructure out of the box, that the decision to use it seems right. (Although I have been experimenting a lot with OpenCMS, which also looks very good).
-Mark
ooooohhhmmm.
+&x
Those are great articles. Thanks.
Python as a first language
Why Python? by Eric Raymond, who wrote The Cathedral and the Bazaar. I also like this article because I think Perl is a mess and I am glad to see someone else saying that.
Anyone looking at this ought to take a hard look at the future of Zope first. My read (from curretn Zope users) is that there is no active development/support community, which doesn't bode well for the future of the platform. I would encourage talking to existing users before making an implementation decision.
Also see the comment below: Python is great. Zope is well-written and badly documented.
From another comment below: PHP is horrible -- Experiences of Using PHP in Large Websites
Eleven more reasons why Python is wonderful, from a comment below.
From a comment below: Major problems with Zope and Plone.
Correct link to Nuxeo's Collaborative Portal Server. Also, in French: CPS.
No active Zope development community?
I find Python very elegant though in a rough hewn sort of way (for more refined elegance try Haskell). PHP in contrast feels just rough hewn (and not in any particularly elegant sort of way).
Python has libraries to talk to pretty much any database I've encountered and extensions that allow me to do anything I've wanted (so far).
Not to say that Python doesn't have a few warts - but over time these are being incrementally fixed - and usually in very nice ways.
I'm actually a bit glad I didn't learn Python as a first language - it would have made learning other languages so much more frustrating - why learn another language that doesn't do what Python does or that does the same thing so much more awkwardly.
Normally, I'm happy with the community support you can find around an oss project, but some little jackass named vinsci actually just censored me in #plone.
Essentially, that makes it impossible to get assistance, since the docs are incomplete and out of date. With Plone, there is a small core of developers, and if you can't make friends with them, then you can expect no support.
Unless they can figure out some way to remove the thugs from the process, you may want to pass on plone, unless you want to be your own support team.
Which of these set-ups have good support for e-commerce? Particularly open-source e-commerce platforms, if anyone can suggest any that are stable and robust.
evanchik.net
The state of Open Source CMS's has been driving me nuts for quite some time.
:) Oh yeah, and it would be optimized for PostgreSQL. My other major CMS annoyance is that MySQL is always the preferred DB. If anyone wants to talk about this idea, feel free to email me: micah AT yoderdev DOT com
Specifically, nearly all are written in PHP. I have nothing against PHP in general -- it is a fine language for some things.
But it is not inherently persistant -- code has to be parsed and any objects recreated for every HTTP request. I've been watching projects like Xaraya and Drupal, but they are alower than they should be. Last time I tried Xaraya, it was positively glacial. Drupal is somewhat better.
A few of us had a similar problem a while ago when trying to develop a Linux knowledge-base type application. A complex OOP solution in PHP absolutely killed performance. It didn't work.
I've tried the Zend Optimizer with Xaraya but wasn't too impressed.
I think that CMS's should be self-contained application servers. Any objects created should be persistant, not needing to be re-created for every HTTP request.
I have a wild idea floating around in my head about a C++ CMS. I don't promise anything, especially since I'm not super-strong in C++. But I'm in the "tinkering" phase and maybe something interesting will come out of it. I guarantee it would be the fastest CMS on the face of the earth.
Python/Plone/Zope could be an OK platform, but I'm still a bit concerned about performance. It seems as though applications that should reasonably written in scripting languages, like little desktop utilities, are written in C/C++, and things that run on performance critical servers are written in scripting languages, when they should be written in C/C++.
Once again, Apple demonstrates how software development is SUPPOSED to work. Thanks, again, Apple!
As for your empty comparison of mod_pythion and php, even if php is running cgi mode the chances that in the real world python is faster than php is almost impossible.
Interesting that you'd make both those statements. Have you done any benchmarks? No, of course not, or you'd know that your second statement is totally wrong. Here's a clue for ya based on actual testing rather than ill-informed opinions:
PHP is slow. It starts up slow, and it runs slow. Perl is a speed demon on startup, and Python, while significantly slower than Perl on startup, still beats the pants off PHP. For those who wonder why startup time matters, remember that we're talking about CGI here so you're spending that time for every page load.
For a given task, Perl and Python will always beat PHP on runtime, and usually by quite a bit. Which of Perl or Python is faster seems to depend on what you're doing, but they both generally kill PHP. Now, I've not looked at the source for any of these languages' interpreters, I've just done some testing of them, so I don't know why PHP is so slow, I just know that it is. Maybe the fact that Zend makes a lot of money selling add-ons to make PHP faster has something to do with it. Or, maybe (and there's a fair amount of evidence for this one, I think) PHP is just a lot more poorly written than the other two.
Having said all that, I use PHP for most of my web development, and one of the reasons is speed. How can that be? It comes from the fact that whatever extensions you need in PHP you compile in, whereas in Perl and Python they're dynamically loaded. This turns out to have huge implications. I've got some fairly complex PHP scripts which start up, run, and finish in less time than it takes to for Perl to load CGI.pm. So you have the strange situation where the language which is slower in just about every individual aspect is actually faster for the whole job.
Note that this situation changes radically when you bring mod_python into the mix (I've not tested with mod_perl, as I'm more a Python kinda guy). In this situation, where you can load the modules once when you start Apache, Python's superior speed shows bigtime. Mod_python vs. mod_php isn't even close to being a contest; Python flat spanks the pants off PHP. I'd expect the situation for mod_perl to be similar.
I know this won't sit well with all the PHP fanboys out there who think it's God's gift, but so be it. PHP is a genuinely useful language, moreso than many want to admit. It's also kludgy, hackish, and slow, and no amount of wishful thinking or rabid ranting is going to change that.
We use plone on our corporate website at http://thebbgn.net
We are actually testing the rollout and it randomly takes people to the new site. We found it to be very easy to customize and add content. Our major problem was we have so much content and very little time to actually add it so our website was constantly needing updating. With Plone/Zope we can set dates for content to appear and actually work on it in "visible" mode and then when we are ready we set it to "published" so it will appear to the visitors.
Check it out:
http://thebbgn.net
-- Powered By Linux
check out e107.org for a pretty neat CMS
Shrug.
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Shameless AMD plug, but Zope's performance on AMD64 is very good. As long as you pick an architecture that has decent integer performance, you are likely to find that VMs (Python, Java, .NET CLR, etc) will usually run decently fast for most apps. The same isn't a much true with SPARC or ppc (not to knock those platforms).
I took a look at Plone 2.0 and the feature set looks very good and mature. However, to deploy it requires the server to run the Zope app server, which is not currently available on my webhost and isn't commonly available on most webhosts. So this system is only useful if you can deploy a dedicated server or afford a Zope hosting account. When Zope is available, the hosting prices are much higher and don't include much disk space or many other features commonly found in other webhosts, like Mailman, Cpanel/Plesk, unlim mail/mysql, multiple domains, etc.
I do alot of work for non-profit orgs that need a solid content management system and they could really benefit from the users/groups management and permissions in Plone 2.0 since they generally have lots of people and volunteers working in many areas. However, they usually can't afford the high monthly fees for Zope hosting.
What are the real reasons why Zope isn't more widely deployed at webhosts? Where can low cost Plone-capable hosting be found?
More:
Python Resources
Why Plone?
You can find many hosting options starting at Plone.org. But here's some free Plone 1.05 hosting:
http://www.objectis.net
Plone is a serious CMS. If you are that serious, you really need to be dedicated hosting or colocating and control your application server deployment.
> there are talks about integrating it in Openoffice.org
It is already available in OpenOffice.org - when installing OpenOffice.org slect "Custom Install" and select PyUNO.
CPH
There is a pretty solid article over at C|net's builder.com that was written last August.
AFAIK, the only hosting provider that supports Plone 2.0 is python-hosting.com ...)
(although Zettai
will probably support it soon as well
Well, you can check Objectis home page, they announced the Plone 2 registration opened, even if there is a warning regarding some minor problems.
There is allready 87 Plone 2 sites in production today
I'm guessing you don't understand anything about the underlying architecture for either language. That's fine I'm perfectly willing to do a benchmark scenario. Just to make it so you can't bitch give me a distro, apache version, python version, and php, version. I will run 3 separate test, script initialization, normal run, and high load. I can almost guarantee right now that PHP will come in way behind python for script initialization but ahead in the other two areas.
Also the test I would like to perform are DB access so if you think it works faster with postgres than mysql let me know now. The other test I will run are a linked list sort of ~100,000 items or more depending on how long it takes. I will run a binary sort, and a bubble sort. Next, I will do some dynamic image creation probably a banner ad type image.