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Element Computer: ION Linux on Linux Hardware
JigSaw writes "Well known Lycoris person Jason Spisak left the company to join Element Computer, a new hardware company which now strives to offer the Apple experience on PCs: they sell Linux-certified modern hardware with their own flavor of Debian, ION Linux. ION is a desktop distro and it is developed specifically to work perfectly with the accompanied hardware. Other highlights include usage support (as opposed to installation-only support other distros provide) and system upgrades specific to the exact hardware the user runs. The KDE-based distro will only sell with their hardware as Mike Hjorleifsson says in his interview." (The company was previously mentioned on Slashdot.)
The cheapness of Apple hardware with the expense of a Linux distribution license!
If they follow apple's lead on hw/sw integration and keep the prices reasonable, this could be a very nice way to show Linux as a user-friendly option.
which now strives to offer the Apple experience on PCs
They sell PCs with single-button mice, without floppy drives, at 3 times the price?
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
Anyone have any i deas what distro this is most likely based on?
Photos.
Ummm... you don't have any?
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
Oh wait, you have to pay for it.
Damn.
This is perfect. Linux does have other problems, I must admit. But, hardware was a huge one. For example, the first time I installed debian, it took me forever to figure out how to get X how to use anything but VGA. Once I figured out my way around linux, it became easy, but it still took my a while to figure out how to install my graphic's card driver and such. Having default hardware, where they know what drivers to use, etc. will take a lot of scare and hastle away from the user. For example, if Debian new that every user used an NVidia GeForce, they'd probably bundle the GeForce driver as default. Standard hardware will solve many headaches. All the power to them!
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I'm glad that Element Computer decided to name their distro ION as opposed to the more logical but lawsuit prone Macinux.
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the problem with Macs was that while they performed better on the whole, they were more expensive.
ION Linux may guarentee that the software and hardware will play together nicely but you've gotta pay for it. I've never had a problem getting Linux (RedHat, Debian, Gentoo) to work well on standard Dell machines or on machines I've built from various parts.
Nice idea but prebuilt Linux machines don't have a big market and I don't see that ION Linux is going to change this.
"She's a West Texas girl, just like me" - G.W Bush Iraqis
The hardware limitations are part of the reason Apple offers such a solid, well-functioning OS.
Have you tried Linux yet?
Is it just me, or do these computers cost more than an equivalent Dell model?
Why not buy a Dell, format with Linux, good to go.
I guess they install Linux for free, and provide you with some sort of support, but if you really need that why not just use Windows?
Or, install Debian - it's getting easier every day.
Thank you Mario! But our princess is in another castle!
With Mandrake and Lindow's recent troubles, you'd think they would check that the name isn't already taken.
I just hope the distro ends up changing its name and not My favorite Window Manager
I think you got it wrong. Their purpose is not to make their OS work only on certain hardware, but to make it work flawlessly on such hardware. I doubt they will take the hassle to remove all the code that makes the OS run with other hardware.
And btw, the purpose of the GPL is not to restrict what one can do with the source. It is all about sharing your improvements and not getting monetary compensation from it, since the original authors gave it to you for free. A sort of chain reaction.
I can see nothing bad with selling Linux related services.
Diego Rey
diegoT
I don't like that a company is using Linux in a way that (seemingly) intentionally keeps its software from being of use to anyone who doesn't buy their product. It seems to go around the purpose of GNU and OSS.
Actually, you have it backwards. This is exactly what the GPL was designed for. This company has snazzy new hardware. Since the company can customize an OS around GNU/Linux, they are saved the millions of dollars requisite to develop a proprietary OS. Now you can buy the base model for $799, instead of $2799. Nevermind that then vendors and OSS projects would have to work on porting their products to the new OS (not likely in many cases) in the case of a new proprietary OS.
It's better for them as a company because they are quicker to market and can make their products more economical. It's better for the users because thay can use a well established, rock solid stable OS with thousands of already available applications.
So what if you can only get the hardware from them? As long as they comply with the GPL (or the licesnse for any app they modify), it's all good.
Not only that, but we need distributions that only work_on/come_with certain hardware. So now I go from 2% market share to 0.0002% marketshare!
Have these guys ever taken Marketing 101, or ANY type of business course? What kind of business plan is this, and who honestly expects it to sell?
Let me give you one obvious hint - steal business ideas that are GOOD, not those that have been holding Apple back for the past 15+ years.
Berto
This is all well and good, except for the tablet model (Helium). Doesn't he know that it's extremely difficult to IONize Helium?
Anonymous Luddite: "What do you think of the dehumanizing effects of the Internet?"
Andy Grove: "Not Much."
There, Apple experience complete.
Indeed, they do appear to be running a desktop only version of a web server,
While trying to retrieve the URL: http://elementcomputer.com/
The following error was encountered:
* Connection Failed
The system returned:
(111) Connection refused
It appears that Element's servers have been reduced to mere elements, which is a shame as I think this is a worthy idea, and I'd love to get a glimpse at their site.
I see it's been said (derisively) that this is no new idea. While no one will content the accuracy of that statement, this is a new approach to offering a cohesive and well planned Linux box.
And that's a GOOD thing. How many times have we read the trolls complaining to the heavens how Linux would surely find better success if only it didn't take those extra few minutes to research your new hardware; if only it was better integrated, on both the hardware and the software level.
It appears we're all going to see if those complaints were truly the thing holding Linux back. As a former Mac user, who has been converted to Linux on account of my ability to pick it apart at the deepest or most shallow levels, the only thing I do truly miss was the slick unity Apple provided for it's consumers. Let's see if these guys can do the same.
I certainly won't wait with baited breath, but this is a cool and worthy idea. Good luck guys/gals.
Wow. I was just thinking to myself, "You know what, Mike? We need MORE LINUX DISTRIBUTIONS!"
I know most sports stars refer to themselves in the third person, but you actually think to yourself in the third person? Do you also answer your own rhetorical questions?
--- I do not moderate.
I think the general idea of shipping machines with an operating system and, indeed, applications that are tuned to the specific hardware of the machine is a sound one.
I've installed more operating systems in the last 20 years than I can count. My main home system is a Fujitsu P2040 laptop that currently dual-boots Win2k and Mandrake 9.2, and I've probably spent 60-80 hours installing and tweaking and tuning both of these operating systems just to get everything working to my liking in both operating systems - all the hardware buttons (even the "email" button and notification light), cd-burning, region-free DVD playback, trackpoint sensitivity & z-axis support, 3d acceleration (albeit pathetic on this Mach64-based Rage Mobility) under linux, cygwin in win2k, Crusoe-tuned power management and monitoring, remapped keyboard (caps=ctrl, winkeys useful), separate partitions for my data and OS (and a swap partition used by both operating systems). I can recover this clean, custom load of either OS with bootable CD sets I made. I replaced the fujitsu logo on the top of the lid with a metal plate I screen printed with tiny C version of DeCSS (efdtt.c, props to Charles Hannum and Phil Carmody). It's a great little computer and works a treat - but I'll probably sell it soon because I've come to prefer my girlfriend's G3 ibook. It's got that UNIX-fresh flavor I crave right out of the box, and doesn't come loaded from the factory with bullshit like a PC, and it took all of 5 minutes to configure to my liking when I installed Panther on it.
A company that can deliver a no-bullshit PC running linux with Apple-grade hardware/software integration might get my business. I'm not convinced that Element is that company, but we'll see.
-Isaac
I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. For Entertainment Purposes Only.
It is good to see a company doing the work for people who want to run Linux... without worries of hardware support. Not only is it good for users, but it is good for general hardware support in Linux. The more vendors see people (or resellers) making their purchasing decisions based on how good the Linux drivers are for their hardware, the better the drivers will get.
-matthew
"THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS ONLY ME." -Death
The only real difference is that apple.com doesn't get slashdotted ;)
This probably won't work, and history tells us why: Apple suffered terribly when it started licensing mac clones. ION "clones" already exist in the form of x86 boxen everywhere.
Had Power Computing and all those mac clone companies existed before Apple, I doubt even Apple would have gotten off the ground...by extension...
The Right Reverend K. Reid Wightman,
I think that a penguin wearing a bullet-proof vest would be a good mascot.
Subtitle it with "Make sure your server is Bullet Proof" or words to that effect.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
I think that you've missed on this one.
If ION can put together a slick looking and feeling desktop system with linux nicely tuned on it then I will be *glad* to give them my money. And I have been setting up linux on laptops and workstations for a number of years now.
Why would I pay them money when I can just buy a Dell and do the same?
Two reasons.
Because I'm not always satisfied with the hardware that Dell chooses and I'll be very happy if I don't have to download another $%*# experimental winmodem driver, get the right hardware acceleration components loaded into my X server or figure out why the cd/rw only appears as a cd.
I love linux and love the control I have over the entire system but I hate having to wrestle with configuration issues all the time. If by default my laptop came well tuned and looking pretty I would pay the ION folks some $$$$.
And so would my company.
And so would my friend's companies.
Cool. I hope they get their prices and the the look of their distro right.
Oh, and add a few we more servers to the cluster......
--
Dan Glauser
J2EE Architect
http://www.roundboxmedia.com
Its for the obvious reason.
Mac OSX is specifically targetted for the MAC.
So: When MAC OSX installs, it's binaries are optimized for the G4 architecture.
This is a bit more awkward for the PC. Although Intel and AMD share the same core instruction set, there are of course differences. Others like Transmeta are completely different.
This presents a problem for M$ as they like to keep things i386 borg'd!
And therin lies the power of Linux and Open source in general. If you compile source code for the specific target architecture you're working with, you will optimize to the max. And ion are taking this a step further. By making their mission/goal to optimize all software for the specific h/w it's running on, they are sure moving towards the smoothest dam resposiveness you could want in an O.S.
It should make ion linux the choice for scientific applications where performance is essential.
I use Mandrake but I really like the sound of Ion. I think I'll move over when I get my next PC.
Agreed fully, and remember, on a Mac you've got OpenFirmware, so you can EASILY do a one-time boot off a USB or FireWire drive.
Apple made considerations to eliminate the floppy, PC makers have not. PCs still don't have standardized boot protocols for stuff like USB or FireWire, so they NEED floppies to make stuff like BIOS flashes easy to use.
The best thing about adminning on a platform with no floppy? Never having to tell anyone that their disk ate their work.
"Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
Maybe I've only tried the 'wrong' Linux distros. In my experience you first have to find and install apt-get (which IS a big step up from RPMs). From an ease of use POV doesnt that kind of defeat the purpose? OK, let's say I have apt-get already, I want to download a program. first I look around on the internet for the exact apt-get command to type because I don't feel safe just typing 'foo' when I want 'foo 1.3.5'. Now I know what to type, ok, I've installed it. Where the heck is it? I look in the start menu and dont see it. I do a search of my entire computer and find it, but then have to figure out which file I actually click to run the program. Once I've done that I have to put it in the start menu so that it is reasonably accessable. Now what do I do if I decide 'foo 1.3.5' is too bleading edge and I want to untinstall it? Windows Installers are good, though having to uninstall through control panel probably isnt the best approach. Mac's approach to this seems the best, drag folder to applications folder to install, drag to trash to uninstall. Easy. Don't get me wrong, I think apt0get is a great tool, much better than any other current approach to installing programs in Linux, but it's still not as good as the Mac method.
You're posting on Slashdot, remember? Slashdot is part of OSDN, and the parent company of OSDN is...well, VA Software. But if you think back a few years, they used to be VA Linux. They thoroughly tested hardware to make sure it was reliable under Linux, then sold machines with Linux pre-installed.
Now, I don't know if VA sold workstations, but I know that Penguin did (and does), because I've used them. Penguin has some nice-looking Opteron servers as well.
You might argue that these two companies are targeted more at businesses than the home user, and you'd be right. But it's not as if this is some new mind-blowing concept. Lindows is basically trying to do the same thing; while they will sell you the software separately, most people are going to pick it up via those cheap computers which (gasp!) have hardware selected for Lindows.
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