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CESA Boss Talks Japanese Gaming Problems
Thanks to GameSpy for its interview with CESA executive managing director Kazuya Watanabe, as the head of the "game industry's trade organization" in Japan discusses issues such as the Japanese games industry's dislike of the used videogame market: "Used software sales are now legal and covered by the law. Despite the fact that the court has passed judgment, the software manufacturers are still not satisfied with the outcome because of the high percentage of used sales in overall Japanese game sales." He also addresses the perception that many Japanese PC titles are adult-oriented: "They stand out. They do not have a large market, but they catch your eyes. If you look at that, you may think, 'Boy, these Japanese are very strange.' It is not the case."
Lots of game manufacturers (and retailers) seem opposed to used game sales (especially for pc games). The game store that I frequent has had a remarkably smaller used game section the last few times I've been. No pc games, and only a single bin of used XBox and Playstation games. They are also giving very little money for trade-ins, only a few dollars for even relatively new games. Anyone else notice this trend?
If you can read this then I forgot to check "Post Anonymously"
From the article:
"Also, ownership is an important component of American culture. People do not like to buy things unless they feel that they own it with no strings attached"
How is it that the head of Japan's major video game trade group has more insight into American consumer desires then our own trade groups?
If you look at that, you may think, 'Boy, these Japanese are very strange.' It is not the case.
They're not? I suppose 'strange' is too closed minded, but 'different' certainly suffices!
I'm so used to the culture around me(Aussie) that when I look at the Japanese I can't help but be in awe. They're absolutely brilliant people but have the kookiest of cultures. Manga, Anime... need I say more!
It's VERY addictive stuff.
He also addresses the perception that many Japanese PC titles are adult-oriented: "They stand out. They do not have a large market, but they catch your eyes. If you look at that, you may think, 'Boy, these Japanese are very strange.' It is not the case."
Now, I'm just about as tolerant as I can be about cultural differences, and I don't look down at another culture's adult entertainment any more than I would judge them by the clothes they wear.
But there is a reason why there isn't an english translation for hentai.
The thing is, even though I support fair use rights, there is a point in this. Used media, of all types, games, software, movies, music, is a killer of sales.
In fact, more than P2P, it's my personal observation that this is where the real damage is to producers.
Think about it for a second..sales of used media are pretty stable, if not increasing. This does one of two things..
#1. It prevents a new sale on something that is still sold shrinkwrapped.
#2. Even on obsolete media, it's taking valuable entertainment dollars out of the market.
It's #2 that I'd be concerned about, more or less. People only have so much to spend on entertainment, and theoretically, it would actually be better, for example, for a consumer to spend that 20 bucks going towards a new game, and download the older game, than taking that money out of the potential market for their product. Now that's no guarentee that it'll work out, but you gotta be bold, be confident I guess.
Now, I buy used media myself, and get it at a good price. (Buy 2 DVDs get 2 free) Even though I know it's hurting the producers, as long as they focus on piracy, and those scare tactics, instead of going after those stores, frankly, I couldn't care less.
But it IS hurting them.
I can't see how used games is really any different than used book sales. Publishers also have to deal with these things called public libraries, where books can be traded and lent around freely. A new release book often sports the same price tag as a new release game.
I honestly don't see Mills and Boon whining about how much of their stuff is in a used book shop.
I suppose if the game industry wants to cut down on used game sales, they could always re-release their old stuff as an added bonus with the new game.
READY.
PRINT ""+-0
Didn't Nintendo try to shut down the Game Rental industry back in the eighties? I've always wondered how much rentals have cut into sales. Then again, you don't expect to buy a car (or date a girl) without test driving it first :)
It literally means 'pervert'.
I think you are trying to make out the Japanese to be more different than they really are- for example, the tentacle rape is just a side effect of their weird legal system (no human penises allowed, no sex between women and animals either, but sex with imaginary creatures apparently falls into a legal grey area... go figure!); and the apparent youth of the manga characters is illusory- the Japanese consider the characters to be older than Americans do- there are some cultural differences relating to reducing sun exposure in Japanese women and physical differences that tends to make them look younger to western eyes than they really are. You cannot really condemn Japanese Hentai manga unless you understand the environment that it has evolved in.
I mean, the Japanese may well consider LA porn to be barbaric and offensive (you can see pubic hair?)
-WolfWithoutAClause
"Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"I mean, the Japanese may well consider LA porn to be barbaric and offensive (you can see pubic hair?)
I'm not sure that the culture that created "Max Hardcore" has any business commenting on the supposed strangeness of other country's porn. Who was the comedian who said "The first time I saw a Max Hardcore film, I didn't know whether to jerk off or call the cops"?
Most of the oft-sighted strangeness of Japanese porn either has a direct analogue in our porn, or is otherwise a product of the strange obscenity laws imposed there.
I could've sworn that I read somewhere that a very high percentage of Japanese PC games are hentai due to the lack of popularity of PC gaming in Japan (i.e. consoles take care of the "real" gaming, so only the leftover crap makes it to the PC). Maybe it was a bad source?
Rob
the tentacle rape is just a side effect of their weird legal system (no human penises allowed, no sex between women and animals either, but sex with imaginary creatures apparently falls into a legal grey area... go figure!)
It's interesting--I'm sure the reason why the censorship laws were made was so the citizens wouldn't become corrupted by porn, but I'd bet that the Japanese are more screwed up by what resulted from the laws than what would've happened without them.
Of course, I don't think the fact that Japan was the only target of a nuclear attack in history is merely incidental to this situation, either.
Rob (I guess it was either hentai or superpowered mutants)
Watanabe actually says that hentai games are a small part of the whole video gaming market, not just the PC market, and that PC games aren't handled by their rating system anyway.
Rob (At least that's what it looks like; he wasn't completely clear)
This is not true. Many characters in hentai manga are in high school, even middle school. I couldn't count the number of manga where the main character is 14 and appears nude or in sex acts.
The sexual objectification of pre-adult girls is a well documented part of japanese culture. This is not disputed. 23 is literally "over the hill" in the sex industry there.
It's not so much "no human penises". The law states something more like "no detailed images of the human genitalia". So, the result is a lot of gray area as each manga house sets different standards on what "detailed" is. And of course the tentacle rape is really a good metaphor for what rape is, I think, which is hardly a Japanese-only obsession (look hard enough and you can find it anywhere I think, but Japan and most of Europe are more open about having stores selling the stuff instead of pushing the government to zone away anything offensive from one's neighborhood).
In any case, the whole thing about pubic hair is just a taboo, not any law. So it shouldn't have much meaning in porn (well, not any more than any other way that a taboo turns into a fetish turns into a whole genre).
Actually I burst into laughter... man! RTFA.
How can you assume they are underage, when they are not in photo images of real human, but merely some drawings born from imagination? Do you insist on 'human rights' of those imaginary drawings? It seems your view of the world is perverted enough to confuse real world with virtual world, or free speech.
Surely there are cartoons that are intentionally made to look like underage, but if you read Japanese language you'll find that none of them explicitly state that they are underage by themselves. Even with school uniform, when the author insists they are not students, they are not. Even in the real world, do you know there are places in Tokyo where girls of 18 and over wear school uniform and pour alcohol to glasses? LOL
Actually there is a Japanese law saying that you can't show pictures of pubic hair. However, in the early 90s a magazine published pictures which included pubic hair and said that it was art and should not be censored. The authorities never took action against them and since then others have also broken this law without being prosecuted. So basically it's only technically illegal.
My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
My (limited) understanding is that most, if not all, of these porn laws were created by the Americans in charge of rebuilding the country after WWII. Extremely sexually explicit Japanese art goes back at least a few hundred years, if not much longer. The American occupation was the first thing to really dampen that tradition at all, AFAIK. Doing some brief googling, an article describing some of this art is here, and a (pretty explicit) example can be found here.
Not sure I would really say the they 'screwed them up', per se, but the laws are unfortunate, and obviously did nothing to reduce the impact or prevelance of porn there.
There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion. -- Francis Bacon
Maybe the game industry in Japan just has more legislative clout to get the government to give it control over users, but I doubt it given the size of the music industry here.
I wonder if maybe it's just that historically the reason so many more games are available in Japan is because so many of those games are very, very, crappy. If people are able to rent a game and realize how shoddy it is, maybe they would be discourraged from buying the product. This same thinking might explain the crusade against resale -- a much larger chunk of the gaming pie here consists of titles that are simply worth the wait for buying used.
Surely there are cartoons that are intentionally made to look like underage, but if you read Japanese language you'll find that none of them explicitly state that they are underage by themselves. Even with school uniform, when the author insists they are not students, they are not.
Yes, there's a standard disclaimer at the start of every bit of Japanese adult entertainment I've seen which states explicitly that everyone involved is over 18.
The fact that most of them are clearly prepubescent is irrelevant - they are over 18.
But frankly, even if it is kiddie porn, at least Japanese kiddie porn doesn't involve actually abusing real live kids like American kiddie porn does. If you're going to have perverts - and, let's be frank, you are - it's surely better to have harmless perverts.
There are CD rentals here, at least where I live. They are at a place called the Library. They have a lot of this things called books; however, they also rent out Movies and CDs for around $1/day or so.
Check it out sometime.
Yeah, all those japanese getting tentacles add-ons, and the massive centauri inmigration are really hurting japan!
What? Babylon 5 was just science fiction?
I don't have to assume. Characters in middle school are not adults. characters in school living with their parents are not adults. Characters who have their age explicitly stated as under 18 are not adults.
Do you insist on 'human rights' of those imaginary drawings?
No. Where do you draw that inference?
Surely there are cartoons that are intentionally made to look like underage, but if you read Japanese language you'll find that none of them explicitly state that they are underage by themselves.
I have been consuming manga for over ten years, and you are wrong.
Even in the real world, do you know there are places in Tokyo where girls of 18 and over wear school uniform and pour alcohol to glasses?
Yes. I have been to said places. Have you?
Look, if you want to argue that in comics, people can be adults and look like children and go to school like children and not drive cars like children in modern Japan, or that in magic comic world age 14* is legal adulthood so there's no problem, that's OK. Some people argue that. I don't care, no kids are being hurt by this stuff being published. But don't say something that isn't true. These comics are clearly depicting minors.
*14 has been age of consent in Japan until very recently so even then it's not a problem in most cases.
Shigeru Miyamoto has a mature take on this topic (especially for one who produces games). His solution is to create games *that people want to keep*.
He says game producers must make games that don't "end" when the main story is finished. Otherwise, It's like a book you never pick up again.
I'm all for keeping good games.