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PowerBooks & iBooks Get Speed Bumped
Currawong writes "Apple has, as rumors predicted, speed bumped its line of portables. The PowerBooks now come in 1.33 and 1.5Ghz G4 versions, including either NVidia 5200's or Radeon 9700 video hardware. The iBooks can now be had at 1 or 1.2Ghz with Radeon 9200 video included. All can be purchased at the Apple Store. This complements nicely the recent speed and feature increases on the eMac range."
it is looking like Apple is going to keep the G4 around for low powered mobiles, just like the Pentium-M .
all that is needed is a 15 inch and 17 inch G5 model, I was hoping that it would be this summer, perhaps in the fall.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
The real question (rumor?) floating around other mac-specific news sites is whether or not this is just to hold us over until the release of G5 notebooks sometime in the not to distant future (January?) A couple interesting threads:
Apple Insider
MacNN
Posting as directed.
seriously, if you are buying an apple laptop with the prospect of playing doom3 or half-life2 you are an idiot. I am not entirely sure if half-life2 is even slated for a mac release. In any case, for a laptop that you are using to do day to day stuff with, then a 5200 is a pretty decent card. If you honestly think you might use it for gaming get a laptop with a 9700. In both cases you are looking a mobile version of these cards which means you are getting a somewhat underpowered card to begin with.
Fear trumps hope and ignorance trumps both
You can usually find good deals on older hardware right around the time that they are about to announce a new model. They just don't offer it to everyone through the Apple Store. Instead, I usually see them advertised in the Mac User's Group store and places that other long time customers have a chance at them.
So I have been looking at getting a 15" powerbook in the last few days and it's probably good I didn't do that. I noticed a few retailers started selling their models with price cuts a couple days ago -- now I know why. Anyhow, the base price of the new line is cheaper than the old line, which I find to be interesting.
My little sad piece of the internet: www.mtndewd
A caution to anyone who'd likely buy one of these new PowerBooks: may your lap beware!
I own one of the "older" 12" G4 PowerBooks (867 MHz), which I absolutely adore, but it has heat issues. The main heat venting location on the case (that I've found) is the bottom rear of the machine. This means that if you're sitting down with it on your lap and you're wearing shorts, prolonged use (3+ hours) may result in warming to the point of extreme skin discomfort. This isn't usually a problem, though it's something you become aware of after the first couple of times you accidentally scald yourself. With the increase in speed, however, the speedy processor would cause an even higher temperature level, barring a radical change to the way in which heat is vented (which is not apparent from the official specs).
Mercifully (in a way), a semi-recent update changed the fan kick-in temperature to a lower threshold, meaning less built-up heat but a lower battery life. Expect the batteries on the new PowerBooks to not quite last as long as they're listed as, though they'd probably last long enough as is. For a college student like me, just having them last through class so that I can go back to my dorm and plug in for the evening's homework is fine.
I'd still buy one (if I had the money and needed a new computer), though I'd be careful to do most of my work on a table.
Misery loves company. Online misery loves unsuspecting random strangers.
I have the previous version of the 12" PowerBook running at 1ghz and it's noticably faster than my p4 1.5ghz. I'd rate it as feeling about the same as a 2.0ghz p4.
So I'd say the 1.5 would be about a 2.8 or 3.0ghz pentium.
While we're on this topic I'd like to point out that Macs feel much faster than they actually are because of the superb multi tasking and UI response under heavy load.
When I am encoding a video on my Windows machine I can't do anything else on my computer, if I try to click something it takes about 30 seconds for the menu to popup.
On the other hand, my Mac can have 20 apps running and encoding a video at the same time and the UI still responds beautifully.
This is why using a Mac is a great experience, you so rarely get frustrated at it because it just works.
this is, as far as i recall, the first time that apple has offred a video card option in its laptops.
It is not an option. If you click on one of the links so generiously provided in the post, such as the PowerBooks link, you can see that the option is either get a 15" or 17" PowerBook with an ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 or a 12" PowerBook with an NVIDIA GeForce FX Go5200.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Uh-huh... and here's a brand-new 1 GHz x86 laptop that sells for $800 MORE than the 1 GHz iBook...
In order to consider buying a laptop, it must have:
1. Both Firewire and USB ports. Firewire for the video camera, the iPod, and external drives, USB for hot-plugging a mouse when working at bigger desks, digital photos, and a few other things.
2. Wireless networking without a flimsy plastic antenna sticking out of the PCMCIA slot.
3. No second mouse button. When I use the Dell they gave me at work, I'm constantly right-clicking by mistake, because I don't like to look down and pay attention to which button I'm hitting. With the Mac, I just blindly stab the heel of my thumb anywhere below the touchpad to click on stuff. I can make OS X dance without contextual pop-up menus, but on the rare occasions I want to use one, my left pinky just rests on the control key when I'm clicking.
Bluetooth is a "nice to have" as well.
So on the offchance that you're not trolling:
- Fink isn't developed by Apple, and they have nothing to do with it, aside from some possible back channel help. However, it did not come "included" on your PowerBook, unless you bought it used.
- You can check for a more recent version of fink by: % sudo fink selfupdate
- You don't need to sell your hardware to update your software.
Hope this helps. Welcome to the Mac.--
$tar -xvf
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Try finding a x86 laptop with similar battery life. Then talk to me about prohibitive prices.
That was true 2-3 years ago, but not now. Thinkpad T40 and many other Centrino-based laptops get up to 7 hours of battery life, far more than any G4-based laptop.
resellers including smalldog.com and macmall.com often offer older models (ones that are totally gone from the apple store) for more reasonable prices.
Dunno if anyone else noticed this, but wireless networking is now STANDARD in the Powerbook line, while you have to spend the extra $100 to get the AirEx card in the iBooks.
Come to the University of Mars! Classes starting soon!
It's likely they already have feasible prototypes. However, IBM is currently having problems turning out enough G5's just for the towers and XServes. They are not likely to push ahead until they are certain supplies will be maintainable.
And really, the need to handle power/heat issues in a laptop may be causing other problems with getting one in a laptop anyway. If they went through the trouble of introducing a speed bump G5 laptops won't be in the next 6 months. In addition, when they do arrive they will probably be only in the high end at first, so if your thinking low-end money range it will probably be longer still.
R: That voice. Where have I heard that voice before? B: In about 365 other episodes. But I don't know who it is either.
This is a HUGE difference for me, since the stuff that I'm most interested in doing isn't so much CPU intensive as RAM intensive. I can live with just about anything, but under 1GB of RAM was a deal-killer on the iBooks.
For me, this changes everything.
Asus makes laptops with upgradable CPUs. You can even buy them barebones (No CPU/RAM/Harddrive).
t m
http://usa.asus.com/products/notebook/nbindex.h
Actually, the same thing happens with PeeCee/commodity hardware too; try and find a new 10GByte disc for 10GBP, or a new Celeron 500 for 5GBP. This is particularly annoying if you want to put together some ultra-cheap new machines (for an undemanding user such as Aunt Tilly, say) without resorting to the skankiest hardware out there (which is probably still more expensive than obsolete stuff would be, if it were still available).
--
When I am encoding a video on my Windows machine I can't do anything else on my computer, if I try to click something it takes about 30 seconds for the menu to popup.
That's a result of Windows's semi brain-dead priority system. Pop open task manager, find the encoding process (the one that's gobbling all your CPU), right click on it and set priority to 'Low' or 'Idle'.
I used to play Unreal Tournament while encoding videos all the time without a problem. It encodes slower at low priority but UT didn't suffer much of a performance hit. Made me miss my old dual-CPU system though.
Unless of course you're running that 9X/ME crap, which even most Windows users these days realize sucks.
On the Internet, troll is a slang term for a person who posts messages intended to create controversy or provoke an angry response rather than to add content to a discussion.
Your anime example question is "OffTopic".
"All Mac users are gay" is "Flamebait"
"Why would you want to use a mac anyway when Linux is so much better?" is a "Troll".
However asking about comparable processor speeds in a thread talking about how Mac has just released faster processors, is dead on topic.
Norman Cook's Ode to Sl
Looking at the specs, it looks like the following have also changed on the iBook line:
- The default memory doesn't use up the expandable SO-DIMM slot anymore. This previously made upgrading the memory annoying because it was split into 128MB internal and 128MB in the slot, so you were forced to replace memory rather than just add.
- 512KB of L2 cache instead of 256KB.
I got a 1.0GHz iBook a few months ago, but I'm still happy. I wouldn't have waited just for these minor boosts. The SuperDrive may be an option now, but at that price ($280 extra CDN) I'd still rather get an external FireWire drive.
and your laptop has a 1.5 hour battery life, is 3 inches thick, and weights about 10 pounds.
yeah, that would be why no one cares about your laptops.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
Apple's problem, IMHO, is that you can't get a bigger battery for their machines.
The G5 vs Opteron comparison is about right, with the G5 winning out on heavily vector-oriented code. The G4 vs P-M comparison is a bit generous --- the P-M has a much faster memory bus, so you want to dock some points from the G4.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Search for "refurbished" at the Apple Store for great deals. These are usually returns, got a 1GHz G4 17" with 512MB RAM, 60GB drive, superdrive, Airport Extreme, etc., for $2300 there about two months back. In perfect condition, no less.
a laptop three times the cost that is not as feature rich
Not feature rich...?
Does that include the built in Bluetooth? DVD-burner? Thin size and quality design? Firewire 800? Optic Keyboard Sensory? Gigabit ethernet? Mac OS X? (incl. iLife, etc.) and long battery life?
What's so bad about being lazy? What if there was a war and nobody showed up?
Exhibit A (from apple.com 4/19/04)
1.6GHz PowerPC G5
512K L2 cache
256MB DDR333 128-bit SDRAM
80GB Serial ATA
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
64MB DDR video memory
56K internal modem
Price: $1,799.00
Exhibit B (From Dell.com 4/19/04)
Intel ® Pentium® 4 Processor 2.8GHz w/533MHz FSB
256MB Dual Channel DDR SDRAM at 333MHz
80GB Ultra ATA/100 Hard Drive (7200 RPM)
128MB DDR NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200
Integrated Intel® PRO 10/100 Ethernet
56K PCI Data Fax Modem
Price: $768
The Dell includes a monitor, the Mac doesn't. They are identicle in terms of specs, or as close as they can get, but the PC is over $1,000 cheaper. Also keep in mind that if I'd priced the PC as a DIY with the lowest prices from Pricewatch.com, it would have been $100 cheaper.
There are plenty of somewhat good arguments for buying a Mac, but price is not, and has never been, one of them. Why can't Mac users admit they're paying a huge premium for the Mac brand name?
Unfortunately, the yields on the 970FX are nowhere near high enough yet for them to have enough to satisfy demand for G5 Powerbooks.
I currently use a 15" Albook (1.25GHz G4) as my primary machine. The only time it's ever slow is when I'm doing something complicated in Final Cut Express, or running VirtualPC (which runs at about PII 266MHz speed).
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
It is not an CISC vs. RISC issue, it is an IPC-count issue. The G4 typically has better IPC-counts than a P4 thanks to a pipeline flush being a lot cheaper. They are still slower overall of course on account of the P4's pipeline allowing the rather incredible clock frequencies it does. The current G4 is not really cache-starved, at 512 kilobytes of L2 it is behind the P4 but it is not really bad. It features more L1 cache than a P4 and has lower access latencies for both L1 and L2.
All in all the G4 is faster clock-by-clock than the P4 in most cases. It doesnt make it faster than the P4 either way though since it still clocks far too low, but it is a competent CPU.
The $200 laptop. Here's why:
For $1000, you can build 5 $200 laptops and sell them at $800. Gross $4000, net $3000.
For $1000, you can build 2 $500 laptops and sell them at $1500. Gross $3000, net $2000.
So, in your hypothetical case, you should determine demand on the lower-cost laptop, make enough to fill that demand completely, and then use the rest of your manufacturing capacity to make the high-end model.
When you are running on battery, try turning the display brightness down to ~7-8 instead of running it at 10. To my eyes, the difference is not very perceptible, but the improvement in battery life is pretty big.
The resale value on Macs (Powerbooks especially) lets me upgrade the whole thing for less than I could do with an equivalent PC notebook.
Obviously to you, if you don't perceive a need for it, then nobody needs it.
You don't get out much, do you? I know a number of people that have gigabit networks in their homes (including mine), much less at work. There are quite a few inexpensive gigabit ethernet switches on the market, including the NetGear GS108 (8 port) for $150 and the GS105 (5 port) for $80.
With gigabit, I can do AFP or SMB transfers at over 50MB/sec which is a good 5x faster than a 100mb network to/from the network file server, and that is w/o jumbo packets.
Even the slow ATA drive in laptop can push 20-30MB/sec, so network performance would benefit from gigabit over fast ethernet. Try pushing around some video clips and you'll appreciate the speed difference.
I am speaking as a developer on the Win32/.NET platform and home mac laptop/eMac user.
My 12" pbook feels faster than my work P4 2.2 Ghz desktop.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
Psst.... should we tell him that Powerbooks [mine at least] measure brightness based on 16 rather than 10? Nahhh.....
I do agree, though - I turn the brightess down a lot when I'm not plugged in; I've been sitting here about an hour on battery and I still have >65%.
I've got more mod points and GMail invi
The 8600 configured as you speced, except for a 9600Pro w/ SXGA+ screen, and integrated bluetooth is $2,654(they are running a free dvd-burner pro-mo so this will be a little higher after wed). Buying your second stick of 512mb at crucial brings the price down to $2,509
A Powerbook specced similarly, but with a G4 1.5Ghz, a 9700 w/ SXGA+ screen, and a 5400rpm drive is $2,999.00. Buying the second stick at crucial brings the price down to $2,829
The powerbook costs $320 more, pretty close. A sale in the other direction could make the powerbook cheaper.
I want a portable laptop, the 12" powerbook is considerably cheaper than a inspirion 300m, it also has more options.
SS = "spec sheet"
The 15" and 17" PowerBooks include a single Type I & II PC Card slot, and always have. The iBooks don't have it as a means of feature differentiation from the PowerBook line. The 12" PowerBook doesn't have it for obvious reasons.
Of all the people I know with PowerBooks, absolutely none of them have ever used a PC Card in one. Why would you, when every PowerBook since about 1998 has had everything you'd add via PC Card already built-in?
The only thing I can think of anymore that someone might have a use for is a memory card reader-- but why buy a PC Card one and limit yourself when you can use a USB one on any computer?
~Philly
Can't price a dell with one.
1 07 5
But how about this:
1.6Ghz Athlon64
512MB DDR400 ram
120 GB SATA
GeForce 5700, 8x agp, VO
Onboard gigabit ethernet
$1049
http://www.advantagepcinc.com/moreinfo.asp?iid=
First store I found selling Athlon64s on Google. Much lower price, much higher spec.
Desktop Apples are expensive for the spec you get. Always have been, always will be. If what you're getting outside the spec (some people say ease of use, customer support, style, etc) is worth the difference, that's fine by me.
To vaguely get back on topic, the price gap is much smaller for laptops.
I never knew so many people played games with Media Access Control IDs!
;)
perhaps you mean "Mac" as in Macintosh?
Not only did they beef up the processor and videocard they also dropped the price by $500 (cdn)
I'm not attempting to say you are wrong, as I have no experience with that model.
For what it's worth, the heat "problem" was specific to the 12", which is both very dense and cramped internally, and most importantly, doesn't have an always-on fan. The single, tiny, fan in the 12" only comes on at high temperatures.
There are a lot of people who actually don't use their laptop to play or store music on.
Since quite a long time Apple tends to offer laptops that can be your primary computer - not just an add-on to a beige-box under the desk. For an iBook/powerbook user there is no question "why store your music/digital photos/digital movies on your laptop?" - their answer is WHY NOT, ACTUALLY? Try it, and you'll think of returning to the old days of separate desktop/notebook as of moving back to your parents.
I second this. I bought a 12" 867Mhz Aluminum Powerbook last year. The Apple website boasted 5 hours battery life.... I'm lucky to see 2 1/2 doing nothing but browsing the web with the screen at the lowest brightness.
Meanwhile, my boss on his 14" Dell Pentium-M can sit through a 4 hour meeting typing away the whole time while on the wireless network without powering down.
I'll have something intelligent to add one of these days...
Yes, and they ahve been talking about the new PowerBook G5 for six months, and speed bumps for the PowerBook G4's for 8 months, and speed bumps for the G5 for 9 months... and more.
They have no shortage of rumors there. But, I wouldn't count on them to be anything resembling accurate.
Checking out the new IBook on the Apple site I see some major changes that far outweigh the slight processor speed increase.
Memory now maxes out at 1.25 GB instead of 640MB.
Available Superdrive
Built in Airport Extreme in 1.2Ghz model
Downsides:
Still only Firewire 400
I think this makes these the best IBooks yet. It may just be time to upgrade. These are now the best values in the Apple lineup.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on tv.
Same reason there's no $199 ultra-low-end Apple product... margins. Compete right in the middle (or at least not the low end) of the bell curve, where the market supports better margins.
What do you want more -- an Apple and the OS X OS, or a cheap laptop? You can get a desktop eMac NEW for $799. That's a steal. Order one through a school and it's $50 cheaper.
Powerbook for $600? Ha. Not even an iBook.
MAYBE you can find a 700MHz iBook on eBay, used -- or dealmac.com -- for $600. I've seen 500MHz ibooks for sub-500 some months back. These systems are suitable for UNIX or Mac development, which is what I use mine for.
Refurbs are great if you have a warranty.
This is partly true, and partly not. My Powerbook G4 is, hands-down, the most expensive piece of computer equipment I have ever bought. I really can't get around that fact in any way, shape or form; it cost as much as my last two desktop PCs put together, and cost more than the Sony Vaio laptop I had gotten some years ago. I can't really cushion that reality. :)
/in general/ I've found that software -- especially writing, media composition or digital editing software -- has been cheaper on my Mac than my PC. As a result, I've personally found that now that I own the Mac, it's been cheaper to keep it running.
However, my Powerbook is buff enough to work as a desktop if I want it to, and what I've found is that overall I've had a lot less to spend on software for the Mac. For instance, I wanted to get into doing some experimenting with hobbyist moviemaking. Apple's iLife provided me a movie capture and editing tool (iMovie), a DVD authoring tool (iDVD) which works with my Powerbook's DVD drive, and a very nice musical composition program (Garage Band) for $40. Now, none of those programs are the best-of-breed; just within the Mac world, iMovie is flattened features-wise by Apple's own Final Cut Pro, iDVD is flattened by Apple's DVD Studio Pro, and Garage Band is basically Soundtrack's little brother.
However, all of them are more than sufficient for a home user's needs, and pricing comparitive packages for my PC got really expensive really quickly; to find a decent musical composition program which had Garage Band's features for the PC, I had to go up to $90. Which, no, is not that expensive as composition software goes... but does seem a bit pricy compared to $40 for the entire iLife package.
I could give other examples, but suffice it to say that
--Rachel
Apple laptops have ordinary Synaptic's touchpads. You just need a better driver. See here.
Voilá, scrolling areas and tap corners (==5 mouse buttons). Also a Windows-style acceleration mode, which IMO makes the whole touchpad much more useable.
“Wait for Hurd if you want something real” –Linus
Mac: 800 MHz FSB
Uh, you do know that P4 had 800 FSB long before the G5 was even announced, much less actually shipped?
Dell: ATA/100
Mac: SATA
Same chipset that has 800FSB (canterwood or springdale) also has SATA. Once again, before the G5 was paper-launched. Oh, and thats 2 SATA + 2 PATA/100 + Optional SATA RAID + Optional PATA Raid. And the chassis will have room for more than 2 hard drives.
Dell: 100 Mbps Ethernet
Mac: Gigabit Ethernet
Hmm... I wonder if the G5 uses INTEL 1000PRO that apple normally uses. Once again, Gigabit LAN is quite standard on most 800FSB systems. Some of them even have dual LAN, though usually only one is Giga, while the other is 10/100.
Also lacking in the Dell: ports for 802.11g and Bluetooth, FireWire 400 or 800, optical audio I/O ports, AGP 8X, and a capacity of 4 GB of RAM.
Most PC desktops do indeed lackwireless. It's something most useful for notebooks, as most desktops are cabled in. Bluetooth, a technology 10 years old, is also possible on a CTO only, but again, not really needed anyway. Firewire 400 is common on 800FSB chipsets, though it doesn't have 800 (which came out after the 800FSB chips were) Optical I/O ports are, again, part of the 875 chipset package, as is 8x AGP and the capacity for 4GB of dual-DDR400 RAM.
You proved the poster's point: yes, you can build a PC that has fewer features and costs less than a Mac. But you can't find a PC that is feature-comparable to a Mac and yet costs significantly less.
You can also build a PC that has MORE features and STILL costs less than a Mac. I can indeed not only find a PC that has comparable features and costs less, but I can and HAVE built and sold them personally.
A good P4 whitebox built by any local shop worth it's salt can totally destroy a G5 given the same budget. With the amount of budget you would spend even on a 1.6 G5, you can totally deck out a system with a nice case and all the eye candy.
I am guessing you took your specs from the original G5 vs Dell that apple released. The one that featured a dell based on Year-Old technology, vs a G5 that wouldn't hit the stores until like six months later.
Right now I'm looking into getting an old, old laptop with AC adapter for use as a server
you might be interested in mini itx. you've probly seen that before though... but it seems to fit what you're looking for