NetBSD Trademark Application Completed

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NetBSD Trademark Application Completed

Posted by Hemos on Monday April 26, 2004 @05:37AM from the locking-up-the-name dept.

Daniel de Kok writes "The NetBSD Foundation is proud to announce that it has registered the ``NetBSD®'' trademark. The foundation would like to thank Jay Michaelson (Wasabi Systems) for filing the application and providing answers to the US Patent Office, and Carl Oppedahl (Oppedahl & Larson) for giving advice and keeping the Foundation informed about the process. An official policy on the use of the NetBSD® trademark is currently being drafted and will be made public soon."

41 of 177 comments (clear)

trivial? by Joceyln+Parfitt · 2004-04-26 05:39 · Score: 2, Interesting

the NetBSD 'core' must have a lot of money if they can spend thousands on little things like trademarks (especially ironical considering the BSD licence almost like public domain, you'd think these people wouldn't care about copyrights and trademarks, etc).

Looking at the application:

Filing Date: 2000-09-12

That must have cost a fortune in lawyer fees. But then, if this is what it takes to further improve their already great product (I run it on my IPAQ!), more power to them.

--

eden.h4xx.com - whacky free for all image board
1. Re:trivial? by heironymouscoward · 2004-04-26 05:45 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Actually the cost of a trademark registration is quite reasonable. You can do the discovery and filing for around $1000, possibly less if you do some of the paperwork yourself.
  
  IANAL but I have a few trademarks.
  
  Patents... OTOH cost 10x more to start with, and considerably more after that if you try to defend them.
  
  So a registered trademark is a good investment for a small company that fears competition.
  
  I don't see the immediate benefit to NetBSD, however.
  
  --
  Ceci n'est pas une signature
2. Re:trivial? by drinkypoo · 2004-04-26 05:45 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  It's probably taken so long because they didn't want to spend a lot of money on lawyer fees. Cross the right palms with silver, and things happen amazingly quickly. Fail to do so, and they happen amazingly slowly.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
3. Re:trivial? by DAldredge · 2004-04-26 05:52 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Perhaps because both are issued, in the US, by the Patent and Trademark office? :->
4. Re:trivial? by RazzleFrog · 2004-04-26 05:53 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Copyrights are issued by the Library of Congress no the USPTO. I suppose it would be the USPTCO if they did.
5. Re:trivial? by dpille · 2004-04-26 06:09 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  around $1000, possibly less if you do some of the paperwork yourself
  
  But the orignal post is quite right- in this case it must have cost a comparative fortune. Looking at the prosecution history, you can see two office actions and an appeal. I'm not sure "DIY" is even in the ballpark for non-lawyer IP professionals (let alone the average guy) in such circumstances.
  
  There's some additional prosecution history here if you're curious. Gotta say, the approach to get around the objections based on registrations for BSD and FREEBSD (see the 11/26/02 doc) is pretty interesting, and certainly emphasizes that getting a NETBSD registration required a fair amount of work/resources.
6. Re:trivial? by TheRealMindChild · 2004-04-26 06:13 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Saves on having to hunt down and kill the jerk that forks NetBSD and calls it NetBSD. This would have saved a lot of hell with MySQL.
  
  --
  
  "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
7. Re:trivial? by beebware · 2004-04-26 06:16 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  True, don't you just hate it when companies register trademarks - first Microsoft, now NetBSD - next you'll know Linux will become "evil". Oh, wait...
8. Re:trivial? by Eraser_ · 2004-04-26 09:00 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Is NetBSD a registered non- or not-for- profit organization? If so, who is to say they didn't get some of the work pro-bono as a tax write off? Offer many hours free in exchange for repayment of real out of pocket expenses and write the rest off as donation to a non-profit.
  
  Organizations like these have many friends in many places. Who is to say a spouse or friend of a NetBSD developer/PR person didn't write some of these documents in their spare time? Friend of mine traded some internet access and good social engineering for a few hours of lawyer time to draw up some TOS and 1year contracts for the wireless internet he was going to sell to his neighbors.
9. Re:trivial? by bccomm · 2004-04-26 12:01 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Is NetBSD a registered non- or not-for- profit organization?
  
  Only recently was it announced, but, yes, it is 501(c)(3)-compliant.
How long... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-26 05:40 · Score: 2, Funny

...till Lindows trys to release LetBSD?
Wot? Includin' t' ® (R) symbol as well? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-26 05:40 · Score: 3, Funny

Doesn't the ® (R) symbol signify that the text before is registered ... it sounds like they've registered "NetBSD®" as a trademark ... making it NetBSD®® hehehe
What is a typical cost? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-26 05:44 · Score: 2, Interesting

What would be considered a typical cost to trademark a name? USPTO fee? Does one really need a lawyer? If something trademarked here, what is the cost to trademark it worldwide? Does one need to go to each countries trademark office or can one file with the WTO (world Trade Office) equivalent and do it all in one place?
1. Re:What is a typical cost? by saddino · 2004-04-26 06:46 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  1) Typical cost is $350 from the USPTO if you apply for it yourself (it's really not that hard: copyright and trademark protection is straightforward, unlike the patent process), and extra if you go through an attorney. Note: you need to use the trademark to protect it (i.e. you can just apply for a trademark to "hold on to it"). In most cases that's a given, since you're applying for the trademark to protect a good or service you're selling.
  
  2) Trademarks in the US protect your rights in the US only. There is no "do it all in one place" route either. IANAL, but my wife is. Some of her clients apply for trademark protection in every country they do business in (60+ registrations). If you're interested in international protection, then you basically have to use a lawyer.
wait by Hinkey · 2004-04-26 05:45 · Score: 5, Insightful

"An official policy on the use of the NetBSD® trademark is currently being drafted and will be made public soon" how can you condem them before you even hear there policy on the use of the trademark?

--
-=Hinkey=-
1. Re:wait by Kenja · 2004-04-26 05:49 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  " how can you condem them before you even hear there policy on the use of the trademark?"
  Its realy very easy, all it takes is a desire to hate somthing. Just like the Linux & Mac haters that have never used the platforms or the Windows haters that think its unchanged since the broken Windows 95 systems they last used.
  
  --
  
  "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
2. Re:wait by Lord+Kano · 2004-04-26 08:09 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Its realy very easy, all it takes is a desire to hate somthing. Just like the Linux & Mac haters that have never used the platforms or the
  
  I am what most people would call a Mac hater, and I have extensive experience with the platform.
  
  I was a Mac user for 10 years. I know the platform inside and out. I just have become disenchanted.
  
  My dislike comes from not a position of ignorance, but one of knowledge based dislike.
  
  LK
  
  --
  "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
*BSD Anthem: Last Disk by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-26 05:46 · Score: 3, Funny

[to the tune of Last Kiss by pearl jam]
Oh where, oh where is my BSD?
I just loaded it yesterday.
It's gone to heaven, so I've got to be good,
So I can see the OS when I leave this world.

I'd started to load it in my roommate's Dell,
the hard drive was taking it pretty well.
During the load, it crashed the heads,
the distro was stalled, *BSD was dead.
I couldn't stop, so I yanked the cord.
I'll never forget, the sound , oh Lord--
the screamin' drives, the speaker's blast,
the painful scream that I-- heard last.

Oh where, oh where is my *BSD?
That load took it away from me.
It's gone to heaven, so I've got to be good,
So I can see *BSD when I leave this world.

When I woke up, the sparks were pourin down.
There were admins standin all around.
Some fragments of chips gotten in my eyes,
but somehow I found my *BSD that night.
I lifted the CD, the devil winked and said,
"Load me darlin just a little while."
I held it close, I kissed the label--our last kiss.
I found the love that i knew i had missed
well now it's gone, even I loaded it right
I lost my *BSD and the Dell-- that night.

Oh where, oh where is my *BSD?
I tried to load it yesterday.
It's gone to heaven so I've got to be good,
So I can see *BSD when I leave this world.
1. Re:*BSD Anthem: Last Disk by xoran99 · 2004-04-26 06:09 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Isn't that song a cover of something from the fifties? J. Frank Wilson and the Cavaliers. It was their only hit.
  
  --
  Karma: Bad (mostly due to all those "In Soviet Russia" jokes)
In other news... by Ckwop · 2004-04-26 05:47 · Score: 4, Funny

Slashdot gets sued for trademark infringement..

hehe

Si.
Logo? by KevinDumpsCore · 2004-04-26 05:48 · Score: 2, Interesting

Yes, but do they have a logo to go with that trademark yet? (http://www.netbsd.org/Changes/#logo-contest-close d)
This seems more like a BFD, so what story... by feloneous+cat · 2004-04-26 05:49 · Score: 2, Interesting

I mean, frankly, what does this buy them? Anything?

I'm more puzzled than angered.

--
IANAL, but I've seen actors play them on TV
1. Re:This seems more like a BFD, so what story... by RazzleFrog · 2004-04-26 05:57 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  It protects them from somebody going out and writing an entirely new Operating System and selling it under the name NetBSD.
2. Re:This seems more like a BFD, so what story... by sir_cello · 2004-04-26 06:16 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  > It protects them from somebody going out and writing an entirely new Operating System and selling it under the name NetBSD.
  
  There are a number of benefits to registration: the team could prevent the use of NetBSD on _any_ distributions unless they authorise (e.g. such as a "NetBSD+custom distribution" would not be able to use the NetBSD mark).
  
  It could be used with customs to prevent import of counterfeit "official" CD's, or even the use of NetBSD on unofficial release CD's.
  
  For example, when a NetBSD release is generated, currently nothing stops anyone from building and releasing their own NetBSD distribution CD from the CVS tag. Now, the owners of the mark will be able to prevent this if they choose to.
Re:Final Straw? by OrangeTide · 2004-04-26 05:52 · Score: 4, Informative

Linux is also trademarked

(excerpt from that site)
Examples of Use Requiring A License.
On the other hand, if you plan to market a product or offer a service to the public using a mark that identifies the LINUX based product under a name that you consider your product name, like "Super Dooper Linux" or "Real Time Linux Consultants" you are required to apply for and obtain the low cost one time royalty license described elsewhere on this web site. This is true whether you actually apply for a trademark for your product or service name, because you are using the mark in a trademark sense, and it is important that the public know that LINUX is the base mark owned by Linus, and that the derivative mark you have adopted is your particular version of Linux.

Beside our need to protect the Linux mark for all of us in the industry, this process allows us to prevent improper uses of the mark that might eventually result in someone obtaining a trademark with the word Linux in it that suggests that they are the sole source of Linux or the sole authority to certify some aspects of use or training concerning Linux. For this reason we have refused to license marks like "Linux University" or "The Linux Certification Board."
(end-excerpt)

It's pretty reasonable for NetBSD to want the same protection from dillution for it's valuable brandname. And it's hardly the first open source OS to get it's name trademarked.

--
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
And what about the new logo? by Anthony+Boyd · 2004-04-26 05:54 · Score: 3, Interesting

I hope I'm still in the running. Anyone else enter? I sure wish I could see my competition.

--
My Greasemonkey scripts for Digg &
1. Re:And what about the new logo? by hubertf · 2004-04-26 11:00 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  We're still sorting the >400 submissions out. Sorry for the delay, we hope to get to the final state of the logo finding soon.
  
  - Hubert
Huh? by jabbadabbadoo · 2004-04-26 05:54 · Score: 2, Funny

They registered ``NetBSD®'' ???
Oh no, they should have registed ``NetBSD'' instead.
It is trivial! by eman1961 · 2004-04-26 05:55 · Score: 5, Informative

I have filed my own paperwork on a couple of trademarks, and the total cost is less than $500. If I remember correctly, the cost of the final filing is about $350, which goes to pay an attorney employed at the patent and trademark office. If you are careful, and understand what can be trademarked, and what cannot, it is really rather easy.
Acquiring such a trademark means that it is somewhat easier to enforce that others do not use the trademark in their own product names.
1. Re:It is trivial! by jd · 2004-04-26 06:29 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  $500 is hardly trivial, compared to the money they must be making. Nobody ever accused *BSD of being a money-spinner. It may be good, but it isn't there to make a profit.
  
  Then, there's the risk-factor. What, really, is the risk of a competing *BSD distribution taking the name of "NetBSD"? Again, no insult intended, but it's not got the mindshare to be seriously at risk. It's not Rolls Royce, for example.
  
  Finally, what could the money have been spent on, otherwise? $500 is a week's worth of documenting, or maybe even a student hand-out for re-writing the installer. Wouldn't those have been more valuable?
  
  Nonetheless, it's done. Time enough to regret the decision later. Now, it's a matter of figuring out what it actually means in practice. Is this a device to prevent code forks and/or another split-off? Were there core members threatening to form a breakaway distribution of their own?
  
  And if internal politics were the reason, why not settle the issues peacefully? Is hostility the only way things can get done anymore? I hope not.
  
  --
  It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
2. Re:It is trivial! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-26 07:05 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Then, there's the risk-factor. What, really, is the risk of a competing *BSD distribution taking the name of "NetBSD"?
  
  Someone tried to steal the term "Linux" in 1994 or so, long before anyone heard of it or cared. You can bet it cost Torvolds a lot more money in lawyer fees to trademark a contested term than if he had registered first.
  
  There's a lot of really important reasons to own a trademark. Without one, forgetting to renew a domain name could be a disaster. There's also hostile code forks, etc etc etc.
  
  Look at FreeBSD -- it's trademarked, but the trademark is owned by a hostile company and not by FreeBSD. In theory, they could be required to change their name! The reputation cost would be a lot more than a thousand bucks.
  
  Maybe you are a poor student and $1000 sound like a lot of money, but frankly if any of the NetBSD people have a real job, this isn't financially prohibitive.
3. Re:It is trivial! by jhunsake · 2004-04-26 07:58 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  $500 is oh-so-trivial
  
  Most people can make $500 in a day (eg painting a house). Many people can make $500 in a few hours. And there are still a lot of people that can make $500 in less than an hour. Sure, it may pay a student to do something, but that is hardly an accurate depiction of time-is-money.
Everyone knows the patent office is... by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) · 2004-04-26 06:05 · Score: 4, Funny

..understaffed and underqualified. There's probably loads of prior art. I bet there are everything from cereals to tampons already called NetBSD. You mark my words!

--
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
New Logo Too? by nurb432 · 2004-04-26 06:09 · Score: 2, Interesting

How is that process coming along? Now would be a good time for them to release it.

--
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Debian NetBSD projects? by molo · 2004-04-26 06:17 · Score: 3, Interesting

I wonder if this is going to effect the Debian GNU/NetBSD and Debian GNU/KNetBSD porting projects. I'm curious to see their use policy.

-molo

--
Using your sig line to advertise for friends is lame.
1. Re:Debian NetBSD projects? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-26 06:29 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  See http://lists.debian.org/debian-bsd/2003/debian-bsd -200312/msg00098.html and the following discussion...
This Gives Me An Idea! by Goo.cc · 2004-04-26 06:30 · Score: 4, Funny

I think that I am going to rush out and trademark "BSD Is Dying", that way I prevent usage of that term on troll /. posts! Patent office, here I come!
Yep, see here by RAMMS+EIN · 2004-04-26 06:45 · Score: 2, Funny

new logo.

(note the date of that post)

--
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
no risk from a competing bsd, but.... by zogger · 2004-04-26 06:48 · Score: 2, Informative

...perhaps a big risk from other quarters with deep pockets who might think it cute to do so, and might do it through a daisy chian of proxies first to obfuscate who's behind it. Perhaps, pure speculation of course. I can think of a few places to whom 500 clams doesn't even qualify as pocket lint,but the idea of monkey wrenching in advance any ever potential future competitor might seem like making "good business sense", so maybe NetBSD being proactive before the fact of needing a trademark is a good thing and good idea.
Do they really expect us to remember the Ascii #s? by bfg9000 · 2004-04-26 08:14 · Score: 4, Funny

Damn®. Being Politically Correct®" and using all those Godawful Stupid Symbols® is F**king Irritating®.

--
I'm not normally an irrational zealous dickhead, but I figure "When in Rome..."
What to do with the trademark? by markhb · 2004-04-26 08:34 · Score: 2, Funny

Add it to the license!

3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software must display the following acknowledgement: This product includes software developed and originally released under the NetBSD® trademark.
;-)

--
Save Maine's economy: write stuff down. All comments are exclusively my own, not my employer.