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CableCARDs and HDTV
An anonymous reader writes: "HDTV is the next big thing. I attended the NAB conference in Las Vegas last week and everyone was pitching HDTV or asking about it. DesignTechnica has an interesting article on CableCARDS, which allows viewing HDTV through a CableCARD compatible HDTV set without needing a set top box. Cable companies are required to enable CableCARDs with card-compatible HDTVs by July 1, 2004. So here's some questions: Has anyone heard of CableCARD? Is anyone planning on buying a CableCARD compatible TV? How many people actually get HDTV in their area, and how many channels? HDTV is so hyped right now but seems that there is barely any deployment."
... if you had never heard of it and you read /. ... its probably nothing ;p
Maan
The FCC recently stated that all cables boxes that offer HDTV now must have working firewire outputs. This of course lets users now record the transport stream right off the cable box, and allows DVR's to do the same. The regular broadcast channels are required to be unscrambled at all times, but the premium channels are kind of up in the air at the moment and will probably require more decryption at the end. The question is, will DVR's such as Tivo, start coming with this cardcapable thing so that decryption can happen and let us record even scrambled shows?
It looks incredible. I download HDTV rips whenever I can because even heavily compressed, it blows away my standard TV signal.
There's maybe 3 or 4 high definition channels available right now. On my cable system in Oklahoma there are 6 full-time HD channels and 3 locals which carry a significant amount of HD programming. Just because you don't watch HD doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Go type in your zip code over at I Want MY HDTV.com and see how many channels are available in your area.
The problem with HDTV and digital broadcasting right now is there's very little HD content. Some examples..
PBS around here (San Jose/San Francisco) only broadcasts HD starting at 8pm. They however have pretty decent content and it's all HD when they say it will be. It looks great, it's just limited in what they show.
The rest of the broadcast networks have very little content. Maybe one or two shows a day at best and the occaisional sports event. NBC had the Kentucky Derby in HD yesterday, but it wasn't even advertised as such and I didn't know if it would be HD until I turned it on.
And one of the problems with some of the "HD" broadcasts is that a lot of the cameras they're using aren't even HD. They're standard definition that's then upconverted to either 720p or 1080i. Or if you're Fox, 480p 16x9. So a good bit of "HD" sports is actually just clean SD.
Then there's stuff like ESPNHD. They usually just take the ESPN feed and stretch it to 16x9 which is really lame. They have maybe 4 or 5 events in actual HD per week.
And then there's also the question of how do you get the content? I tried over the air with an antenna and that was just painful. Even a fairly high gain one didn't work too well for me. You can't get broadcast HD over any of the DBS services (Dish, DirecTV, Voom) except CBS. You have to generally get Cable TV for that. So I got Comcast out here and get all the broadcast stuff. But it's still more cost effective for me to have basic digital HD service on cable for HD broadcast content and also have Dish Network 200 service for all the other content.
And I hardly watch TV. Sigh. But I got a HDTV so I really want to watch HD content when I can.
The service I'm currently looking at switching to is Voom which is a DBS service from Cablevision that has something like 30 HD channels, many of which are their own content. It's about the same price as Dish Network, but has fewer channels. Luckily mostly the ones I watch from time to time. I'd have to keep cable for the broadcast channels.
Some people might say it's a waste of time. And they're probably right. But HD does look awesome so at least it's kinda fun.
I signed up for DirectTV HDTV about two months ago. I was an existing directTV customer but I still talked them into selling me the equipment for 99.00 (normally 399.00). The equipment consists of a Samsung HD DTV receiver and a new dish to pick up the HD channels. (also picks up all the international channels DTV offers)
.02
Channel Lineup:
ESPN
Discovery HD
HDMovies (Movie channel showing various movies from classics to recent favorites)
HDNet - pretty much a worthless channel showing repeats of recent Nascar Races, Horse, Races, and concerts. They also have some original series on it (I think).
CBSHD - I live in Utah and they allow me to pick up the CBS HD feed from LA. This is great because I can watch my shows an hour later in HD without needing the off air ant.
If you subcribe:
HBOHD - The regular HBO in HD.
SHOWTime HD - The regular showtime in HD.
Cost: Basis HD is 10.95 a month. HBO is 12.00 a month and Showtime is 10.00 a month.
Is it worth it?
Hmm.... I can tell you this. I am a big fan of Sopranos and Deadwood (HBO series) and love watching them in HD. I also enjoy watching Golf in High def on the weekends. You can tell a HUGE DIFFERENCE between the shows in HD and regular shows. People come over and just say WOW to the sporting events. Movies are not that much different.
So, its worth the money (10.95 a month) to me just to get golf in HD on CBS on the weekends. Basketball playoffs are also great. Its hard to watch golf/basketball in non-hd now.
Cons:
No STINKING TIVO!!!!!! I can't wait for the HDTivo to be affordable.
Just my
Since I have built my own DVR (four tuners, hardware decoder, using this software, I would really like to be able to upgrade to HDTV tuner cards and keep my DVR.
Are you listening Hauppauge?
The dogcow says "Moof!"
A 114" HDTV to be precise. Doesn't everybody have one, or are you one of those welfare-receiving, MacDonalds eating East LA pieces of trash. Come out to the Cape sometime (that's Cape Cod, you ignorant baffoons), and I'll show it to you after we take a spin in my Aston Martin, you pathetic mendicant.
between digital cable and direct tv satellite, I've always thought that a set top box hinders the viewer from the easiest viewing experience. A feture like picture-in-picture is lost. It requires you to program another remote, and for some people this is a pain. It can require the user to have two remotes, one to turn on the tv, switch it to cable input, and adjust the volume and then one to changed the channel and use the converter box.
For me it's not that big a deal, but for people who aren't engineers the logic of how to turn on the tv and change the channel is actually difficult for them to understand. Say for example, the television I purchased had a standard digital cable converter built in, it would make it a lot easier to use the service. Maybe it could work by the cable company sets up the firmware so make it more customized for their customers.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but I should not have two remotes to watch tv, and I don't think I should have to deal with programming those multi-remotes either. Finding the codes when those batteries die at this point in the game is a waste of time in my mind.
Maybe this issue of remotes sounds petty, but this would be one of the main driving forces in getting people to buy a new television if the sales clerk can relate this ease of use to them.
Man, that's a terrible site.
It just lists all the stations within ~200 miles of you, and says if they are providing HDTV or not... According to that list, I should be recieving about 30 TV stations, and about a dozen in HDTV. In fact, there are no HDTV stations available because of range, and that won't change until an HDTV re-broadcaster is installed around here.
For a MUCH BETTER TV look-up, try antennaweb.org.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Blah you mix memes here.
The reason the government is involved is because airwaves are 'public'
Democracy works fine. Vote for people who will care about what you care about, and educate others to care about what you care about.
Refuse to purchase what doesn't suit you.
In the end companies will lose business, if you are right, and politicians who gain power will lose corporate financing.
GPL Deconstructed
For a CARD that goes into my computer so that I can watch digital CABLE. Now they've stolen the name with a completely different concept. What the fuck?
[insert witty comment here]
I own a Hitachi HD widescreen RPTV and a Sony HS20 HD Front Projector. I have both OTA and DirecTV STBs; here are the channels available in my area:
Broadcast OTA:
WGBH-DT PBS 2-1 SDTV and 2-2 HD channel
WBZ-DT CBS 4-1 HD
WLVI-DT ABC 5-1 HD
WCVB-DT NBC 7-1 HD
WFXT-DT FOX 25-1 Widescreen SDTV
WSBK-DT UPN 38-1 HDTV (Enterprise is in HD, for what little that's worth)
WLVI-DT WB 56-1 HDTV (Smallville is in HD, for what little that's worth)
Over DirecTV Sat:
76 Discovery HD
78 HDNET Movies (lame movies no one remembers, in HD)
79 HDNET (some interesting stuff like quality reporting, some lame stuff like old Charlie's Angel's and Hogan's Hero's repeats, in HD)
85 Pay Per View in HD
88 HBO-HD
91 Showtime-HD
-------
Boston is a good area for OTA HD. Also, the local cable company Comcast has finally gone HD and will rent an HD box for $7/mo. If you only have an HD ready set and want a cheap STB, Comcast is definitely the way to go (I went Sat before Comcast rolled HD out). You can also pick up a cheap OTA STB these days for about $200. The Sat STBs are, IMO, not really worth it. If I were buying today, I would go cable or OTA only. Note that HD TIVO has recently been released and should be on store shelves now or very soon.
HD is broadcast in most major metropolitan markets now. And don't forget the advantage a widescreen TV offers for DVDs. It really is worth the money, IMO.
Cheers,
--Maynard
High definition channels, with widescreen programming:
ABC local affiliate
CBS "" (you haven't lived until you've seen CSI:Miami in HD
NBC ""
Fox ""
PBS ""
The WB ""
UPN ""
Discovery HD theatre
HBO-HD (Sopranos in HD, bada-bing, plus all the movies are upconverted to 1080i from their original film source msking them that much nicer than the DVD equivalent at 480p)
Showtime-HD (same as HBO)
INHD and INHD2 (an assortment of various HD programming, sports-looks like your are watching through a window in the luxury box, movies, specials, concerts, IMax movies)
HDnet HDnet Movies (various programming like INHD)
HDNets and INHDs are $6 mo. to subscribe. HBO and Showtime are included if you get them regularly. All the other channels are free with digital cable, so there is no additional fee to lease the HD set top box. The only downside is that once you've seen HD you can't go back. Other channels start looking like crap to you.
I imagine it is the same for all Time Warner Cable subscribers, but here in Austin, HDTV has enough channels to make it worth while. Half of our local broadcast stations are up {CBS,ABC}, 2 iNHD channels (movies, sports, etc), Discovery HD Theatre, Fox HD, HDNet, HDMovie, HBO HD and Showtime HD. Most of the programming is good, the box outputs any format you would want, up to 1080i. The HD Decoder box is the same price as the regular digital box. I haven't checked out the Firewire capability, but the port is there, I just don't own a cable.
Then there's stuff like ESPNHD. They usually just take the ESPN feed and stretch it to 16x9 which is really lame. They have maybe 4 or 5 events in actual HD per week.
I couldn't agree more; ESPN has really dropped the ball here. The major networks broadcast sporting events in HD most of the time. And HDNET usually beats ESPN for broadcasting HD sporting events too. Don't buy the DirecTV HD package for ESPN, that's all I have to say. --M
Suprised no ones mentioned this yet, but theres a new satelite provider, Voom, offering over 40 channels of hi-def programming. It seems to run about the same as standard services, $40 or so a month up to around $80 with all the premiums.
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
I don't know about you, but I pay just $20/month more than you do here in Philly, and I have cable modem, HBO, Showtime, HDTV digital cable box, etc. Pretty happy really.
How many people actually get HDTV in their area, and how many channels?
Actually, nearly all of the networks in nearly all of the major markets are broadcasting HDTV. If you're not in a major market, coverage is far spottier, but a substantial fraction of the people in the US do live in a major market.
The number of people actually receiving the signals is pretty low, since the TVs are expensive, but the digital signal is there, in lower resolution. The actual high-definition content is pretty low, since it's expensive to produce (requiring new cameras and other equipment), and so people aren't buying the very pricey TVs. No content, no viewers; no viewers, no content.
It also doesn't help that we're still waiting on standards like high-definition DVDs. Supposedly that's busily being resolved. They're also finally starting to put out the high-definition content over cable wires (which many people in the major markets have) and satellite systems (which are immensely popular among people too far from a major market to get cable, and also among those who find the cable companies obnoxious).
Me, I'm waiting on a cheap digital-to-analog converter so I can watch the new signal on my old TV, since the signal is clearer than analog.
We dont have HDTV in the UK, but our digital services are now really very good. (quite low compression on most channels less artifacts). From what I've seen of cable in the US, (comcast) you seem to have a mixture of digital and analog going into the same box. And on a number of the digital channels you can definitely see the tell-tale mpeg artifacts. Over here our cable co's switched completely from analog to digital (all the cable channels are digital, and i think the same can be said for satellite now) We still have 5 analog terrestrial channels ; supplemented by terrestrial digital which requires a set top box (picture quality is also very good)
However having great picture quality is not a huge incentive for many people to pay the cost for the hardware. Sure from a geeky perspective its great to have sexy hardware etc. But at the end of the day it doesnt make the tv programmes any better. TV in the UK has really gone down hill over the past few years, there is rarely anything worth watching on TV anymore.
The main reason I would buy a HDTV if we had them available over here. Would be for playing video games, and watching HD-DVD's if and when they are available. I simply cant imagine the incentive to watch crap like Eastenders or Coronation Street in HDTV, Higher resolution is not going to make these programs any better.
I'd much prefer to get a space saving tv like an LCD or Plasma to be honest. CRT's should have been consigned to the scrap heap years ago.
nick.
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
Try to find a true HDTV Monitor. No, not HTDV compatible, but really HDTV.
It's not 1024x768 (DMD) or even 1280x1024 (LCOS). It's 1920x1080. Didn't the industry learn from the lawsuits on disk drive size and display diagonal measurements? (Of course they did, they learned that lying generates far more profit than the resulting lawsuits consume.)
I think it's kind of a rip that there's a ton of hype over HDTV, and that people are rushing off to buy HDTV "compatible" TVs, spending nearly $10,000 for some, and not one is true HDTV. Of course, in a year or two when the plasma screen finally fades away, the replacement model might actually be HDTV.
OK, there are videophiles who know the difference, and dig up something real like a nice Barco CRT projector. But most people are being defrauded.
Nicolas Negroponte said it best:
"When you look at television, ask yourself: What's wrong with it? Picture resolution? Of course not. What's wrong is the programming."
I'm an electronics salesperson at Sears and I looked up this CableCARD business a month ago when I was reviewing the new lineup of televisions we are slated to get around August. From what i was able to gather, the cable companies will be required to issue you a card, probably some form of smartcard, that you can insert into your CableCARD/HDTV ready set and it will instantly unlock all of your standard/digital/high definition programming. To me this seems like a big plus in making HDTV deployment easier for "the masses". I cannot tell you how many people come to me and want an HDTV integrated set believe that it will allow them to recieve HDTV programming from either satellite or cable. After explaining that they will only recieve broadcast and they still need a set-top box they are usually rather peeved at the whole HDTV transition nightmare. So, from my POV i would have to say that this is a good thing. Now if only it was a DirecTV card instead of cable i would be even happier. Cable in my city is absolute trash (Comcast). So when these sets arrive i will have the dilemna of whether or not to advocate them just because i don't want to force crappy service on my customers. I still like the old RCA 38" widescreen CRT HDTV with integrated broadcast and DirecTV reciever. I just think that set was released ahead of its time and was an RCA :(
The FCC is going to require firewire on all cable boxes.
link
The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
I watch DVDs and play games in HD.
There's more to using an HDTV set than just broadcast video
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
The HD DVD consortium has yet to approve a standard. It's expected that they will decide and manufacturers and content providers will have product on the market within the next year or two. Currently, JVC manufacturs an HD VCR (the JVC-HD3000 and newer HD4000). This takes standard and HQ digital VHS tapes. Some film distributors have released films on the new format, but not all, and the content is "protected" by an encryption system similar to DVD CSS. If you're looking for HD films on tape, it's available but limited. I'd say, wait for HD DVD if that's all you care about. But a Widescreen television is still useful for 480p DVD output. I looks wonderful. --M
If broadcasters prevent people from recording the shows, less people are going to watch them. They know this.
The broadcast flag, to my recollection, is there to prevent you from making a copy of a copy. You can record it but you can't send the recording to someone else. It makes sense for anti-piracy purposes but it also prevents you from lending the recording to a friend who forgot to record it or watching it in a different room without moving the DVR, or possibly making a backup copy of something you wish to keep but not on the DVR.
I have a suspicion that the broacast flag is going to annoy enough people that broadcast-flag enabled DVRs wont replace the VCR which, although of much lower quality, will give them more functionality. People don't like buying new technology that does less than the old.
People's desire to believe they are right is much stronger than their desire to be right.
I bet you actually thought people actually agreed on something right? Wrong, the CableCard is not a simple smartcard a la DirecTV. The CableCard "slot" is extactly that, a standard "slot" with a standard CableCard "bus". The card issued to you will be more like the PCI, AGP PCI-X etc. expansion cards we are used to in computers exept that these will be fatter and look more like a SBAWE32 with the daughtercard and all the addional Soundfont ram installed.
All that said, its still better than a set-top, but a long way from actually agreeing upon a standard so that the card was JUST A SMARTCARD with account info on it.
General HD opinion from an owner of 2 years that catches it via OTA and cable:
Clear and crisp until something fast happens or a quick pan or scene transition. MPEG-2 really shows its age with HD.
HD will hit is mark when things are changed to MPEG-4. and Cable and the networks start playing nice so Cable will carry ALL of the stations you can currently get OTA (Over the air).
Best combo: VOOM and OTA. Best part. the VOOM box has got the OTA tuner built in.
Plus ANAMORPHIC Dvds look great on HDTVs. Other dvds that are in widescreen but not mastered properly (not in anamorphic) look aweful when using a tv zoom function.
I could talk for years on the subject
...to see what exactly HDTV-DVD will mean. 720p60? 720p30 1080i60 1080p24? If and when I'm getting an HDTV, I want to see movies on it. 2/3rds downscaling (1080->720) would suck (take 3 lines, combine down to two... far worse than 2 lines native). On the other hand, getting a much more expensive 1080 set makes no sense if 720 will be the standard, due to size constraints or whatever.
And have they finally agreed on a *final* standard that won't be cut off or downscaled later (analog, firewire, HDMI???). A TV isn't like my computer, that one gets upgraded or replaced quite often. They need to tell me what exactly I can expect to get, not today, but several years ahead. So far, they haven't done that.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Can't you see that everyone is buying station wagons?
The problem here is that you expect manufacturers to build to the 1080i/p standard before the technology exists. The best sets for high resolution out there are still CRT based, because LCD (and that goes for LCoS too) and DLP technologies simply don't offer more than 720p resolution at the consumer end of the market. In fact, there are no DLP chips out there that do more than 1280x720, and the high end of LCD Front/Rear projection is still 1366x768 (Sony HS-20). Only a CRT offers full 1440x1080i resolution, because CRTs are inherently analog technology from the electron beam out to phosphor.
If you want full 1920x1080 resolution you must either wait for LCD/DLP technology to progress to native HD spec resolution (probably two chip generations away before it hits consumer), or buy a very high end CRT based system. I have an HS-20 LCD front projector (720p native) and a Hitachi 51S500 RPTV; a low end model with three 7" CRTs and semi-decent optics. It only supports 1080i at 1440x1080. The better RPTVs use 9"CRTs, with better optics, but they're still limited to 1440x1080. The only "real" CRT systems out there that do full 1080i spec are commercial units for pre and post production, usually costing somewhere in the range of $25K - $30K.
Why is this? Because the scan times for 1080i and 1080/24p are insanely fast, and the bandwidth requirements are insanely high. It's not just a computer monitor. And with an RPTV, the convergence issues alone get in the way of full 1080i. Really, the upshot here is that full 1080i spec was written long before the technology existed to display such resolutions. Only today with the migration away from CRT to digital LCD/DLP chip technologies are we coming close to display devices capable of real 1080i. And note, plasma doesn't even come close.
Anyway, feel bad about it all you want, but I think the manufacturers are doing a fine job with implementing the standard given current technology. I note that my 51" RPTV with the higher resolution isn't much nicer than images projected against my 117" screen at 720p. Honestly, one can't tell the difference, though 480p from DVDs does suffer with such a large screen size.
The real PITA has been the fight over DRM and copy controls interfering with rollout of content and obsoleting old HD displays. There will be a lot of very pissed off customers once they realize their component only HD sets are worthless for HD content in the next few years.
Cheers,
--Maynard
There's a good "FAQ" on this from the AVS Forum :
= &t hreadid=199439
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s
"
The "copy flags" can have states of "always copy", "copy once" and "copy never".
"
Max.
The CableCARD is shaped just like a PCMCIA card and if you go to BestBuy, Circuit City, or similar right now, you can see Panasonic HDTVs with the slot right on the front. http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/se rvlet/ModelDetail?storeId=11251&catalogId=11005&mo delNo=PT-56TWD63
Only they are not "documented" as CableCARD because the service is not available yet, so the sales folks have no idea what the slot is for.
Nonetheless, it is there on those Panasonic sets. Probably others too.
Basically, what it does is make the TV DIGITAL CABLE READY, just like all TV sets made since the late 1980s are "Cable Ready" and do not need a STB for tuning regular unscrambled channels; "Expanded Basic" service.
However, if you want the premium channels, you needed a STB or descrambler, except for the fact most of the cable providers have moved most, if not all premium channels from Analog to Digital.
Now if you want to read more about CableCARD, there are several nice "White Papers" at www.motorola.com, or www.cablelabs.org.
These sites explain how the card works, and how, unlike Dish/DTV, the receiver should be able to communicate with the cable company via the cable itself, no phoneline connection required.
I went to the local Comcast tech center where I live and did find out that these cards are NOT transportable between areas, due to the fact they are authenticated to the physical street address where they are installed (basically they should work anywhere on that specific cable trunk, but not across town) and possibly to a specific serialized/addressable receiving device (TV, Tivo, PC Card etc.).
This will not be easy to "hack" for those who are already thinking about it, as the CableCARD is not just a PCMCIA memory card, but supposedly has an encryption ASIC on it which compliments the QAM Tuner chip in the receiver, which itself was designed from the start with encryption in mind. Never mind the Broadcast Flag, the whole thing is DRM'd up the butt.
An interesting note for the PC crowd....most SONY DTVs use ATI HDTV tuners, so hopefully we will see Digital Cable Ready cards for PCs.
This is a big deal because all of the current HDTV card providers have no problem with OTA HDTV tuning, but keep trying and failing at QAM tuning. My guess is that are not getting access to the right chipsets for this purpose, and are trying to make do with older/less capable technology...since the PCI Bus is unsecure, all that DRM would go away once the full transport stream exits the tuner onto the bus.
Since these TVs have the right chipsets and can do Digital Cable Ready, it seems like the problem is solved and just needs to be transplanted to the PC HDTV Tuner guys. Or we need to wait for that damn "Trusted Computing" (we big corporations don't trust you hacker/pirate consumers PCs) like the Intel "Sandow" platform.
Last, consider the price plunge we will see when DC Ready + CableCARD is available everywhere and 90% of the HDTVs have no slot in them. That is going to be some pricey inventory to discount when the only products selling have the slot so your new 50" 3" thick plasma will not need a phonebook sized STB sitting next to it.
Also consider how pissed off SciAtlanta and Motorola are about this...it means millions less sales of HDTV STBs to the cable companies...once all the TVs have CableCARD slots, the STB market is dead and only the chipset makers will be making money.
And pity the cable companies that have contracts to BUY STBs to lease to customers for $5-$10 per month...they will be sitting on piles of unused STBs and they will lose that extra revenue from the rental.
In this effort, each of the players has a deep financial interest in what technology goes where and when, and the fact that some companies will necessarily be screwed for "the good of the consumer" makes all of them less interested in making this stuff available rapidly or easily.
We'll see it soon, but not as soon as we should be.
And my bet is that it is not problem free in terms of interoperability, tech support, or performance.
But it is still pretty cool.