On The Evolution Of Dance Dance Revolution

Thanks to Gaming-Age for its feature discussing the continued popularity of Konami's Dance Dance Revolution series, which starts out by noting "the DDR series now has had nearly 50 different releases, all territories figured in", and interviews Konami's Yasumi Takase about the possibility of being able to use any music CD in a DDR game ("Having access to your personal music CDs is great, but coming up with your own step data for these songs is not so easy unless you are an expert player"), before talking to female DDR player 'Lyra' about her views of female players ("We do tend to have a lot more guy players than girls, the only girls we ever get are people who either try it out once, or sluts who are trying to get a guy.") Elsewhere, DDRFreak points to an academic essay on the history of DDR (PDF link), produced for Stanford University's History Of Computer Game Design class.

Comments

Low # of Female Players?

[Oz0ne]

That's exactly the opposite I see. While there are a surprising amount of guys (surprising to me at least, most guys I know have no rythym at all,) the players I do see are predominantely female. I'd say like 70%.

We've got a DDR machine or two at every arcade in the area (South Florida) and they are always booming with people. There's usually a line, though many are just spectators. You don't see anything like that for the racers, shooters, or fighters in the arcades. Actually, I'm seeing fewer and fewers racers, shooters, and fighters all together :-/

Re:Low # of Female Players?

[Asmor]

The sad fact is, just as Street Fighter II brought the glory days of arcades, DDR is its last leg. I'm not saying DDR is at fault-- far from it. DDR is keeping what few arcades that are left alive and they were failing for other reasons (primarily the quality of home systems and the fact that while the cost of home games hasn't increased as far back as I can remember (I remember all those new Genesis games I used to force my dad to buy me costing $40 and $50), arcade games have at least doubled in price, and the larger games often cost a dollar or more per play. Of course, if you go to Japan, the games run off 100 coins which are the equivelent of ~$0.90USD, so even for the "cheap" games they're paying twice as much as we do in the US, but they in return get a much better atmosphere. The games are all a bit shorter and have comfy stools so you get to sit down and enjoy them. The games are also kept in tip top condition... If you don't like the way a joystick feels, you can tell whoever's working there and they will have the technical skill to replace it, have replacement parts handy and be more than happy to replace it for you. I can't count how many time I've been bored and gone into the arcade at a mall and put a couple quarters into Marvel vs. Capcom only to find out that I can't move backwards or use middle punch. Then again, maybe all the mall arcades actually just set the machines on the secret "uber" mode hoping to attract die hard fans looking for a challenge? :)

Re:Low # of Female Players?

[JavaLord]

I'm not saying DDR is at fault-- far from it.

But in a way it is, DDR is the type of game that is intimidating to new players. Sure, Teenagers don't mind getting on that thing and jumping around but don't you think that DDR by it's nature alienates the 20 - 30 something players? Or players with poor dexterity? While you might get embarassed playing street fighter for the first time, you can REALLY get embarassed playing DDR in front of a crowd for the first time. Not to mention the fact that a DDR machine probably costs at least double what a standard arcade machine costs.

I could make an argument that the stagnation of fighting games, along with the rise of DDR is what killed the popularity of the arcade scene. Sure there are a lot of kids watching each other play DDR. But are there as many people in the arcade as in 94 - 97 when Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter were peaking?

If you don't like the way a joystick feels, you can tell whoever's working there and they will have the technical skill to replace it, have replacement parts handy and be more than happy to replace it for you. I can't count how many time I've been bored and gone into the arcade at a mall and put a couple quarters into Marvel vs. Capcom only to find out that I can't move backwards or use middle punch.

Fixing a button is easy, replacing a joystick is a bit of a pain in the ass. Plus you want to have the correct joystick for the game at hand, most players can tell a Namco stick from a Midway one. (Or at least it was that way when I was playing..). If you are at a small arcade they will usually replace a joystick if you ask nicely, the mall arcades often employ people who wouldn't even know how to change a joystick. They just give you your coins back, put the game out of order and tell whoever the tech is to fix it when he comes in that week.

Then again, maybe all the mall arcades actually just set the machines on the secret "uber" mode hoping to attract die hard fans looking for a challenge? :)

Usually what happens is the game comes in new, they put it on a middle setting, then ramp it up after it's been out for awhile and it's making money. Sometimes, they will forget to turn it down when the game becomes less popular or the game is moved to another location.

Other times the arcade worker (ie coin chaser) might just turn up the skill level to piss off a regular who comes in to play the game all the time. :)

Re:Low # of Female Players?

[bludstone]

"Actually I left out another part of what has killed arcades, online gaming over the internet"

Wrong.

People give online gaming far FAR too much credit. The vast majority of people who play videogames do not do so online; Either through PC or consoles. They play at home, or if they want to play multiplayer, with friends. Not online.

The only arcade I ever go to anymore is Dave and Busters. Thats for Mo-Cap boxing, police 911, and some other VR~ish games. And Beer. Lots of beer.

Girls playing DDR

[mhesseltine]

So, if I see a girl on the DDR, she's either a virgin or a slut? 50/50? I like those odds!

Re:Girls playing DDR

[Anonymous Coward]

well you certainly can't loose.

If it's a slut, I'd be willing to bet a few quarters that it'll be "loose." =P

Jealous?

[Anonymous Coward]

"We do tend to have a lot more guy players than girls, the only girls we ever get are people who either try it out once, or sluts who are trying to get a guy."

Or Jealous bitches. Gee, I wonder which one she is?

In all seriousness, I stopped playing ddr for two reasons. 1) The music sucks ass and 2) the people that play also suck ass.

While my local group of players may not be representational of the entire subculture, they did remind me of the old jock assholes from Highschool.

I was quite good at ddr. Did SSR/MANIAC/whatevertheyarecallednow with no problems. I actively encouraged others to play. Now it seems that being a beginner ddr player is a reason to ridicule someone. Sorry, no, Ill not be part of that group.

Re:Jealous?

[billcopc]

Me, I got out of DDR because of the community. At first it was fun, we had this little 'clique', everyone knew each other by nickname and there were perhaps a dozen of 'us'. Then the teenies got into it and brought along all the trouble that hormonally-confused teens represent. The whole scene turned into a sex-politics mess, people getting excluded from events because they had dumped so-and-so, or were fscking a non-DDR'er. It got really fricking WEIRD.

And then the arcade moved to a new location that's 10 miles farther and I just don't feel like driving 45 minutes to play a game. So I started playing occasionally at the local cinema, where there is no 'scene' and it's just a bunch of passers-by and amateurish kids drooling to death as they admire my lee+ s+epp!ng sk!LLz and ask in amazement "how can a fat fsck like you pull a max combo on that ?"

And then I kick the living poo out of them and sell their internals on ebay. Hence the absence of a 'scene'.

What about auto-generating step data?

[adler187]

Why not just analyze the music and create step data based on certain beats, patterns, etc... Don't they do this sort of thing in visualizations already? Granted, it won't be as good as hand created step data, since you can make it harder or easier depending on your preference. But then, you could just fine tune the data by editing it yourself.

DDR is a pretty cool game (especially to watch) except it can get very annoying after a while. Case in point, I was at the CPL in Dallas and they had a DDR2 machine set up close by. Not many people were playing it so it sat at the title screen with some annoying dj announcer guy repeating D-D-R over and over again. It is pretty cool to watch some of those guys dance, nut no matter how good any DDR player is I can't imagine they are better than this guy.

Re:What about auto-generating step data?

[silentbobdp]

Read the article. Konami's Goo Goo Soundy did this already; frankly the feature sucks, as a game creating steps on the fly can't take into account the physical requirements of the steps. Throwing down buttons to the beat just doesn't work, especially at the higher levels of the game. Patterns and logical use of the two feet have to be considered for the steps to be doable.

Re:What about auto-generating step data?

[MaufTarkie]

It is pretty cool to watch some of those guys dance, nut no matter how good any DDR player is I can't imagine they are better than this guy.

Amazing. Have you seen these? They combine both Pop'n Music and crazy freestyle dancing. Not as much button mashing, but funny to watch.

• popnmusic_freestyle.avi
• popnmusic_freestyle_4.avi
• popnmusic_freestyle_6.avi

You can find more DDR videos at the website this was linked from if you so wish. Some of them are pretty amazing (at least, I was amazed).

Re:What about auto-generating step data?

[the_ed_dawg]

Actually, two guys I went to school with made something like this for their senior design project. They used a Texas Instruments DSP with a beat detection algorithm to determine the beat of any CD you played. They were crazy DDR fanatics and (I think) mapped the dance moves to the patterns you commonly see in-game rather than dealing with it beat by beat. The only downside was that they needed the DSP and a 10 second latency while the CD was buffering to handle future beat changes.

South Park on DDR...

[feidaykin]

Heh... Gotta mention it. A few episodes back, Stan needed help for a dance competition and they go to an arcade to inlist the help of an asian DDR player.

*Stan and a goth watch as the asian kid dances frantically.*
Stan: Oh my god... he's really good.
Goth: He should be, he's spent like $6,000 on that thing.
*Asian kid stops playing, Stan approaches him.*
Stan: You're really good, kid... would you help me in my dance competition?
Asian kid: You mean dancing without a machine telling you what to do?

And as long as I'm trying to be funny, why not look at QDB on the subject of DDR, too.

DDR communites

[veganjay]

Honestly, the first article did not really give any new information, besides that something new is coming to DDR.

However, definitely check out the essay paper - there's some interesting stuff on 'DDR communities'. This is funny because some of the DDR players I've met were just discussing the same exact thing. We (us DDR players) have basically have met each other through the playing the game. Otherwise, we would have never met. In some sense, we participate in a DDR sub-culture, discussing the game and music, sharing tricks/techniques, talking about local heroes (people that can pass Paranoia Survivor Max Oni), etc.

Call it silly, but we even have DDR nicknames - I always play at 1.5X speed - thus I am "jason 1.5". Then there is a guy who disapproves of any mods in general, hence he is "captain anti-speed mod". (I suspect only DDR players will understand this!).

If you haven't played DDR, I definitely recommend it. Just try it on beginner mode in the arcade, or try it on xbox/ps2.

--
jason

what about arm motion ?

[dario_moreno]

Why don't they mix DDR with a gesture based game like "Eye Toy : Groove" ? Then you could really have a disco experience ! There is no way at the moment to check in which direction the body is turned, so all the salsa or rock'n'roll moves are usually wrong in comparison to the "real" ones (not to mention the lack of an opposite sex partner you can feel in your arms).

Re:what about arm motion ?

[skermit]

They've already got it:
http://www.channelbeat.com/products/dance/par a_par a__paradise_series.html

Re:what about arm motion ?

[nekura]

Check out DanceManiax, which is both hands and feet.

Custom songs

[StocDred]

Having access to your personal music CDs is great, but coming up with your own step data for these songs is not so easy unless you are an expert player

They need to figure something out, because this would be terrific. Especially for people using the home game for exercise purposes and have gotten bored playing to the same stuff.

I am up for the challenge, Konami.

Re:Custom songs

[Sinistar2k]

Why not just use StepMania? Rip your own music, make your own steps, and dance to whatever you want.

Somebody over at the DDRFreak forums had even mentioned that they created a stepfile generator.

Realism

[Poster Nutbag]

I say the next development in DDR should be realism! Possible enhancmements include:

-Stick-o-matic floor to simulate drink spillings
-Automatic overpriced watered-down drink vending machine
-The Claustrophobinator(tm), a modification that brings down a heated padded wall to simulate crowd proximity
-Long bathroom lines

DDRFreak creators on-air next Sunday

[Anonymous Coward]

Just wanted to let you know that, through great coincidence, the creators of DDRFreak.com will be on my weekly radio show this coming Sunday (May 9th.) If anyone is interested in learning more about DDR and/or talking to them, you should listen to the show and call in to discuss Dance Dance Revolution and the music rhythm genre as a whole. The show can be heard on AM radio in Phoenix, AZ or through the internet anywhere in the world.

Just check out www.chatterboxgameshow.com for all the info on the show.

-Alon
The Host of ChatterBox

Mod Parent Up

[Pluvius]

I still play DDR, but this covers my thoughts about that quote exactly. Besides, you could easily say the same thing about most of the guys that try DDR.

I'm willing to bet that Lyra is one of those female anime otakus who couldn't imagine actually having sex with a real guy, so she's obsessed with yaoi drawings and Harry Potter slash fanfics.

Rob

Heavy saturation of imported machines

[cyrax777]

DId cause Konami to bascicly say "F*ck it" and not release anymore US only release's since USA the rest are all import units from either Japan or Korea. Also the articles 50 diffrent releases includes the home releases included the append disks were one still needs the original game. ah fun with techincallitys.

Cool DDR play with 3 legs

[News for nerds]

Quicktime Movie

The article is a bit late

[M3wThr33]

The only real games to come out are Party Collection, and Dancing Stage Unleashed. The releases are winding down. The last arcade release was December 25th, 2002.

It's even more sad how neglected the other games in the series are, like Beatmania and Keyboardmania. (Both now discontinued) Guitarfreaks and Drummania/Percussionfreaks found a niche.

My very reliable friend also told me that a DanceManiaX 3rd mix should be coming out soon, though, so not all hope is lost.

The latest arcade release of a dancing game, aside from PIU stuff would be In The Groove. /. had some article on it a couple months back. It's almost ready for release now.

free clones

[Stallmanite]

I know of 2 freesource clones of DDR.

Stepmania seems to be the most popular of the two, but seems to depend on propriatary data ripped from DDR (which became an issue when someone tried to put it in debian).

Pydance only has 3 songs for it, but is otherwise ok.