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MS Sales Growth Limited by Delays in Windows

Alien54 writes "As reported by Bloomberg, Microsoft Corp.'s sales growth will probably drop below 10 percent next fiscal year for the first time because delays in the next version of Windows have created the longest-ever lag between releases of the software. They go into some detail on how the lack of new products also hurts multiyear subscriptions, because clients that buy the contracts expecting to get product upgrades may not renew if new items won't be available for a while. Didn't someone say once that they have enough reserves to last 5 years without any sales at all?"

80 of 308 comments (clear)

  1. How much? by LaserLyte · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I wonder how much Longhorn is going to cost exactly? A combination of Microsoft's obviously declining userbase and 5+ years of development costs needing to be covered is going to mean Longhorn's pricetag will have to be pretty steep if MS is going to profit directly from it.

    Hmm... the article claims "Windows runs 93 percent of the world's personal computers". That's way more than I would have guessed. How is that measured exactly? And who by?

    1. Re:How much? by LaserLyte · · Score: 5, Funny

      And...of course, this is after I've bought my nice new 6GHz/2GB/1TB machine to run it on :)

    2. Re:How much? by msim · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Even taking the inflation costs into account, haven't the costs of windows ballooned disproportionately since the days of windows 95?

      I mean Win98 was a bit of a hike, WinME (i never even walked past it in a shop, i'd take a detour) presumably shot way up in cost. Then they extolled the virtues of Windows 2000 (which i admit was the best they've released thus far) as the start of the merger of consumer OS and Business OS.

      And now they are wallet raping everyone with XP. LaserLyte may well be right about the costs going even further up into the stratisphere. No matter what people say though, i just find it a bit difficult to get my head around paying so much frickin money for something as intangible as software.

      I'm sure that if they lowered the cost of the software somewhat, then they'd be able to cash in on the people that originally thought their software too expensive (and thusly found a mate with a cracked cd of Latest-funky-jive (TM) operating system.

      Sure as shit on a stick they'd have my attention and i'd consider buying Microsoft Software if they made it more stable and cheaper. And that's saying something!

      --

      Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know when your gonna get food poisoning.
    3. Re:How much? by msim · · Score: 2, Interesting

      blah my spelling sucks today :-\

      --

      Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know when your gonna get food poisoning.
    4. Re:How much? by nkh · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You're saying Longhorn is going to be more expensive but for most people Longhorn will be free (pre-installed on their new PC bought at Wallmart) and they won't see the difference...

    5. Re:How much? by dark404 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      A combination of Microsoft's obviously declining userbase and 5+ years of development costs needing to be covered is going to mean Longhorn's pricetag will have to be pretty steep if MS is going to profit directly from it.

      Don't get me wrong, I use both windows and linux (mepis to be exact), but I fail to see how it is obvious microsoft's userbase is on the decline. Linux is still very much a niche os, almost exclusively among geeks. Even being overly generous about linux as a server os, desktops outnumber by a large number, and those desktops are almost exclusively windows outside of graphic designers (mac), and some developers (linux/unix).

    6. Re:How much? by Jane_Dozey · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It won't be free, the cost will just be included in the bottom line of the new PC.
      I wonder if the price of PC's will go up, or if the OEM licences will be proportionatly cheaper.

      --
      Silly rabbit
    7. Re:How much? by teamhasnoi · · Score: 5, Funny
      mm... the article claims "Windows runs 93 percent of the world's personal computers".

      I'm afraid that's a typo.

      It should read "Windows ruins 93 percent of the world's personal computers".

      Thanks.

    8. Re:How much? by timeOday · · Score: 4, Informative

      The price of Windows has very little to do with the cost of developing it. The OS division has annual profits of about 85%. And of that last 15%, most of it is marketing, support, and manufacturing, not r&d. They are already charging what the market will bear, and since the operating system is a natural monopoly this is far beyond the production cost.

    9. Re:How much? by ryanh50 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I find your comments about the cost of XP rather interesting. The XP Home upgrade can be purchased for 99.00 at any retail store. THe pro version is 199.00.
      If you fancy yourself a new computer you can get an oem copy of XP PRO fro around 149.00. I am assumming that you are building your computers.
      When you look at the cost of software the OS is very very cheap compared to other sofware packages. Symantec wants between 45 and 60 bucks for a virus scanner! So lets be reasonable and say that a hundred or so bucks for an Operating system is a good deal.

    10. Re:How much? by nightgeometry · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Hmmm, I bought a mac recently. When i went into the local apple dealer to try and get one they had a 4 week back log, *too many* people buying them.

      I sat in the shop for awhile, playing with the macs. While i was there about 7 people came in, same as me, always used unix or windows, and wanted a mac. 7 people, but i left after 45 mins (admitedly it was a saturday morning).

      I know more and more people buying cheap (ish) iBooks, first time mac users mostly. It seems to me that mac use is going up quite drastically.

      Could just be I'm seeing more of them as I am looking, if you get what i mean.

      *shrug* just thought I'd say.

      --
      The best is the enemy of the good
    11. Re:How much? by westlake · · Score: 4, Informative
      I fail to see how it is obvious microsoft's userbase is on the decline.

      I can't find any solid evidence for a decline.

      Microsoft Sells 210 Million Copies of Windows XP The number mostly based on new OEM system installs, currently running about 10 million a month, up from 9 million a month last July. Figure in corporate licensing, academic distributions, etc., and the number of legit, licensed, XP installs alone must be over 300-350 million.

      The Google Zeitgeist tells much the same story, 90% all queries to Google come from systems running Windows, 47% from systems running XP. Not a bad showing for a three year old O/S.

    12. Re:How much? by mangastudent · · Score: 2, Interesting
      [ Various factors ] mean Longhorn's pricetag will have to be pretty steep if MS is going to profit directly from it.

      Well, Microsoft doesn't have to make (much of) a profit on the Longhorn iteration of their OS per se. What they do have to do is stay in the game: if previous and future iterations make nice profits, they'll do OK (until there is some paradigm shift and the game changes too much; I wonder if (in)security + too much malware might cause one given enough time...).

      However, the delays on this, the next SQL server and .NET versions will hurt them or at least their subscription business model in the long term as the article pointed out....

      (One minor note: true or not, some of the Longhorn delay is being blamed on talent being re-allocated to the emergency/crisis XP SP2 ... and I further note that if SP2 breaks too many things that will prolong the extreme insecurity that much more.)

    13. Re:How much? by msim · · Score: 2, Informative

      Oh heck, my original rationing was correct.
      That was for the OEM releases. However for the "full boxed" software, i got the following prices from "Harvey Norman" which are the bastard son equivalent of Fry's & Walmart over here in Australia. Cut & pasted from their website.

      microsoft ms windows xp home edition $459.95
      microsoft ms windows xp home edition upg $239.95
      microsoft ms windows xp professional A$669.96
      microsoft ms windows xp professional upg $459.95

      So in some way i was right about the prices spiraling up (at least for general consumer releases of software, hell it cost $190 for NT4 Workstation back in the day!!

      --

      Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know when your gonna get food poisoning.
    14. Re:How much? by Jaysyn · · Score: 2, Informative

      LOL, don't go shopping for Microstation v8, ArcGIS/IM/FM/SDE, AutoCAD, or any professional 3D Animation/Modeling program. $250-$300 is a drop in the bucket compared to the cost of these programs. No, Edu. versions don't count.

      Jaysyn

      --
      There is a war going on for your mind.
    15. Re:How much? by dna_(c)(tm)(r) · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And why did you need the virusscanner in the first place ? Or WinZip/backup/defrag/zonealarm/spyware removal/whatever-ware for that matter ?

    16. Re:How much? by vsprintf · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Symantec wants between 45 and 60 bucks for a virus scanner! So lets be reasonable and say that a hundred or so bucks for an Operating system is a good deal.

      Is it really? The irony here is thick. For a hundred bucks you get an OS that will get you 0wned before you can spend the six hours needed patching it over the 'net. You will have to pay for that virus scanner you mentioned to protect you from the OS. Then, by default, you will be running with administrator privileges because many third-party programs won't run otherwise. Given past experience, there probably won't be an upgrade for at least two years.

      Contrast that to using Linux-Mandrake as an OS. If you're cheap, you can get it for the price of 'net bandwidth and blank CDs, call it four dollars. For that you get the OS plus hundreds of applications, usually complete with source code. By default, you will be secure, not running as root, and have no need to pay for that antivirus software.

      If you want to support the distro (your choice), you can join for sixty dollars a year. In either case, you get two upgrades per year along with upgrades for all the apps as well. So, $100 for an insecure OS that will continually bite you for two years, or $4-60 for a secure OS that offers upgrades every six months including the apps?

      A hundred bucks for a PC OS is a rip-off, proven by Microsoft's 80% profit margin. I feel for those people who bought MS's subscription licensing and are getting nothing for it -- then again, maybe they deserved it.

    17. Re:How much? by Gortbusters.org · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You know, I have to wonder where the line is drawn between new features/performance and usability. What I mean is a nice 6GHZ/2GB/1TB machine sounds like it'd be great for 'next generation' applications, but hey what kind of applications are those? More specifically how much cool new stuff can you cram in together before using the computer becomes unmanagable?

      Here's a good example. Arguably I could go out and replace my old 1GHZ laptop with a nice spanky new one. What would this get me... I might be able to play a few more games. I might be able to keep more applications open at once. I might be able to have tons of tabs in Firefox open.... but there is a limit to all of this stuff. More than 10 tabs open and the labels of the tabs become un-readable in Mozilla. More then a few word documents open and you have to search through the list in the panel. Why not just open/close documents from the filesystem?

      As it stands today, I can run outlook, have a few word documents open, an IDE, some business apps, and winamp running and my computer does fine. I'm highly productive and I have little desire to get a new computer. (Caveat: I gave up gaming on PCs a while ago, it was always a loosing battle for keeping up with the latest graphics card, and I like laptops -- now I just do Xbox).

      Let me wrap up my rant with some trolling... IE hangs today and lags the hell out of Windows. Outlook gets slow/crashes and Word crashes. Maybe 6GHZ/2GB/1TB is a precaution for all the havoc from xaml/avalon.

      --
      --------
      Free your mind.
    18. Re:How much? by Gortbusters.org · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Selling software is all about markups. Even with a good sized and well paid development team, you only need to make a few million before you cover the cost of R&D. Through in marketing, support, training, etc and you've maybe at most doubled (5mil to 10mil lets say). For all software giants, this is probably a drop in the bucket. They probably have their bread and butter products that gross in the hundreds of millions. That's all US owned development. Imagine if 90% of your development was outsourced, you just grow your profit margin even more. But hey, that's just business as usual...

      The real rip, as you point out, is the surround support that Windows brings. It takes SO much to get a productive system, and even then you can experience disaster..... here's one scenario I'm sure you or someone you know has been through:

      You call up Dell and have a spanky new PC delivered. But, you don't dare plug it into the network because you didn't get the latest virus scanner with it. So you go out, buy the virus scanner, hook everything up and start to surf the web. Assuming that you don't pickup a new virus between when you connect and when your virus scanner updates itself, you are probably 'OK' for a while.

      Now of course there are almost no applicatons on your new computer. Minesweep, Word Pad, Paint... bleh. So you go get Office, buy a handful of fun computer games, PhotoShop, Quicken, Turbo Tax and you're finally starting to get use out of your computer.

      As time goes on you use your computer as normal. Sometimes it hangs, sometimes a program crashes, but hey that's ok as long as there isn't a blue screen of death. At some point, you start to notice pop-ups. First a couple, then like 4 or 5 whenever you open up IE. Maybe your virus scanner didn't find them! One of your techie friends say that you got 'adware' or 'spyware' or something that's like a virus, but not harmful -- just annoying.

      You find something like PestPatrol and download the free version. To your suprise you have 50-100 adware/spyware programs on your computer. Oh wait, you can't clean them unless you pay another 60 for the registered version. You buy it, you clean it, but for some reason things just keep coming back.

      As time goes on you probably end up doing 1 of 2 things. First, someone might tell you it's good to reinstall Windows every year or so to "clean things out." Another option is that you just oculdn't get rid of that last virus/adware/spyware. Not being a techie, you find some directions, execute them wrong, and the system won't boot anymore. Tech support (you did get the 3 year warranty right?) says they will have to reload your systme.

      Depending on if your re-install was planned or un-planned you might have saved data or not. The worst case scenario is of course that you do your re-install but you are missing all your applications! You downloaded the software instead of getting the CD... You didn't buy the upgrade service, you don't have your old license key, they don't offer the old version, and no discount on the new version....

      Moral of the story, Windows seems to be a good way to pay a lot of money for things just to get a system that is actually useful to you. Also, with a system prone to re-installations you open yourself up to upgrade package fees or buying the same software multiple times. This whole scenario could have easiy been a Linux user, but the difference is the availability of free software and initial costs.

      --
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      Free your mind.
    19. Re:How much? by Gortbusters.org · · Score: 2, Interesting

      UT is a great example. Everyone fell in love with the first UT and it ran on just about any computer you put it on at the time. UT 2003 had a laggy frame rate on a new high end Sony laptop I bought (after UT 2003 had come out no less), and at that point I was like WTF.

      The last computer game I played was Dark Ages of Camelot. Now I have an xbox and I play counterstrike as my first person shooter of choice. If Xbox/PS[2|3] get a keyboard module to plugin to the controller, you can kiss the PC game market good bye.

      I'm waiting for xbox to be able to do things like play networked quake[1|2|3], UT[2003|2004], and I'll be set.

      --
      --------
      Free your mind.
    20. Re:How much? by loraksus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yeah, they are "wallet raping" everyone with XP. And will contrinue to do so until longhorn comes out. MS is making a killing delaying their launch date for Longhorn. There isn't any incentive for them to do otherwise.

      They have realized "hey, there really isn't any serious competition, so we really don't need to improve our products with the exception of patches, etc." In the meantime, they collect their fees for almost every computer sold through retail channels while paying almost nothing for programmers (or diverting their programmers to different groups)

      Also, realistically, the people who know how to pirate their software and bypass the activation will still do it if XP is $50, if not out of habit, then just to "stick it to the man". That said, I agree with you that the current retail price for XP is vulgar.

      MS is making tons of money off OEMs (dell and the like), and will continue to do so for the forseeable future.

      On a side note, I don't think XP is that unstable, it is still shitty driver manufacturers (ATI) that cause a lot of stability problems. Hardware has a bit to do with it too, I think bad ram is becoming more common as we see chips drop in price and capacities increase.

      Security holes are a different matter, although anyone running a box without a firewall enabled (*nix or windows) or a router between them and the net is a damn fool.
      That said, it will take a destructive virus (i.e. wipe all data and flash the bios) to make the average joe aware of security, which will really put the fire under MS's ass.
      I'm sure it will happen in the next year or two given the fucking script kiddies we have now.
      Although it will piss a whole bunch of people off (especially the oems who will have to pull millions of bios chips (or boards if the chips can't be replaced) out of their ass) it will be a _very_ chaotic month and something like this should tighten security up quite a bit and drive hardware / software (AV / firewall) sales.

      --
      1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcfv gbhnjmk,l.;/
    21. Re:How much? by airjrdn · · Score: 3, Interesting

      First, stop shopping for your PC's at Alienware and Falcon Northwest.

      Now, price the following hardware and I guarantee you 60+FPS on almost every map in UT2004. These are the specs to my box and I can guarantee you they'll run at those framerates and won't cost anywhere NEAR $4000.

      AMS E-Cube - $249
      P4 2.8 800Mhz FSB - $179
      2x512M Corsair XMS DDR PC-3200 - $300 for both
      128M POWERCOLOR ATI RADEON 9700PRO - $188
      120G 7200RPM HD
      Plextor DVDRom Drive - $39

      That should just about do it. For a total of around $1000 I just picked out the parts for your next gaming rig. Heck, with the budget you mentioned, buy a couple more for your friends.

      Also worth noting, you don't have to have ram that expensive, or a DVD rom drive, a CDRom would do. You could actually save quite a bit going with only 512M of ram and using a cheaper brand. Other than that, I'd say your idea of a "recent machine" and mine must differ. Anything less than a 2Ghz 512M Radeon 9700 I wouldn't refer to as recent.

  2. Man that sucks... by gooberguy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...for Microsoft. At least my computer doesn't seem outdated even though I'm running Windows 2000, which is over 4 years old. That's like 50 in internet years.

    --


    Karma: Meh (Mostly from meh.)
    1. Re:Man that sucks... by d99-sbr · · Score: 3, Funny

      Chances are, it will be my last Windows OS.

      I hear you, I too fear Windows will be the end of me.

  3. Re:Does anyone else ever get these weird ideas? by phoenix.bam! · · Score: 3, Funny

    I do. I see microsoft branching from software and developing a fleet of spaceships capable of faster than light travel.

  4. This may be a good thing for Linux. by karmatic · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Depending on how well the Distribution creators handle this, this can be a blessing or a curse for Linux. Generally speaking, companies want equal or better features before they consider switching (equal, if price is the main concern - better, if it's not).

    The long delay between releases will give Linux a chance to improve itself, and present a better alternative to Windows, with more features, better security, and a lower price.

    However, this can also be a curse - MS is taking their sweet time, and this may be due to fixes, or it may simply be that they are developing stable, great features. If Microsoft releases a slew of new features which businesses find to be essential, Linux will once again be playing the "catch up" game.

    It will be interesting to see how this plays out over the course of the next few years.

    1. Re:This may be a good thing for Linux. by hawkeyeMI · · Score: 4, Interesting
      The culture at microsoft, as far as I can tell as an outsider, seems to focus on things in this order.
      1. Business savvy
      2. Proprietary lock-in
      3. DRM
      4. Features
      5. Security

      I don't think they're actually capable of producing the kind of product you'd expect at over $100 per license, whereas Apple seems to be.

      I keep watching them say it's all going to be done right, and from the very beginning I knew they'd do what they'd always do. It's like an addictive disease. They just can't resist shoving another product out the door before they ought to. Thus, they have announced that they'd cut features (you'll hear this spun different ways, but yes, they're cutting features) to get it out the door closer to the predicted release date.

      I predict (and in this I don't think I'm a great tech forecaster, it's just painfully obvious) that once again, it won't be ready even by 2006, but people will be waiting, and they'll be watching Linux encroach, and an expensive, unfinished product will roll out the door once more.

      This is the time for Linux. Everyone is getting sick of Microsoft's incompatibility with standards. As more people use non-IE browsers and non-MS server software once again, fewer and fewer sites require MSIE. The worms and viruses are an additional "blessing" (though I have to fix them all the time at work -- ugh) in that they give users another reason to get fed up with Redmond.

      You're also right in that the game has to be played right. Linux distros jumping the gun and trying to foist unpolished products on the market could come back to bite them in the ass. I guess only time will tell.

      --
      Error 404 - Sig Not Found
    2. Re:This may be a good thing for Linux. by karmatic · · Score: 2, Interesting

      While you are probably correct, there is the possibility that Microsoft is starting to learn it's lesson. Their IIS market share is dropping, Mozilla (and unfortunatly the neutered AOL version - Netscape) are taking back the users from IE, Linux is starting to actually see some desktop share, and OpenOffice is quickly becoming a viable alternative to MS Office.

      They will probably just go "Time for more lock-in! Then our competitors can't beat us." It would certainly coinside with their history. However, they still exist to make money, and the odds say they have hired at least one person with a clue. At some point, they will realize they can't compete on price or monopoly, and start to compete on features.

      Two questions remain then "When will they figure this out?", and "Will it be too late for them?". Only time will tell.

    3. Re:This may be a good thing for Linux. by the_duke_of_hazzard · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think you're right in that this is Linux's big chance, but Linux still has a long way to go before it really penetrates into the naive user market. Partly because "Linux" is not a monolithic entity organised and focussed enough on the end user to really win them over. By the time Linux is pushed as a product as useful and usable as Windows, Longhorn (albeit a stunted version) may be out, and if Microsoft have learned their lessons (I suspect they will have) it will be a much better product underneath. It doesn't even have to be that good to "win". Linux has already won the server argument; it's just a matter of time before Microsoft recedes from view in that arena. That's if the desktop market really exists in the same way by 2006. Linux's adaptability to new devices means that MS's domination of the desktop market could be irrelevant by 2010. In which case MS will be like IBM: a huge lumbering beast that can't change direction until it has to. When it does, though, it's hard to ignore.

    4. Re:This may be a good thing for Linux. by g0qi · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I keep watching them say it's all going to be done right, and from the very beginning I knew they'd do what they'd always do. It's like an addictive disease.

      I'd be careful in discounting MS. A wait time of nearly 5 years is the longest, considering they're not exactly rewriting everything and the kernel like NT. Even NT, from scratch, took about 4 years to get done.

      This is the time for Linux

      I agree it is. But don't short-sight yourself. If your whole selling point relies on that the next version of Windows is absolutely going to contain critical kernel flaws, then something is wrong with your argument.

      Everyone is getting sick of Microsoft's incompatibility with standards.

      Everyone at Slashdot is. Slashdot is not exactly the online journal of choice for Joe Sixpack. Stop kidding yourself, and understand your competition seriously.


      I post this from a Fedora machine, and I love GNOME. But it's sickening to see how dismissive most geeks at slashdot are when it comes to anything about Microsoft. The first rule of war is "Know thy enemy well".

      --
      Yea. I know.
    5. Re:This may be a good thing for Linux. by 0racle · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Everyone is getting sick of Microsoft

      So sick in fact they don't care. Thats right, they don't care. Its just a tool, and Windows is the tool that runs everything.

      Users don't turn around and say, "To hell with MS and they're security holes, I'm not gonna put up with DRM." They just don't care, they use the OS that runs software. They need QuickBooks, they want their games, so they use Windows, not because its the best techinical solution, but its the only one.

      Before you type again about how every little stumble MS makes is "Linux's time," forget EVERYTHING you know about computers, DRM, DMCA, and just about everything else thats discussed here. Now your not a programmer or an admin, your just an average user. You need QuickBooks, you want to play the latest game, you need Office. You will run only one OS, Windows. Linux and the MacOS will never cross your mind, and if it did the sales person will tell you, I'm sorry no that game or that software only runs on Windows, and you'll put it out of your mind.

      So no this little thing is not Linux's time. MS could turn around and call their users all sorts of names and use endless strings of profanity and people will still use Windows. And lastly, even if this did cause MS users to jump ship, it wouldn't be to Linux distros. 'User' distros have tried to make a user-friendly Unix like OS and have been for ages, but Apple beat them too the punch. If people are going to leave Windows, its going to be to the next best supported desktop OS, and thats OS X, not Linux.

      --
      "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
    6. Re:This may be a good thing for Linux. by 0racle · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well would people run an Expensive x86 based OS or a free x86 based OS? Mac hardware isn't that much more expensive then x86 hardware with the same capabilities, and you pay half the cost for OS upgrades between versions. Office runs on the Mac, along with a number of other important pieces of software. On top of that, Mac's look a lot better, which is important to some people. So I would still be shocked, SHOCKED!, (yes, I really mean that shocked), if your average user chose Linux over a Mac.

      --
      "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
    7. Re:This may be a good thing for Linux. by the_rev_matt · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Um, work on NT started in around 87, first release in 93. That's six years. First useable release wasn't until late 94.

      Not that I think there's anything wrong with that, I think the idea that you should get a major version iteration every year or so is absurd. If the OS is so poorly written that it takes a major version to handle things that arisen in the past year then you've got a real problem.

      --
      this is getting old and so are you

      blog

    8. Re:This may be a good thing for Linux. by hawkeyeMI · · Score: 3, Interesting
      As someone who does tech support of pretty much all windows machines on a windows network (only as a part time job) I can tell you that people are getting fed up and looking for alternatives.

      A friend of mine is at a university where nobody can use their computers anymore due to the worms. She likes video games but she's no technophile. I offered to fix her problems but she said she didn't have time right now with finals and all, so I burned her a knoppix cd (the latest, 3.4), did an example boot for her in VMWare, and gave the disc to her.

      Her first comments a day or two later were along the lines of, "I'm glad I can use my computer. Linux is pretty neat but I miss AIM." I pointed her to GAIM. Next comment? "LINUX IS AWESOME!!"

      That's not paraphrased. People are really getting sick of it. Even the Joe Sixpacks. A free alternative is there, and while it's not perfect (went through 3 distros with my GF who was sick of her windows problems, before we found one that worked well enough) it's getting very very close. The progress I've seen lately is exponential so I think the window is big enough.

      --
      Error 404 - Sig Not Found
  5. Re:Well, maybe not the first time... by Sexy+Bern · · Score: 5, Funny
    pushing numbers up my moving revenue

    Is that legal?

    Does it hurt?

  6. Microsoft's Cash Reserves by karmatic · · Score: 4, Informative
    (Courtesy of Seattle PI.)

    Microsoft's cash reserves as of Dec 31, were 53 billion dollars. To put that into perspective, it is enough to "fund NASA for a year, assemble a fleet of 100 Boeing 747s, and buy every person in Seattle a 2004 Subaru Outback -- with a few billion left over for incidentals."

    Math:
    • NASA's 2004 budget: $15.4 billion
    • A fleet of 100 Boeing 747-400s (at $215 million each at 2002 prices): $21.5 billion
    • A Subaru Outback (at $23,470 MSRP) for every person in Seattle (pop. 563,374 in 2000 census): $13.2 billion.
    • Total: $50.1 billion
    1. Re: Microsoft's Cash Reserves by Black+Parrot · · Score: 3, Funny


      > Microsoft's cash reserves as of Dec 31, were 53 billion dollars. To put that into perspective, it is enough to "fund NASA for a year, assemble a fleet of 100 Boeing 747s, and buy every person in Seattle a 2004 Subaru Outback -- with a few billion left over for incidentals."

      But wouldn't get a Slashdotter a date with the Olsen Twins.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    2. Re: Microsoft's Cash Reserves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Only on Slashdot is the phrase "my wife" considered boastful.

  7. Call out the lawyers! by MrLint · · Score: 4, Funny

    ON the heels of some wacky law threats this week i think this is a setup for a perfect trifecta:

    Rambus : We didnt make enough money because you didnt license enough from us. We will sue you.

    Fox News : You wont sell your billboard to us. We will sue you.

    MS : You arent buying from us because we are hyping our new stuff years before its ready, we will sue you!. (?)

    (this post is for humor purposes i am not serious, such a lawsuit would be silly.)

  8. This has ripple effects on other businesses. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    My company does Windows consulting primarily, but we do have two Mac guys (one of whom is me) who handle the art departments at large corporations, among other Mac-based clients.

    Company management has been concerned for some time that the 'project' aspect of our business will take a nosedive during this long period between major Windows releases-- many of our clients have already upgraded to Windows 2003 server and have mostly XP and 2000 client workstations that won't need replacement for a few years. With the Longhorn delays adding up, the Windows integration side of our business is facing something akin to a nuclear winter.

    In light of this, we just had a long meeting yesterday about things we need to do to bring in new Mac clients and otherwise grow the Mac side of the business.

    Hopefully, Apple will take advantage of Longhorn's long gestation period as well.

    1. Re:This has ripple effects on other businesses. by kunudo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, it sure would be nice to replace the current OS near-monopoly with a full-blown hardware and OS monopoly.

    2. Re:This has ripple effects on other businesses. by 0x0d0a · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Not a concern. Apple will never take the personal computing market -- they chose the "lucrative but closed platform" approach that Sun did, where you have to buy Apple hardware to use Apple software. The market won't move from vendors that provide competition (and better prices) to a single, closed platform en masse. It just isn't going to happen -- most Microsoft-centric complaints today are simply because Microsoft had a software monopoly. Businesses are not going to be burned again. This isn't a slam at Apple -- what they did seems to have done reasonably well for them -- but it does mean that they don't compete directly against Microsoft for the masses of businesses out there.

      Apple gaining market share is good for almost everyone (the sole exception would be Microsoft shareholders). Apple (and I'm not saying that this is by preference, but by necessity from not being a monopoly in the PC industry) has, along with the rest of the OS folks, gone with UNIX. They weaken the effectiveness of Microsoft programs to produce lock-in. They help weaken arguments for homogenous computing environments being a phenomenal idea. I use Linux, but I don't care if people want to use BeOS, Mac OS X, or FreeBSD. It makes them happy, and I'm all in favor of that. The only reason a lot of Linux folks get irritated about what the masses use is that they get indirectly impacted by Microsoft pushes to cause lock-in -- closed protocols (like Windows filesharing), closed formats (like Office's) and deliberate attempts to avoid intercompatibility. Any market share Apple gains weakens attacks Microsoft does on Linux, which is great for those of us who are fed up with dealing with Windows.

      Even better, a lot of FOSS software that I work on also works under Mac OS X, and Mac OS X FOSS work (if to the POSIX APIs) works on Linux, so there's a lot of shared effort. Plus, Mac OS X users run software on PowerPC, which is a great way to test and turn up nasty C mistakes.

  9. Compelling features by jimmy+page · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Do you think that sales have also come down due to lack of compelling reasons to switch.

    Office 97 as good as 2000/XP/2003 Win 2000 as good as XP 98 fine for home use..

    What's the point in switching unless to Linux? Unless you like to donate to Charity through the Bill Gates foundation.

  10. Microsoft has some challenges ahead by ites · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Delays in Windows are only one problem.

    Some of the other serious issues Redmond is facing:

    1. Worms/spyware/viruses destroying the home market

    2. Lack of reasons for further upgrades to Office

    3. Enterprise shift to Linux

    4. Consolidating competition from IBM & Novell

    In general terms, their problems stem from having cornered the market for a product that is almost out of fashion: high-cost, complex (and thus insecure) software. People need low-cost, secure software.

    Their best hope is to produce an interim release of Windows 2000 that has been seriously upgraded in terms of security. But even then I don't see how they can survive the commoditization of their core market.

    5 years' budget goes awfully quickly when you are used to double-figure growth.

    --
    Sig for sale or rent. One previous user. Inquire within.
    1. Re:Microsoft has some challenges ahead by swillden · · Score: 4, Funny

      Their best hope is to produce an interim release of Windows 2000 that has been seriously upgraded in terms of security.

      Nah, too hard.

      Their best bet is to produce an interim release of Windows 2000 that changes nothing underneath but just adds a fancy new UI, maybe something bright, colorful and cartoonish. They could rearrange all of the system controls and add on-line license verification to finally defeat those pesky pirates, while only mildly inconveniencing their legitimate buyers.

      Oh, wait...

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    2. Re:Microsoft has some challenges ahead by landaker · · Score: 2, Insightful

      . . . and add on-line license verification to finally defeat those pesky pirates, while only mildly inconveniencing their legitimate buyers.

      I think you meant: "finally defeat their legitimate buyers, while only mildly inconveniencing those pesky pirates."

  11. The cash reserves aren't what matters here by financialguy · · Score: 3, Insightful
    True, MS has more than enough cash on hand to survive for years to come, but that's not what stockholders want. They want profit growth and a primary way of doing that is with top line growth, e.g. growth in sales.

    The real impact for Microsoft will be less revenues and a lower stock price.

  12. importance of waiting by pvt_medic · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Its at apoint that the wait will help. Because most operating systems 98, 2000, me (yuck), XP work on the same computer. What is the incentive to upgrade. I forgot the eactual statistic but isnt there a sizable percentage of the computers on the net still using 98. I know we have two computers at home using 98. And there is no reason to upgrade them. But in like 5 years or so the computers are going to be so much faster. Wasnt it that the specs for longhorn needed dual processors running at 4-6 ghz, a gig of ram and like a terabyte of hard drive space. That is something that these prexisting systems just wont know what to do with. by waiting so long there no way that 98 is going to be able to run on a system like that. Everyone will have to buy longhorn.

    --
    30% Troll, 50% Underrated, 10% Interesting
    Score:5, Troll
    1. Re:importance of waiting by danharan · · Score: 2, Informative
      I forgot the eactual statistic but isnt there a sizable percentage of the computers on the net still using 98.


      The Google Zeitgeist now puts it at 22%.

      A bit further down the page, it looks like Mozilla is slowly gaining market share. Yay :)
      --
      Information: "I want to be anthropomorphized"
  13. Re:Does anyone else ever get these weird ideas? by SoSueMe · · Score: 2, Funny

    Vacuum Cleaners?

    Naa... they probably wouldn't suck...

  14. As an insider for Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    I am posting anonymously for obvious reasons.

    I can safely tell you to expect a "SE" version of Windows XP by December of this year. It will have some enhancements and adjustments, plus it will also have a new media center-like program included.

    Expect an announcement in the next two or three weeks.

    1. Re:As an insider for Microsoft by Michael+Dorfman · · Score: 2, Informative

      You mean Windows XP SP 2? This is already in Release Candidate mode to MSDN subscribers.

    2. Re:As an insider for Microsoft by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The beta was for MSDN subscribers, the RC1 is a public release...

      http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/win xp pro/sp2preview.mspx

      If you're a developer it's really essential to have at least one PC running it (preferable amd64) as there are a lot of changes... the NX protection fubars Mozilla, Digiguide, most Antivirus software, etc.

    3. Re:As an insider for Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I am posting anonymously for obvious reasons.

      I can safely tell you to expect a "KDE" version of Windows XP by December of this year. It will have some enhancements and adjustments, plus it will also have a new media center-like program included.

      Expect an announcement in the next two or three weeks.

  15. Dropping Hits -- MS Records by Eberlin · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So we're used to having MS release a new hit cd every two years. By hit I mean boy-band tracks hastily cobbled together and pushed out the door to an awaiting fanbase. (look, how else do you explain it?)

    Ballmer and Gates make press conferences touting their new hit singles like "A New Outlook" and "DRM - Quicker Than A Ray Of Light" -- but of course you can't just buy the singles. You have to buy the entire CD...and good luck trying to get rid of the tracks you don't want.

    Now people started complaining about how their hits aren't put together well so they decided to finally take it slow, spend time at the studio, and actually sit down to make good music. The fanbase was like "awwww, you didn't have to do that!" while the critics were "riiiight, like they'd REALLY do that."

    Then MS realized they're not going make the 2 year cycle deadline so faster than you can say "oops, I did it again" they start tossing out stuff they were promising to deliver. Their new hit "Palladium Blues" may have to wait. That new Filesystem track that you could Tae Bo to -- gone.

    So what's left? Probably a complete rehash of their latest album. Maybe they'll P-Diddy some of the stuff Apple released a few years ago. Toss in a reworked "IE Blockin' Da Poppas" along with Ballmer's dance moves and the fanbase will eat it up like a warm leftover casserole.

    As for me, I'm a critic, not a fan. I'll stick to my GPL's Greatest Hits cd. You know, the one that comes with the "I Honk For Herring" sticker and a video of Stallman singing the "Hacker Song." I must say I passed on the Torvalds In Speedos poster, though.

    1. Re:Dropping Hits -- MS Records by Brad+the+Informer · · Score: 2, Informative

      Worst. Metaphor. Ever.

      Actually, it was okay through paragraph 3, where I should have stopped reading.

      I want those extra two minutes of my life back, please.

  16. 5 years? by KrisCowboy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Microsoft can survive for 10 years without selling even a single product or service. They can survive on the vast Research and Development(R&D) they've built-up over the years. Well, guess what, Bill Gates won't be the richest if they stop selling stuff, and computer industry will be a lot better.

  17. Re:Well, maybe not the first time... by Jane_Dozey · · Score: 2, Funny

    oooooo!!
    1. Get job at MS.
    2. Threaten to blow the whistle on some illegal behaviour.
    3. Profit! ;)

    --
    Silly rabbit
  18. What if MS gets it right this time? by amichalo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I am terrified to think what will happen if MS actuall gets it right with Longhorn.

    We have all, to various extents, been accomplices in MS monopoly 9who has NEVER purchased any MS product?)

    We clammor for more scurity and fewer bugs and so forth. What if MS ACTUALLY provided a secure and stable OS? And then people upgraded to it. What then of Linux, OS X, and the like?

    --
    I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
  19. Many Small Things by Jameth · · Score: 5, Informative

    Microsoft is currently threatened by a barrage of minor issues which add up to something serious when combined.

    1) Lack of new products prevents sales and damages customer loyalty.

    2) Severe worms damage customer loyalty, increase costs in maintenance and customer service.

    3) Competing products getting stronger with OS-X on the desktop on Linux both embedded and in servers cut into what sales they would have.

    4) Strong competition generates press for opposing sides, making them appear less innovative than they want to.

    5) Constant lawsuits present a steady sapping on resources.

    6) Constant web-popups make IE seem sad in comparison to Firebird and Opera, as well as a lack of features being painful. This detracts from their general appearance and aids competitors.

    7) More people are satisfied with their current systems and are just refusing to upgrade.

    8) Piracy of windows is staying widespread despite product registration, and the lack of legitimate copies is adding to the virus issue.

    9) The next version of Java is looking stronger than .Net and reasonably fast, preventing their newest system from completely stealing Sun's thunder. Once again, damaging credibility.

    10) Although X-Box started gaining on the other consoles finally, all the competing systems are starting to push even more for handhelds, and likely integration between the two, resulting in an aspect where the X-Box will be lacking.

    11) The G5 chip is the first time that a Macintosh processor has been seen as competitive with the top Intel chips, further undermining their superiority.

    12) The iTunes music store is still unrivaled, re-solidifying Macintosh as the OS for multimedia, along with programs such as FinalCut and Garage Band and products such as the iPod.

    13) Governments are starting to strongly consider open standard, raising the lobbying costs for Microsoft and potentially requiring some new file formats to be supported by them.

    14) OpenOffice.org shows a technically capable alternative to MS-Office. Where MS-Office was once clearly on top it may have to start fighting for its place soon. Also, the latest version of MS-Office, MS-Office XP, doesn't run on as old of hardware as OpenOffice.org, so many people with old Windows systems have an alternative upgrade line, as opposed to being locked into upgrading computer, OS, and office suite all at once.

    15) Many large contracts for Linux have been seen recently, harming Microsoft's public image more.

    There is other stuff, but I can't think of it at the moment.

    I would say their strongest pieces at the moment for increasing sales are .Net, the X-Box, and WMA with DRM. MS-Office and Windows are still their biggest products, but they can't increase in sales very much.

    Their OS is just not going to be ready before 2006, so it cannot stimulate a recovery. What they need is something to make it worth the wait. .Net is that, as it has very much promise and says something about how much total change will come with their next OS release. Also, .Net can compete with Java somewhat, helping them in a buzzword cattle.

    MS-Office was traditionally their big seller to tie people into their systems, but it's basically finished up. They have very little room to improve. Most of the improvements that could be of value cost more to develop than they will bring in sales (better type-setting control and similar advanced features) or will have a huge risk of damaging their current monopoly (a new office suite can have a radically new UI and be easier to use without losing customers).

    X-Box, on the other hand, is totally up-and-coming and is technically superior to the competition. If they can get the X-Box2 out in a timely manner, they can get press about being innovative, they can get a rush of sales from nowhere, and they can stimulate their gaming division, giving them a third strong arm to thei

    1. Re:Many Small Things by drunkenbatman · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There are a lot of things that are a little off in this, and I think you might making big generalizations based upon your views. Have a salt shaker ready, but most of this is unintentional Longhorn FUD, some of it prolly deserved and at least you didn't mention Copland. :) MS isn't the only one who is going to experience this, others already have (ie, Copland, or even OSX).

      After watching OSs come and go over the years, I've basically come to the conclusion that a major Operating System project coming together when its supposed to is more of a happy accident than anything. This stuff comes up whenever every major OS is being developed. Writing the kinds of stuff MS is trying to do is hard, hard stuff. Just ask Apple... things might look all well and rosy over in their camp, but its not if you look closer. Same with Linux. And its only going to get harder as the demands increase, which is something any game developer understands.

      Bill Gates coined it best when he said "Momentum begets momentum". The problem is that once you reach a certain point (call it what you will, market saturation, etc) you have to push harder and harder to keep that momentum. IE, once you've reach escape velocity, you're cruising from the outer atmosphere to the moon. But to get to mars in a reasonable time frame is a bitch and a half. To get out of the solar system is an exponentially bigger bitch, etc, etc.

      That's ~95% of the problem MS is facing, which is the old adage of being a vicitim of your own success. Same thing is starting to happen with chip makers, as others have recently commented on... sure, speed can keep improving exponentially, but the cost to do so can become prohibitively expensive.

      But of course MS is going to get there, even if each super-dooper feature they've promised won't be in it. Apple's feature list kinda had to be paired down drastically, and even then it still shipped years late and couldn't play DVDs, just to keep some perspective. :) I just don't really think there's some perfect storm going on here, and I don't think a lot of others do either.

      I mentioned the momentum thing, which MS understands full well. When you're pushing that rock up the hill, the last 10% is often the highest. MS, like others, is simply going to try to raise the barrier to entry to a level where OSS competitors are having to play catch up to the next plateau. They're even doing it with Google: you better believe they're in the fight for their lives soon. Think Soviet Union vs USA: arms race, and whoever can outspend the other before one falls wins. Thats one aspect... the other is where a drug patent x expires, and the company combines x with y, and even though x+y may be nothing special they spend tens of millions of dollars advertising it to joe schmoe who, when they go to their doctor, only wants the purple pill.

      People are happy with x, and Linux gets x. Fine, MS spends a huge amount making x+y, then marketing it, and everyone wants x+y, which Linux doesn't have. OpenOffice seem to have too good of a .doc format? Alright, change it, with a lil DRM for spice. This could be any number of things, including online media. In short, MS is in a long hard slog until they reach the next technical plateau. Then they can cruise awhile, then its more billions.

      To specifically go through some of the problem points:

      1) Lack of new products prevents sales and damages customer loyalty.

      Debatable, but I'll give it to you. I don't think most people care about not having yearly OS updates, in fact if I had to wager i'd guess most consider it a feature. Knowing game x from 3 years ago still works is a big boon in joe sixpacks world. And mine, come to think of it. Now if 3rd party releases weren't hitting, yeah, obvious point. But since I don't know for sure, I'll give it to ya.

      2) Severe worms damage customer loyalty, increase costs in maintenance and customer service.

      In a perfect world, absolutely.

  20. I'm sure that... by Phidoux · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ... the prohibitively high cost of the recommended standard hardware configuration for Longhorn is also going to effect MS' sales.

    Of course, this is all good news for Linux on the desktop.

  21. General Trend by tbjw · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Does anyone else wonder what it might mean when a company as massively gigantically ginormous as Microsoft can't churn out a new release of a flagship program in a year or two? They are either doing something exceptionally cunning and devious or else they simply can't make a new version in this space of time, and I'm sure we all go with option b.

    I just think it means personal computers are now officially insane.

  22. Microsoft's research division by Raul654 · · Score: 4, Funny

    They can survive on the vast Research and Development(R&D) they've built-up over the years

    Yes indeed. In fact, their research division has been so successful, it has its own brand name.

    --


    To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
    --E.C. Stanton
  23. MS Sales Growth Limited by Poor Quality by PingXao · · Score: 4, Informative

    Despite all their service packs and hot fixes, they never really seem to FIX anything. Besides 'Doze itself there are a bunch of MS products I've used over the years that had serious problems. Not necessarily "bugs" per se, but features that didn't work as advertised or missing functionality in general.

    Case in point: VS.NET 2003 has several annoying bugs and problems that have been the subject of hundreds if not thousands of complaints. It's been out a while now and there's no service pack in sight. Maybe half a dozen features from VS6 were "removed". Sure, they added a hundred, but those 6 were commonly used and their disappearance causes angst and frustration on a daily basis. What's the MS response to all this? "Wait for Whidbey."

    Right. That's just been delayed again. And they want you to pay for it, of course. Why can't they just friggin' fix the garbage they've put out already? There are countless similar examples over the years. Access, Word, SQL Server... you name it and it has had bugs at some point that MS refused to fix. They say to wait for the next version, but that doesn't address the core issue that you have a piece of expensive software you already paid good money for and they refuse to fix it. They refuse responsibility to make it work right. Perhaps, at some point, software should have warranties if it costs beyond $X. I'm sick and tired of paying for MS software that they essentially sell "as is".

    This doesn't even begin to address the notorious problems they have with security. I think they're related. It goes to their culture of never having to fix anything. The recent years of being forced to patch holes and vulnerabilities goes against everything in their culture. That's why they can never get the security fixes "right".

    1. Re:MS Sales Growth Limited by Poor Quality by DissidentHere · · Score: 2, Funny

      Can I just say that I have to write a lot of code in T-SQL and MS SQL server does not have any bugs, it IS a bug.

      Thanks

      --
      "None of us are as dumb as all of us." - meeting mantra
  24. OK gang -- what do we need to do to beat them? by lawpoop · · Score: 3, Interesting

    So now we have an opportunity. Longhorn is supposed to be packed with great new features such as WinFS, C# and .net. Are we just going to copy them, or come up with some new personal computing paradigms? If so, what would they be?

    --
    Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
    -- Pablo Picasso
  25. lies, lies, and more lies by agwis · · Score: 5, Funny
    hey go into some detail on how the lack of new products also hurts multiyear subscriptions, because clients that buy the contracts expecting to get product upgrades may not renew if new items won't be available for a while.

    You /., linux zealots, and Windows bashers never present the true facts. Windows may be closed source and proprietary but there are many programmers that contribute freely to Windows. Just in the past month alone I've received all of these updates at no extra charge:

    • W32/Lovgate.x@MM!122880 05/06/2004
    • W32/Bagle.ab@MM 05/06/2004
    • DDoS-Chessmess 05/06/2004
    • BackDoor-CBA 05/05/2004
    • W32/Sdbot.worm.gen.o 05/05/2004
    • Exploit-LHA.demo 05/04/2004
    • W32/Sasser.worm.d 05/03/2004
    • W32/Netsky.ac@MM 05/02/2004
    • W32/Sasser.worm.c 05/02/2004
    • W32/Sasser.worm.b 05/01/2004
    • W32/Sasser.worm.a 04/30/2004
    • W32/Gaobot.worm.ali 04/28/2004
    • W32/Netsky.ab@MM 04/28/2004
    • Passreveal 04/28/2004
    • W32/Bagle.aa@MM 04/28/2004
    • Qhosts.apd 04/28/2004
    • W32/Misodene.b@MM 04/28/2004
    • Exploit-MS04-011 04/28/2004
    • W32/Misodene.a@MM 04/26/2004
    • W32/Netsky.aa@MM 04/26/2004
    • W32/Bagle.z@MM 04/26/2004
    • W32/Vavico.worm 04/23/2004
    • W32/Gbot.worm 04/22/2004
    • PWS-Iyus 04/22/2004
    • W32/Blaster.worm.k!backdoor 04/21/2004

    Not only that, but I received a new browser enhancement called mywebsearch, a free time synchronizer called precision time, and I can check the weather anywhere with my new (might I also add...free) weatherbug program.

    I understand that we can expect a ton more free programs/upgrades like the above when longhorn comes out. Quit bashing Windows and admit that more free programs/upgrades are available for us Microsoft users than you Linux/Mac users!

  26. Re:Bah by luwain · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Microsoft's Business model has always been to create an artificial demand for non-essential products. Why should you have to upgrade your OS every 2 years!?? I have clients who are still happily running their businesses with Windows 2000 Server and Windows 98SE clients; and if it wasn't for Microsoft eliminating support for NT and 95, they would probably still be happily using those products. What's especially annoying about Microsoft is that they keep removing features with every upgrade. When one of my clients upgraded from 95 to 98 they were surprised to find that they lost their intra-office e-mail (MS Exchange Server used to be free with 95) and couldn't understand why they had to BUY Outlook. Another client was incensed when they replaced one of their 98SE computers and were forced by Dell to purchase it with Windows ME (ugh!) only to find out that Microsoft had removed all support for tape drives. Another client was pissed off when they replaced one of their Win 98 clients with a Windows XP Home machine only to find out that he would have to pay more to upgrade to XP Pro because XP home wouldn't automatically log in to his NT server like his 98 clients could. Another reason Microsoft likes to release new OSes often is that it gives them many opportunities to "break" their competitor's programs (in the application "space"). Just ask Corel or Borland how they feel about MS's new OSes. Also, with each new OS, Microsoft becomes more draconian. Don't forget what they've done with Media Player (with the EULA that grants them the right to pretty much do whatever they want to to your computer). Now they're going to build DRM right into the OS!? We're supposed to trust Microsoft!!? I do like Win 2000, and that's the main OS on most of my Windows boxes. I think that Windows XP would be a fine OS if not for the mediocre apps you get with it (Internet Explorer, Outlook, etc...)and the annoying invasive features (Media Player's DRM, activation etc...). It would be nice if Microsoft would work on getting one OS right and then supporting it for a while, rather than giving us "disposables" (ME being the most obvious example). Microsoft treats it's Operating System just like it was an application suite. That's not what I call a stable platform. This also MS's strategy in the "development space". Everything's a moving target and there's attempts to make everything "proprietary Microsoft" (just look at Microsoft's attempts to derail Java with J++, and any resemblance of VisualBasic.NET to Visual Basic is purely coincidental...). I'm steadily migrating clients to Linux, on both the Server and Client side, and also in the "application and development space". Those I have migrated so far are very happy with the stability and security, and enjoy not feeling manipulated by microsoft's release schedules and arbitrary licensing.

  27. Re:Does anyone else ever get these weird ideas? by Doctor+Crumb · · Score: 3, Funny

    Only problem is that as you approach the speed of light, MS SpaceShip 2010 bloats up until it reaches infinite mass and is completely unmanoeuverable and unusable. so very much like Windows.

  28. I wouldn't count on it by Saint+Stephen · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I worked there 3 years. Every company meeting went like this:

    Jesus god all mighty we got a lot of money from Office and Windows this year. Here's their breakdown, and here's everybody else, some made money, some didn't, but who cares because Office and Windows really came through!

    Now, even though it's just ridiculous, we still expect 15-20% growth from Office and Windows again. And I'll be damned if they don't go out and do it, year, after year, after year.

    Trust me, if MS does one thing at all, it's make its numbers.

  29. real rich guys.... by zogger · · Score: 3, Informative

    ... only live in their own little worlds, with NYC or LA or DC rent structures guiding what they think things should cost, flying everywhere, lunches that cost what a working family uses at the grocery store for food for a week.
    And etc rantage there.

    quote-age here:

    ``The overwhelming majority of PCs are not running Windows XP and the opportunity is quite good for the Windows XP product wave ahead of Longhorn,'' Connors said in an interview in April.

    DUH, earth to rich guys, no it's NOT Mr. Connors, the overwhelming number of people are using 98, have gotten used to it, their hardware they paid MOST serious folding money for just a few short years ago still works,they get everything done they want to do, And there's *little to no reason* for them to get EITHER a new computer or a new operating system. Most folks could get by quite handily dropping 50$ on a new stick of ram, good to go for several more years, if they even feel like it, and people are actually getting hip to firewalls, ad aware action, etc. It's slowly turning around, but folks are learning and they aren't as easy to fake out with blinkenlights stuff any longer.

    Time for the hardware and for-sale OS guys to buy a clue, they can use some of their dot bomb stocks as "money" for that, there used to be a decade called the 90s, they all made tons of cash, OBSCENE huge amounts, now it's back to the real world. They will sell SOME, they will make SOME money, they won't *make* (sell ridiculous cheap to make 10 cents copies of stuff for huge $$$) money like the 90s, because people are now over that period of "irrational exuberence". Same like the movie and music guys need to bingo to that, people are just buying less of "stuff" now, especially stuff that is still more or less working OK, they are concentrating on the essentials, like paying the mortgage, the car off, kids in school, paying down CCs down that are already maxed, fed state and insane property taxes, etc. In fact, I can't think of a single person I know who is "clamoring" for some new windows OS, either XP or son of XP. People, when and if they get a new box, expect some OS on it, that's it for the most part. That's when they upgrade, and frankly, even the dullest is hip to whatever you buy brand new next week is borken and needs to be patched, so they figger, why spend an extra 100 clams just to download more patches starting the next week. They are already doing that now. Now from win 3.1 to 95 and then to 98 you got a lot of folks switched, since 98, it has slowed way way down, for the reasons I stated. They see "upgrading" as getting snookered now more than GEE WHIZZ, JISS CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT THAT NEW XPTURBO STUFF, GOT TO GET ME SOME RIGHT NOW!

    Ain't happening, and them rich dudes with degrees and status and hanging out with all the other rich dudes can't figger it out why not..

    Now, this isn't slashdot readers, or *some* businesses, but for everyone else, there is NO need, sales will stay slumped. And all the rich analysts and marketing folks trying to resurrect that gravy train just will not get it that spending another grand (whatever, I am ranting) for a new box and OS is not all that vital to people to whom that represents a real important level of "spare" cash to come up with, to do *exactly* what in essence they are already doing. If a new box and OS represented only like 25$ to joe paycheck, sure, they would go buy a new one. It's all relative.

    The future 5 to 10 years down the road now- is free software and real cheap hardware,almost throw away when it's broken hardware, and THAT'S IT, time for them boys to come up with a new business plan soon, hanging on to the 90s won't cut it for too many more years.

  30. Regardless of the true reason... by AvantLegion · · Score: 4, Funny
    Linux advocates will claim victory.

    Mac advocates will claim victory.

    BSD advocates will claim victory from beyond the grave.

  31. Rewording the header? by Jugalator · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "MS Sales Growth Limited by Delays in Windows"

    I wonder if this could be reworded as

    "MS Sales Growth Limited by Development Model"?

    Seems logical that, as the OS grows more and more complex, and the same product needs to do more and more (since it's closed source no-one else can offer assistance on the OS level), a single company with developers might not be enough to create an OS.

    I think Microsoft is struggling very hard to get Longhorn out reasonably quickly while still having enough features to encourage users to upgrade. It will be very interesting to see where all this goes with, say, the "Windows" two versions later than Longhorn or so... And how quick/efficient open source software development will be then.

    --
    Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
  32. XP+ by TastyWords · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is exactly why Microsoft has hinted before at an intermediate product between XP and Longhorn. It's not to provide customers with a better product while they are waiting, it's a form of Microsoft "passing the hat". Have we seen this behavior before? Think Windows 98, Windows SE, Windows ME. Did SE and ME provide anything sigificant to provide us with anything significant to put us in a position of XP? No. Did it provide Microsoft with anything? You bet. Pull together some early code, test it for compatibility with Win98, burn some CDs, push it onto the market, and all of the casual users run to BestBuy to keep their PCs up to date.

    Microsoft doesn't have a need to keep the shareholders happy, simply because there are very few outside an inner-circle within Microsoft (clumsy, but accurate). Remember: Microsoft hasn't|doesn't pay dividends, hence their cash reserve (warchest) in excess of $40B.(for those who doubt divdends are paid, I suggest you spend a few minutes of research. Some key words to help you in your search: "Microsoft stock Nader dividend". Nader is only involved after Microsoft failed to pay dividends for a long, long time and he tried to leverage them (so far, unsuccessfully). Basically, adding his name to the search helps to reduce the size of your search because without it, you'll get far too many hits and will be stuck with wading through them. Stock & owership are one thing when it comes to things such as purchasing another company or just plain leveraging, but when it comes down to hard, cold cash, little can be done to compete, hence Microsoft's true power.

    1. Re:XP+ by BCW2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Win Me proved that M$ still doesn't get it. It was the worst thing since Win 3.0, total junk. They are quite capable of throwing out garbage and getting people to pay for something "new" thats much worse than what they had. Remember Win 95 vs 3.11?

      And Longhorn will be no different, anyone that buys any M$ product before the release of SP1 for that product is a sucker. What other company cons people into paying them to be beta testers?

      --
      Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
  33. Who wrote NT? In how much time? by SkimTony · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm a bit skeptical about your figure of four years for Microsoft to produce Windows NT. If I recall correctly, Microsoft hired a bunch of engineers away from DEC, who then created Windows NT from some IP and code that Microsoft had left over from their collaboration with IBM on OS/2.

  34. sort of the same point by zogger · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That was my point. The 90s being the exuberant decade(everyone is going to get rich doing each others laundry, ie, the stock bubble), people who had never gone into personal computing went out and got one, at huge cost for the time, a brand new major appliance expense, equivalent historically to-say-electric refigeration talking over from ice boxes in terms of advances,or TVs replacing radios in the 50's, in terms of tech complexity, and totally new cost to be added to the family budget. It had to be squeezed in somehow, and the euberance part was the tipping over point, when the decision was made and that sweet spot of around 1200$ was hit for a decent desktop, people didn't want to get "left behind". They saw references to dot com this and that, people were asking for their email addy, etc, so they had to, consumerism pressures.

    The rest is as you say, and what I said, it's good enough now, there's very little need (VERY broadly speaking)to upgrade either hardware or software OS, either on the personal desktop or in office-type business. Really, the only practical need is more RAM on most machines, and firewalls and antivus softwares. Hence, slumping sales, dropping prices, etc.. the industry could have dropped prices earlier, but they still had huge untapped market, so they kept profits up, which further exasperated the market exuberance,they believed their own hype, went nuts, it was a false profit potential that got projected beyond a reasonable level of maintainance, it couldn't be sustained, so prices dropped as the newer assemblers and vendors hit the markets, by-passing a lot of the mainstream vendors,in other words, the rise of the whitebox and the local mom and pop and getting boxes in regular department stores really helped bust the bubble.

    Then the horror stories sunk in, viruses, patches, viruses, patches, crashes, etc. The machines kept working *sorta well enough* obviously, but by now, 2004, folks are leery, they is no native trust like there was even 6 years ago, they don't swallow the marketspeak, they got sophisticated in their lookings. People aren't that stupid, they learn from getting burned, and are holding out now for uber cheap almost free hardware before going forward again. it has to be orders of magnitude like 4 times better for 1/4 the cost, or something like that, before they will consider it, and they assume the OS is just free, no desire to go pay 1/2 or 3/4ths of what a new basic entry level pc costs at a whitebox shop for a disk in a wrapper on the shelf, when that new peecee has an OS on it anyway.

    Frankly, OSes are not worth 100$, or 189$ now, they are worth like 10-20 bucks, tops, what an entertainment cd or dvd costs, because that's all it is, bits and bytes on a disk. That's the only rational OS market level left, for in the future, IMO. Even server OS will go that route, inevitable, it's becoming almost common place for google and the admin you are paying already to be "the support infrastructure" of note.

    It's a freaking piece of plastic, people can see that. What past market prices were reflected ultra new, emphasis on sparkling, new, and improved, now it's just mostly new, and only very slightly improved,and not worth any major expense really.

    I don't know the stats, but I would guess (really is a guess I'll admit) XP installs are 90% or better OEM sale with new boxes, not people going out to upgrade their older boxes on purpose "just because" its new and shiny and sitting on the shelf.

  35. MS's Promise to PC Makers by solprovider · · Score: 2, Interesting

    6GHZ/2GB/1TB specs HAS to be a JOKE. The only way Microsoft would make money off the machine is new comptuers, seeing that older computers coundn't run it

    You are completely correct, and completely missed the point. MS has driven the hardware market for over a decade.

    Because MSWindows3.1 was limited to 16MB, the memory sellers had to keep the price on 16MB of RAM as high as possible, because they couldn't sell more to the public. When MSWindows95 both allowed and required more, RAM immediately dropped in price, but everybody was buying it.

    MSWindowsME, 2K, XP each required a better processor than the last because MS kept adding garbage to the OS that made it slow.

    Hard drives have finally escaped MS's control. Previously, you needed a larger hard drive when you installed a newer MS OS, MSOffice, or MSVisualStudio. The only other programs for the public that required hard drive space were games, and you could uninstall them. Now people are buying very large hard drives to store their music and movies. A friend just bought an additional 300GB drive because he filled his 200GB drive in less than 6 months by recording TV shows.

    MS's statement that Longhorn ("Windows 2010") will require 6GHZ/2GB/1TB was a promise to the PC manufacturers. The manufacturers could start selling Linux PCs that get great performance, and try to make money on support (with more expensive technicians.) Or they could stick with MS, and sell tons of hardware if Longhorn is ever released.

    The downside is that the only reason people upgrade today is when their PC is slowed by spyware and viruses. Again, MS gets the credit for making it possible to continue selling PCs to the general public. With older hardware, people would notice when an evil program was installed. Now they do not complain until they have around 50 spyware/viruses installed. If people started buying Linux PCs, viruses and spyware would not slow their PCs, and nobody (except gamers) would upgrade.

    MS's delay in releasing a new OS is because MS's sales growth is limited. They are having difficulty convincing people to upgrade to XP. Longhorn will not be have a killer app that gets everybody to buy a new PC. MS sales growth is slowing; soon it will decline. They desperately need a new cash cow, because MSWindows and MSOffice are becoming unwanted.

    Nobody bought WindowsXP without a new PC. Nobody upgrades MSOffice unless they buy a new PC. MS must keep delaying Longhorn until enough people have upgraded from MSWindows98 to make it worthwhile. A 1 GHz PC is more than good enough for the general public. MS needs to tell the PC manufacturers that business will improve if they wait long enough. That is why they have released those silly specifications.

    --
    I spend my life entertaining my brain.
  36. Microsoft should Grow the Hell Up by serutan · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Several years ago I read an article asserting that Microsoft was essentially behaving like a middle-aged adult hanging onto adolescence. This article might have been on the Motley Fool site, I forget. The gist of it was this:

    Companies typically innovate and take huge risks when they are young, because they have to in order to survive against their entrenched competition. Once a company becomes profitable and has a solid product line, it goes into the very different mode of repeating what it already knows how to do and improving itself. The focus is then on expanding market share, improving efficiency, making better financial deals and so forth. A company that succeeds at this phase accumulates a store of cash and starts focusing on things like mergers and acquisitions. By this time a company has evolved a complex management structure and a lot of rules and processes, which make everything the company does slower and more deliberate than before. These mature companies are much better at investing in other companies and leaving them to do the actual innovation.

    Microsoft, the article said, had already entered the mature stage and yet was still trying to act like a startup. That was a couple years ago. Today I think we are seeing this view of Microsoft vindicated. Anything it does now is on a much vaster scale than when Windows 3.0 was released in 1990. Every big release now involves thousands of developers and millions of customers around the world. With a multi-year release cycle, Microsoft can't possibly respond to the market; they can only try to dictate to it. Everything they release was planned several years ago.

    The statement that Microsoft has enough money to survive 5 years without any sales is an interesting bit of arithmetic, but that scenario is never going to happen. MS is a public company with thousands of stockholders, many of them large financial institutions. If Ballmer announced that Longhorn won't be ready until 2009 and will cost $30 billion, I doubt that the stockholders would let him or the existing board stay in place. There might even be talk of using that cash to buy a whole bunch of other companies and move away from doing actual development. Not that there's anything wrong with that. It would just mean Microsoft was finally acting its age.