Slashdot Mirror


Linus Not The Father Of Linux, According to Report

MrIrwin writes "According to this article on Yahoo, Linus is not the real father of Linux and Open source software is really just code nicked from other sources. " Groklaw has done a dissection of the press release. It's a press release by the Alexis de Toqueville Institution, who gets funding from MSFT, as well as believes that US IT troubles are because of free software. Oh, and terrorism works better because of open source, and the "Star Wars" program was a good idea.

103 of 867 comments (clear)

  1. Seeing as they like history...... by MrIrwin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    .....and seeing as how they have such close ties to MS, perhaps they could run a study as to how Microsoft came to be born.

    --

    And if you thought that was boring you obviously havn't read my Journal ;-)

    1. Re:Seeing as they like history...... by 2names · · Score: 5, Funny
      Does this mean Linus can stop paying child support?

      *ducks*

      --
      "I'm just here to regulate funkiness."
    2. Re:Seeing as they like history...... by kryonD · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yeah...based on the logic presented in that article, he is going to come to the conclusion that Linux was really the result of a gay marriage between Charles Babbage and Alan Turing.

      This is almost as funny as that "5 year study" on the Total cost of ownership of Win2K vs Linux that was released in 2001.

      --
      I've dirtied my hands writing poetry, for the sake of seduction; that is, for the sake of a useful cause. --Dostoevsky
    3. Re:Seeing as they like history...... by MrIrwin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I was reffereing to the fact that Paul Allen and Bill Gates started Microsoft porting Basic interpreters from a "borrowed" open source base.

      --

      And if you thought that was boring you obviously havn't read my Journal ;-)

    4. Re:Seeing as they like history...... by southpolesammy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      And related to the article, perhaps they can also shed light on the "questionable beginnings" of MS Windows.

      --
      Rule #1 -- Politics always trumps technology.
    5. Re:Seeing as they like history...... by Zak3056 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I happen to like the headline of this story from The Register: Alien puppet Linus swiped Linux from SCO, says balanced study. Trust the Reg to put this story in the proper context.

      Of course, what REALLY burns me is the line that says For almost thirty years, programmers have tried to build a Unix-like system and couldn't, somehow suggesting that UNIX is like the the tinfoil hat version of the pyramids of Egypt--some mysterious advanced technology that no one understands and couldn't possibly replicate.

      --
      What part of "shall not be infringed" is so hard to understand?
    6. Re:Seeing as they like history...... by superpulpsicle · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Well the 5 year study is still far better than the M$ commercial having 1 IT guy run the entire IT department because he now has one windows 2003 server replacing many win2k boxes. Then he claims to have saved the company $$$. At the same time M$ goes about saying they help create IT jobs. Wait... your 2003 server allows 1 person to run the IT department.

    7. Re:Seeing as they like history...... by plj · · Score: 4, Funny

      No, no, it was just that Linus had really boring at school, so he hacked to the M$ network and stole this and related files from their labs, and put his name and street address under it.

      It should have become the kernel of their new, more advanced version of Windows, but as the code was leaked they decided to abandon it, blamed the leakage to its head developer and fired him - some guy called Stallman - and hired Cutler to his place.

      This was a brief history of Windows NT and Linux, and an explanaition why Windows sucks and Linux rocks today. Stallman, on the other hand, felt pissed and took the lead of certain miserable and insignificant foundation called FSF, which developed viral licenses to communistic IP-dishonoring hippies, and later on claimed himself its founder.

      By they way, I also heard recently that Linus' file in Finnish citizenship registry keeps magically getting erased at random times ever since the said registry was moved to run on .NET platform.

      But now you have to excuse me, as I'm out of crack and my hands are shaking too badly.

      --
      “Wait for Hurd if you want something real” –Linus
    8. Re:Seeing as they like history...... by cowscows · · Score: 4, Funny

      some early-twenties geek with the writing level of an eleven year old.

      --

      One time I threw a brick at a duck.

    9. Re:Seeing as they like history...... by Handyman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Boy, that's a lousy article:

      1. Since when did NT stand for "Network Technology" instead of "New Technology"?

      2. It calls Windows 3.1 "the second OS with a GUI" (after the Mac), as if 3.1 was the first version of windows ever.

      3. I quote:

      Windows 3.1 was still based on MS-DOS because it was really just a front end. All it did was pass commands to MS-DOS which then passed commands to the kernel.

      Excuse me? What is this "MS-DOS" thing that passes things to "the kernel"? The only thing I can think of is that he might mean the MS-DOS prompt. This sounds as if Windows 3.1 did everything by simulating typing on the DOS prompt (i.e., "pass commands to MS-DOS") and letting the DOS prompt pass things on to "the kernel". My take on this: the kernel is actually what "MS-DOS" really is -- the command prompt is just the equivalent of a shell. I have no clue what separation between "MS-DOS" and "the kernel" this guy had in mind.

      4. Since when did Windows 98SE stand for "Special Edition" instead of "Second Edition"?

      5. Since when was Windows ME a bugfix release for the Y2K problem? I quote: The Y2K (Year 2000) problem was discovered and fixed with the release of Windows ME (Millennium Edition). This is actually funny, so it might be intended as a joke, but I don't think it is.

      6. If Windows NT was really based on the source of VMS, M$ would have definitely been sued. And they haven't AFAIK. Instead, M$ had just been done with the OS/2 cooperation debacle, and it's pretty probable that they took quite a bit of code from that to get them started on NT.

      There's more I could say, but I think this enough.

    10. Re:Seeing as they like history...... by PonyHome · · Score: 5, Interesting

      6. If Windows NT was really based on the source of VMS, M$ would have definitely been sued. And they haven't AFAIK. Instead, M$ had just been done with the OS/2 cooperation debacle, and it's pretty probable that they took quite a bit of code from that to get them started on NT.

      AFAIK, they were sued, and they lost, which is why DEC was allowed to modify NT to run on Alpha systems, and to distribute it themselves. It wasn't an outright theft, but code that migrated into NT with several coders that had come from VMS development.

    11. Re:Seeing as they like history...... by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 4, Funny

      Of course, what REALLY burns me is the line that says For almost thirty years, programmers have tried to build a Unix-like system and couldn't, somehow suggesting that UNIX is like the the tinfoil hat version of the pyramids of Egypt--some mysterious advanced technology that no one understands and couldn't possibly replicate.

      Apparently BSD isn't written by programmers either.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    12. Re:Seeing as they like history...... by jc42 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Alien puppet Linus swiped Linux from SCO, says balanced study.

      Linus is an alien. He is a Finnish citizen currently residing in the United States.

      (And take a look at the Finnish language. Talk about alien ... ;-)

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    13. Re:Seeing as they like history...... by WNight · · Score: 4, Insightful

      To fight this, simply name Brad Pitt (or better yet, Britney Spears) as the father of your next baby. Don't bother informing them or asking them for child support, until two years have passed.

      See how quickly the law gets changed. Laws like that are only laws as long as they don't hurt anyone rich.

    14. Re:Seeing as they like history...... by The+Original+Yama · · Score: 5, Funny

      According to The Microsoft Timeline (note: Flash animated):

      "Using the Altair 8800, Bill Gates and Paul Allen develop the first programming language, and begin an extraordinary, history-making journey."

      It looks like Bill and Paul were the proud parents of the a bouncing baby programming language, the first one ever!

    15. Re:Seeing as they like history...... by DaHat · · Score: 4, Offtopic

      And the most unfortunate aspect is that to be named as the father of a baby, in most cases, all the mother has to do is say that so and so is the father. I am forced to wonder if a named father could file fraud charges against the mother for naming him when he was not in fact the father... might not get you removed, but could teach an effective lesson.

      Why would the feminists care? Feminists complain about the possibility of a father 'hijacking' a woman's body for 9 months if the father wants the mother to carry a baby to term rather then aborting it... and yet they have no problem with 'hijacking' a man's wallet and life for 18+ years should she want to keep it and he not.

      Father's right is a very poorly understood area of law, and an even less fought for one.

    16. Re:Seeing as they like history...... by drinkypoo · · Score: 5, Informative
      3. MS-DOS has a kernel which is an executable loaded into memory first and a shell, e.g. command.com. Windows 3.1 carried everything out via assorted software interrupts and BIOS calls, except for video access, which was done by the driver and probably primarily involved direct video access. By "pass commands to MS-DOS" it means use interrupt 21h, MS-DOS services. The heavy use of the DOS interrupt and BIOS calls meant that windows could support anything dos could support. If you had a special keyboard which operated via a TSR, which in turn was typically activated by INT 16h (keyboard bios functions) as it had patched the vector table, it would work in windows, too.

      Thanks to "Assembly Language for Intel-Based Computers" by Kip R. Irvine (ISBN 0-13-091013-9) for keeping me factual...

      6. Windows NT definitely contains some code from OS/2, which Microsoft ended up licensed to have because of the event you allude to. And, it was authored primarily (in the core) by VMS developers. I'm to lazy to look up which, unfortunately, but the information is readily available.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    17. Re:Seeing as they like history...... by txviking · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Alexis de Toqueville would spin in his grave if he would know that an institude with his name is publishing a report slandering free (as in freedom) software. They should maybe study Alexis' book about the US democracy a little more !!!

    18. Re:Seeing as they like history...... by gaijin99 · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Wow... My jaw is still dropped, I thought you were making that up. "Surely," I thought, "even MS wouldn't try to pull such a major re-writing of history as to claim that they invented the first programming language." But there it is, on MS's own website.

      That's on the same level as the Party in 1984 claiming to have invented the steam engine. The Ministry of Truth lives on at MS. I wonder how long before they either a) quietly remove that particular lie, or b) claim that its *obvious* that they meant the first programming language for the Altair, not the first programming language ever. On a side note, I wonder how long it is before someone posts the inevitable "Slashdot slams on MS and the groupthink supports it" post.

      Another prime quote from their time-lie: "1997: Microsoft's Internet Explorer 4.0 gives users an unparalleled Internet client solution" Its marketing-speak gibberish running head long against reality. Wot the hell is an "Internet client solution"? I also like the breathless descriptive assumption that the world was just waiting for MS to provide this unparalleled Internet client solution becuase until then no one was actually able to use the net, it was just a vast wasteland until they came along and made it available to the masses.

      --
      "Mission Accomplished" -- George W. Bush May 1, 2003
    19. Re:Seeing as they like history...... by RenaissanceGeek · · Score: 5, Informative
      The best part is, they WEREN'T using an Altair 8800 to write the code! (they were a terribly designed machine: a reliable Altair 8800 is practially an oxymoron.)

      In fact, the Altair 8800 hadn't even been RELEASED yet, when they developed Basic for it: they wrote it to run on the emulator that they had written to run on the PDP-10.

      The funny bit? Because it was all emulated, they never needed to actually LOAD Basic onto their test "machine", so they never wrote a loader. Paul Allen wound up coding one up ON THE PLANE TO ALBUQUERQUE to demo the finished product! (hey, it had to be keyed into the unit from the front panel switches, anyway.)

      --
      What is the difference between a small revolutionary change and a large evolutionary change?
    20. Re:Seeing as they like history...... by Mr.+Piddle · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually, no one can AFFORD not to have a double-income household today.

      That isn't true. Not everyone _needs_ a perfect house in the suburbs with a thoroughbred mutt, a TV in every room, a cellphone for everyone, digital cable, broadband internet, an SUV with premium gas, brand-name cereal, designer clothes, 5000 watt 7-channel audio, etc. etc. etc.

      It is very possible to have a very good quality of life on one income, even a $40K/year income. In fact this just happens to be the median income in the USA. Saving for retirement would be hard, I know (but we have Social Security for that right? at least, that's where 7% of my income goes...), but just getting by pretty well month to month is perfectly doable.

      Kids who cry about not getting every PS2 game hot off the presses need to be put in their places, anyway. Spouses who cry about not getting every piece of every place setting for "their pattern" need to have a sock stuffed in their trap. Neighbors who think they are superior because of their Honda lawnmower are just assholes. This really isn't rocket science, folks.

      --
      Vote in November. You won't regret it.
  2. Shenanigans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful
    the "Star Wars" program was a good idea.
    Is that the one where they destroy all copies of Episode 1 and 2 by firing lasers from satellites orbiting Earth? I still think that's a good idea.

    TFA also mentions that Kenneth Brown (braindead author of the book about the study) interviewed RMS, but I fail to see any references to GNU/Linux in the write-up. I call shenanigans. Is it April 1st?

    And finally, cheers to Hemos. There five times as many links in the editorial insert than there are in the actual submission. Someone buy this man a beer.
  3. Someone has to say it by Drathus · · Score: 5, Funny

    "No... I am your father!"

    1. Re:Someone has to say it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Shouldn't that be...

      "Bill turns to the OS community and says: 'No... I am you father!'"

    2. Re:Someone has to say it by callipygian-showsyst · · Score: 5, Funny

      Use the SOURCE, Luke!

  4. What a farce. by grub · · Score: 5, Interesting


    Read to the bottom of the article:
    Brown's study is part a book he is writing on open source software and operating systems. Excerpts from the book will be published at www.adti.net on May 20, 2004.
    That says it all. Inflammatory statements preceding the release of a new book. This latest FUD is nothing more than a book promotion in the guise of a press release.

    --
    Trolling is a art,
    1. Re:What a farce. by yo303 · · Score: 5, Interesting
      To this day, we have a serious attribution problem in software development because people have chosen to scrupulously borrow or imitate Unix

      The author even contradicts himself, as to the motive of open source programmers. Perhaps he meant unscrupulous.

      yo.

    2. Re:What a farce. by swordboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The article lost all credibility when they used the word, "invent" to describe the process by which software is created.

      Software is developed, not invented. This is also one of the main reasons that the patent world is all screwed up.

      Oh well...

      --

      Life is the leading cause of death in America.
    3. Re:What a farce. by Lodragandraoidh · · Score: 5, Funny

      I can see the fat cats at the De 'Tokerville' institute, sitting around their conference table, thick smoke overloading the air ventilation system:

      "Yeah - we can kill two birds with one stone: write a book to make more money for our 'institute'.."

      "..I thought it was a 'foundation'..."

      "Whatever..."

      "...and throw out more FUD at the OS communists!!"

      "BRILLIANT!!"

      "Dude!! Are you goin' to Bogart that?"

      --

      Lodragan Draoidh
      The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
    4. Re:What a farce. by cshark · · Score: 4, Insightful

      To karma whore for a little and quote the article

      While you cannot group all open source programmers and programs together; many are rigorous and respectful of the intellectual property rights, while others speak of intellectual property rights with open contempt."

      But just because you think software patents are evil doesn't mean that you're breaking the rules with your stuff. It just means that you have an idology, and possibly a big mouth. Open source code depends on people obeying the rules on IP. Saying that linux is an unlicensed or "stolen" dirivitive work based on Unix is an awfully big claim to make without showing a line of code. I think this guy is either an idiot, or trying to capitalize on the mess with SCO. Obviously there are people that read this stuff.

      --

      This signature has Super Cow Powers

    5. Re:What a farce. by yo303 · · Score: 4, Funny
      Hmmm... good point. According to the article, then, the Linux programmers unscrupulously scrupulously copied Unix code.

      yo.

    6. Re:What a farce. by Giant+Panda · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes. This is sort of like saying one architect stole a building design from another because it has four sides and a roof.

    7. Re:What a farce. by Tin+Foil+Hat · · Score: 5, Interesting
      And lets not forget their belief that ideas may be owned. You'll find it in point number one at this document, published on the the AdTI website. It contains all sorts of factual errors, misconceptions, and outright lies. It was this quote, in particular, that really set me off:

      "Unfortunately however, the belief in free exchange characterizes a core disagreement with models (ie. proprietary software) that strive to own and protect ideas, to later leverage their value in the marketplace. Thus, mixing the open source world and the patent world has all the makings of an explosive relationship."


      Last time I checked, ideas themselves are not property and cannot be owned. Now, one may secure a right to capitilize exclusively on a new idea (patents), and one my reserve the right to copy original works (copyright), but nobody can own an idea. You may as well try to own the wind.

      In my mind, this is the crux of the matter. Many proprietary software companies want to be able to own ideas, to say, that's my idea and you can't use it unless you fork over all of your dough. They hire pundits and paid-for researchers to make absurd claims as though they are obvious truths.
      --
      No matter how many of my rights are taken away, somehow I still don't feel safe. -Frigid Monkey
  5. BLASPHEMY! by imidazole2 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Thou shalt be excommunicated from the church of *nix!

    --

    -Imidazole2
  6. My initial reaction? by SocietyoftheFist · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Acutal out loud laughter. I don't think that I need any more proof that Microsoft feels very threatened when I see puff pieces like this.

  7. "New Study" by thedillybar · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Let's face it, if you're funding one of the thousands of "new studies" going on, you can always make the result turn in your favor. If it's not, throw that study away and have someone else do it.

    There are so many studies on the same topics that the public never hears about, what good is the information in the few that the media choose to cover?

  8. Linus not Father of Linux... by wviperw · · Score: 5, Funny

    Yeah, and Gates is not the father of the BSOD.

    --
    Nothing disturbs me more than blind loyalism towards some unrealistic and over-idealistic notion of one's nationality.
  9. It's gotta be Darl by AtariAmarok · · Score: 5, Funny

    Isn't Darl McBride the true father of Linux? This is why he wants his $699. Effective immediately, Linux will be renamed to Darlsux.

    --
    Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
    1. Re:It's gotta be Darl by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Isn't Darl McBride the true father of Linux? This is why he wants his $699
      Funny, but the claims in this press release are much like SCO's claims: "Linus used stolen code in Linux! No, I'm not going to tell you which lines of codes he stole exactly, but I assure you they are there!". Only their money-spinning schemes differ. Darl says: "I own the stolen code and you owe me $699", whereas Brown says: "Buy my book to learn more".

      By the way,Darl is becoming more and more like that paperboy from Better off dead. "I - want - my - 2 dollars!!!". I wonder if he will meet a similar fate in the end?

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
  10. AdTI: -1 Troll by Xipe66 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They're obviously trolling. Don't feed.

    --
    Civilization is the process of setting man free from men.
  11. Strawman.. by k98sven · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Interesting how the whole report seems to be one big straw-man argument.
    (i.e. claiming the other is saying something they're not, and then showing that it is false)

    Their straw-man seems to be the idea (which noone, of course, has claimed) that Linux somehow was created in a vacuum.

    From there they proceed to show how Linux was (*shock*) a clone of Unix!
    (Probably leaving out the fact that there are literally dozens of them.)

    1. Re:Strawman.. by deimtee · · Score: 4, Funny

      By the same token, SDI was not created in a vacuum..
      I thought the whole idea of SDI was for lasers to be created in a vacuum.

      --
      I'm guessing that wasn't on their radar screen...
  12. Publicity Stunt by lukewarmfusion · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The Yahoo! article ends with a mention about this guy's (from AdTI) upcoming book. It sounds to me as if his claims are nothing more than a publicity stunt, generating interest in his book.

  13. then again... by Ryosen · · Score: 5, Funny

    and the "Star Wars" program was a good idea

    ...but not the "Christmas on Endor" version.

    --

    Ryosen
    One man's "Troll, +1" is another man's "Insightful, +1".
  14. Short Summary..... by idfrsr · · Score: 5, Funny


    As far as I can tell, the true father of Linux is in fact Al Gore. He invented it shortly after his fledgling idea of a net-inter caught on and became what we know now as the internet. It was originally called Alix, but had to be renamed due to copyright issues involving a book about wonderland....

    --
    "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away" -Tom Waits
  15. De Tocqueville by colmore · · Score: 5, Insightful

    De Tocqueville was a late French Enlightenment writer who traveled America and wrote in praise of American civil society, as opposed to French (which after having just gone throught the first revolution, and the dictatorship of Napolean, was looking pretty shitty.)

    Anyway, it's way too early in the morning for me to pull out a page reference, but one of the major themes in his _Democracy in America_ is that American society functions well due to the large number of volunteer organizations that Americans joined in, fire departments, sewing circles, sports clubs, free publications and that sort of thing. These things raise community awareness, and allow the democratic process to work, since he believed that it would fall apart if all democracy was was everyone voting their own pocketbook.

    Anyway, I'd say the Free Software movement in America is certainly a continuation of that civic spirit.

    --
    In Capitalist America, bank robs you!
    1. Re:De Tocqueville by Fnkmaster · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I agree with your take on De Tocqueville and that it is taking his name in vain to associate it with the conservative/big business shill institute. I am not sure that I'd say that the Free Software movement is as much about volunteerism though as I'd like. Definitely the Open Source movement, and other efforts like the Creative Commons project are about volunteerism and the idea of contributing to the commons for both selfish and common benefit. The Free Software movement, unfortunately, seems to alienate more conservative audiences with its association with RMS and others who seem more interesting in subverting the entire existance of closed source software and intellectual property in general.


      This concept scares away potential conservative allies - I know that people like the FSF probably don't care since they have a "with-us-or-against-us" sort of attitude that denies the middle ground. Anyway, I just wanted to make sure the ideological connections being drawn here fit - this condemnation of Linux and Linus as a person is despicable and I hope to God these people take a massive public beating over making these kinds of rhetoric-filled accusations.

    2. Re:De Tocqueville by b-baggins · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Another one of De Toqueville's major themes was that it was America's being steeped in Christianity that helped keep it free. He made extensive reference to the vast number of churches and the moral character they instilled in Americans. De Toqueville was of the same opinion as John Adams. Basically that American government could only work with a moral people.

      --
      You can tell a great deal about the character of a man by observing those who hate him.
  16. Mods? by slycer9 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Mod story -1 Troll.

    Jesus Christ, posted on the front page of /. for chrissakes.

    Next story::
    Tinfoil hats, snazzy wardrobe accessory or anti-M$oft mind-control device?

    Or::
    Bill Gates wants to control your fridge with NT4.0.

    [/rant]

    --
    Don't park drunk, accidents cause people.
    1. Re:Mods? by kju · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Of course this needs to be on the front page of slashdot. Why you ask? Because now you know about this bullshit story and book, and be prepared, when someone (like a stupid executive) aproaches you with that FUD and you already know whats in the book and can explain that its nonsense.

      You should always be informed about the moves of your opposites.

  17. Now we know why SCO's going away by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've wondered aloud why Microsoft had pulled the rug out from underneath SCO, and now it's obvious. They're going to start using these idiots, and probably others, to spread the same stupid message.

    Get used to it, folks, it's not going to get any better anytime soon. That's good news, too, since the credibility of this sort of stuff has been mostly destroyed by Darl's loud mouth.

  18. Obvious problem by tonythepony · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While you cannot group all open source programmers and programs together; many are rigorous and respectful of the intellectual property rights, while others speak of intellectual property rights with open contempt.

    Here's one immediate problem with the way this guy thinks - the two groups of programmers he mentions are not mutually exclusive as he implies. One can speak out about the problems with IP rights and still be respectful and careful about not violating them.

  19. Linus Torvalds should sue the author by FreeUser · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Linus Torvalds should sue the author for libel and defamation of character (and extend it to slander if the author is making oral statements publicly).

    This is not only obviously false (and easilly provable), it is likely that it can be shown that anyone purporting to write a book on the subject (free software) should have had enough brain cells to rub together to do a modicum of background research that conclusively demonstrates what they are saying is false (groklaw for starters, fsf, eff, etc.).

    Any profits from this libelous publication should go to the injured parties: Linus, whose professional reputation has been viciously besmirched.

    --
    The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
    1. Re:Linus Torvalds should sue the author by FreeUser · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You are assuming that there is a direct profit. This is a wrong assumption. The book and the report are least likely to break even. The profit will come from several well known companies (not just MSFT) which finance this institution and will not appear on the books as a product of this "research"

      That is quite likely true. Nevertheless, financially bankrupting the author for his libellous actions would discourage others from throwing themselves on the grenade for MSFT and friends...which is exactly how the law is intended to function in these cases.

      I would frankly nail the libellous sons-of-bitches to the wall, profit or no.

      --
      The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
    2. Re:Linus Torvalds should sue the author by jdreed1024 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Linus Torvalds should sue the author for libel and defamation of character (and extend it to slander if the author is making oral statements publicly).

      If you RTFA, you'll see there's a whole lot of conditionals in there. AdTI might be a bunch of idiot sheep, but I bet they have a halfway competent legal department that would make them stop short of anything that could get them sued. And we don't know the sources. I mean, I could go find a bunch of conspiracy mags and websites and use them as a source to write a press release that says "Surgeon General might be controlling minds with flu shots". Heck, I have my "sources". And I didn't make any accusations, just threw the idea out there. I'm pretty sure the surgeon general can't sue me for that. (The government can throw me in Guantanamo Bay, but that's different).

      What Linus _should_ do is write a well-thought-out rebuttal and get it into the major news outlets to let everyone know how ridiculous these claims are. This is one of the few times when something ridiculous does merit a response. If it was from some wacko on Usenet, sure, ignore it, no one will care. But rebutting their claim and providing solid proof will help publically discredit this istitute, which is exactly what is needed.

      --
      There is no sig, there is only Zuul.
    3. Re:Linus Torvalds should sue the author by Sangui5 · · Score: 4, Funny

      I would frankly nail the libellous sons-of-bitches to the wall, profit or no.

      I thing you meant libellous bastards.

  20. Register article.... by southpolesammy · · Score: 4, Informative
    --
    Rule #1 -- Politics always trumps technology.
  21. The road goes both ways by LordDartan · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I think it's far more likely that open source coded is in closed source software. Since open souce, by defintion, is open for all to see, wouldn't companies have lawsuits (SCO excluded) over their stolen code? Since nobody can see the code to closed software, I think it's far more likely that open source code has been taken to be used in closed source software (since nobody that isn't involved in the project will be able to see it).

  22. I can prove Linux didn't come from Linus! by cheesedog · · Score: 5, Funny
    The basic argument is:

    1. Linus was a crazy communist college kid
    2. Linux has succeeded where billion-dollar software developments have failed

    And since Lemma 1.7 says "no communist is worth his own weight in dog excrement," it naturally follows that Linux must have originated elsewhere.

    I propose one of the following:

    • Space aliens implanted Linux into Linus as a trojan horse against humanity. After Linux becomes ubiquitous, our intergalactic "friends" will return to harvest our bodies for food.
    • Soviets stole AT&T Unix, used hybrid nordic programmers to improve it with stealth soviet cold-war technology, and unleashed it as a trojan horse against humanity. After Linux becomes ubiquitous, our Russian "friends" will return to harvest our bodies for food.
    • Artificial Intelligence experiments from MIT escaped the lab and created Linux. They then implanted Linux into Linus as a trojan horse against humanity. After Linux becomes ubiquitous, our AI "friends" will return to harvest our bodies for food.
    • Darl McBride created a pile of cotton swabs. He named them "Georgie" and claimed that Georgie was a new type of advanced television technology for watching reruns of the Smurfs. Good for him!

    I think you'll see the logic in all of this immediately.

    1. Re:I can prove Linux didn't come from Linus! by southpolesammy · · Score: 5, Funny

      Space aliens implanted Linux into Linus as a trojan horse against humanity. After Linux becomes ubiquitous, our intergalactic "friends" will return to harvest our bodies for food.

      Cthulhu will not be pleased.

      --
      Rule #1 -- Politics always trumps technology.
  23. NASA probably wrong. Moon may be made of cheese. by khasim · · Score: 5, Funny

    After many interviews with astronauts and rocket scientists, I have determined that the moon is probably made of cheese.

    I tell all in my soon-to-be-released book.

    Find out how NASA lied!

    Excerpts to be published on my website.

    (Note: This is not a shameless self-promotion gimmick. It's not. Really.)

  24. Re:Sounds more like MS/DOS by helf · · Score: 5, Informative

    um.. DOS was written from scratch by Tim Paterson. it was originally called qdos, which stood for "Quick and Dirty Operating System." MS bought the rights to it and renamed it MS-DOS. It looks similiar to cp/m but its an entirely different OS. look here http://www.patersontech.com/Dos/Micronews/paterson 04_10_98.htm

  25. "Scrupulous" Imitation by Bob9113 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    people have chosen to scrupulously borrow or imitate Unix.

    I guess he's saying this to contrast the way Microsoft unscrupulously imitated CPM/DOS, Lotus 1,2,3, Macintosh, WordPerfect, Stac . . .

  26. Ok, I'll bite by jaymzter · · Score: 5, Insightful
    the "Star Wars" program was a good idea</sarcasm>

    _Star Wars_ was a good idea. The same way successive U boat campaigns against the British were a good idea, the same way Sherman's march to the sea was a good idea. IOW, hit them in the wallet or flatten their production capability. Because of the great debate on Star Wars and the intransigence of the Reagan administration on the issue, the Sovs had to take it as something plausible, and thus we were able to force them to divert funds and resources to a possible chimera.

    It doesn't matter whether you think Star Wars can work now or not, it's been almost 20 years since it was first proposed, so the reality now has no bearing on then. For what it was used to accomplish, Star Wars was a great idea.

    --
    If thou see a fair woman pay court to her, for thus thou wilt obtain love
  27. AdTI: Handouts for Neocons by Tarantolato · · Score: 4, Informative

    Fact: AdTI employs James Kilpatrick as a senior fellow. Kilpatrick made a career defending segregation and apartheid.

    Fact: AdTI employs John Norquist, the not-so-big-time younger brother of big-time conservative activist Grover Norquist.

    Fact: AdTI president Ken Brown's sole research qualification is a BA in English from George Mason. He has built a career out of milking shady publications, agent-of-foreign-power lobby groups, and dubious business-academica-government incest groups.

    Half of the links from the AdTI front page are broken. The other half send you to repositories of op-eds and recorded radio shows.

    This is not a research institute. Not even a bad research institute. This is a demi-journalistic hack shop where goldbricking bottomfeeders of right-wing policy studies and editorial-writing filch cash from gullible corporations in return for hastily-written hokum.

    Please do not post any more from these con artists. I'm sure they get paid by the hit.

    1. Re:AdTI: Handouts for Neocons by ChopsMIDI · · Score: 5, Informative

      Fact: AdTI employs John Norquist [adti.net], the not-so-big-time younger brother of big-time conservative activist Grover Norquist [mediatransparency.org].

      Using John Norquist as the example here is a bad idea, since (even though his brother may be conservative) John Norquist is in fact quite the liberal (Up until a few months ago, he was mayor of Milwaukee, where I live, for many,many years).

      Hardly the "Neocon" you claim him to be.

      --

      How could I say to men: "Speak louder, shout! For I am deaf!"? -Ludwig van Beethoven
  28. Uh huh.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And Honda cars are a 'stolen product' because they have steering wheels and gearshifts just like Fords.

  29. That is not terribly accurate by FreeUser · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Linux started out as a Minix clone. Though it is more than that now, it's roots lie much closer to Andy Tannenbaum than they do to the Finn.

    There is nothing to "admit." Linus wrote Linux as a i386 replacement for MINIX (which only ran on 80286 machines) because he wanted a UNIX he could use and play with on his hardware. He wrote the entire thing from scratch ... not using a single line of Tannenbaum's available, but not open source or free, source code.

    Anyone looking at the old Tannenbaum book (which has the source code to MINIX in it) and the early Linux kernel code can easily tell they were written independently of each other. Anyone, that is, without an anti-free software agenda and ax to grind...

    Calling Linux a MINIX clone is about as accurate as calling Linux an AT&T Sys V or generic UNIX clone ... that is to say, partially true, but also not really correct, and an overall mischaracterization of the effort (an OS written completely from scratch, not copied from another) and the goal (a usable, free UNIX-clone, not a usable, free, specific-UNIX-implimentation clone).

    --
    The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
    1. Re:That is not terribly accurate by Kismet · · Score: 4, Informative

      You're funny. Of course, ignorant people won't see your joke, so I will lay to rest any unease that might arise when someone who is not acquainted with actual facts reads your little gem.

      Linus was never an intern at Bell Labs.

      Linux was originally written in Linus' bedroom at his mom's apartment in Helsinki, Finland. Linus was attending University at the time.

      Linux started out as a little terminal program for reading Linus' email - I believe he could boot right into it without having to load MINIX. Linus kept adding features to it until it became more of an OS Kernel, and then other people started helping out with development.

      Linus was impressed with the Unix philosophy and design, but saw limits in MINIX.

      Linux never had MINIX code in it.

      Linux was already very popular by the time Linus moved from Finland to California. Linus went to work for Transmeta. More recently, Linus moved to OSDL.

      As far as we know, Linus has never worked around actual Unix System V source code, nor with AT&T or Bell Labs.

      Linux was written to published POSIX standards.

      There is no reason to believe that Linux contains anything but 100% original code, donated by Linus and a group of volunteers around the world. It does look like SGI once mistakenly contributed a small amount of System V code in one of their hardware drivers, but that code was redundant and soon removed from the kernel.

      Audits on Linux code have now been performed by SGI and by a an open-source "insurance" firm. Probably others have also done audits.

      These comparisons done between Linux and Unix have revealed very little similarity at the code level. Even SCO's lawyers now admit that there are no significant code similarities between Linux and System V. You will recall that SCO was not able to produce the apparent "millions" of lines of stolen code when ordered to do so by the Judge. Of course we can't find the code, SCO, said, because it's from AIX, not from System V.

  30. Linux's actual father by Aexia · · Score: 4, Funny

    OSAMA BIN LADEN!

    Thus, by using Linux, you're supporting the terrorists.

    Everyone please report to the near Homeland detention center for "reprogramming".

  31. Re:Sounds more like MS/DOS by squiggleslash · · Score: 4, Interesting
    This is true, but actually the grandparent's point stands. The DeTokeville Institute's allegation is that Linus didn't "invent" Linux because it was obviously heavily influenced by Unix, in some ways being the kernel to a intentional clone of Unix.

    QDOS, while a ground-up rewrite, and while having some differences, was very clearly heavily influenced by CP/M, to the point that most CP/M programs could be ported without major changes (with about as many, indeed, as you'd expect between SysV and GNU/Linux.)

    It's all kind of bizarre really, isn't it.

    --
    You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
  32. Windows Vs. Linux in TCO by Orion+Blastar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I love the Linux Mainframe comparison, they compare Linux on an IBM mainframe to Windows 2003 Server on a dual Xenon server. Then cite the Linux machine as having a higher TCO becuase of the cost of the mainframe, the power bill, the maintenance contract, etc.

    Or how about the Windows vs. Linux report that does not put a cost on the security breaches and malware attacks on Windows systems?

    --
    Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
    1. Re:Windows Vs. Linux in TCO by sharkey · · Score: 5, Funny
      Windows 2003 Server on a dual Xenon server.

      Just wait until you see it on a Neon server. It'll be a glowing review!

      --

      --
      "Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
  33. The Beast is more afraid of us than we of it by WCMI92 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This "study" which is about as credible as a plagarized term paper proves it.

    Linux is Microsoft's latest, last, and to date, MOST DANGEROUS competitor. NONE of Microsoft's classic tactics can defeat it, as:

    1. Linux is cheaper (how do you get cheaper than free
    ?).

    2. Linux is regarded to be as good if not better in quality and functionality.

    3. Linux cannot be bought.

    4. Linux cannot be "embraced, extended, extinguished" because of the GPL license.

    So, what MS has tried to do over the years is slander it. Which, even they have admitted hasn't worked.

    I'm abut this cynical... I think that MS backed SCaldera merely so the could try to make the "Linux has higher TCO" argument fly... Then, when Darl proved to be his own worst enemy, they've pulled the plug and now are back to slander.

    This piece is out and out slander and defamation against Linus Torvalds. This "institute" which I won't name because they are slandering yet another great name by using it needs to be sued.

    --
    Corporatism != Free Market
  34. Why those muckrakers! by yoshi_mon · · Score: 4, Funny

    This is almost like saying Bill Gates didn't write MS DOS! ...oh wait...

    He didn't.

    --

    Really, I know what I'm doing...Ohhhh, look at the shiny buttons!
  35. Pedantry and Deliberate Misinterpretation by maximilln · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have experienced, on many occasions, the burn of a scrutinous pedant seeking to demerit my efforts. In this particular case K. Brown is deliberately misunderstanding Linus' "invention of Linux". Linus has never claimed to be the father of open source nor has he ever claimed to be the father of the POSIX standards upon which *NIX-like operating systems are built. As Linux has achieved a mild popularity those in the public who are not familiar with the history of computing have begun to associate Linus with the invention of *NIX-like operating systems since they only know of one: Linux. They have associated Linus with the inception of open source software because they are ignorant of the origins of software and only know of one open source arena: Linux.

    Linus is being attacked because of common perception built upon a basis of ignorance. This is a common tactic used to discredit and undermine support for anyone who stands at the forefront of a collection of ideas which challenges the established financially successful, and often monopolistic, "powers-that-be".

    If this even bothers Linux, if he even takes more than a few moments out of his day to be concerned with it, then I can empathize with him. For his sake I hope he takes the higher road: ignore it and concentrate on what he does best.

    --
    +++ATHZ 99:5:80
  36. Murky FUD by catdevnull · · Score: 5, Informative

    Uh, I think Linus's claim to the first Linux kernel is quite valid and he cited prior art:

    "As I mentioned a month(?) ago, I'm working on a free version of a minix-lookalike for AT-386 computers."

    I think the lineage to Unix via minix is obvious. Linus wrote his own kernel. The other pieces may have already existed, but the kernel was new. Unless he stole it from another Linus who conveniently named the project "Linux" after himself.

    Over the last 13 years, many others contributed to the kernel and development which, according to SCO, may have included some questionable copy-paste commands, but I think the beginning is clear and the origins are clearly cited.

    See here:
    http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1991Oc t5.0541 06.4647%40klaava.Helsinki.FI

    I'm not sure the author of the article really understands what Linux is and what Linux is not. He is right about varying degress of fanaticism and the very loose definition of "open source." No matter where you get your software, you're at the mercy of the developer to maintain it--commercial or open source. For example, I think the Linux community has been very good about responding to security issues compared to much larger corporations who have a very loose definition of quality control. When those corporations begin to loose money to smaller groups who out perform, then those corporations pay for studies that skew the truth and spread FUD.

    Read the article--the math isn't all that fuzzy.

    --

    I might know what I'm talkin' about, but then again, this is Slashdot...
  37. I finally get Microsoft's and SCO's business model by Jugalator · · Score: 4, Funny

    Try to reduce the Linux community by litterally annoying their followers to death. Particularly the zealots will get issues if they have weak hearts (which most have since geeks don't exercise) while composing their forum posts. A very clever plan indeed...

    --
    Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
  38. Re:Sounds more like MS/DOS by nathanh · · Score: 4, Insightful
    um.. DOS was written from scratch by Tim Paterson. it was originally called qdos, which stood for "Quick and Dirty Operating System." MS bought the rights to it and renamed it MS-DOS. It looks similiar to cp/m but its an entirely different OS. look here http://www.patersontech.com/Dos/Micronews/paterson 04_10_98.htm

    I think that is entirely the point. Linux was also written from scratch[1] but based upon UNIX design and philosophy[2]. It (Linux) looks similar to UNIX but it's an entirely different OS.

    The analogy is entirely apt. Microsoft got its big break by selling a CP/M knockoff. Linux is a UNIX knockoff. So what? Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

    Perhaps somebody should release a whitepaper: "Bill Gates is not the father of MS-DOS". Could equally well follow that up with "Bill Gates is not the father of MS-Windows".

    [1] Pedant Points: Linus says that the early (never distributed) versions of Linux contained Minix code but all that code was removed before the first ever public release.

    [2] More Pedant Points: Some people might say Linux was based on Minix design, but Linus early on said he wanted to follow POSIX specs. So Linux is more correctly a POSIX wannabe.

  39. No rebuttal necessary by TrekkieGod · · Score: 5, Insightful
    What Linus _should_ do is write a well-thought-out rebuttal and get it into the major news outlets to let everyone know how ridiculous these claims are.

    I don't think Linus should bother. As it is, everyone who matters can see how ridiculous that is. If Linus places a rebuttal in major news outlets, it'll give credibility to these people (or at least more public controversy, as they will post a response themselves, then Linus will have to reply, and this will continue to go on fueling publicity for Brown's book). They WANT people to take them seriously and reply. They're powerless if we don't.

    Really...I'd just rather see Linus's usual witty replies in a board somewhere, definitely not in a major news outlet. It won't give them fuel to their campaign and I'll be able to laugh, perhaps as much as I laughed after reading their press release.

    --

    Warning: Opinions known to be heavily biased.

  40. Terrorism? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    I am not sure if terrorism works better because of open source, but that Nicholas Berg video appears to have been encoded in WMV format.

  41. Complimentary tin-foil considerations by maximilln · · Score: 5, Interesting

    At first reading I saw this as a deplorable move to sway public opinion against Linus, Linux, and other open source providers. After a few moments of thought, however, I see that this may be the forefront of a larger, even more deplorable, endeavor. Consider the following quote:

    -----
    "The report," according to Gregory Fossedal, a Tocqueville senior fellow, "raises important questions...While you cannot group all open source programmers and programs together; many are rigorous and respectful of the intellectual property rights..."
    -----
    Could this be a movement to undermine Linus' right to release Linux under GNU/GPL? Could this even be the beginning of legal research to undermine GNU/GPL itself?

    If enough lawyers and businessmen can be swayed to believe that Linux itself is a product of UNIX then, though a convoluted interpretation of patent law and prior art, is it possible to invalidate GPL as it applies to programs written to conform to POSIX standards? Can the publishing rights for POSIX compliant programs then be assigned to the creators of the POSIX standards or the organizations that have implemented them first: ie. Bell Labs, AT&T, and UNIX?

    Consider that MS didn't invent HTML, TCP, SMTP, or other common standardized protocols yet they seem to have an enormous amount of intellectual property assigned to them which prevents other people from producing software which competes with them in those arenas on the MS platform. I don't know the nature of the POSIX organization, where it's funded, or how cohesive it is with respect to legal and business support. However it does seem possible that malicious lawyers could argue that *NIX type operating systems, patented by corporate entities, are the first major implmentation of POSIX standards and that any products which come afterwards are an infringement of those intellectual property rights. This then leads to the arena of the status and age of the patents and how willing the original patent holders would be in funding the legal endeavor to pursue this track.

    It sounds far-fetched but we all know that this similar roundabout claim of intellectual property has been pursued by SCO. With MS grasping for straws to slow the advance of Linux it could be a legal filibuster to sandtrap Linux. MS and their allies can afford enormous teams of lawyers that can turn out legal briefs by the thousands and the stories of their rapid acceleration of patent submission have also become popularly known. With enough patent filings and a popularly accepted, however untrue, argument about the nature and origin of Linux and its right to be distributed under GPL it might be their strategy to legally discourage organizations from adopting it.

    With enough legal clout it is conceivable that, if the legal community could assign POSIX standards and *NIX operating systems as prior art preceding Linux, that they could force Linus to legally accept being bought out by the major operating system vendors who could choose to shelf it or turn its direction into nonproductive, bloating development.

    The 100 mpg carburetor may be tin-foil but this situation is certainly real.

    Consider this analogy: intellectual property is like a liquid beverage. It's everywhere and everyone has some. One day a large corporation patents lemonade. A week later a local company begins producing lemonade and giving it away for free charging only for the cost of distribution and the container (a cup, glass, mug, whatever). A month later the large corporation claims that its lemonade patent incorporates the property of any similar beverage based on lemons and sends a team of lawyers to shut down the local lemonade company. In this analogy software is a beverage. POSIX is a lemon based beverage. The large corporations would be those who made *NIX type operating systems and the local distributor would be Linux.

    --
    +++ATHZ 99:5:80
  42. "+5 Insightful" to whom? Gullible lib-lefties? by pjkundert · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Your post begins with some promise, pointing out the dubious intellectual heritage of key AdTI fellows, but then... somehow makes the leap into generalisations about conservatives?

    Not to belabour an obvious point, but... Not everyone who is stupid is a conservative, and not every conservative is stupid. You aren't helping your cause (whatever that is), by picking up some limp hack, and shaking him about as an example of the "Evil Neocon".

    In an attempt to paint all conservatives with the AdTI brush, you have made the same error that AdTI makes -- taking a shallow understanding of a concept, and make inflamatory generalisations about a group.

    As both a conservative and a supporter of software Libre, I find your persistent rantings both tiring, and comical. Surely all "liberals" can't be as shallow as you are? If you are going to continue searching for examples of "Neocon" evil, at least try to come up with some examples worthy of disdain, instead of derision.

    --
    -- -pjk Perry Kundert perry@kundert.ca http://kundert.2y.net
  43. Amazing FUD by LuYu · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Wow, that is some really amazing FUD:

    Among other points, the study directly challenges Linus Torvalds (news - web sites)' claim to be the inventor of Linux (news - web sites). In one of the few extensive studies on the source of open source code, Kenneth Brown, president of AdTI, traces the free software movement over three decades
    By this logic, MSWindows and MacOS were invented by Xerox. Notice how they do not speak about the fact that only the kernel was invented by Linus. They also leave out the fact that just because something can run Unix programs does not make it Unix and the fact that running Unix programs does not magically change the OS into Unix.

    This quote is fun, too:

    "The report," according to Gregory Fossedal, a Tocqueville senior fellow, "raises important questions that all developers and users of open source code must face. While you cannot group all open source programmers and programs together; many are rigorous and respectful of the intellectual property rights, while others speak of intellectual property rights with open contempt."
    Who cares if programmers have "open contempt" for "intellectual property"? Abiding by the law is not the same as agreeing with it. Since when does everybody have to believe that all laws are good? Is this a communist system where no dissent is allowed? I hope we still have the freedom to think and say what we want.

    To this day, we have a serious attribution problem in software development because people have chosen to scrupulously borrow or imitate Unix.
    They are trying to say "borrowing = stealing". Even copyright (as opposed to maritime) piracy is not theft.

    This article is really a work of art. The fact that someone could say this about Linux and not the BSDs, which are genetic unices, blows my mind. Then again, the BSDs have already cleared themselves in court.

    --
    All data is speech. All speech is Free.
  44. Its not invention by tkrotchko · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There is a creative process involved with writing software, but its no more invention than the act of writing music is called "inventing music".

    Music is "composed".
    Software is "developed".

    There's nothing "inventable" about software.

    Unless you think Hayden should have took out a patent on the "Symphony"

    "Collection of music that is played by many musicians such that music is broken into theme, counterpart, resolution in 1 to multiple parts. Music is group together to form a sound picture which is then used to inspire both performer and audience. It includes the following elements:
    1) White pages with black dots on them to represent exact musical score
    2) Wood or metal instrument which is plucked or blown to create sound
    3) Sound in claim #2 is used in accordance with claim #1 to produce sound that has coherence
    4) Each musician has a slightly different copy of the music
    5) The claims in #4 when performed in exact time increments produces sound variations that are impossible with a single instrument.
    6) Additional performer (known as conductor) will stand and wave arms
    7) Said conductor in claim 6 will wave arms in unique motion depending on type of time in part 5 above such that there is a distinct way of waving arms according to number of beat in measure
    8) As music is broken into movements, time may be taken to give audience a rest. Audience may leave to get drinks in the lobby at this time.

    --
    You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
  45. Microsoft's history of dishonesty and crime by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    > I was reffereing to the fact that Paul Allen and Bill Gates started Microsoft porting Basic interpreters from a "borrowed" open source base.

    Why stop there? Almost every victory that Microsoft can claim has been achieved through dishonest, if not criminal means. Consider...

    MICROSOFT DEFEATS DR-DOS BY:

    - Fraud: Windows issues a warning about DR-DOS that MS knows is false.
    - FUD: The DR-DOS evidence includes Microsoft memos planning the FUD campaign.
    - Sabotage: Windows 95 has secret calls to prevent it from running on DR-DOS.
    - Sabotage: MS purposely keeps DR-DOS out of the Windows Beta-test program (also documented by evidence).

    MICROSOFT DEFEATS GEOWORKS BY:

    - Sabotage: New MS-DOS release causes Geoworks to fail.

    MICROSOFT DEFEATS WORDPERFECT BY:

    - Fraud: MS publicly announces that OS/2 is the future direction.
    - Sabotage: MS provides WordPerfect with faulty Windows APIs.

    MICROSOFT DEFEATS OS/2 BY:

    - Fraud: Microsoft pretends to support OS/2, then abandons it.
    - FUD: Microsoft pays people to disparage OS/2 in posts in forums, letters to the editor, etc.
    - Suspected Theft: Microsoft is believed to have borrowed OS/2 IP to use in Windows 3.1.
    - Suspected Sabotage: Microsoft is believed to have provided less than their best code for OS/2.

    MICROSOFT DEFEATS AMIPRO BY:

    - Sabotage: Windows 95 causes AmiPro function-keys to break.

    MICROSOFT DEFEATS NETSCAPE BY:

    - Contract Interference: Microsoft pays sites to stop using Netscape (thus "cutting off Netscape's air supply").
    - Extortion: Microsoft threatens VARs who preload Netscape.
    - Extortion: Microsoft threatens Apple with the cancellation of MS Office for the Mac, unless Apple drops Netscape.

    MICROSOFT ATTEMPTS TO DEFEAT JAVA BY:

    - Sabotage: Microsoft tries to "kill cross-platform Java by growing the polluted [J++] Java market."
    - Fraud: Microsoft memo shows plan to keep quiet about the incompatibilities so that J++ users will unintentionally create Windows-only code.

    AND NOW MICROSOFT IS ATTEMPTING TO DEFEAT LINUX BY:

    - Fud: Obviously.

    - Fraud: False claims, planted by partners like Toqueville.

    - Legal Attacks: Microsoft funded the SCO attack.

    - Patents: Future.

    - Legislation: DRM, etc.

    - Proprietary Internet Protocols: MS Multimedia formats, .Net authentication protocols, DRM.

    - Secret Hardware Protocols: Working with partners like NVidia (closed source drivers), ATI (closed source drivers), and AMD (the unpublished memory-access fix).

    - Locking-in Linux: Working with partners like NVidia and ATI (closed source drivers), possibly Trolltech (the proprietary version of Qt, Qt support for .Net), possibly CodeWeavers (promoting MS Office on Linux, and ActiveX on the Internet), possibly Xandros and a couple of other Linux distributers (proprietary Linux admin tools, Qt-only desktop environment, promoting MS Office on Linux, etc.), possibly Macromedia (Flash), and who knows who else.

    - Infiltration: MS plants joining Open Source projects to cause interference, wearing out the leaders through constant complaining, driving away other developers by acting like jerks, pushing the project in bad directions, etc.

    - Infiltration: MS plants joining Open Source projects and pretending to be die-hard supporters, then pushing for overly-tight licensing, convincing others to add special restrictions that limit the software's use (possible examples: DotGNU, XFree86), using LGPL for what should be BSD (CodeWeaver's Wine), using GPL for what should be LGPL (MySQL), and so on.

    AND JUST GENERAL DESTRUCTION...

    1. Re:Microsoft's history of dishonesty and crime by 0x0d0a · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Uh...while a lot of this is true (and some is clearly stuff that folks are justified in being suspicious of but will never, ever be able to prove), there are some awfully bizarre claims here, and plenty of speculation.

      - Fraud: False claims, planted by partners like Toqueville.

      You have no knowledge that this particular instance was instigated by Microsoft. Microsoft has *definitely* paid off "independent researchers" to come up with misleading studies in the past, but this is not in the least unusual for large companies in the technology industry, much as I hate to say it.

      - Legal Attacks: Microsoft funded the SCO attack.

      This is certainly worth looking into, but it's not as cut-and-dry as you're making out.


      - Secret Hardware Protocols: Working with partners like NVidia (closed source drivers), ATI (closed source drivers), and AMD (the unpublished memory-access fix).


      Microsoft has not, to the best of my knowledge, conducted a "secret hardware" campaign or anything of the sort. A lot of the industry is (unfortunately) secretive for competitive reasons -- that doesn't mean that Microsoft is behind it, or even actively encouraging it.

      - Locking-in Linux: Working with partners like NVidia and ATI (closed source drivers), possibly Trolltech (the proprietary version of Qt, Qt support for .Net), possibly CodeWeavers (promoting MS Office on Linux, and ActiveX on the Internet), possibly Xandros and a couple of other Linux distributers (proprietary Linux admin tools, Qt-only desktop environment, promoting MS Office on Linux, etc.), possibly Macromedia (Flash), and who knows who else.

      Absurd. This isn't even remotely plausible. You have no evidence to back this up, numerous statements to the contrary from reputable people (if you think that Miguel de Izca is lying and secretly being paid off by Microsoft for doing Mono, and that TrollTech is in bed with Microsoft (instead of the much more obvious just trying to make a buck on their products)) you're loony.

      - Infiltration: MS plants joining Open Source projects to cause interference, wearing out the leaders through constant complaining, driving away other developers by acting like jerks, pushing the project in bad directions, etc.

      Sorry. People are jerks on their own. Microsoft may do this in the future on strategically valuable projects (it's clearly a viable and legal strategy), but I doubt it.

      - Infiltration: MS plants joining Open Source projects and pretending to be die-hard supporters, then pushing for overly-tight licensing, convincing others to add special restrictions that limit the software's use (possible examples: DotGNU, XFree86), using LGPL for what should be BSD (CodeWeaver's Wine), using GPL for what should be LGPL (MySQL), and so on.

      [Laughs] If Stallman and friends, with their pro-GPL rhetoric, are Microsoft shills, they could just revise the GPL. That's absurd.

      The most egregious things that we know happened that I think I'd highlight would be:

      * Netscape's server compatibility and attacks on the client by servicing MSIE clients first. These are clear, true cases of anticompetitive behavior.

      * Microsoft deliberately monkeying around with DR-DOS compatibility in their applications.

      * Microsoft working hard to keep protocols and formats closed and avoiding third-party compatibility to promote lock-in. Not that unusual for the technology industry, sad to say. The Kerberos SMB stuff was a good example.

      * Driver signing -- the claim that it's "for security" or "reliability" is as ridiculous as the claims of DRM being "to promote end-user security against malware", and everyone involved is quite aware of the fact. It's to give Microsoft a powerful club.

      * OEM pressure. Bundling, doing Windows only, etc.

      * Using Office support as a club against Apple.

      * Microsoft attempts to make Java Windows-specific have not, as far as I know, been demostrated clearly enough for a court to decide against them, but I'd say that most folks can comfortably say that Microsoft had malicious intent.

      * Anti-GPL propaganda and misinformation. It's not as if many GPL fans don't do the same to Microsoft, mind you.

    2. Re:Microsoft's history of dishonesty and crime by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      > Just one bit of [proof] would be enough for me to not think you are some insane zealot.

      If you insist...

      Evidence of sabotage and fraud in The Sun vs Microsoft case:

      Memo to Bill Gates from the manager responsible for Microsoft's Java strategy:

      > When I met with you last, you had a lot of pretty pointed questions about Java, so I want to make sure I understand your issues/concerns....

      > 1. What is our business model for Java?

      > 2. How do we wrest control of Java away from Sun?

      > 3. How do we turn Java into just the latest, best way to write Windows applications?

      > 4. What are we doing to leverage/expose Windows to Java developers?

      Microsoft's pricing strategy paper for its VJ++ development suite:

      > The "strategic objective" of its new toolkit is to "Eliminate/contain cross-platform Java by growing the polluted Java market," "migrate and lock Java developers to Win32 Java," and ultimately to "kill cross-platform Java by grow[ing] the polluted Java market."

      Statement by a Microsoft vice president:

      > I would explicitly be different -- just to be different.... [W]ithout something to pollute Java more to Windows (show new cool features that are only in Windows) we expose ourselves to more portable code on other platforms.

      Another Microsoft memo:

      > At this point its [sic] not good to create MORE noise around our win32 java classes. Instead we should just quietly grow j++ share and assume that people will take advantage of our classes without ever realizing they are building win32-only java apps.

      Evidence of contract interference and extortion in The DOJ versus Microsoft case:

      > "Content drives browser adoption, and we need to go to the top five sites and ask them, "What can we do to get you to adopt IE?" We should be prepared to write a check, buy sites, or add features -- basically do whatever it takes to drive adoption."

      > Gates wrote, "Apple let us down on the browser by making Netscape the standard install." Gates then reported that he had already called Apple's CEO (who at the time was Gil Amelio) to ask "how we should announce the cancellation of Mac Office...."

      > In Waldman's words: Sounds like we give them the HTML control for nothing except making IE the "standard browser for Apple?" I think they should be doing this anyway. Though the language of the agreement uses the word "encourage," I think that the spirit is that Apple should be using it everywhere and if they don't do it, then we can use Office as a club.

      Evidence of intentional destruction of standard protocols in the Microsoft Halloween Document:

      > "OSS projects have been able to gain a foothold in many server applications because of the wide utility of highly commoditized, simple protocols. By extending these protocols and developing new protocols, we can deny OSS projects entry into the market."

      And so on.

      There is so much evidence that this (sabotage, fraud, and extortion) is Microsoft's normal way of operating, that the "zealot" position is anyone who attempts to claim that Microsoft is honest.

      As to what Microsoft is currently trying to do to defeat Linux, there was obviously some speculation there, which I indicated by repeated use of the word "possibly."

    3. Re:Microsoft's history of dishonesty and crime by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Also:

      MICROSOFT DEFEATS STACKER (Disk Compression) BY:

      - Fraud: Microsoft incorporates the Stacker code, even the comments. MS lawyers drag out their defense of the suit against them until Stacker is bankrupt, then settle when the company has been forced out of business.

    4. Re:Microsoft's history of dishonesty and crime by feidaykin · · Score: 5, Insightful
      This is easily one of the best posts I've ever read on Slashdot. Not only did you manage to site examples in which Microsoft has abused its monopoly position, you never once actually called them a monopoly, allowing the reader to come to that conclusion by reading the examples.

      Also, you didn't use the term "M$" and refrained from calling their employees "cockmasters" which, I must say, is somewhat of a rarity on Slashdot when discussing Microsoft. So bravo, AC. Excellent job. A lot of my Microsoft-loving acquaintances will find the URL to this post in their inbox very soon.

      --

      "To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit." -Stephen Hawking

    5. Re:Microsoft's history of dishonesty and crime by toriver · · Score: 4, Interesting

      What, no mention of Lotus 1-2-3, one of the better-known examples of Microsoft screwing with a third-party? Remember "DOS ain't done until Lotus won't run"?

      Also add the undocumented method calls in their 32-bit version of Winsock 1.1 (Win95), used by Powerpoint 4.0 and an Outlook beta, causing customers who used other vendors' Winsock implementations (read: FTP Software's) to run into trouble. Mcrosoft did release patches that removed those method calls from the afflicted programs, though, but it still counts.

  46. NT == N-Ten (== later Intel i960) by plj · · Score: 4, Informative

    You're joking, but something like year or two ago MS itself published an interview with Dave Cutler, who said that the name NT came from Intel's i960, code-named N-Ten, which was under construction at that time and was also the RISC chip that NT was originally coded for.

    After it became clear for MS that i960 would never became a generic-purpose processor it was first meant to be, and that its release would get significally delayed, MS started quickly to work with an i386 port of NT. It did not took long, as at that time they did not have much except kernel ready, and it was quick to port as Cutler had insisted portable code without excessive asm optimisations.

    (Disclaimer: everything IIRC)

    --
    “Wait for Hurd if you want something real” –Linus
  47. Obligatory "Star Wars" reference by mblase · · Score: 4, Funny

    SCO: Slashdot never told you what happened to your father.
    LINUX: They told me enough! They told me you killed him!
    SCO: No, Linux. I am your father!
    LINUX: NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

  48. The truth is.... by DrHex · · Score: 4, Insightful

    majority of corporations, which are run by people, are slow to wakeup to the realization that most of us /.ers know. In time, the truth will be self-evident, and is becoming so for more and more. As this quote says.

    "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
    Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

    I believe it's only a matter of time. It doesn't mean we're complacent, we still have to continue our efforts at debunking the FUD.

    --
    Scientia et Potentia
  49. I wish... by Xenographic · · Score: 4, Interesting
    And finally, cheers to Hemos. There five times as many links in the editorial insert than there are in the actual submission. Someone buy this man a beer.

    *Ahem* I hate to spoil that nice thought, but Hemos appears to have taken all of those links from my (rejected) submission last night, and then forgot the media transparency link on where they get their funding. The rest appear to be exactly the same ones I submitted...

    Speaking of which, here's an other good source of links to information.

    Oh, and here's my other post from Groklaw, concerning what I think they're up to by throwing out inane nonsense like this press release:


    Oddly, the word "misdirection" is all I can think of just now. For
    those who do not know, it is a fundamental principle of illusionists to
    misdirection with flashes and loud noises so that you will miss where the slight
    of hand is actually going on. By managing the attention of the crowd, focusing
    it on something noisy and exciting, one misdirects them so that they are
    surprised when the magic happens.

    It was Enderle who gave me this idea, of all people. You may remember him, for
    all his claims about "Linux terrorists" and then trying even to
    provoke Linux vs. BSD flamewars in a snotty aside at the end of one of his
    articles.

    You see, it should be obvious to anyone that this is all designed as flamebait.
    One would expect people to react vociferously, as is the nature of flamebait.
    But what is its use? For our "analysts" in the institute here, it
    means money, either in donations from the like-minded, or even hype for their
    book. Even those who hate it might be tempted to read it, simply to find out
    what they say in it.

    As for Microsoft, what do they gain from negative PR, you might ask? I suspect
    they want to make themselves out to be a victim. Oh, of course, we certainly
    won't buy it, but if voices like Enderle's prevail... well, that's another
    matter. The general public, and thus many of Microsoft's customers, probably
    won't hear about all this, but they might hear the news Microsoft helps put out,
    say on MSNBC or other channels...

    How might they become a "victim" you ask? By portraying us as
    "reactionary" (even when there may be no "us" to speak of)
    and trumping up those who come up with the crazy conspiracy theories to
    discredit those who can envision more plausible scenarios. I suspect that they
    would simply say that their funding of this group was innocent and incidental,
    then some up with some wildly inaccurate conspiracy theory from some random
    person on the internet, and use that to discredit all those who see any
    significant involvement between the two.

    Worse, if (God forbid) anyone got upset enough to do something illegal, we would
    all be maligned for it. In such a hostile environment, they may blame even
    unrelated misfortunes (such as one's server crashing, or random hardware
    failures) on unknown "hackers" ...

    So don't get distracted by patent nonsense. Refute it, yes, but always with a
    level head, knowing that there are "journalists" like Daniel Lyons of
    Forbes who will even stoop to quoting random anonymous comments off the internet
    to make it look as though everyone with a differing opinion is a moron, while
    SCO has invented fake protesters with fake signs claiming to support communism,
    among other things.

    So remember, they're not trying to convince us of anything. They're trying to
    convince those who know little about these issues and who haven't taken sides
    yet.
  50. Born in a Whore House by thales · · Score: 4, Funny

    "I was reffereing to the fact that Paul Allen and Bill Gates started Microsoft porting Basic interpreters from a "borrowed" open source base."

    Why stop at that? Where Micro-Soft's original corporate home was is very intresting. The Sundowner Motel in Albuquerque. The Sundowner was a seedy little Motel that was widely used by drug dealers and Hookers for their business.

    Microsoft was born in a Whore House! Dosen't that explain their Business ethics?

    --
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est
  51. Right-wing nutcases by kitzilla · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I think we should all be careful about repeating the "fact" that Microsoft is a past donor to the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution. I've yet to find a primary reference to this relationship, which seems to exist primarily in the Open Source press. Of course, if anyone has a better reference, such as a financial statement ...

    But we really don't need a Microsoft link to demonstrate the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution's grotesque ideological bias. While the think-tank positions itself as an independent, libertarian research group designed to "study, promote, and extend the principles of classical liberalism: political equality, civil liberty, and economic freedom," they function, more often than not, as a shill for Big Business and the far political right.

    AdTI is a fellow-traveler of neoconservative think tanks such as the Heritage Foundation and shadowy groups like the "Defenders of Property Rights," with whom they are aligned as part of an anti-Clean Air Act hit squad ironically misnamed the Cooler Heads Coalition. These are the folks who have been grinding out the industrialist propaganda which has allowed the Bush Administration to roll back environmental laws a couple of decades.

    The Alexis de Tocqueville Institute can always be counted upon for a convenient white paper discounting the risks of tobacco smoking or in favor of vastly expensive weapons programs of dubious utility.

    It's tough to source the funding of private institutes, but the folks at Media Transparency have taken a stab at AdTI. Big sugar daddies include the Bradley Foundation, which gives away millions each year to attack social programs and support the privatization of government services. There's also the John M. Olin Foundation, which has lavishly funded a host of robber baron nonprofits over the years.

    So it's no surprise that the Alexis de Tocqueville Institiute -- which seems to exist to provide a moral compass for the richest and most powerful interests in the West -- should be seen to carry water for anti-Open Source reactionaries. What's bad for big business must be bad for the nation. Linux must be discredited before it causes more distress for the market planners at Microsoft.

    The only freedom being defended by groups like AdTI is the feedom to buy what the Establishment is selling. And at a price they decide.

    --
    This is my post. There are many others like it. If you don't like what you read here, go try one of the others.
  52. Turnabout by ccarr.com · · Score: 4, Interesting
    One of the most effective ways of countering FUD is to ask whether the arguments raised cannot be applied with equal or greater force to proprietary software. For example:
    Gates claim to "invent" Windows probably false, says new study

    Popular but controversial "proprietary" computer software, often developed on a salaried basis, is often taken or adapted without permission from material owned by other companies and individuals, our study finds. Among other points, the study directly challenges Bill Gates' claim to be the inventor of Windows. In one of the few extensive studies on the source of proprietary code, our reporter traces the proprietary software movement over three decades -- from its romantic but questionable beginnings, through its evolution to a commercial effort that draws on paid contributions from thousands of programmers. Our reporter's account is based on extensive interviews with more than two dozen leading technologists.

    "The report," according to some fellow, "raises important questions that all developers and users of proprietary code must face. While you cannot group all proprietary vendors and programs together; many are rigorous and respectful of the intellectual property rights, while others speak of intellectual property rights with open contempt."

    Our reporter suggests the invention of Mac OS is an integral part of the Windows story commenting, "It is clear that people's exceptional interest in the Macintosh operating system made Mac OS one of the most licensed, imitated, and stolen products in the history of computer science." Our reporter writes, "Over the years, many have envied the startling and pervasive success of Mac OS. For over twenty years, programmers have tried and failed to successfully build a Mac-like system and couldn't. To this day, we have a serious attribution problem in software development because people have chosen to scrupulously borrow or imitate Macintosh."

    Our reporter's study is part a book he is writing on proprietary software and operating systems.
    --
    I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve. BB
  53. Linus has weighed in on this by jg21 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I can't begin to do it justice (Groklaw is already linking to it). Enjoy!! (I will reveal in advance only that Torvalds "comes clean" about a lifetime of deception...)

  54. Extremely desperate by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Someone else posted a long long list of all the things MS has done to kill competition. You might note something intresting. The list against linux is almost as long as the list against everyone else. And linux is still there. Not only that it is growing and all its old enemies are backing it. Or do you really think IBM wouldn't like to knock MS down a bit. Or novell or Correl(wordperfect) and many others.

    So MS is scared shitless. It knows it has many enemies but believed it had them under control. Linux is removing that control. Linux is turning up in the strangest places. Sony has now several real products on the market with linux inside, not some tiny upstart company hoping to sell a few thousand products world wide but Sony the giant who makes nearly everything. This is not good if you are MS and want the world to think Computers == Windows.

    The more linux is out there the more OS might become like diesel vs gas vs petrol. A choice based on your needs. MS doesn't want you to have a choice. People with choice might expect all kind of weird things. Performance. Reliabilty. Security.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

  55. My take. by bgeer · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I'm seeing a lot of theories about the motivations behind this press release--that they want to smear Linus personally, that they are trying to provoke a response, and so on. I think it's much less ambitious than that, but I also think they were successful at their goal. Let's look at the very first paragraph:

    "Popular but controversial 'open source' computer software, generally contributed on a volunteer basis, is often taken or adapted from material owned by other companies and individuals, a study by the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution finds."

    I think the whole point of this was to get out the adjective "but controversial". The adjective was repeated verbatim in the Yahoo article without a quote attribution. That means that everyone who read it on Yahoo thinks that the reporter is making that characterization.

    I think MS has a new strategy, one borrowed from the Bush administration: In the run-up to the Iraq war Bush and his cronies would answer every question about Iraq using the words 'war on terrorism' and 'september 11th'. Even though they never once claimed that Iraq was involved in 9-11, just from word association 53% of Americans believe Hussein was personally involved in it and 44% believe that most or some of the hijackers were Iraqis.

    I think MS wants to put this word-association strategy to work for itself. By getting attack dog think-tanks to put out press releases connecting Linux with words like 'controversial' or 'unscrupulous' in the first paragraph, MS would be able to damage Linux's credibility without having to put forth an actual argument. If they can get their blurbs read often enough, it might even stick.

  56. open contempt... by dajak · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Quote from this publication:

    "many are rigorous and respectful of the intellectual property rights, while others speak of intellectual property rights with open contempt."

    Since when is speaking with contempt of something wrong? Does that make you a "software pirate"? Let's see how these guys define "intellectual property" in a previous publication about intellectual property theft linked by Slashdot:

    "Today, intellectual property is not just patents, copyrights and trademarks, it is processes, techniques, methodology and talent; described by many experts as intellectual capital."

    This apparently means that:
    1. My talents are the property of my employer because the value of my talents is part of the capital valuation of the company on the market. If I leave that constitutes intellectual property theft.
    2. If intangible capital valuation on the market decreases because someone else is doing the same things better or cheaper than you that constitutes intellectual property theft (instead of competition).

    I do not know what they are trying to promote, but it surely is not freedom or competition. This conception of intellectual property is based on a fundamental misconception of the value of knowledge. It is also a great threat to freedom and world peace.

  57. The World According To AdTI by pandrijeczko · · Score: 4, Insightful
    In a world of Open Source ideologies, Henry Ford makes a car with 4 circular wheels and 100 years later, we're all driving cars with 4 circular wheels.

    In a close sourced patented world of the AdTI's making, Henry Ford makes a car with 4 circular wheels and 100 years later, we're arguing about whether the car should have 3 or 5 square wheels.

    Unix is a 30-year-old idea because Unix is a 30-year-old good idea... enough said.

    --
    Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.