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Rare Working On The Nintendo DS

Posted by Hemos on from the looking-forward-to-it dept.

Sean O'Neill writes "Ken Lobb mentioned to a GCAdvanced writer that Rare is already working on titles for the Nintendo DS. "After him mentioning that, I began to speak to him about the Nintendo DS. He loves the DS and confirmed with me that Rare does have DS development kits and that two titles are in the works for the DS."

74 comments

  1. Conker by wheresdrew · · Score: 5, Funny
    I shudder to think how they'd use the touch-screen capability or voice input in a Conker title.

    (Then again, I'm curious to see how twisted they'd get with those....)

    1. Re:Conker by Pxtl · · Score: 4, Interesting

      While I enjoyed Conker, the game helped me recognise something about Rare: I don't really enjoy their games. While often clever and interesting, I think they often turn out to be not really very much fun.

      Conker is a neat game on the surface, but the problems gradually chased me away: it pushed the hardware too hard, making the game choppy and ugly (a problem that all the Rare games seem to suffer from). It was just plain ugly (again, common Rare problem) and the gameplay was painfully frustrating and often very slow. Slightly convoluted controls, slightly sticky view angles, other frustrating, clumsy little features. Thinking back to Diddy Kong racing and Golden Eye, I see the same problems.

      Of course, ymmv - I personally find the continued popularity of Goldeneye utterly perplexing for what I find to be a mediocre - if groundbreaking - FPS. Dreamcast's Outtrigger stilll stands out to me as the best console FPS ever. Goldeneye is frustratingly painful in comparison. To me Goldeneye is the Wolfenstein of the console FPS world - yeah, it was the first, but I never want to touch it again.

      Now lets be realistic - Rare's games are only really popular because of their groundbreaking natures and their hype. Donkey Kong Country (a very hyped game) for being the first large-scale rendered-graphics platformer, Diddy Racing (another hyped game) for being an adventure-kart hybrid, and Goldeneye for being the first console FPS. That, and they're always frustrating, and always very very long.

      Of course, this is the perfect element for making games *memorable* - they break new ground, so people pick them up. They take forever, so the players pour lots of time into them. Also, they're frustrating, so the players really get emotionally involved in trying to succeed. This makes the games get carved into the mass psyche of players. I've gotten lost in many Rare titles. The games are such that your life gets sucked into them, so of course you become attached. No wonder everyone loves them so much.

      But the fact I think about when I think back to them is: did I actually *enjoy* playing them? All too often, the answer is, well, no. They were more of a habit and a task, with small rewards to keep me going. But rarely actually fun. Sure, they have their moments, but they tend to be short and fleeting rewards for endless perseverance.

      Other players may have different opinions, but I've come to mine, and I'm happy with it. Microsoft can have them.

    2. Re:Conker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      slightly sticky view angles, other frustrating, clumsy little features. Thinking back to Diddy Kong racing and Golden Eye, I see the same problems.

      Um... Goldeneye is a FPS. If you experienced bad view angles in it, then maybe you had a bunk controller.

    3. Re:Conker by Mattintosh · · Score: 1

      I see your point here, but there is a Rare game I can think of that didn't fit that category. And that game would be Goldeneye. Now, I have several N64-era Rare games in my collection. Blast Corps, Goldeneye, Jet Force Gemini, Perfect Dark, yadda yadda yadda. Of them, only Goldeneye avoided the exact problems you speak of.

      Thinking back, every Rare game I can remember had these exact problems. N.A.R.C., Cobra Triangle, RC Pro Am, Cabal, Time Lord, Donkey Kong Country, DKC2, DKC3, Killer Instinct, KI2... Then I look back at the list and realize that none of these games are classics without Nintendo's marketing department.

      When did it start? Remember getting that jungle-printed videotape in the mail back in '94? If you remember it, you subscribed to Nintendo Power, the *only* official source of marketing and speculative brainwashing straight from the Pros!

      I have no fuzzy feelings for Rare. THEY DESTROYED MY CHILDHOOD. :)

    4. Re:Conker by DeadScreenSky · · Score: 1

      N.A.R.C., Cobra Triangle, RC Pro Am, Cabal, Time Lord, Donkey Kong Country, DKC2, DKC3, Killer Instinct, KI2..

      A large segment of those games aren't even really Rare games - merely ports of arcade games they did for the NES. (Example: I wonder why Midway is putting out that new NARC game, and not Nintendo?) Games like Cabal are classic because they were great arcade games - Nintendo had nothing to do with that.

      --
      There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion. -- Francis Bacon
    5. Re:Conker by DeadScreenSky · · Score: 1

      Dreamcast's Outtrigger stilll stands out to me as the best console FPS ever.

      Wow. Never thought I would see the day when someone admitted they like Outtrigger. Do any AM2 guys even admit that?

      Not to be nasty, but after that comment I wasn't surprised you find Rare's best games to not be fun. Or suggesting that Conker was ugly (I do admit a higher framerate would have been nice, but that was a problem in every N64 game save F-Zero, IMO). You have rarified (ha ha), if not unique, tastes in gaming...

      --
      There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion. -- Francis Bacon
    6. Re:Conker by SilentChris · · Score: 1

      "Microsoft can have them."

      Microsoft can have them? What, do you work for Nintendo? Most gamers I know have at least 2 consoles (if not all 3 from this generation). I'll play Rare games no matter what the platform.

  2. Microsoft Handheld by Aelfy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Rare are owned by Microsoft. Does this pretty much confirm that Microsoft are not considering entering the handheld market with their own console?

    I'd like to know if they (or other MS studios) are also working on PSP games. It could be significant if they are supporting Nintendo only. Tactical?

    1. Re:Microsoft Handheld by fireduck · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The weird thing about the MS purchase of Rare: Their first-post buyout game was released for the GBA. In fact, on their release schedule since 2003, they have more games for the GBA than they do X-BOX (4 nintendo games to 3 xbox games).

      Given how slowly Rare release titles, MS must be in this for the long haul (it was a $375 million purchase), as it'll take years before Rare even comes close to selling that much product. particularly if they've got a significant portion of their workforce developing Nintendo handheld games...

    2. Re:Microsoft Handheld by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think MS just don't see handhelds as Xbox (or Windows PC) competitors. So there's no conflict in releasing titles for the GBA or DS.

      And there is an awful lot of money to be made in that market, which, let us recall, is something Microsoft is quite fond of. I don't really see it as all that surprising.

    3. Re:Microsoft Handheld by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Microsoft has a long history of possessing developer's licenses for competitor's platforms, as well as providing licenses to competitors for their platforms.

      I think it makes sense. Licensed developers of any given platform are usually the first to hear about developments that are going to surface in the near future, and developers can use this information any way they please (as long as they don't release this info to uninvolved parties).

      As a couple of examples, Microsoft is or has been a licensee for both Apple (Macintosh) and Nintendo (GameBoy). Rare, as a wholly-owned subsidiary of Microsoft, would most likely be bound by separate licensing agreements than Microsoft, but I'm sure that even if Microsoft directed each and every one of Rare's moves (which I expect is the case), Microsoft still would have green-lighted any Nintendo DS projects. After all, any Banjo game that appeals to kids on the Nintendo DS is sure to be good advertising for the Banjo games that will be exclusive for the Xbox's successor.

      I should also note that it's probably not wise to use this as proof that Microsoft isn't thinking about entering the portable market. Every slashdotter should know by now that MS always has their eyes open and focused at everything under the sun, for all that this implies. *COUGH*sauron*AHEM

    4. Re:Microsoft Handheld by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about all these Windoze CE/Pocket PC handhelds? There are games for those platforms, so you can bet managers from the respective M$ divisions demading Master Bill to fire Rare programmers for 'collaborating with the enemy'.

  3. Golden-Eye, please? by Hackie_Chan · · Score: 4, Informative

    I'd kill to play Golden-Eye on Gameboy DS. I mean, seriously. 4+ players duking it out? That'd be friggin' amazing.

    --

    What's so bad about being lazy? What if there was a war and nobody showed up?
    1. Re:Golden-Eye, please? by Thwomp · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This would certainly be a deal breaker for me but where do Rare stand? Can they release the game again, would there be issues with the Bond license and EA?

      I would love to see a DS version though.

    2. Re:Golden-Eye, please? by Eluding+Reality · · Score: 4, Interesting

      4+ is not even a major limit, considering that the DS supports 16 players locally (and who knows how many via wi-fi) and there are no limitations on screens and processing power as each unit handles its own
      The major limitations would be the number of characters each DS can display on screen at each time and the practical number you can have on each map without it being unplayable
      All in all it would be far better than the original multiplayer and thats saying something!

    3. Re:Golden-Eye, please? by Apreche · · Score: 1

      It supports 16 via wi-fi in a 100ft radius. I don't even think the thing HAS a cable connection. It does play gameboy games though so I hope it has a connection for playing gameboy link cable games like advance wars and connecting to the cube to play FF:CC.
      Goldeneye would be a good idea, but I think bomberman would be a better one.

      --
      The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
    4. Re:Golden-Eye, please? by one4nine4two · · Score: 1

      Only if Nintendo decides to use its friggin' head for once and put some X and Y buttons on there. You can strafe with L and R but all we have for action buttons are A and B, which would cover Attack1 and Use. What about reloading and changing weapons? At least Goldeneye had some auto-aiming or you'd need dual, uh... pads. Don't get me wrong. It would definitely kick much ass, just not with the current DS spec. Damn it Nintendo. Stop shooting yourself in the foot.

    5. Re:Golden-Eye, please? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Try to keep up. The DS has X and Y buttons. We're all making fun of the PSP's battery life now.

    6. Re:Golden-Eye, please? by KDR_11k · · Score: 2, Informative

      The example Metroid Prime: Hunters demonstrates clearly how FPS games are meant to be played on the DS.

      You use the dpad or buttons for movement. All aiming, weapon switching and other stuff is done with the touchscreen. Aiming is point & click, for most other things (like switch to morph ball) you have icons on your HUD which you touch to activate.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    7. Re:Golden-Eye, please? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm telling you, brother, this is too much to keep up with. I haven't even gotten the hang of Ngage bashing yet; I think I'll have to build my way up to that.

      I'm still making fun of the original American Xbox controller! "The Duke"....ah-hahaha! Oh man, good times.

    8. Re:Golden-Eye, please? by squall14716 · · Score: 1

      Wi-Fi is not a 100 ft. radius. You can use Wi-Fi to play over the net. It uses a different wireless connection to allow people within 100 ft. to play (which supports 16 people).

    9. Re:Golden-Eye, please? by thebosz · · Score: 1
      Hmm... my post isn't showing up. Maybe I forgot to hit submit? Anyway, this is what I said:

      You pose an interesting question, but an easy answer would be no. Rare lost the James Bond license to EA after GoldenEye was completed (which is why Perfect Dark wasn't a Bond game). It would be much more likely to see a Perfect Dark game on the DS, because Rare owns the IP for it.

      Hmm.... that would be awesome! :)

      --
      The Kerr Divine: My wife's battle with a mysterious illness.
  4. Not just DS titles, either by iainl · · Score: 3, Insightful

    According to this month's Edge, Diddy Kong Pilot for the GBA has been resurrected post Nintendo-split as Banjo Pilot.

    So its definitely looking like we're on target to see more Rare releases on Nintendo hardware this year than we are Microsoft (with GBA Sabre Wulf already on shelves). Oops.

    --
    "I Know You Are But What Am I?"
  5. Perfect Dark: DS by BigDork1001 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    No more than a few days ago I had a nice little discussion about PD:DS. It sure would be nice to see this come true.

    To this day I still play Perfect Dark quite a bit. It's about the only N64 game my friends and I still play. One thing the GC lacks is a good multi-player shooter. The EA shooters just aren't as good as what Rare has made in the past. EA has really butchered the Bond games, Golden Eye is by far the best Bond shooter.

    --
    "Armed forces abroad are of little value unless there is prudent counsel at home" - Cicero
    1. Re:Perfect Dark: DS by Eluding+Reality · · Score: 1

      Not played PD in a while so can't remember the exact name of it, but how perfectly suited is the floating spy camera thing from PD to the DS!
      From what I remember it was only really useful in one or two levels, but if they made it available in all levels it could alter the gameplay completely

    2. Re:Perfect Dark: DS by TechniMyoko · · Score: 1

      (Probably with me) Yeah, god I hope this means Perfect Dark DS

    3. Re:Perfect Dark: DS by BigDork1001 · · Score: 1
      Yep, it was with with ya. :). And yep, PD:DS would be great.

      --
      "Armed forces abroad are of little value unless there is prudent counsel at home" - Cicero
  6. Plasticky by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Is it just me or am I the only one not sold on the whole 2 screen thing? and The product pictures I have seen look really plasticky

    nick...

    1. Re:Plasticky by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not sold on it either. I really don't see how it's a big shift to now have 2 screens (VS say the extra wide screen of the PSP-At least with an extra wide screen, you can view movies in their original theatre screen ratios).

      I can see it now that most developers will just put the gameplay on one screen, and the stats, maps, score etc on the other. Big deal.

      And as for the touchscreen capabilities (are both screens touchscreens?) Again, that's great for PDA like uses, but if your playing an action game, holding the device in 2 hands, there's no easy way to then use the touchscreen capabilities...

    2. Re:Plasticky by Naffer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You know, originally I thought that the PSP was the most awesome handheald ever for being able to play movies.
      Then it occured to me, the UMD is not going to be a writable media and any movie you're going to play on it is going to be purchased. That means I don't get to toss my divx movies onto my handheld and watch them while waiting in the dentist office. The PSP won't be the new walkman without a harddrive or writable media, maybe the new gameboy, but not the walkman.

    3. Re:Plasticky by buffer-overflowed · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The touchscreen is center mounted between the controls, so it could be programmed to be a customizeable control pad. Supposedly it has little subtley raised bumps on it so you can work it by feel.

      Of course that means you'll have to muck it up with finger prints, but that's not too big of a deal.

      The interface to Metroid Prime: Hunters (DS) is as follows. You can use either the D-Pad + L button for some basic control and then touchscreen/stylus to complement or rather than using the D-Pad you can use XYAB/R for the same thing.

      The control has been thought through. Trust Nintendo, you have reason to.

      --
      The key to the enjoyment of pop music is to replace any instance of "love" with "C.H.U.D."
    4. Re:Plasticky by raygundan · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The device you're looking for is the tapwave zodiac. If you haven't already heard of it, it's a PalmOS device designed for gaming-- layout similar to the PSP, available now, 480x320 screen. I'd give it a little longer if you want it for movies-- SD cards will only get cheaper. I'm oh-so-tempted, but I think I'll wait for SD prices to come down a bit more.

    5. Re:Plasticky by schapman · · Score: 1

      the only problem is, with flash media (SD cards I have), I've been running into problems where I can't stream data off the card fast enough for my palm to play it. I have a zire 71, and tried to give it a fullscreen divx (320x320) to play, and all mmplayer could do was give me errors about transfer speed off the sd card. So I think UMD could be good.... if they make cheap writers for it :)

      --
      Wouldnt you like to be a pepper too?
    6. Re:Plasticky by NanoGator · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Is it just me or am I the only one not sold on the whole 2 screen thing? and The product pictures I have seen look really plasticky"

      You don't like having an extra PocketPC'esque dedicated touch screen for interface doodads, on-line chat, etc? Sorry to be blunt, but I think it is just you. Try imagining taking the PSP on-line and tell me you wouldn't miss that screen.

      Can't comment on the 'plasticy' bit, though, other than Nintendo's stated that the design's still being worked on. The basic design is the same, but like they don't have room for a stylus yet.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    7. Re:Plasticky by TechniMyoko · · Score: 1

      UMDs are writeable, butSony has no plans to release a PSP capable of writing to them

    8. Re:Plasticky by TechniMyoko · · Score: 1

      The screen does not have any raised bumps

    9. Re:Plasticky by TechniMyoko · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Think about it, raised bumps would get in the way of using the stylus.

    10. Re:Plasticky by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      How are UMDs writeable? For one thing, they're a non-standard shape, they don't fit into any hardware you can buy at the store.

    11. Re:Plasticky by quecojones · · Score: 1

      Well, AFAIK, they've said that you won't be able to write to the disks in the PSP, but they haven't mentioned whether or not it will play disks that were written to on another system (like maybe a computer). Remember that Sony intends to push this as the new century's floppy standard or something so I'm sure there will be writable UMDs for PCs and such.

      Another cool thing is the no region coding thing (for games at least; obviously they'd have to do it for the movies).

      --
      "PROFANITY is the inevitable literary crutch of the inarticulate MOTHER FUCKER." -- some PC user
  7. Timesplitters 2? by metroid+composite · · Score: 1
    One thing the GC lacks is a good multi-player shooter.

    Haven't played it myself, though watched it in action and it looks very fast-paced. At any rate, it's made by the same team that made Goldeneye, and seems to be highly regarded by those who played it.

    1. Re:Timesplitters 2? by thebosz · · Score: 1
      I absolutely love Perfect Dark (but I don't really like GoldenEye, go figure). I was rather dissappointed by the Rare buyout because that would mean no PD for my favorite console, the Cube. But when I heard that Timesplitters 2 was being made by a lot of the key people behind GoldenEye and PD and that it was coming to the GameCube, I got really excited again.

      After getting and playing TS2, I can compare it with Perfect Dark. One of the things that I liked most about PD is the menu set up. Very intuitive and easy to use. TS2 is a little harder to get used to because it's in a "cascading menu" style (first pick type of game, then arena, etc.). But, TS2 comes very close to Perfect Dark in game play. The multiplayer is fast and furious, even with 16 bots at once (which is nice, since PD crawled with only 6 bots and two players). There are plenty of goodies to unlock and it's really good fun with a bunch of friends. It's pretty cheap now-a-days, so go pick it up.

      --
      The Kerr Divine: My wife's battle with a mysterious illness.
  8. Rare too much like Nintendo by pudge_lightyear · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Could it be that Microsoft is realizing that Rare is just too much like Nintendo (family friendly, quality over bottom line, etc.)???... or that it was really Nintendo that made Rare strong? Remember that some of their best games were Nintendo properties. It could be that Rare is better at bringing the ideas of others to life than bringing the ideas themselves.

    Perhaps this is just Microsoft making the most out of a potentially failing investment... perhaps Nintendo knew that Rare's image would be hard to re-shape... and knew getting rid of them would kill Rare... perhaps I'm just rambling.

    --

    Certainly every man at his best state is but vapor
  9. This is news? by metroid+composite · · Score: 1, Interesting
    First, Rare already had liscence to work with GBA titles, and given that 100 companies have received DS kits, it's not surprising that they got one too.

    Second, why is Rare news and not a bigger developer like Square-Enix, or Konami? It is widely known that the talented development team left Rare several years ago (hence talk of "the Goldeneye team" making games for various non-Rare studios). Look at the big console games Rare released this generation; Star Fox Adventures and Grabbed by the Ghoulies. Two poorly-regarded titles total (one of which was a pushed back N64 title IIRC) from a developer who used to pump out a title every few months (10 N64 games from 1997 to 2000, and the N64 was much harder to program...).

    1. Re:This is news? by buffer-overflowed · · Score: 5, Informative

      Square-Enix is doing 3+ DS titles and 1 token PSP title.

      Konami is still TBA/TBD for the DS and is doing 1+ PSP title last I heard.

      And yes, who cares about Rare? The only property I think they own is Conker(who has had one good game thus far), and it looks like they're wasting that by doing a mindless shooter. Nintendo retains the PD property, the Donkey Kong property, and pretty much every other bit of IP that rare used to make good games.

      --
      The key to the enjoyment of pop music is to replace any instance of "love" with "C.H.U.D."
    2. Re:This is news? by chrismcdirty · · Score: 1

      I believe that Rare retained the PD property. They also own Banjo Kazooie.

      I, personally, believe that, aside from Blast Corps, Goldeneye, and Conker weren't very impressive. I had no fun at all with Diddy Kong Racing or DK64. Perfect Dark was not as fun, or pleasing as Goldeneye. So much slowdown with an explosion, it reminded me of NES days.

      Overall, much too long of a wait for a lot of unimpressive and a few great games.

      --
      It's like sex, except I'm having it!
    3. Re:This is news? by jx100 · · Score: 1

      I think it just may be the fact that Rare is now Microsoft property and that they're still actively developing for Nintendo despite that.

    4. Re:This is news? by G-funk · · Score: 1

      Who really cares about the licenses anyway? I think NOLF is proof you don't need to pay for the bond rights to make a kick-ass bond style game.

      --
      Send lawyers, guns, and money!
    5. Re:This is news? by DeadScreenSky · · Score: 1

      It is widely known that the talented development team left Rare several years ago (hence talk of "the Goldeneye team" making games for various non-Rare studios).

      Do any of you anti-Rare trolls realize how big Rare is? Three people from the Goldeneye team (only one being a major creator of it) creating Free Radical does not equal the only talented people at Rare...

      --
      There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion. -- Francis Bacon
  10. Check out this picture! by LordJezo · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    The DS is nothing new!

    1. Re:Check out this picture! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your link = no worky.

    2. Re:Check out this picture! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Copy and paste it to a new tab in your browser so that there's no referrer sent.

    3. Re:Check out this picture! by KDR_11k · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What's the problem with that? If someone else designed that G&W, that might mean something, but it's a design by Nintendo. People don't complain about the Gamecube being built in a 4 controller, 2-memory cards, top loading drive standard fashion, why complain about the layout of the DS?

      The G&W didn't use the screens in the same way the DS does, the G&W's screens were just extensions of the playing field and essentially one big screen split up for cost and portability reasons, for the DS one screen is a touchscreen and since they're real screens, not those pre-printed LCD screens, they can be used for many different things.

      Also, part of the innovation in the DS are the new means of control, which cleary weren't present on the Game and Watch series.

      Well, if you think it's bad the device has roughly the same shape as a really old machine that's not even close to the same ballpark, how would you have designed the sysem instead? Make the top part smaller for no apparent reason, or what?

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
  11. No thread... by tprime · · Score: 1

    Basically all this is showing is that Microsoft does not view any strength on Nintendo's part as a thread. I would be VERY surprised to see any Rare game ever being released again for the PS2 or especially the PSP.

    It would be in Microsoft's best interests to help Nindendo get stronger on the handheld front so that Sony does not get stronger. April was the first month EVER that xbox sales exceeded PS2 sales. If MS is catching them on the console front, they certainly don't want Sony to earn revenue on another.

    --
    http://www.tomandemily.com
    1. Re:No thread... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nintendo is Microsoft's Apple Computer for consoles. A niche player they're keeping afloat in order to monopolize the rest of the market without complainers. (Don't like it? Buy a Mac/Nintendo.)

      I am a little surprised Microsoft declined to compete in the handheld market but I suppose it figured a failure there would jeapordize the console business. Undoubtably it would have been an ARM/Xscale chip from Intel using maybe Nvidia's new mobile GPU and run a light version of PocketPC (WinCE).

    2. Re:No thread... by KDR_11k · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The flaw in this logic is that Nintendo is about even with Microsoft in the home console business. MS might be pretending that their only enemy is Sony and loves to forget about Nintendo, but they are down to Earth enough to know that they can't do jack about Sony and are struggling to surpass Nintendo. The only one who can apply monopoly tactics in this market is Sony, MS is just a "niche player", as you put it, their quasi-monopoly on operating systems and office software doesn't mean anything in the console market, except that they can survive bigger losses than their competitors.

      I think Microsoft looked at the bottom line of their entertainment division and decided that it should turn in profits or at least smaller losses before joining the handheld market and having two different products to support (and, if their behaviour in the console market is any indication, lose lots of dollars on).

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    3. Re:No thread... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      First off, read my post above. (link)

      I think you and tprime fall into the common error of overestimating Microsoft's strength in one market because of both their size and their performance in an unrelated market. Yeah, I know, what else is new, but to think that Microsoft has a strong hand on Nintendo in any way (and that the hand is supporting Nintendo as opposed to trying to fight them off) is quite distant from reality.

      The situation is simple, and there seem to be no cunning undertones to Rare's support of Nintendo platforms, other than perhaps Microsoft's long-standing modus operandi of being the first to hear about the competition's movements by way of their licensed developer status. But even that has nothing to do with "propping up" the competition. Particularly when Microsoft's HE division hasn't had a single profitable quarter, while Nintendo has had, what, one unprofitable quarter in their entire history of producing games and game-related products (which has been Nintendo's entire reason for existence since 1889).

  12. Microsoft's Rumored Handheld by sabNetwork · · Score: 1

    This means that the rumored Microsoft handheld device that plugs into the Xbox 2 is either bullshit or doesn't share any features with the Nintendo DS.

    Remeber that little thing about Rare being bought by Microsoft? ;)

    --

    1. Re:Microsoft's Rumored Handheld by devnull17 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Possibly. Or it means that said rumored handheld isn't expected to make it to market any time near the release of the DS or the titles that Rare's developing.

      Personally, I find the prospect of a Microsoft-designed handheld to be a little scary, considering what the original XBox controller looked like.

  13. Re:No threat... by tprime · · Score: 1

    I meant to say THREAT, not thread. I simply just lack the ability to read my own typing.

    --
    http://www.tomandemily.com
  14. VB by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "The control has been thought through. Trust Nintendo, you have reason to."

    Uhh, Nintendo isn't God you know. Have you heard of this device called the Virtual Boy? What about the Power Glove? Ever heard of the Super Scope? Maybe the 64DD? Or for that matter have you ever compared the GameCube's control pad to the N64's or the SNES's?

    Nintendo makes great games, but on the hardware design, it's not always a success. Keep in mind they no longer have Gumpei.

    1. Re:VB by buffer-overflowed · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Virtual Boy control wasn't bad. Most Nintendo controllers haven't been bad.

      The only ones that really were bad were the IR controllers(which all sucked) and the Powerglove(which worked ok with precisely ONE game, which was pretty much standard for peripherals[super scope, powerpad, etc.]).

      As to system control, well, I haven't seen a bad one yet. Gameboy, NES, Virtual Boy, SNES, Gameboy Advance, N64, GCN. All of the included controls have been useable.

      --
      The key to the enjoyment of pop music is to replace any instance of "love" with "C.H.U.D."
    2. Re:VB by TechniMyoko · · Score: 1

      I hate cubes controller. The dpad is too small, the bean buttons are stupid (go with 4 circles in a diamond formation like the snes) the cstick is crap, it shouldve been the same as the other analog stick, and neither stick is clickable. There shouldve been something equivalent to the Z button on the left side, and the shoulder buttons shouldnt have that lip at the top preventing you from having your finger on Z and the shoulder at the same time. I think I've covered every thing on the cubes controller.

    3. Re:VB by buffer-overflowed · · Score: 1

      Really? I love the cube controller, it's the most comfortable and easy to pick up and use controller out. Plus the wavebird is awesome.

      Can't get near the efficency out of it as you can with a dual-shock or S controller, but it's very simple to just pick up and play.

      The c-stick works great for what it's meant to be used for, camera control, I almost never touch the d-pad, and I haven't noticed a problem with hitting anything. Everything seems pretty well-laid out to me. Heck I can toss a cube controller to anyone(even non-gamers) and they can normally just go right into playing. That says good design to me.

      You may dislike it, but do you really think it's a BAD controller? Like old IR controller bad?

      --
      The key to the enjoyment of pop music is to replace any instance of "love" with "C.H.U.D."
    4. Re:VB by TechniMyoko · · Score: 1

      I don't think it's that bad, it's just not good. The shape of the controller itself is fine (same as a dualshock) as for non-gamers picking up a controller, they can do that with any controller. I play halo (xbox) and mario kart (cube) with my dad he doesn't care what controller he's on. As for Dual shock, I don't have multiplayer games for PSX, just RPGs. Lot's of RPGs.

    5. Re:VB by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Never had a Power Glove, eh? A MATTEL Power Glove?

      Yeah, it was pretty lame. And it wasn't from Nintendo. Next thing you'll be sticking a middle finger in Nintendo's face for the U-Force. Please bring a camera if you ever do, I'd like to see pictures of that.

      And nobody fucks with the Super Scope. It was great, it just needed more software support than it was given, otherwise it was useless and therefore subject to insults who never had the pleasure of using it.

      BTW, if there's anything I hate about Nintendo's controls over the years, it's one thing: the puny d-pad on every system after the N64, from the GameBoy Pocket to the GameCube. Thank God the Nintendo DS has a larger pad, which one can hope will become the renewed standard on all future Nintendo systems that feature d-pads.

    6. Re:VB by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      D-pad, I agree. Looks like that's changed w/Nintendo DS.

      Bean buttons: I only partially agree. They are great for differentiating between each other in on-screen control guides and in printed instructions, and they feel really good for third-person games like Zelda and Mario. But chording the buttons is a little more difficult than on a SNES pad, N64 pad, or Playstation pad.

      Clickable analog sticks: I hate them. If you have clickable sticks, you have to provide a dead zone around the stick so that clicks don't allow the stick to register lateral movement. And dead zones are counter-productive to the whole reason of using analog sticks. If every analog stick on every game controller for the current systems were like the left analog stick on the GameCube controller, I'd like other controllers a lot better. The ribbed top, solid-feeling stick, and slightly-notched base are all great design points.

      left Z button equivalent: The right Z button itself is already a compromise. Initial controller prototypes didn't even include it, but developers asked for a digital shoulder button to use in addition to the dual-mode triggers that the GameCube has. So, Nintendo provided it - but they didn't stick one on the left, because (as I see it) such digital shoulder buttons weren't a design goal in the first place, and having a pair of digital shoulder buttons would have called the placement of the triggers into question among people who might hold the controller wrong (with index fingers on the digital buttons and middle fingers on the triggers, for example).

      All in all, I like the GameCube controller very much. It has slight flaws, but I'd much rather hold it for long periods of time than a Dual Shock 2, especially when using the analog sticks (which are very poorly placed, like the afterthoughts that they were, on the Dual Shock 2).

    7. Re:VB by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I find the dual shock 2 to be perfect. The clickable analog sticks dont have a dead zone, and they work perfectly in every game that uses them. As for not putting 2 Z buttons, just cause the first one wasn't supposed to be there doesn't give them an excuse not to do it right. Those bean buttons are plain stupid.

    8. Re:VB by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The analog sticks on all of Sony's analog pads (analog, Dual Shock, Dual Shock 2) don't have real hardware dead zones (except for the small amount of looseness that you can feel just by lightly touching the stick). It's the software that is programmed to either (A) react slowly to accidental movements within a numb-zone, or (B) ignore movements in that same zone, creating a dead zone. If you've ever tested the calibration of those sticks (either when plugged into a PC or on a PS game that allows you to adjust sensitivity) you'll see that there's no hardware deadzone. But play some games, move the stick a mm in any direction, you'll see no movement. That's in software. But without that software sensitivity calibration, you'd have accidental movements every time you click the stick at an off-center angle.

      Two Z buttons, okay pretend there are two. Now hand that controller to 10 people. If just one person sticks their middle fingers on the triggers and their index fingers on the Z buttons, something's wrong. Have you ever seen someone pick up a Dremcast controller and do this (middle fingers on the triggers, index fingers on the top of the controller)? I've seen quite a few, and it's wrong. You can hurt your pinkies and ring fingers after playing that way for a long time.

      Bean buttons, whatever. I like both the idea and the implementation for ergonomic reasons. Great idea for most game genres.

  15. Re:Banjo Kazooie IV: Kazooie Emancipation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...carrying a 200 lb bear on his back...

    Except that Kazooie is female.

  16. Metal-ly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From these pictures it looks like the demo units were made of metal.

    Also the designs are not necessarily final. Some cosmetic touches can be added before now and the winter holiday season.

  17. I'd be more interested if this were 4 years ago. by Mirkon · · Score: 1

    I joyfully remember Rare's fantastic N64 (and even SNES) titles. But after playing StarFox Adventures, and hearing about the GBA Banjo-Kazooie (Grunty's Revenge) from a friend who played it, I find it difficult to become excited about Rare's upcoming developments.

    I do believe that somewhere in the last console generation, most of their development talent disappeared.

    --
    Glog!
  18. Goldeneye by TLSPRWR · · Score: 1

    I think the real thing that attracted people to Goldeneye is not that it was the first Console FPS, but the first MULTIPLAYER console FPS. When I think back on Goldeneye, I don't remember the long difficult single player, but of the lengthy sessions of deathmatch with friends. Even if it was only 4 people at a time, it still rocked.