Apple Creates new iPod and Macintosh Divisions

KH2002 writes "According to a New York Times/Reuters report, Apple is creating a separate division for the iPod. Apple Senior VP Hardware Engineering, Jon Rubenstein, will head the iPod division, and Executive VP of Worldwide Sales and Operations Tim Cook will lead the Mac division. The report quotes a spokesman as saying, 'This organizational refinement will focus our talent and resources even more precisely on our industry-leading Macintosh computers and the wildly successful iPod.'"

Comments

Better focus or Mac to be axed?

[MacGod]

It seems of late that Apple has been focusing more and more on the music side of their business (ITMS, iPod etc).

Therefore, I can see this decision going one of two ways:

1. Each division focuses more on their individual strengths. Each half becomes better suited to its product, and the company as a whole grows and becomes stronger.
2. Apple decreases the emphasis on its Computer division to focus more and more effort on the Music side. The Mac as we know it disappears.

I certainly hope that it's #1, and I have a hunch that it is, but it will be very interesting to see what developers over the next few years.

Re:Better focus or Mac to be axed?

[pauljlucas]

Apple decreases the emphasis on its Computer division to focus more and more effort on the Music side. The Mac as we know it disappears.

As nice as it is, the iPod is pretty much a one-trick pony. Do you really think Apple could sustain itself on the (relatively small) profit margins of the iPod alone? Additionally, iTunes and the iTMS are presumeably staying in the Mac division. The FireWire sync of one's entire music library fom iTunes is the killer feature of the iPod. The iPod division will still have to work closely with the Mac division.

What I'm hoping will happen with the iPod division will be that they will start making their own iPod accessories. What I really want is a car head unit that has a slot that one just pops the iPod into. Current iPod adapter solutions are all crap and don't measure up to Apple design standards.

Re:Better focus or Mac to be axed?

[Pope]

Sales of PowerMacs have tapered off in anticipation of newer/faster models coming "real soon now." IBM has had troubles getting the faster chips out the door, so the G5 line remains stagnant, certainly not a good thing for Apple's image OR bottom-line.

I know I've been holding off for a Rev B G5 mainly because I want a dual chip machine, and though the Dual 1.8 is the best price/perfomance ratio at the moment, it's still going on 6 or 7 months old. I have no urgent, pressing need for a G5, so holding off for the next speedbump makes sense to me.

Creating a separate iPod/music division away from the Mac line is a fantastic idea, and will allow more concentration on their respecetive products.

Re:Better focus or Mac to be axed?

[Llywelyn]

Better than a hunch.

Apple has filed for trademarks over three more cat names (Lynx, Cougar, and Leopard), which good through 2007 at their current OS release rate, *and* they have said that they are going to slow down their operating system release rate. I believe that their Mac hardware division is also profitable on most lines independent of their iPods.

Taking these two things into account I find it *highly* unlikely that there is *any* plan to kill off the Mac.

Re:Better focus or Mac to be axed?

[noewun]

Sales of PowerMacs have tapered off in anticipation of newer/faster models coming "real soon now."

Quite a normal computer industry phenomenon, and nothing to worry about.

I'm typing this on a dual 1.8 G5. Nice machine.

Re:Better focus or Mac to be axed?

[dhovis]

There was one business mag that suggested that Apple should spin off the iPod and iTMS into a separate company and issue an IPO for it. It would net Apple lots of cash, and it could isolate Apple from the eventual decline of the iPod.

This does make some sense, as it is hard to envision Apple keeping the iPod as a high profit margin device for more than 5 years or so. I don't know about you, but I kind of expect the functionality of my iPod, my Palm, and my cell phone to converge by then. I suspect that Apple hopes that by the time that happens, they will have a large share of the legal downloads market, and that sales for iTMS will be large enough to produce a good profit, even with the razor thin margins they have now.

Re:Better focus or Mac to be axed?

[reaper20]

As nice as it is, the iPod is pretty much a one-trick pony.

This is why I love my iPod so much and probably why it's so successful.

Re:Better focus or Mac to be axed?

[Elwood P Dowd]

As nice as it is, the iPod is pretty much a one-trick pony. Do you really think Apple could sustain itself on the (relatively small) profit margins of the iPod alone? Additionally, iTunes and the iTMS are presumeably staying in the Mac division.

Dunno why you'd presume that.

Also, the new division may be responsible for other one-trick-pony devices, should Apple decide to market them.

The thing that I find the most notable about this is that Jon Rubinstein (not going to check the spelling, sorry) is the guy that everyone lauds for the iMac, the tiBook & the alBook, the cheesegrater, and the iPod's excellent design. You'll note how four out of those five items are Macintoshes and not tiny consumer electronic devices.

Was Jon a figurehead, will he still be involved in Mac hardware design, or does this mean that we'll be seeing lamer (maybe just different) design for the next generation of Mac enclosures?

Re:Better focus or Mac to be axed?

[pauljlucas]

Dunno why you'd presume that.

1. Because the linked article made no mention of it: no data, assume no change.
2. The software runs on a Mac, not an iPod.
3. There are people (like me) who use iTunes and the iTMS who don't own iPods.

Re:Better focus or Mac to be axed?

[Trillan]

I don't know about you, but I kind of expect the functionality of my iPod, my Palm, and my cell phone to converge by then.

Convergence is over-rated. Each of these devices serves a different purpose and requires a different form factor. Look at your current gadgets, they're probably more or less ideal in terms of form factor. How comfortable would it be to write on your cell phone's screen? How would you like to hold your Palm up to your ear for an extended period of time? And once you have a single device, how do you turn up your music player a bit while talking on the phone, and then quickly jot down a number?

But integration between the devices would certainly be nice. A cell phone sending a signal to turn down an iPod might be nice. A Palm that can shunt little-used programs off to an iPod would be handy.

Re:Better focus or Mac to be axed?

[Elwood P Dowd]

Dunno why you'd presume that iTunes and iTMS is in their hardware division and not in some software or web content division.

Re:Better focus or Mac to be axed?

[MacGarnicle]

The thing that I find the most notable about this is that Jon Rubinstein (not going to check the spelling, sorry) is the guy that everyone lauds for the iMac, the tiBook & the alBook, the cheesegrater, and the iPod's excellent design. You'll note how four out of those five items are Macintoshes and not tiny consumer electronic devices.

Are you sure you're not confusing Jon Rubinstein with Jonathan Ive? Ive is usually credited for the design excellence you mentioned.

Re:Better focus or Mac to be axed?

[Unregistered]

What I really want is a car head unit that has a slot that one just pops the iPod into.

Many HU's have a jack in the back which you can buy an adapter for that can connect to an ipod. You can run the wire from that jack to whatever location you want to put the iPod in. My ipod sits in the door pocket where it is nicely out of the way and hidden from theives.

Re:Better focus or Mac to be axed?

[IntlHarvester]

Do you really think Apple could sustain itself on the (relatively small) profit margins of the iPod alone?

iPods currently have a much larger profit margin than Macintoshes (which are barely above break-even).

Do you think Apple could sustain itself making only unprofitible Macs forever? (As they aren't really doing anything to increase market share.)

The long-term digital music/movies business is not a "one trick pony" -- in the future it's bound to be integrated into every cell phone, PDA, car stereo, home stereo, cable box, and television set. I guess the development of an 'iPod' division indicates that Apple is looking at the big picture and not just the trick pony.

Re:Better focus or Mac to be axed?

[pauljlucas]

The long-term digital music/movies business is not a "one trick pony" -- in the future it's bound to be integrated into every cell phone, PDA, car stereo, home stereo, cable box, and television set.

The thing that companies haven't figured out yet is that nobody wants to watch movies on portable devices with tiny screens. It's an application looking for a market.

I guess the development of an 'iPod' division indicates that Apple is looking at the big picture and not just the trick pony.

If they really wanted to do that, they would have created a "consumer electronics" division.

Re:Better focus or Mac to be axed?

[That's Unpossible!]

I agree. I don't think we'll see much more (successful) convergence until there is a paradigm shift in user interfaces.

I'm thinking along the lines of having a 'convergent device' in my pocket (no, I'm not just happy to see you), with wireless technology feeding images to me through glasses or similar technology, with voice recognition, hand gesture recognition, etc (perhaps built into the glasses).

"Search engine. How do I get to Target from here?"

[Device looks up mapquest directions, map displays on HUD w/directions]

"Phone. Call Dave Jones."

[Phone dials, microphone and earphones are built into your glasses.]

"Calendar. Remind me. December 7, 1941 12PM. A date that will live in something something..."

[Calendar alarm is added to your schedule.]

"Take a memo. Subject: Convergent devices. Here are some more ideas for convergent device user interfaces..."

[New memo is created.]

"Camera. Pic."

[Camera built into glasses takes a picture.]

"Music. Shuffle. Dave Matthews Band."

[Device starts playing music, channeled to your earphones built into the glasses.]

Only problem with this thing is everyone will be wearing glasses. It's either that or implants.

Re:Better focus or Mac to be axed?

[Maserati]

I have an Executive Producer upstairs who is Dead Set on getting a wireless device she can watch movies on - so she can see rough cuts while on location. And she'll authorize whatever the gadget will cost.

Of course, in the consumer market the parent poster is probably right.

Re:Better focus or Mac to be axed?

[sean23007]

There are also people who use iTunes and iTMS and own iPods, but don't use a Mac. Like me. iTunes and iTMS are software products that work on Windows. The iPod works on Windows. I makes sense, logically, that the iPod division would be the one that would interface with Windows machines, and they are separating that from the Mac division so that there is no conflict of interest of any kind.

Re:Better focus or Mac to be axed?

[elemental23]

Just imagine the number of people holding off on their Powerbook purchases until the G5 comes out (I count myself among them). I don't need it urgently, so I'm ok with waiting on what's sure to be a damn impressive laptop.

If I can get one even after they come out; I expect the demand to be far greater than the supply for quite a while.

Re:Better focus or Mac to be axed?

[Trillan]

Ah, but I doubt you'd be carrying around seven devices. There are, perhaps, two or three ideal form factors:

Palm: Comfortable to hold flat in the hand and operate with a pen or finger. Large screen. Examples: PDA, GPS, a calculator. By all means, merge them all into one and have a super PDA.

Ear: Comfortable to hold up to your ear for an extended period of time, which requires a smaller (or at least less wide) screen. The only thing I can really think of that fits into this category is a cell phone, which is good, because a cell phone is the only device here that can really issue an "interrupt," and the only one that you need immediate access to without losing your place in one of the other devices.

Pocket: Small enough to put in a pocket, but doesn't need to fit in the hand. Over the long run, this could become the same thing as the Palm sized device, but it doesn't have the same constraints.

Once you have these, you've got pretty much the ideal. And the devices should communicate with each other, I just am not sure I really want one that does everything, especially one where I need to lose my place in a memo to place a phone call.

Obviously, the Palm-sized device will need a better interface than either Palm or PocketPC currently offer.

Re:Better focus or Mac to be axed?

[magefile]

It's very Unix-y - do one thing and do it well. It's also very un-Linux/BSD-ish - I can't afford one.

Re:Better focus or Mac to be axed?

[Feral Bueller]

I have an Executive Producer upstairs who is Dead Set on getting a wireless device she can watch movies on - so she can see rough cuts while on location. And she'll authorize whatever the gadget will cost.

Precisely. This is more than likely where the market pressure will be felt the most strongly.

Our team has built an app that among other things, allows our producers to preview acquired video (we're talking way upstream of rough cuts, btw.)

The biggest feature request is to be able to access the app from home, which is doable as long as you've got pipe and can VPN in.

Your average Executive Producer isn't going to be doing that.

A handheld video device can create some new challenges (especially from a security standpoint) but they are all solvable -- a device that required me to authenticate with my SecureID would be sweet...

If you have an A/V out then you're outputting to a DLT projector and a 5:1 home theater system if you so choose... can you imagine a player that you could dock to your TiVo, transfer files, and carry around with you?

Of course, in the consumer market the parent poster is probably right.

ehh..... I dunno.

I didn't really see the point in carrying around 5,000 mp3s with me until I bought my iPod. Now I'm looking at buying a second one just to make my home folder machine portable :-)

An avPod would sell like crazy: especially to all of the Volvo/Audi driving soccer parents who are making movies every time their darling baby angel blinks and putting them up on their .Mac web pages.

I'd go buy one today. I've got over 20 GB of music videos that I would love to be able to carry around in a small form factor and plug into my home theater as easily as I can with my iPod.

Re:Better focus or Mac to be axed?

[Bombcar]

What I really want is a car head unit that has a slot that one just pops the iPod into.

It is coming......

This will be the first, others will come after....

Perhaps even an iPod changer for those who want more than 40 GB....

Re:Better focus or Mac to be axed?

[pauljlucas]

It is coming......

I was aware of Alpine's plans, but this is the first I've seen a picture of it. I was afraid they'd do something like this: the wire is still there. Ugh. I want no wires. Remeber when cassette decks were standard in cars, then portable CD players came out, then those horrible adapters came out? You know, the ones with a fake cassette and wires all over your front seat? I hated those.

The right solution is to make the iPod slip into a slot for it, preferably with the slot in the head unit itself behind the fold-down faceplate.

I'm entitled to want what I want.

This will be the first, others will come after....

All I can do is hope that somebody gets it right.

Re:Better focus or Mac to be axed?

[dthree]

It will be a single connector to the iPod, plugging into alpine's ainet on the head unit. It will basically use the iPod as a portable hard drive, allowing the head unit to play music files from the iPod's hard drive. It uses the same interface that Alpine uses for its cd changers and other components so it would operate as if you have a 1000 disk changer. Google "alpine ipod" and you can see the press releases.

Re:Better focus or Mac to be axed?

[IntlHarvester]

Most of that $4B was stashed away in the 1980s when Macs had 50% margins. Look it up. Last quarter, Apple had only $46M income on $1.91B revenue, which is barely above break-even. They do have huge margins, but they also have huge R&D and marketing overhead.

Thanks, but no thanks

[Bastian]

I love my iPod and all, but what I really want you to do, Apple, is to bring back the UI research team. Don't forget what made your users so devoted in the first place, Steve-o.

moof.

Re:Maybe now we'll get ogg support?

[Llywelyn]

Politics such as the irrelevancy of Ogg to 99% of the people who are in the iPod's target market?

Re:Industry Leading?

[Snowspinner]

Educational computing? (Have a look sometime at how many people at your local college have iBooks)

Multimedia work?

They're at the forefront of plenty of areas that they've been aggressively targetting for years. ~~~~

Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

this will separate Macintosh fans from Apple Computers Inc. fans.

Possible motive:

[Anonymous Coward]

Besides moolah. When I read this report I thought it may be a response to Apple Records pressure and a preemptive action to divorce the music selling business the content creation side of the equation.

Re:Whatever shall they call the iPod division?

[Phillup]

Won't matter as long as they don't call it "Apple"... thus serving the real which is to deal with a lawsuit.

Divisions....Divisions

[Ramrodicus777]

So does this mean that Apple will become like Microsoft, with the different divisions blaming one another for the incompatibilities between their products?

If they spin of iPod and ITMS

[dcocos]

I wonder if they can avoid the Apple vs Apple law suit about Apple not being able to enter the music industry.

Re:Maybe now we'll get ogg support?

[cyb97]

converting from one lossy format to another is a horrible solutions, if a solution at all. It's a kludge, and a pretty bad one, too.

It would be relatively trivial for apple to implement support for other codecs, given that their code doesn't look like dogshit. I'm pretty sure it's not a technical decision, but rather a purely political one.

Re:Maybe now we'll get ogg support?

[MacGod]

[OGG support]is the one thing keeping me from getting an iPod tomorrow.

See, for me it's support of Sun Audio (AU), IMA ADPCM and PSION sound formats (see details of these here)

How dare Apple mock my insistence on using these obscure^H^H^H^H^H^H^H highly reputable formats!

Re:Maybe now we'll get ogg support?

[Llywelyn]

There are several very good reasons not to.

First, the iPod only supports a limited number of formats, and iTunes should only natively support the same formats as the iPod. This is for a combination of ease of use, user perception, and technical reasons.

Second, there is no reason for them to put any effort into supporting it. They have AAC, which for the bitrates most people use is equivalent to or superior to Ogg. The consumer doesn't care how "free" Ogg is when Apple is willing to cover things with AAC and mp3.

They have the Apple Lossless instead of FLAC, and they support the most common format--mp3. Why on earth would they want to confuse things for newbies and people like my mother by adding another format and thus another choice?

difficult to seperate iTunes and Apple

[Johnny Mozzarella]

don't forget that the iPod and the iTM$ are tied to iTunes which is tied to iLife.

I think it would be very bad for iTunes to become separated from Apple.

I'm hoping instead that the iPod division will focus on more devices like a car stereo and a home theater system that builds on the iPod design and GUI.

Have you seen the dashboards in Motion?

[Johnny Mozzarella]

Don't forget Bud Tribble is back.

Jeff Raskin can take a hike as far as I'm concerned.

Apple should still be listening to Tog he has some good ideas.

How will this affect us?

[amichalo]

How will this affect the consumer? Will this new iPod (read 'consumer electroincs') division not be concerned with the focus on the Mac and therefore we could see new products being released for Windows FIRST, followed by Linux, to include OS X? This is how many hardware/software dev companies work becuase the market is so slim it makes economic 'cents' to go after the larger market.

And what affect, if any, will this change have on the concept of the iPod causing people to switch to Apple?

I've got a fantastic idea

[switcha]

Why don't you start an online petition for everyone who is holding off on an iPod purchase until Apple supports ogg? Then, when all 27 of you have signed it, you can forward the list to Apple and see what they think about putting man-towards the endeavor.

mobiles and music

[grrrl]

My old nokia 8310 had an FM radio that, when you got a call, would ring through the headphones and mute the radio when you answered the call, and then turn the radio back on when you hung up (answering via the wired remote on the headphones so no digging through my bag)

I think integrating a phone into something like an ipod would be a great idea in some respects and just annoying in others.

I'd love to stop getting weird looks in the street while im listening to my pod and my phone rings and i dont hear it...

id love to have less stuff to carry around and less stuff to forget to charge up

however, the main use of my mobile is for sms, and id hate to sacrifice the ipod interface to enable text messaging... though maybe ~10 little buttons (or less) could be popped under the scroll wheel, with good predictive text this could work

also, i abuse my phone terribly - it gets dropped in clubs, used in the rain, attacked with greasy fingers and the like... and then i just change the cover and its all nice - id hate for my pod to get so dirty and abused!! sure, my old phone cost more than my pod! but the changable everything helped when it got scratched etc

size is also an issue - weenie phones fit great into little handbags, even the ipod mini wouldnt do that too well

Wrong John

[tyrione]

Johnathan Ive which has already been mentioned, is the industrial design guru that should be rightly credited with the iPod, iMac, and the toaster Cube that flopped with consumers.

Jon Rubenstein comes from NeXT and was the former Head of NeXT Hardware, developed the Apollo line of HP Workstations before joining NeXT. Upon the NeXT Hardware being shutdown Jon left and worked on the PowerPC Hardware for a subsidiary owned by Motorola.

Jon currently is and rightly so credited for the XServe and XRaid product lines with all his experience and expertise. Having Jon add to his overseeing with the iPod tells me that Apple is getting ready to produce a Professional and Consumer Electronic Lineup that ties into its Professional and Consumer Software Application base that continues to grow.

Think of digital devices that Final Cut Pro can take advantage of, to name just one obvious option. Think of video add-ons for iPod users that could attach a DVD made via DVD Studio Pro.

For goodness sakes, it's not a troll..

[Improv]

I've owned Apple hardware before (eMate, 1st-gen iBook), and have no beef with the iPod. I think it's actually pretty cool, which is why I've held off on buying another handheld music player. It's not a question of economics -- implementing OGG wouldn't cost much, nor would it be horribly confusing if their music players suddenly gained the ability to play another format. Quicktime player already plays a number of formats, as does Windows media player, and nobody complains that they're too complex. I really just want to have something as cool as the iPod with the compatibility I need to make it work well with my Linux systems. I don't see why this desire should mark me as a troll.