Slashdot Mirror
Schizophrenia Experiences and Suggestions?
Jagercola asks: "My sister was recently diagnosed with Schizophrenia. It's a chronic, severe, and disabling brain disease that we don't know a lot about. The movie, A Beautiful Mind, paints an accurate picture of how the disease affects someone in a best case scenario. I would like the vast audience here to help me understand the disease through experiences and that it might help me aid my sister. If you know someone how has the disease, how has it affected your and their life? How have you been able to cope with it? What are the long term implications for quality of life?"
I understand you're trying to cope with this. I would feel for you if I knew you and I liked you. However, I have to ask: Why on Earth would you ask this question on slashdot? Go post do a search on groups.google.com and POST IN A NEWSGROUP OVER THERE.
Slashdot already provides people with enough inaccurate Science and Technology information... lets not shoot for Medical as well...
I'm sorry to hear of your trouble. I offer prayers for you and your sister.
Hiawatha Bray
Tech Reporter
Boston Globe
this isn't a "troll" , maybe 'beautiful mind' wasn't accurate, but the submitter is obviously unknowledgable on the topic, which is why he/she is asking.
please try and understand the difference between "not knowing" and "being a troll"
Marge, get me your address book, 4 beers, and my conversation hat.
He thought everyone was out to get him. In the end he was diagnosed with cancer and refused all treatment because he thought it was a plot against him. He sued several government agencies because he thought they were after him.
Best treatment is drugs which seemed to help somewhat. As far as coping watch what you say around the person.
My uncle particularly managed to live with it quite well. He went to special schools when he was growing up. I don't know what they did, but apparantly they have special teaching techniques that could give him employable skills. I remember my psychology professor talking about how experiments have been done like teaching autistic children to perform fairly complex tasks through repetitive conditioning, rather than traditional teaching. It could be something like that. He certainly didn't get a full education (no science or history, minimal math, basically enough English to read the newspaper)
Between medicine and education, he's managed to make a decent living as an electrician. They recently put him on a new set of medications, and he seems perfectly normal to talk to now.
My sympathies for your sisters condition. About the only thing I can think of saying is treasure the best times more than the bad times. Remember that even in outbursts you hate or cant understand she is suffering too.
I would take any response you get here with a grain of salt and a suit of armor. Some of it will be geeky resentment at the topic not mentioning an operating system and some will be complete lack of empathy or experience.
Find a newsgroup or a circle of people confronting this illness. Its not well uderstood so its even harder to explain.
There is a schizophrenia.com that looks to have a bunch of stuff to start.
http://www.schizophrenia.com/
ls
First of all, anybody with moderating experience, please remove any of the attempts to be funny I've just observed in the comments above here. Schizophrenia is not to be taken lightly. My closest friend was diagnosed with it about 8 years ago. It comes in many different forms of varying severity. For me as his friend and closest support outside his family (who didn't help, they had a similar aversion to the disease as displayed by the FOOLS who have commented above) it was traumatic. Someone who I felt I knew because someone who I didn't feel I knew, even though it was the same person. It did, in the short term, destroy his life. Heavy drugs and intensive therapy (etc) were the run of the mill for a good deal of time, and an element of that remains with him today. His life never returned quite to normal. I don't want to fill you with gloom, like I say every case is different. What I will say is they'll need you every step of the way, and if you hang in there, you will be rewarded - and by that I mean the person you cared about before will still be there and show through, and they won't go away completely - it can feel like that. My sister was diagnosed with a different form of mental illness, and so I fully sympathise with your position. If I can be of any help as a third party in sharing your concerns, feel free to email me at fraccy4@hotmail.com. ps to the purveyors of the foolish comments above, you're ignorant, and if I had you here in person, you'd get a smack in the mouth.
I babysit a kid with downsymdrome quite often and to be honest I don't go "OMG YOU ARE TEH RETARD!", he is still human and sure his marbles maybe missing one or two but he isn't some lepper or something.
This sounds really harsh but you (the ask slashdot poster), sound like you're asking about something "weird" or "bad". Remember she is still your sister and because some one said she has a mental disability does not change a thing.
She is the same person she was before the person said it, and she will be the same person years after he has. Try to just "accept it" and don't act like she is disabled or however you perfer to think about it
--- [Insert intresting Sig here]
A very nihilistic perspective.
What you are suggesting the submitter do is just accept that their lives are insignificant and forget about it. If everyone had that view, we would never have built any beautiful cities, there would have been no great art, and humans would be nothing animals, driven by base desire to satify their urge to eat, deficate, urinate, and procreate.
Further, this has NOTHING to do with schizophrenia which is the result of too much dopamine in the brain. There is superficially no difference between someone diagnosed with schizophrenia and someone who has taken too much cocaine or amphetamine. The first thing a doctor checks for when he meets someone who he believes to suffer from schizophrenia is whether or not they have used any stimulants or hallucinagens recently.
It has nothing to do with depression or sadness, this is a disorder that fundamentally affects how you perceive the world and how you think.
I don't read or respond to AC posts
The anonymous coward who said I should stop driving....the one who is too damn chicken to even put a name to the insults.
You'd be wise to be wary of ANY medical info from ANYONE on here. I don't know The Tyro's medical background from poop-on-a-stick.
You can't prove to me anyone's medical background on here and where some comments might be thought provoking, if you take it at face value you probably deserve what you get.
So medical doctor or not Tyro, your opinion doesn't mean dick on Slashdot.
I don't blame you for posting this on Slashdot. It's a big crowd of people...there are bound to be a few that have experiences with schizophrenia. And when this news hits, it's pretty scary and you just want to know more from anywhere!
I have a friend that may be schizophrenic. They keep changing the diagnosis between bipolar and schizo. The initial events were pretty scary. She ultimately disappeared for a month or so (both mentally and physically). After some institutionalization and meds, she's much better. I think sticking to the meds is probably the best advice. Of course, with the number of crappy side-effects, I'm sure that will be hard. Avoiding stressors is also good advice, but..yeah...hard to do in a 'normal' life.
But, so far, my friend has been doing quite well and she seems happy and healthy. I think she does get bothered/scared when symptoms flair up (voices, hallucinations, etc.) Something she'll have do deal with for the rest of her life I suppose. But, I'm glad she's alive and with us again. Good luck.
-buzz
I have a friend who manifested minor, secondary symptoms of schiz for years. he was misdiagnosed with depression, and the prescribed medication understandably did little.
Finally he had a complete break with reality. Voices...psychic transmissions...shadowy groups controlling his mind, and the minds of those around him...I patiently listened through this, and suggested that while those things might be real, it was also possible that it was schiz, and that he should see a doctor to be sure. if it wasn't schiz, then i would believe him and help him vs. the psychics.
He wasn't too agreeable at first but luckily his parents convinced him to go to a doctor before things got too bad. He was really turning into a danger to himself or others.
Today he is on medication and under therapist supervision. The meds are rough on him but he's making progress. He's taking classes and finally about to go back to school fulltime to get a degree. In time, once the meds get balanced and he learns how to handle it, he'll be leading a perfectly normal, though regulated, life.
He's different now than before, more subdued and less volitile, but its still him. Schiz is very misunderstood, and difficult to treat -- its hard and it takes time, but it can be done.
Moo.
My best friend and roommate became schizophrenic while I lived with him. I left the medical stuff to the doctors and just tried to calm him down so he could sleep (which is a big problem when you hear voices). Don't try to argue with them, just make them feel better.
I learned that the mental health care system in this country sucks. Unless someone is an imminent danger to themselves or others nobody will see you for several weeks. I made dozens of phone calls saying "my friend is hearing voices". Half of the people were like "suuuure...your friend".
The new medications they have are better than the old stuff. The problem with all mental health medications are that people feel "fine" and decide they don't need the medicine anymore. With schizophrenia, that can have disastrous results (my uncle's friend killed his gf that way). This is sad, but don't expect the person to have the same personality that you remember. They're going to be different and you have to deal with that.
I know it's a goofy Ask Slashdot. But considering that Schizophrenia mostly affects males 18-30, I'm sure several Slashdotters out there are dealing with something similar in some way.
-B
I was diagnosed with schizophrenia in May 2001, and pronounced recovered in September 2004.
:)
The first thing you must accept is that this is long term. No one gets better over night, 12 - 36 months is normal. The medication for the illness is almost as bad as the illness itself; make sure your sister can take all the time she needs to rest. I was sleeping 16 hours a day on average. If your sister was in school, or had a job, she most certainly will not be able to get there everyday. Pushing her to continue school, or continue work is far from a good idea right now. She must take her medication everyday. Missing just one dose doubles the chance of relapse. You and your family may have a hard time coping, but your concern about how you feel that is complete selfishness. Your sister is the one with the illness, and one quote I read "If depression was the common cold of psychological disorders, schizophrenia would be the cancer." is entirely true. She needs a lot of loving care, and she needs to take things very very slow. One question to ask, "What's another year?" What's so bad if it takes her another year to complete school? Forcing herself to live her life as she usually did will have horrific results. She does not need any stress right now - just understanding and comfort.
I lost 2 years of my life to the illness, but I did recover. Recovery is possible, always remember that. It will take a year, maybe 5 years... but 1/3 do recover with no chance of relapse. There are a lot of scary statistics, but as long as she takes her medication everyday, and minimizes her stress, things may improve.
I'm sorry I'm not able to give more specific information, but from the details you gave, that's all I can say now. If you have more questions, I'll do my best to answer them.
Long term, even thought I had the illness, I did recover, and I am going onto second year psychology in University for a Ph.D. (My final mark in first year psychology was 90%) Once she recovers, she'll have as good a life as anyone, if not better.
Dollar Highway Financial News
Wow, who would have thought I'd see this on slashdot? It makes little sense to post this question here, but yet, it was posted. And I am reading it. Which is ... interesting, since my brother too was diagnosed with schizophrenia, a little over two years ago now. This thread shouts out to me to say something about it, but I find now that it is harder than it seems.
He's my twin brother, not identical, but still very much a kindred spirit of mine. We got along very well in our youths, and were each other's best friend for many years. But then, slowly, almost unnoticably, we began to grow apart. While I, in my own geekish, unassuming way, started to mature into at least a semblance of adulthood, he seemed to resist it, opting instead to retreat further and further into his own internal world.
His is truly a Beautiful Mind; he is brilliant in many fields, not least language and lingustics. But more often than not, his mind was incorrecly applied, with sad results. For instance, one long period of his life was mostly spent lamenting the fact that the world does not share a single language. It seemed a little funny to others, including me, of course, but to him it was no joke. He would truly suffer emotionally as a result of this and other obsessions.
When the 'crash' came, he had deteriorated quite badly. Although he never did drugs or alchohol of any sort, as is common with schizophrenics, he might as well have. He was unemployed and not in school, moping around the house (our parents' house, where the both of us still lived at the time). He would seldom go outside, and would sit inside his room listening to esoteric music and writing furiously on any scrap of paper he could find. This had been a long-time habit of his, and he was (and is) a brilliant writer, but we would soon find out that these latest writings of his were of a rather sinister nature. It was typical schizophrenic musings; his imagined conversations with a supernatural being who was leading him through some sorts of rites of power, through which he would realize his true spiritual potential. If only that had been true.
Like I said, it has been 2 years now, and the situation isn't much better than it was in the beginning. My brother is still in and out of institutions, heavily medicated, and inactive. He is, frankly, a shell of what he used to be, and we can only hope this will change ... someday. Yes, the film 'A Beautiful Mind' was truly a best-case scenario. Although my brother is probably not a worst-case scenario, he is pretty far from the almost-happy ideal portrayed in the film. He cannot control his fits in any rational manner.
Schizophrenia is not just seeing imaginary people. More often than not, that doesn't happen at all. Extreme, debilitating bouts of irrational, uncomfortable ideas, thoughts and feelings are more common, often followed by hallucinations of many sorts. Most of the time, it is things you cannot simply block out just by concentrating. The disease is hopelessly irrational, and it hijacks the brain completely. In fact, it becomes your brain, in a manner of speaking. How can you use your brain to supress something when it's your brain itself that needs to be supressed?
I know this isn't very comforting, but it is the truth. And, perhaps I myself will feel a little better after having shared this with the world.
I hear there's rumors on the Slashdots
On any given subject, there are some true experts on Slashdot that can give insightful, informative opinions, and that's great.
There are also a lot of intelligent geeks that think they know a lot more than they really do, and will spout a lot of information that looks insightful and informative, but in many cases is underinformed, or just wrong.
People who are asking questions will have a very hard time identifying these people and sorting out the people who actually know what they're talking about.
This can also be a nice place for classic trolling, where someone in either of these categories posts something that is designed to look like it came from an expert, but contains carefully placed inaccuracies just to screw with people.
So, this is the Internet, you have to be wary of pretty much everyone. Asking for stories is alright, if you don't change your life based on them. Asking for medical/legal (and in some cases technical) advice is foolish, even though there are many people qualified to answer.
The problem is balancing helping take medication with harassing her into taking her medicine.
When I was first diagnosed, my family would bug me all the time "did you take your medication", "it's time for your medication", "what do you mean you forgot? You take it every day!"
Whenever I had a bad day, or was just thinking about something, it was a "sign that I hadn't been taking the medication."
After a while, you wonder whom the medication is for? Maybe a sedative for the folks would work out in everyone's best interest.
With alcoholics, after they sober up for a little while they start having family problems. Of course, they've always had them. The alcoholic's problem enabled the family to ignore their own, concentrating on his/hers. When that problem is no longer there, there is a noted tendency for the family to constantly harp on the problem as a tool in every family fight. After a while, the alcoholic starts wondering that, as long as he's getting blamed for it still, he might as well have a drink now and then....
If there've been troubles due to a mental disorder, there's usually some of that there. Don't be fooled by how concerned/relieved people seem by the diagnosis. Watch to make sure that they don't use the diagnosis as an excuse. With daughters it's often an excuse to remove their freedom of choice. I've seen it happen more than a few times.
These are all reasons why people stop taking the medication. Also, they just stop feeling like themselves. Bipolars, such as myself, are well known for getting off medication because they "just don't feel right."
In addition, don't let the doctors bullshit you: some of the medications have side effects. Most of them do. Besides the physical ones, there's the mental ones. Every bipolar I know of has complained about the medication reducing their creativity, and whether or not it's in their head it does seem to be an effect.
Many of the anti-psychotic agents these days are far more gentle than before (the older medications were bad shit), but they're still known to change people a bit.
What I'm saying is that people have very good reasons for mistrusting or disliking the medication. It is important to take it, but don't let the medication be your reasons for interacting. Don't let it be a sword hanging over your relationship.
By treatment, I mean helping them to be who they want to be, not drugging them, electrocuting them or institutionalising them. I hesitate to use the word cure, but as far as you and I are concerned, that is what happens in 60% of his cases.
He does not believe in the dopamine theory of schizophrenia - if that was accurate, a dopamine antagonist would turn schizophrenics into normal people - it doesn't. But he does understand schizophrenics, which is something no-one here (nor even of all the writers of Beautiful Mind) can claim.
He freely provides these understandings, backed by many prominent psychiatrists, on his website, which you'll find interesting in any case.
Chances of you reading this post are slim. But I hope you find it anyway and she may one day thank you for researching beyond the limited help the medical community provides.
I know enough about the condition to know that everyone is going to have vastly different experiences with the disease and course of treatment. I was with one guy for 7 yeas, whos father and unlces were formally diagonsed. He knew that statistically, the risks were high to develop it, and yet refused to seek help. It really started with bouts of depression, lasting longer and longer as time went on, and then the paranoia and irrational behavior stepped in. I knew it was bad when he started using his own lanague - and then progressed to using his own language and insisting it was english. I really don't know where he is going to end up. He is intellectually brillant, but can not focus long enough to do anything. My best friend was also recently diagnosed. Hers manifested itself as strong suicidal tendencies, social anxiety, and odd personal behaviors (such as cutting off in mid-sentence and wandering off to do something completely unrelated). She is on Ambiel, among other meds, and there has been a marked improvement of her behavior. It has not made her a shell, but for the first time in years she feels like she can control her own thoughts and the suicidal urges have disappated. She still retains a very active and quirky sense of humor, and is very much like the person I first met 7 years ago. She still needs professsional help beyond what she can get right now, but it is an improvement. I don't think treating it is as easy as taking a pill, but you can't get better on y our own (which is what my now ex bf thought). But as a sibiling, you should try to be as educated as possible - try http://www.nimh.nih.gov/healthinformation/schizoph reniamenu.cfm for more info. And find a support group, either online or in person....like I said, I think experiences differ, but having other people around that know what you are going trhough might help!
-Libwitch
I mean this in all seriousness and without trying to slam mud on the people you love, but
very often mental illness like schizophrenia is not an individual illness, something that some unlucky person just gets like the clap.
Rather, it can be the product of years of upbringing in a particular family environment. And, if you've grown up in a particular family, no matter how out-of-norm the behavior patters happen to be, you will be likely to see yourself and your family as "not too far away from normal".
More than a few case studies have shown how much the family environment has to do with various mental illness.
My advice?
Find a competent family counselor and make some appointments with them so you can start to see the bigger picture, where you might be harboring some misconceptions, ways of thinking that might be doing harm both to your sister and to yourself.
It takes a little courage, but it's worthwhile and you and your sister will feel a lot better in the future.
If you don't seek help, then you condemn yourself to living in the same old behavior patterns that make you and the ones around you sick.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
My sister was diagnosed as schitzo-affective, a combination of schizophrenia and bi-polar disorder (manic depression), about ten years ago.
:-> ) and took an active role in monitoring and controlling her condition. Doctors can prescribe her drugs, but she is the only one who can tell them if they are working.
At the time she was diagnosed I was about 16-17, doing exams, growing up, and being a general teenage boy; she was in the middle of a PhD in physics so was at the other end of the country most of the time. As a result, I only saw here at holidays, and even then I was busy revising and stuff, but I still realised that something wasn't right (I knew she was i'll, but she had also been diagnosed as epileptic around the same time so everything kind of blurred). The most striking thing is that the personality can change quite dramatically, there were times when she seemed like a genuinly different person. This can be as a result of the medication, and the disease.
I personally found this quite hard to deal with, it is very strange seeing someone you thought you knew turn into someone else. I'm not trying to scare you, but it is something that you may need to be prepared for.
As pointed out by another poster, it will take a long time for the doctors to figure out medication levels; mental illness of all kinds is very person specific, there are no drugs or treatments that work for everyone. Electric shock treatment is considered barbaric and horrific by some, while others report that it worked miracles. There are a wide array of anti-psychotics out there, and even the anti-side-effect meds can have a big effect. It is all about finding the balance, and that takes time.
The most important thing that you, and the rest of your family can do is be honest and open. My family are not that close, we don't really talk about personal stuff much, and that caused problems, not just for my sister, but also for me. Remember, mental illness in the family can be quite stressfull, and can affect you. You can only help your sister if you look after yourself. Be open and honest, talk to each other. It is important that you create a supportive environment where there is no stigma, and no secrets about what is going on.
You will need to find a balance between providing support for your sister, and smothering her. She will have to live with her mental illness for the rest of her life, and the best you can do is help her adapt to that reality, and provide support and help when and where she needs it. While medication will help, ultimatly it is down to the individual.
To give you some hope, my sister is now married, has just had a baby, and is starting a part-time course in medical physics. Up untill last year she had held down a high stress job and performed brilliantly, unfortunatly the firm laid off a large proportion of its workforce, closing down her division in the process. She is stable and living life to the full because she took control of her illness, became pro-active in dealing with the doctors (being a born scientist helps
So, don't dispair, keep it real, keep it normal (when she is stable she needs to be in the real world), and keep supporting her. Most importantly, be prepared to just be there and be someone to talk to, or go to when she needs help. Feel free to e-mail me if you need someone to let off steam. Sorry for rambling, I don't have time to make it more concise. Paul
Paul Leader
though my exhortation to keep taking his medication is based on the empirical observation that they appear to have worked for him... ala the poster's description of his clinical improvement.
Your description of feeling better off your medication is common... and dangerous. Bipolar patients often feel better off their medication, particularly when they're entering a manic phase. They feel GREAT... I've had them tell me they feel like God. They're often grandiose (obviously), don't need to eat or sleep, and can be very hypersexual (I've seen some of these patients masturbate continuously for hours and hours). Unfortunately, it doesn't stop there... some manics will continue to progress to the point of raving, psychotic madness. Some develop so much psychomotor agitation that they require intubation and IV sedation to prevent rhabdomyolysis.
Like meth/crack abusers/ODs, manics have been known to successfully fight a half-dozen police officers... then drop dead in the back of a patrol car (the human body is capable of a lot more than most people realize... manics are capable of tremendous exertion, and will fight, fight, fight. Exert yourself long enough, and you can dig yourself into a very deep metabolic hole... sometimes so deep that you die as a result).
You can stop your medication... but untreated schizophrenics and bipolars commit suicide, get arrested, etc at a very high rate. It's your choice, but that's a cold comfort to your family visiting you in prison or a funeral home. Choose wisely... somebody out there probably loves you, and would miss you if you were gone.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
The guy you replied to made a valid point in saying that he knows nothing about you. Then you turn around and call him names and mock him for posting AC.
You're the one who posted in a "juvenile fashion."
True story.
Don't be afraid to speak out when you think the person is losing touch, they often appreciate the reality check themselves, but be compassionate. There's a lot of fear based reasoning to contend with but it's a rollercoaster ride that doen't always leave them incapable of seeing themselves, or you, as constants. Be a constant and may you have many pleasant days with your sister.
"A Beautiful Mind" posits the notion that a person who has severe schizophrenia can simply "will" his delusions away, and ignore them.
Bullshit. Total bullshit.
A person with serious schizophrenia can no more ignore the input of what their brain is telling them than you could simply say that a (real) speeding car heading right for you is "just all in my head." A schizophrenic is receiving input from one part of the brain to another that feels UTTERLY real -- a product of real-world input from their senses -- and they can do little consciously to stop it.
David Cronenberg, in talking about his movie "Spider" (a MUCH more accurate portrayal of mental illness), said that "Mind" was ridiculous and dangerous, i.e., if you have schizophrenia, hey, you can just "deal with it" -- you can just learn to ignore what your brain is telling you (which to YOU, is utterly indistinguishable from objective, externally-confirmable reality), and you'll even get a beautiful woman who looks like Jennifer Connelly to fall in love with you, and STAY by you even though you're delusional to the point of being a danger to yourself and others.
Nonsense!
FYI, I have bipolar disorder, and go through serious manic/depressive phases -- but I wouldn't wish schizophrenia on anyone. (My second cousin has it, and unless she's on her medication, she'll simply wander away from home.) No matter how up/down my moods can get (for limited amounts of time), I always realize the difference between how I feel and how that affects my attitudes about the world AT THAT MOMENT, and I always know that this, too, will pass.
My advice to the original poster is, get reliable, reputable medical attention for your sister, and if she's prescribed medication, make SURE she stays on it. One of the biggest problems with people who are taking drugs for mental illness is, after the symptoms wear off and they "feel better," they often come to the conclusion that they no longer need the medication -- and they quit, with predictable results.
I'd be weary of any "Doctor" who posted medical advice to a public forum, anonymously or not.
As they say in statistics, the plural of anecdote isn't data. I fully expect to see several postings of similar tales. In this instance, the Devil's Advocate might note that the friend was under a lot of stress related to marriage trouble, and may have suffered clinically significant mental effecs because of it. She recovered afterwards because a) she divorced the guy that was causing the stress, and b) she could blame the fillings for the divorce and not herself.
A more charitable interpretation is that the 'schizophrenia' was the result of some other undiagnosed disorder--a burst blood vessel in the brain, perhaps.
The symptoms from mercury (heavy metal) poisoning are essentially asymptomatic (non-deterministic)
As they say on Slashdot, I don't think that word means what you think it means...'asymptomatic' means 'without symptoms'. If the chief symptom of poisoning is that there are no symptoms....
The parent poster presents as fact some highly controversial ideas--the 'link' between mercury and schizophrenia or chronic fatique syndrome, for instance. There is a statistically significant increase in the body's mercury load from amalgam fillings, though it is extremely small. Well-controlled, randomized, blind trials have not found a link between mercury amalgam fillings and any illness, though there are ongoing clinical trials in several places.
Perhaps one of the most troubling observations with respect to dental amalgam is the number of individuals who self-diagnose an amalgam related disorder--of course removal of the fillings cures the psychosomatic illness.
From The Lancet,
Further thoughts--in addition to damaging the teeth during filling replacement (and possibly leading to unnecessary surgery and the associated nonnegligible risks) there are concerns that the replacements for mercury amalgam may be more dangerous to health than the mercury fillings themselves.
~Idarubicin
what a story... there you have it, folks... straight from the horse's mouth. Tom, my heart goes out to your family; talk about living a nightmare.
While schizophrenics are often characterized as violent and dangerous (and some definitely are), they are usually more dangerous to themselves... about 10% end up committing suicide. Paranoid schizophrenics can commit violence against those around them, particularly if those people are included as a part of their delusions of persecution.
I'll never forget an older grandmother that a middle-aged daughter brought into my ER... that older family member was schizophrenic, lived with them, and had made dinner for the whole house (BIG family). Thank God the daughter caught the mother as she was stirring the rat poison into the food... a lot of it. (she was convinced the family was trying to kill her, and was going to do them in first).
It happens, folks... and schizophrenia is a life-long illness. One of relatives has an 20-years-past ex-wife that he STILL gets called about every time she gets arrested or institutionalized. Why? She always gives them my uncle's address and phone number as her "husband." Incidently, she always seems to have his current contact info, despite being unlisted/unpublished, despite moving multiple times, and despite the fact that they haven't spoken in 15 years. Yeah... think about that in the wee hours of the morning...
It's already been said, but mental illness is sometimes just as hard on the family as it is on the patient.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
I hope this doesn't come across badly. But it someone is hallucinating people, are all the details filled in? I mean do they have shadows? Does the wind move their hair? Do they leave footprints?
The purpose of language is communication, If the idea is clear the grammar ain't important
In my own experience of friends and people I know, speed is pretty much the Devil when it comes to drugs, but mostly for people who had mental problems to begin with. I've known at least one person who had a history of mental illness in his family, and so should probably have known better than to start fucking around with crystal meth, but he did, and subsequently flipped right off the deep end and never came back. The speed wasn't the cause of his mental problems, but if there was a crack in his brain before, the drugs chiselled it wide open.
Breakfast served all day!
Your ignorance is resoundingly displayed by your invocation of agoraphobia. Bringing up phobias in a discussion about schizophrenia is like sharing your thoughts on bandaids with a guy who's just had an arm ripped off.
The mind is a complex thing. The treatment of it continues to evolve. Modern treatment is not perfect, but to imply that it is unnecessary, as you have just done, is callous and irresponsible.
Homosexuality was in the DSM as a treatable psychological disorder up till 1973.
But for queer politics, it still would be. Anthony Perkins was successfully treated for his homosexual tendencies. No telling now many homosexuals would be successfully treated, but for the fact that the "gay lobby" has guaranteed that homosexuality is going to be treated as a "alternate lifestyle", rather than an illness. Will they remove pedophilia from the DSM next?
dude, i'm really sorry. Thank you for sharing. As someone who has been diagnosed as having both general anxiety disorder and bipolar disorder, and having been dumped by a girl who said she still loves me, but just can't be with me, your post has really helped me see her side of it.
I call bullshit - I'm pretty positive you're making those numbers up on the spot. This is an article [apa.org] about the efficacy of drugs versus therapy.
The article addresses only unipolar depression, where "talking" and pharmacological therapy are about equally effective. this is not the case for schizophrenia.
May I add, self-diagnosis and treatment in general are severely contraindicated for all serious mental illnesses. I know doctors who have recomended marijuana for severe depression. For SOME people, it helps. Others, it fucks up even worse.
Mood and consciousness altering drugs are the only drugs commonly prescribed for mental illness, by its very nature. Ask the average joe to name an herb that helps with depression, they might say St. John's Wart. Ask an herbalist, they'll tell you St. John's Wart should never be taken longer than a month and causes severe sun-sensativity. They might recommend Skullcap or Black Cohosh or some other herb or combination of herbs, based on their professional opinion of your overall condition. A psychiatrist will do much the same, substituting, say, Prozac or Wellbutrin. Both will monitor your condition, looking for known side effects and contraindications as treatment progresses, and modify the dose or change the medicine as necesary.
Rather than playing around with self dignosis and treatment, especially when both your condition and the drugs you are taking to treat it alter your consciousness and ability to judge the effects, it is imperative that you get outside help.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
I recently discoffered that my girlfriend has some form off Schizofrenia. I always noticed that she really could have big moodswitches and had some serious problems with herself. But I really started to worry when she became psychotic one night. She had the idea that people where chasing her. It was really frightning, like I was was playing in a bad movie. She was allready very stressed for some time and behaving more distant (less affection). But when I started to search the internet for the things I had seen I stuck on some sites about schizofrenia, to my horror the picture (all the things that can point to schzofrenia) fitted to well. Allthough all this knolledge didn't help me a bit. I had come to close to her. I wanted her to get some professional help, but she didn't want to see that there was anything wrong with here. It all resulted with the result that she broke up with me after 11 months - she coudn't manage a relationship anymore - thats what she said to me. In that same week she was still making plans for our future and told me nummerous times how very very much she loved me!! Six weeks passed by since then. I have seen her once since, wich wasn't planned. But the person I knew eleven months wasn't the person I ran into. The girl I know is completely gone. Her face expresions, her voice, her behaviour all is different. I loved her to death, but know I dont know anymore who I have loved. It seems like the person I loved doesn't exist anymore. I also discoffered that her story to everyone is quitte different from what actually happened. I find it very hard to hear that she blames me quitte a bit for things and has moved on like I never have exist! Not really a story that is helpfull. But it has tortured me for the last weeks. Goodluck with your sister!
You cannot help her, no matter how much you may wish to, if she will not first help herself. She does that by taking her meds, seeing the doctor, and going to the therapist.
When things go wonky, and they will, she has to go get help. Right then.
The truth hurts, but it's required. Anyone that is more than a passing friend should be told about it (by HER, not YOU) and asked to say something to her if things look "odd".
Never, ever lie to her. Ever. For any reason, about any thing. You can say, "I don't want to say.", but NEVER lie. If you are unsure, make sure she knows you are unsure.
When you can see the "voices" talking, talk to her. Doesn't much matter about what, but don't let the voices go on unchallanged. Tell her to tell the voices to go away, or what ever.
Isolating, or "decompensating", is a danger signal. Don't let her nest about. Get her out and about.
When you see danger signals, tell her.
Always care, but be prepared to refuse to enable her.
Find and join a support group. You'll need it. So will she.
Really, you will have to find your own balance with her. No one here, including people that have this problem, will be able to give you all the right advice. I was married for almost 20 years to my best friend in life. When she got ill, I hung on for another 4 years or so. She would stop taking her meds, go on a "trip" to the ends of the earth, leave the kids at the mall or somewhere, and run up credit card bills that were more than I made in a year with nothing to show for it. She would lose her car, I'd buy another. She'd abandon her clothes, keeping only what she had on her back, I'd buy more. The hospital bills were something fearsome.
After many, many hospitizlations for her, I had to give up, file for divorce, and cut all ties to save my own sanity, life, and living. Suicide was a frequent thought during that bleek, dark, and depressed time. (Thank God for kids, I think it was the only reason I didn't do it.) The week before I filed for divorce it hit me; I can't fix this problem, nothing I do will make it better. I did nothing to cause the problem, nor did she. I have to let go. It is hard, painful, and depressing, but one thing still holds true. You can't help someone else if you can't help yourself first.
Now go find that support group.
If you play along with her delusion, you are reinforcing it, which can make her condition worse. She may be voicing her delusions as statements, but she may be doing so to seek input from you without actually asking. So, when she says "The FBI planted invisible video cameras in the tree outside my window to spy on me," what she may mean is "Do you think it would be reasonable to believe that the FBI planted invisible video cameras in the tree outside my window to spy on me?" By playing along, you're giving your approval to the delusion, which may lead her to believe more firmly in such things. So, I wouldn't recommend that route.
There's no way for you to win - you can't just talk her out of her beliefs instantly - but what you can do is observe facts without offering judgment. So, if she says "The FBI planted invisible video cameras in the tree outside my window to spy on me", sasying "no they didn't" won't help, but if you said something more factual and less confrontational like "Hmm. I haven't seen anyone in your trees, and I think it would be awfully difficult to make a camera invisible. Do you think perhaps you might be mistaken?" she might at least think about it, even if what immediately comes out of her mouth is a refutation of what you said.
Alternatively, you could simply state your feelings without disagreeing directly - "Gee, that sounds odd."I try to stay very far away from such people, but then, I've already had my fair share of dealing with the mentally ill in my life.
I would guess that is how we wound up with religion. Its kind of odd that most great religious leaders, founders, and followers could easily fit the schizophrenic mold in modern society. Actually, the really "gifted" scientific and religious gurus seem to be on that borderline threshold to the point of falling over the edge. Staying up working on a scientific theory for 4 days staight with hardly no sleep or food; fasting and self-denial in the name of a religious experience. These are hardly "normal" behaviors. They are examples of "focused" mania. Its the "uncontrolled" mania that places the label of "psychosis" on an indiviual. Perhaps it is just genius that has no direction.
I suggest you read the medical literature. Specifically, you should read Lancet, the New England Journal of Medecine, the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, and the Journal of Neurochemistry.
Yes, there are plenty of nuts on the Internet suggesting a link between aspartame and cancer, alzheimers, "Gulf War Syndrome", etc.. I'm not one of them.
Here are some reputable journal cites.
I'd be happy to examine any contradictory peer reviewed journal published papers you care to cite in return.
Thanks.
Aspartame. Review of safety issues. Council on Scientific Affairs. Journal of the American Medical Association. Vol. 254 No. 3, July 19, 1985
Department of Health and Human Services. Quarterly Report on Adverse Reactions Associated with Aspartame Ingestion. DHHS, Washington, DC, Oct. 1, 1986.
Johns, D. R. Migraine provoked by aspartame. N. Engl. J. Med. 315-456 (1986)
Drake, M.E. Panic attacks and excessive aspartame ingestion. Lancetii: 631 (1986)
Yokogoshi, H., Roberts, C. H., Caballero, B., and Wurtman, R.J. Effects of aspartame and glucose administration on brain and plasma levels of large neutral amino acids and brain 5-hydroxyindoles. Am. J. Clin. Nutr. 40: 1-7 (1984).
Fernstrom, J. D., Fernstrom, M. H., and Gillis, M. A. Acute Effects of aspartame on large neutral amino acids and monoamines in rat brain. Life Sci. 32: 1651-1658 (1983).
Stegink, L. D., Filer, L. J., Jr., Baker, G. L., and McDonnell, J. E. Effect of an abuse dose of aspartame upon plasma and erythrocyte levels of amino acids in phenylketonuric heterozygous and normal adults. J. Nutr. 110: 2216-2224 (1980).
Fernstrom, J. D., and Faller, D. V. Neutral amino acids in the brain: Changes in response to food ingestion. J. Neurochem. 30: 1531-1538 (1978)
Oldendorf, W. H. Brain uptake of radiolabeled amino acids, amines, and hexoses after arterial injection. Am. J. Physiol. 221:1629-1639 (1971).
Milner, J. D., Irie, K., and Wurtman, R. J. Effects of phenylalanine on the release of endogenous dopamine from rat striatal slices. J. Neurochem. 47: 1444-1448 (1986).
Pinto, J. M. B., and Maher, T. J. Aspartame administration potentiates pentylenetetrazole- and fluorothyl-induced seizures in mice. Neuropharmacology, in press.
-- Terry
I have schizophrenia which was diagnossed in 1997, actually schizoaffective which is schizophrenia and bypolar mixed together. Family members have told me that the symptons date back to when I was a child and especially mannifested when I got into my teens with some pretty close calls when it came to maintaining my life. I'm 24 now, the decease is still running strong but I am currently hacking my way through University and living on my own. The reason for my success would be caring family and having a strong support network to fall on when I get sick. My family has found going to schizophrenic society meetings benificial and taking on a role there. I do not personally go to the meetings, though my parents feel much better after these meetings and overall are a positive experience for them. Self Mutalation has been a major problem for myself, actually I burned myself just three days ago. I just take things one day at a time, think positive, and I mean positive. Anything that bothers me I focus on a positive aspect of it, and if there is no aparent positive then I make one. This focusing on positive points really helps, when I start to fall into a mood I often see it coming and try to get out of it, often successfully through medication. Appologies for writing so much, but I will end with my overall thesis that: find positive points to everything focus on those positive things if falling try meditating be careful in the situations you put yourself in if you have a prevailing issue that set's you off then seek councilling for it to avoid future mishaps take your meds! do hourly assesments on the state of your mind; or whatever timiing you think would be good, this is very valuable as you can catch problems before they start. I say this as a treated schizophrenic that is fairly functional 80% of the time, with prevailing things that I know are not real but cannot handle. Just remember when talking to someone with schizophrenia that they do not always see reality, things may be different for what they see, as much as I tell myself, you cannot read my mind, but when I'm talking to people I'm constantly censoring my thoughts as most of the time I think that the person I'm talking to is reading my thoughts, that's just one example, and I am 7 years treated with working medication, it's a long battle, be strong, do not be a stastitic.
my sister was diagnosed with schizophrenia 13 years ago. She's now 32 (i'm 29). It has been a tough ride, lots of ups and downs. The problem we are dealing with is the incompetency of the state system and it's doctors, couple with the fact that one medication may work, then the body/brain gets used to it, and it is no longer effective.
Keep records of what has been tried and what hasn't worked and what did work, because you will undoubtedly be dealing with this illness for a long time. It helps to give the new doctors a history, so they don't start from square one again.
she is doing well now on her current medication (I wish i knew what it was besides Zyprexa), but occassionally she still gets these crazy ideas, like the other day she told me a childhood friend of hers is going to buy her a house. Someone she hasn't seen or spoke with in at least 10 years. I told her the only way she was getting a house is if mom and dad buy it, or if i become rich and buy her one. She did start to realize the absurdity of her thoughts, which is a good sign, because for a long time there, she couldn't distinguish between reality and abnormal thoughts in her head.
The worst time for her was when she was hearing voices. Hopefully, your sister is young, and they can get her on the right medications before things start to deteriorate. Also, if she's on a good medical plan now (like Kaiser), DON'T EVER LEAVE IT - find a way to pay the insurance bill. she will never be accepted anywhere again, and be subject to the state healthcare which sucks.
You sound like you come from a good family, this is very important to be active and supportive in her treatment. Join NAMI (National Alliance for the Mentally Ill), and take part in their local meetings. They usually have expert doctors speak who know the latest developments with the medications. A lot of the doctors who are out there don't know shit from shinola. Sometimes you have to push them in a certain direction.
I have been looking for some kind of SETI/FOLDING @ HOME type distributed computing projects which address schizophrenia and/or other mental illnesses I can take part in, so far I haven't found any.
They are making great strides in brain research. Just in the last 20 years, they've come a long way. The medication will only get better and better. SO there is hope.
Make sure the doctor tapers off a medication when ending one, and introducing a new one. We had a problem last year where the doctor outright stopped one of her medications one day, while introducing Abilify (Abilify is the latest med, that is normally supposed to yield amazing results) (Geodon is another good one), and it has taken over a year for her to recover from this stupid mistake by the doctor.
I also have been diagnosed by my doctor as schizophrenia when I experience somewhat similar symptoms of depression and paranoia (without the hallucinations). I'm taking a small dosage of Geodon which they claim has kept me in a healthy state of mind for the last year or two. I tried to talk with my phsyciatrist about whether or not I was really schizophrenia, and if I could go off it. But his response was pretty much once you have it, you are stuck (I think he's more concerned legally than anything). They are usually pretty scared to remove any medication if there's nothing apparently wrong. I was mainly concerned with the diagnose, because now i'm stuck paying the medical bill. I can't take the company plan, because if i loose my job, i will never get on another plan again, unless it's with a company. I still concider myself lucky to be with Kaiser. They are great.
If you want to talk further, send me an email:
motiv8x@yahoo.com