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Xerox Patent Ruled Invalid, palmOne Exonerated

An anonymous reader writes "palmOne has issued a press release, that a court has found that the patent that Xerox was using to sue Palm for its character entry method, and was developed in house, didn't infringe because the patent was invalid." The case was first brought against 3Com Corporation back in 1997 before they spun off the Palm brand name.

37 of 154 comments (clear)

  1. Bad Patent Error by mfh · · Score: 5, Funny

    Error! Your patent is invalid. Press the any key.

    --
    The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
    1. Re:Bad Patent Error by txviking · · Score: 5, Funny

      1 invalid patent down .... n invalid patents to go

  2. Does this mean Graffiti will make a return? by Insideo · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I can't stand Graffiti 2... maybe its just because I spent so long using the original Graffiti, but it would make my day if it came back.

    1. Re:Does this mean Graffiti will make a return? by los+furtive · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Hear hear! I've been going nuts with my Tungsten E, having owned a Palm IIIe for the longest time before. Even after five months I still make the same mistakes. I refuse to be forced to learn yet another alphabet.

      --

      I'm a writer, a poet, a genius, I know it. I don't buy software, I grow it.

    2. Re:Does this mean Graffiti will make a return? by jomas1 · · Score: 5, Informative

      You can probably put Graffiti 1 on your Graffiti 2 Palm device. See this link for one method:

      http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_stor y.asp?ID=5830

    3. Re:Does this mean Graffiti will make a return? by pauljlucas · · Score: 4, Interesting
      You either love Graffiti 2 or hate it. I too used Graffiti for along time. I always thought some characters were weird, and I never managed to make my letter 'e's such that they'd be recognized as 'e's the first try.

      It took me only about a week to switch my brain to using Graffiti 2, but I like it much better. All of the alphabeting characters can be written "normally" and in lower-case. (Grafitti was a weird mix of upper- and lower-case.)

      My only complaint about Graffiti 2 is that the "puntuation shift" is too involved what with the leading and trailing upstroke. But overall, I like Graffiti 2 much better.

      --
      If you reply, do so only to what I explicitly wrote. If I didn't write it, don't assume or infer it.
    4. Re:Does this mean Graffiti will make a return? by jrockway · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's sites like those that make me happy that I spend most of my time on slashdot. Users of those sites seem to always be afraid of doing something illegal. Hence, someone posts an article on how to transfer a file you own to a device you own and everyone cries about how illegal this is and how the host site is going to be sued to death etc. Then someone replies with a comment that says where to get a file (GASP!! HOW ILLEGAL!!!!) and some goody-two-shoes replies with "admin, please delete all links!!!! :( :( :(" and the whole thread is deleted and everyone who posted banned.

      Once, I was participating in a discussion about the CF driver for NX70 Clies and I said something like "If it's too expensive, warez it." I was banned from loading the site!!! Rather than refuting my argument, they just deleted it. Again, when Decuma came out, someone posted a link to a "warez" version. Any reference to that or the fact that the thread ever existed got you banned. What a bunch of fucking babies.

      So anyway, thank you slashdot, for not deleting posts. I'm glad that people are forced to reply and think about their actions rather than just delete anything they don't like.

      --
      My other car is first.
  3. Good news / bad news by jbellis · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The good news, I guess, is that a dumb patent got invalidated. The bad news is, it took 7 years. How many small companies could keep up a legal battle that long?

    1. Re:Good news / bad news by dereklam · · Score: 5, Interesting
      The good news, I guess, is that a dumb patent got invalidated.

      I'm sorry, what's dumb about this patent?

      My understanding of the algorithm is that Xerox devides the Graffiti area into 9 ``blocks.'' The recognition algorithm tracks which block the stylus starts in, the end block, and the blocks through which the stylus travels. The recognition is fast and accurate, because each letter is simply an encoding of (start, end, intermediate blocks).

      This algorithm is neither dumb nor obvious. Palm copied PARC's Graffiti alphabet because the algorithm was so elegant.

      Have you tried Graffiti 2? It's slower and less accurate.

    2. Re:Good news / bad news by MartinG · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This algorithm is neither dumb nor obvious

      It's not "dumb" maybe.

      But obvious? The trouble is that to one not skilled in the art, everything seems non obvious.

      A good test for obviousness is:

      Can you think of a more obvious method?

      --
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    3. Re:Good news / bad news by LnxAddct · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That algorithm is fairly obvious. Similar algorithms are used all the time in computer science. I even wrote one about 3 years ago, without ever being told anything about such algorithms. If you think about the problem at hand, the solution makes sense. I could have easily made a commercial product using something similar with no knowledge of Xerox's patent. Now if Xerox's source code was stolen and copied, that would be one issue, but simply using an idea and then making it yourself with your own source code, there should be nothing wrong with that. I didn't RTFA but the my understanding is that they didn't steal the source code. Ideas shouldn't be patentable.
      Regards,
      Steve

    4. Re:Good news / bad news by Dun+Malg · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I'm sorry, what's dumb about this patent?

      My understanding of the algorithm is that Xerox devides the Graffiti area into 9 ``blocks.'' The recognition algorithm tracks which block the stylus starts in, the end block, and the blocks through which the stylus travels. The recognition is fast and accurate, because each letter is simply an encoding of (start, end, intermediate blocks).

      This algorithm is neither dumb nor obvious.

      It's obvious, e.g. the graffiti area can discern the position of the stylus with a resolution of, say, 45 along the vertical axis and 90 horizontally. Now, trying to come up with a quick, low processing requirement method of mapping characters leads directly to the question of "how fine a resolution do we need to track?" This then leads to the answer, "if we come up with our own simple alphabet, we can cut it down to as low as a three by three grid". It may not be obvious to YOU, but anyone trying to solve the problem of handwriting recognition would think of it based on the first rule of solving ANY problem: SIMPLIFY.

      The reason graffiti2 sucks so badly is that they were forced to use a decoding method that was neither simple nor elegant, as Xerox claimed a patent on the obvious solution to the problem.

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
  4. Prior Art by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    The original patent was assigned to a Sumerian scribe. I guess any license fees should go to Iraq.

  5. The ancient family curse! by AndroidCat · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Man, some of these lawsuits get handed down through the generations (computer time). I bet 3Com/Palm/palmOne is glad to see the end of this. In each year's company report, they had to keeping listing it in the Oh Yeah, We're Being Sued section.

    --
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  6. Reuters story by ozric99 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Internetnews has this take on the story.

  7. Ttis i2 qrent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    ! st1l. hann/t gof us3d to grattit! Z yet,

  8. Graffiti by someguy456 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Now what is Palm doing to do about Graffiti?

    They had previously let go of Graffiti and developed their own Graffitti2. and made everyone learn new keystrokes. If they go back now, everyone who learned Graffiti2 is not going to be happy However, I'd be willing to bet that not everyone has upgraded, and many, if not most, are still using Graffiti1. Maybe they will include both, and have the user decide?

    1. Re:Graffiti by magsilva · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They could offer both options, Graffiti and Graffiti2, so you could select the one that best fit you. I'd love that, Graffiti works much better for me.

    2. Re:Graffiti by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 4, Insightful
      If they're smart, they'd piss off that small group of people who like Grafitti 2 and go back to G1. I always hear the same thing: G2 is easier to learn for people who've never used a PDA, but G1 only takes a little longer and is much faster and more accurate for the rest of the life of your device.

      I will not buy another G2 Palm. Right now, there are viable options (such as TealScript) to give owners of newer units G1 capability, but as with any closed source application and OS combination, it will only continue to work for as long as it's updated to work with new systems. As soon a TealPoint gets tired of supporting it, the product dies, and I lose the possibility of updating to newer hardware and actually being able to use it.

      I've tried and tried to get used to G2, but I just can't. If Palm re-adopts G1, I will continue to buy their devices. If they don't, I'll go back to using a DayRunner (which accepts any handwriting style and has a place to put my checkbook).

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    3. Re:Graffiti by DdJ · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I had Graffiti when it was a separate product for Apple's Newton and General Magic's Magic Cap systems. I had a Palm III, Visor DX, and Visor Pro, running PalmOS. Now I've got a Palm Tungsten T3.

      The Tungsten T3 ships with Graffiti 2. It's IMHO awful.

      Here's an example of how: The letter "t" is done by a vertical top-to-bottom stroke followed by a horizontal left-to-right stroke. You can do them in either order. The letter L is done by a vertical top-to-bottom stroke. A space is done by a horizontal left-to-right stroke. What happens when you want to begin or end a word with the letter L? Bad things. There are habits you can learn to avoid problems, but it's much more difficult (for me) than Graffiti 1 was.

      There's a set of files you can install on a Tungsten T3 or other Graffiti 2 handheld to make it start using Graffiti 1. I've got it installed. It makes the system usable for me.

      Now, some of the Graffiti 2 patterns are actually better than Graffiti 1. For example, I can more reliably write a "G" with Graffiti 2 than with Graffiti 1. And some symbols were entered by writing something other than numbers in the numeric area, which was faster than the normal "dot prefix" method from Graffiti 1, and wasn't unreliable or aggravating.

      Having a global preference to switch between Graffiti 1 and Graffiti 2 would be a good thing. It's even what the Newton was doing near the end there -- there were multiple recognition systems and you could switch between them.

      But even better would be if it could be done on a character-by-character basis. For each letter, give me a list of strokes and let me put checkboxes next to the ones I want to enable.

    4. Re:Graffiti by cvd6262 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Personally, I like the way other systems, including my Sharp Zaurus, do handwriting input. First, they offer several single or multiple stroke inputs for each letter, then they give you the option on making you own.

      The Zaurus even has a utility that lets you draw a stroke and it will tell you the three characters it most resembles, and the percentage of ressemblance. I used to think the keyboard on the Zaurus was the best input method, but I find a customized hand writing input just as effective.

      --

      I'd rather have someone respond than be modded up.

  9. Invalid Invalid Invalid by MajorDick · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It seem to me more and more patents are being ruled as invalid, If this is indeed the case why are they being assigned in the first place ?

    When Edison patented many of his inventions they were as new and as alien as anything could be. Patent examination on these must have been pretty easy, even considering the entire process was manual.

    I wonder how many patents would stand up to a further examination.

    This deluge of bogus patents would seem to me to effect even the valid ones. If I tommorow came up with say a TRUE Anti-Gravity machine it would seem that everyone and their brother would try to get it invalidated for their own use. And I'm sore some people have patented Anti-Gravity machine that dont actually work, would these invalidate a patent that did actually work ?

    I dont belive patents are bad, quite to the contrary I belive them neccesary, I think its their enforcment and their use in bullying that is wrong. If I come up with a whole new concept I would sure as hell want it protected. But as I said before the deluge of bogus patents would seem to put the whole process in question

    1. Re:Invalid Invalid Invalid by miffo.swe · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Many of the parents wore just not possible before someone came up with a easy way to produce and store electricity. Many of the "inventors" wasnt the ones coming up with the ideas, just the first to patent them. Take Marconi as a nice example of how "good" patents worked back then.

      Patents have always been a mess and i dont think any groundbreaking inventions can be said to stem from the patenting system. Military has been the biggest driving force behind new inventions.

      The older the better or just selective history?

      --
      HTTP/1.1 400
    2. Re:Invalid Invalid Invalid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Ah yes, Marconi, the guy who didn't invent the radio. His patent has failed to win against Nickola Teslas prior art 3 times in the courts. (It hasn't won against Tesla once that I know of.)

      Seems that Teslas paper on wireless telography was published in Italy (and in Italian) 3 years prior to Marconi's device. (It was published in several European countries in native languages.)

      Tesla even demonstrated the application of wireless telography at a worlds fair by using it to make a light go on/off. Though he didn't try morse code with it, or if he did, none of the fairgoers watching it noted it as such. (They probably couldn't read morse code if you hit them upside the head with a morse signal manual.)

      Patents have been a screwy thing since a week after they started, maybe before. The only real difference is the level of stupidity of the new patent laws and examiners.... (I still think it's total BS that companies can patent something everyone knows they didn't create, and we have prior art going back thousands of years at least. Aka, Human DNA.) (Oh well, it's not as bad as US Copyright laws have gotten in a number of ways. yet...)

    3. Re:Invalid Invalid Invalid by RickHunter · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It seem to me more and more patents are being ruled as invalid, If this is indeed the case why are they being assigned in the first place ?

      Its simple. The guidelines the patent office works with say that they are to assume a patent is valid unless clear evidence to the contrary is presented. If its invalid, the courts will sort it out. This maximizes their revenue, which is based on patents approved.

      Juries in patent cases, OTOH, are (or possibly were) given guidelines telling them to, if there was any doubt, assume that the patent was valid. As if it was invalid, the patent office wouldn't have granted it, right? This is why the vast majority of bogus patent challenges go to the patent-holder in the first round and the inventor (*) on appeal.

      (*) - Inventor as the person who actually designed and built the device is almost never the patent-holder these days.

    4. Re:Invalid Invalid Invalid by sjames · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'll bet that if the USPTO was made liable for the legal costs of successfully invalidating a patent, they'd be a LOT more careful about granting bad patents.

  10. Dear god.. by Curtman · · Score: 5, Funny

    The summary judgment ruling will result in the dismissal of a lawsuit brought by Xerox in 1997 against Palm, Inc.

    1997?! Thats 7 damn years ago. Please God, don't let this SCO thing go on that long. Finish them off with a bolt of lightning right now.

    1. Re:Dear god.. by k98sven · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Thats 7 damn years ago. Please God, don't let this SCO thing go on that long. Finish them off with a bolt of lightning right now.

      That bolt just struck. IBM requested Summary Judgement this week. If it's granted, Linux will be in the clear, and IBM will have a field day with some of their Lanham-act counterclaims.

      Not to mention the DaimlerChrysler and AutoZone cases will fall like the houses of cards that they are. Red Hat should have an easy time with their case. And the Novell case is already not-unlikely to be dismissed.

      The question is, who is going to go on propping up SCO once Linux is out of the picture, and there's just a Kamikaze attack on IBM, hardly likely to leave a dent, left.

  11. Re:Graffiti2 to Graffiti1 fix? by Trongy · · Score: 5, Informative
    Is there a fix for devices like the Clie to return it to using the original Graffiti pen strokes?

    Yes there is a way. You have to get the Graffiti1 files from a Palm OS 5 device such as the Palm Tungsten T.

    This article explains how.

    The letter i in Graffiti2 is really anoying, also k and t are a pain. Making x a two stroke character is acceptable only because it occurs so infrequently in English.

  12. Howto: Replace Graffiti 2 with Original Graffiti by jomas1 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Don't know how to make my link work.

    Here is the meat of the graffiti switch article from Palminfocenter if you want to use graffiti 1 instead of graffiti 2:

    Step 1
    Use a handheld that has the original Graffiti system installed , Use a handheld file manager, such as FileZ, to locate the following files (You will need to check the ROM box, as the files are stored in the device ROM):

    Graffiti Library.prc, size: 30k, creator: grft
    Graffiti Library_enUS.prc, size 22k, creator: grft

    Step 2
    Beam or copy the above 2 files to the target handheld you want to install original Graffiti on.

    Step 3
    Preform a soft reset (simply press the devices reset pin), and you're set to start enjoying original Graffiti again.

    PIC tested this procedure with a Tungsten T and were able to successfully install Graffiti over Graffiti 2 on a Tungsten T2, Zire 71, Tungsten C and a Sony Clie NX80V. Other models that run Palm OS 5 should also be compatible. Even after the replacement the write anywhere on screen feature of Palm OS 5.2 still function as normal, even on the Tungsten C. The on-screen Graffiti reference also reverts back to the original guide.

  13. What is it with Xerox ... by TheGavster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It seems that a lot of really nifty things (the mouse, the desktop, and apparently Graffiti) were developed at Xerox, and never produced. Then someone else says "wow, that's stunning" and makes millions off of it. Its not like Xerox lacks the resources to go after these things, more like the ambition. It seems like a perfect case of "we want a monopoly on this, not because we have any intention of even trying to produce it" patents, as opposed to the "I've got this cool idea, but my lottery investment strategy has yet to pay off, would someone like to license it" patents.

    --
    "Because Science" is one step from "Because old book". Try "Because of my experiment testing my falsifiable assertion".
    1. Re:What is it with Xerox ... by pauljlucas · · Score: 3, Insightful
      It seems that a lot of really nifty things ... were developed at Xerox, and never produced.
      I've heard similar things about IBM Research. While they've not patented everything they've invented, they've invented lots of stuff. But a lot of that stuff never made it to market as products.

      My theory is that this sort of thing tends to happen with large companies that have research divisions. (A notable exception is AT&T which I'll get back to in a bit.) My theory as to why this happens is that management either doesn't "get it" for a lot of the things developed, or is too afraid to take action.

      For the "failure to 'get it'" part, they fail to see how many inventions, as novel as they may be, will be a success in the marketplace. Management in large companies tends to be very short-sighted and often bad predictors of where the market will go.

      For the "too afraid" part, a lot of managers like to keep the status quo because it means low-risk both for the company as a whole and the own careers. No manager wants to sign off on a new product only to have it fail miserably in the market.

      There needs to be a few managers with both vision and guts. If they either sufficiently high-up in the company or have enough convincing power, new products come to market. Sometimes what happens, however, is that they get disgusted with their company's inaction and quit to form start-ups.

      As for AT&T, the reason they've been an exception is because, back in the good old days before divestiture, their research division was focused on doing pure research without any concern for bringing their research to market. They patented lots of things. Indeed, the Bell Labs motto was, "A patent a day," and it was pretty much accurate. However, AT&T never bothered to enforce its patents or sue anybody back then and pretty much gave away their inventions. Why? Because they viewed it as "giving something back" for being allowed to be the benevolent monopoly for the phone company. Of course once divestiture happened, all that changed. It's kind of sad, really.

      --
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  14. Use in Open Source projects by sfraggle · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Does this mean it would now also be possible to develop an Open Source version of graffiti and use it on Linux-based palmtops for free?

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    1. Re:Use in Open Source projects by julesh · · Score: 3, Informative

      Unless Palm have their own patents on it, I guess so.

      The Xerox patent was on "unistrokes", a system that was _very_ similar to Graffiti, but is a little simpler to implement, faster to use, and harder to learn.

      Unistroke uses only three types of stroke, a straight line, a curve through 90 degrees and a curve that crosses back over itself, which makes the recognition much easier than graffiti. The system was designed to be quick to use: common sequences of letters alternate in direction, so that you have to reposition your pen less frequently. The drawback is that these two factors mean that a lot of the strokes are non-obvious, bearing little or no relationship to the letter they encode.

  15. For those who don't know... by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) · · Score: 3, Informative

    ...here is how bad Graffiti 2 is. Why you write 't' the first stroke is an 'i'. When you make the horizontal stroke it sends a 'backspace' followed by a 't' to correct the incorrect 'i'. You can imagine how many applications are messed up by this. But it's worse: 'i' followed by a space (a horizontal stroke) is a 't'. So you have to wait between the 'i' and 'space' to make sure it doesn't come out as 't'. Please, please, pretty please, Palm bring back Graffiti 1. Graffiti 2 is like phoning people by rolling dice and pressing a button every time a digit you want comes up.

    --
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    1. Re:For those who don't know... by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 3, Informative
      As a stronger example, consider that Palm applications typically allow a lot of penstroke shortcuts to menu commands. You start the shortcut by writing a "/", then the associated letter. For example, the "delete" command often has a shortcut of "/d".

      Now, consider what the poster said about how the letter "t" is generated (except that the first stroke is really a "l" and not an "i"; you write an "i" by drawing an "l" and then dotting it). If your application uses "/t" as a shortcut, that shortcut cannot be written, since the menu-shortcut function accepts the first penstroke of the "t" as an "l" and processes it before you can cross the "t". No matter how fast you try to write "/t", it always gets interpreted as "/l <space>". Sucks to be you if "t" is the shortcut for "take a backup", and "l" is the shortcut for "lose this immediately".

      Did I mention yet in this post that I hate Grafitti 2? I didn't? Oh, then: I hate Grafitti 2.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
  16. Obvious, and prior art too by steveha · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This algorithm is neither dumb nor obvious.

    The "dumb" part is that such an obvious algorithm with prior art was granted a patent.

    Palm copied PARC's Graffiti alphabet because the algorithm was so elegant.

    Er, no.

    Graffiti was invented by Palm. Xerox was developing Unistrokes around the same time, and giving lectures about it, and generally not keeping it a secret.

    The patent is not specifically about Graffiti. Xerox basically patented the whole idea of a handwriting recognition alphabet where each letter is a single stroke. And that idea is obvious.

    How can I claim it's obvious? Well, think about it. What's the #1 problem in character recognition on a PDA? Figuring out which stroke is part of which letter. Did the user want to write a 't', or did he want to write an 'i' followed by a '-'? Gee, life is so much simpler with the letters like 'c', 'z', 'o', etc., where there is just one stroke. Hang on... what if all letters were just one stroke? Then we don't need to figure out which stroke is part of which letter!

    Entirely because of the Xerox lawsuit, Palm rolled out Graffiti 2. It's major difference from Graffiti is... not every letter is one stroke. Some are two strokes. It's dumb that they had to do that; there is zero benefit to the consumer here.

    According to the PalmOne press release, the appeals judge ruled that a) this idea is obvious, b) there was prior art, so therefore c) the patent is not valid and PalmOne doesn't have to pay Xerox.

    steveha

    --
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