Circuit Boards + Soldering Iron == Terrorist?

Search and Seizure asks: "This week, the local police contacted one of my co-workers and informed him that they had been contacted by the FBI who requested that they investigate his apartment. According to the police, while his apartment repair staff were checking his smoke alarm, they had noticed suspicious looking items in his kitchen and had called the FBI because they suspected that he might be a terrorist. What do you do when your landlord suspects that you might be a terrorist and reports you to the FBI?" If the law comes a-knocking, always remember that you can politely ask for a warrant. "The police officer went on to explain that my co-worker had two choices:

1) Let the local police take a look and explain what the 'suspicious' items were for.
2) Don't let the local police in. The police will let the FBI know, and they will use 'Homeland Security' to come in and do a full search.

He opted for the less drastic choice, and showed the officer the digital camera guts, his in-progress circuitry to take automatic pictures, the tethered balloon that he was going to hook them up to so he could take overhead pictures, and the beer keg that he used to store his beer.

The police officer accepted his explanations and it appears to have turned out okay, but the whole situation is a little disturbing.

What rights do we have to experiment and create in this age of paranoia?"

Comments

This is the problem

[Apreche]

People have no balls. We all know this homeland security BS is totally unconstitutional, its not even a question. Here's what I would have done in the guys situation.

1) I would have taken advantage of my rights to the fullest extent forcing them to use the patriot act.

2) Gone to court eventually and claimed that the patriot act was unconstitutional.

3) Next year or the year after I would be in the supreme court with my lawyer, it would be US vs. Me and the patriot act would be declared unconstitutional making the world a better place for everybody.

Sure it would be a pain in the ass. Sure it would be a lot more work than that. And sure it would probably "ruin" my life. But this stuff wont go away on its own. Somebody has to fight it. I'm just waiting for my chance. The rest of the people around are all wusses who wont sacrifice anything for the common good. I can't wait until the day big brother comes to get me. I want to have a digital camera take a picture of the looks on their faces when I give them the double deuce.

Re:This is the problem

[amarodeeps]

Maybe it's more complex than that. Maybe the people their targetting are generally selectively chosen based on race and religion. Maybe the people being targetted are being detained without their rights being recognized. Maybe these are people who are never getting into the position where they CAN fight it all the way to the supreme court. Maybe their citizenship is dubious or new, maybe their interaction with the larger mainstream society is such that they are not yet familiar with the way things can work. Maybe it costs a lot of freaking money to fight it all the way to the supreme court. I don't know, I'm just throwing some possibilities out there--because it seems like what you are talking about is easier said than done.

Re:This is the problem

[rigau]

The USA PATRIOT Act is not unconstitutional. Maybe sections of it are but the whole thing is not. If you were to go to court on an issue revolving around the act more likely than not the courts would rule only on the section that deal with your particular problem not on the whole act. Courts tend to keep their decisions limited in scope and will only rule on the particular facts of the case at hand unlike a legislative body that passes laws that have a much more broad application.

This is of course a generalization. Sometimes courts will decide on more general issues but it is ussualy done when the legislatures have avoided -most of the time on purpose- dealing with the issue themselves.

Re:This is the problem

[secolactico]

Maybe it's more complex than that. Maybe the people their targetting are generally selectively chosen based on race and religion.

You hit the nail right on the head. Maybe the poster's co-worker was muslim, or had features similar to those of middle-eastern origin.

Circuit boards and soldering iron doesn't sound threatening (can't really form a full opinion without hearing all parts), but given today's state of mind, his appearance might have tipped the repairmen's resolve to report him.

Re:This is the problem

[sweetooth]

Most people don't have a clue about circuit boards and soldering irons except what they've seen in some stupid action flick. It is highly plausible that some people would just assume that "there is some really wierd shit going on this apartment look at all these tools and wires and uhm... stuff I better call the FBI this looks like the bomb I saw in ."

Re:This is the problem

[miu]

People have no balls. We all know this homeland security BS is totally unconstitutional, its not even a question. Here's what I would have done in the guys situation.

Are you ready for the storm of hate they will pour down on you?

Are you ready for anything wrong or embarrassing you've ever done to become fodder for the press. Have you ever downloaded porn? Have you ever cheated on your spouse? Do you have any relatives who are mentally ill? Are you non-white? Are you non-Christian? Do you have the money and connections to hire a good lawyer? Can you afford to take the time off work?

Sure standing up to an evil system is exhilarating, but few people could stand up to the kind of microscope the government can put on your entire life, and then deal with the consequences of having the details broadcast. There is no moment of truth - no heroic battle, instead there is a wearing away of your will over a timescale dictated entirely by your enemy.

Re:This is the problem

[stevew]

Only a couple problems with concept.

1) The patriot act won't be found un-constitutional.
2) You probably don't have the funds to afford the lawyer.

Isn't it just easier to tell the cops you are a hobbiest trying to fix his camera and put the matter to bed?

Re:This is the problem

[astar]

Problems with the supreme court are a little more fundamental. You might note that the Nazis had a rule of law. Some of the laws they kept secret, because they were so bad that even the "good" German would be outraged. We are so degenerate that we make equivalent laws public, and few protest. But it was a rule of law. Their law theory came largely from a guy named Carl Schmitt who later went to the United State and was moderately influencial. Some like Rinquist use arguments identical to Schmitt.

When you hear about some case that was decided on a "positive law" theory, you are hearing about something that is indistinguishable from Schmitt theories.

Put another way, there was a fascist architecture and there was fascist music, hmm, see my web site and look at the Wagner article someone submitted. And there was fascist law, justified by a fascist theory of law, and that theory now pretty well dominates the US Supreme Court. And that fits, because the laws we are getting are in prominent occasions fascist laws. You are probably thinking I am thinking about the Patriot act, but what I have most clearly in mind is a civil service reform recently done at the federal level.

The US is "administratively" fascist. What we are missing is a fascist mass movement. And it might be a left movement or a right movement. Then thing will really pop. The dynamics look like this: institutions continue to collapse, economic shocks dominate, people look for solutions and so new institutions come into existence. If there is not a vigorous positive alternative institution coming into being, then the fascist mass movement will take off instead. Do a reality check when oil hits seventy dollars a barrel.

Re:Rights?

[amarodeeps]

Privacy rights however are obviously something completely different, and 'in this age of paranoia', your right to privacy is one of the first victims.

Yes, exactly. And now the government has a record of some of the interesting activity he's been engaging in. Perhaps he's gone in a file somewhere, a separate memo has been sent to some higher up State or Federal organization, he's being catalogued in a database...

I think the thing that really scares the shit out of me is the implicit threat and removal of rights that the police officer put forth. Previously, from what I understand, someone could demand that they see a warrant, a judge would have had to specifically grant that warrant, and some rights were preserved. There were some checks and balances in place. Now, all of a sudden, the executive branch can just say "hey, we need to see your stuff, and if you don't let us do it, we'll get someone else to do it. Sucks to be you." Police state, you're looking more and more similar to what we have...

Hysteria

[hey!]

A coworker was on a plane recently where a aged, somewhat dark skinned Italian man pulled out a rosary and began praying. The young woman across the aisle was obviously distrubed, called the stewardess and had a whispered conversation. The stewardess started coming by and taling to the man asking questions like was he nervous about flying. On the next leg of the flight the flight crew got a burly, surly "steward", who was obviously an air marshal.

In the end, this incident just wasted some public servant's time. Same as the circuit board incident. Unless or until people get good at recognizing what a bomb detonator really looks like, things like this are bound to happen. I'd say a friendly show and tell with a local cop isn't so bad in the scheme of thigns. What I don't know is how muslims manage to live in this country given the climate of hysteria, having to pray five times a day. Imagine coming under suspicion of preparing yourself for a suicide bombing several times every day.

Re:Hysteria

[mcrbids]

In the end, this incident just wasted some public servant's time. Same as the circuit board incident. Unless or until people get good at recognizing what a bomb detonator really looks like, things like this are bound to happen.

Since you are obviously expert in all things bomb-detonator, what does an "average" bomb detonator look like?

Oh... wait! I remember - I saw it in a movie! A "Bomb detonator" is that black box, about 9 inches long, 4 inches wide, and about 2 inches tall, with the big, red lettering on the top that says "Bomb Detonator" on the top of it, and has a few red and white snap wiring terminals on the side, right?

No?

Are you sure?

We live in a modern-day paranoia. We've been abusing the people of the Middle East selfishly for decades in order to satiate our wasteful addiction to crude oil, and now we pay the price of bad karma.

What really sucks is that there are real solutions to our energy needs. Linked is but one example with a total initial cost of about $169 billion, about as much as the $162 billion the most recent Iraq war cost to wage that would almost completely eliminate our dependence on foreign oil and dramatically reduce the Carbon Dioxide production of the United States.

I just hope and pray that someday, we find a leader that will actually lead us towards a better world, because we sure as hell don't have one today.

Re:Hysteria

[AnwerB]

> What I don't know is how muslims manage to live in this country given the climate of hysteria

Well, what I did when the FBI called me and asked me to come in for questioning is call a lawyer.

They called me in the middle of the day at my office, knew everything about me and started asking questions about my brother, family, etc.

They then told me that I could come into their office for questioning... or if more convenient, they would come to my office and question me there.

After asking them what they wanted, they finally told me that with the upcoming war in Iraq (this was about a year ago), they wanted to know if I had any knowledge about weapons of mass destruction (really, I'm not joking). I told them that I was 3 at the time I had left, but they wanted me to come in anyway.

Apparantly, they were just on a fishing trip. So I got a lawyer to find out what this all meant. She called and they immediately said there was no need for me to come in anymore, and they didn't have any specific questions but they would contact me if they could think of any.

Anyway, I've been in the US a while and know my rights as a citizen, but I know it would have terrified some others to be taken in for questioning - they have this way to make you feel that something ominous is about to happen.

P.S. I'm a computer geek, and don't show any terrorist tendencies :) - just in case someone suggests that they had reason to be suspicious.

Re:Hysteria

[Halfbaked Plan]

Aw, comeon. Everybody knows that a bomb detonator is a 555 chip with a really big timing capacitor.

I suppose the cheapos would just use some junk opamp or comparator instead of the 555, but they don't really count!

Well

[mattboston]

If "your friend" hasn't done anything, "he" shouldn't have anything to worry about. BTW, why are all these stories about someone's friend??? Maybe they're really about you and you just won't admit that you're one of the terrorists. Screw the Patriot Act, track down his IP address and arrest him.

Re:Well

[fmaxwell]

If "your friend" hasn't done anything, "he" shouldn't have anything to worry about.

You aren't doing anything illegal when you go into the bathroom to take a dump, so you have nothing to "worry about" if the FBI wants to send agents in to watch you. You aren't doing anything illegal when you dress up like Tinkerbell and prance around your house, so you shouldn't mind Homeland Security agents watching you doing it. If you aren't doing anything illegal, you should not mind the government sending agents over to read your e-mail, rifle through your personal belongings, listen to your phone conversations, and tail you when you drive somewhere.

I recognize the humorous aspect of your post, but that first sentence really summed up a scary, but all-too-commonly-voiced, sentiment about this subject.

The first time I had a fully automatic rifle

[Inoshiro]

.. pointed at me, was when I walked across the Peace Arch crossing from Canada to the US.

The US is a rogue state, with a military police mentality running everything, along with paranoia and hysteria rampant. The terrorists won a long time ago, and all that's happening now is that the US has to live in the bed it's made by not going through resistance to the crazy, right-wing that dominates everything.

If this example shows anything, it's that there needs to be another American revolution, one which breaks up the Union into a set of smaller unions where the federal government isn't so separated from the people as to allow these constant abuses of the original US constitution. I like a strong federal government as much as the next person, but only in the cases where it makes sense (such as actually instituting proper public health care), not in cases where people have their landlord call the fucking FBI on them.

Re:The first time I had a fully automatic rifle

[bergeron76]

there needs to be another American revolution, one which breaks up the Union into a set of smaller unions where the federal government isn't so separated from the people

This is inevitable. The US will segregate itself based on state laws. In fact, it's happening right now. Gay people can wed in some states but not others (at present). As a result, Gay people will tend to 'migrate' to those states that allow it.

On the other side of the coin, but on the same token - States like Utah (which outlaw alcohol), tend to draw more religious right wing people. California (particularly San Fran.) tends to draw progressive people to it; and LA tends to draw plastic/fake people that value their apperance and little more. Florida draws old people seeking serenity, and Vermont draws people looking to go back in time.

Granted there will always be people that aren't happy where they live, however, in general I think that a cultural revolution/migration is taking place now. Within a few generations the separation is going to become much more apparent. The federal government is going to become increasing called into question as it's forced to see-saw among the left and right wings. The power struggle between the left and the right will eventually crumble under its own momentum shifts (picture an amplified wave).

This is, of course, just a theory...

Re:Idiots are our greatest threat

[katdillon]

Vote in November? What the %^%&& is that supposed to do? Neither of the major candidates will oppose the Patriot Act. You could vote Libertarian, who vehemently oppose the Patriot Act, and other intrusions on our rights. My solution: join the Free State Project. We're getting 20,000 liberty lovers together to move to New Hampshire to reduce the government to its constitutional bounds. Local authorities do have the power to reject the Patriot Act, or provisions of it they find intolerable. Look at all the major cities that have done so...my own Dallas being one of them.

Check it out: http://www.freestateproject.org

Kat Dillon

You were crossing a border slappy!

[Syncdata]

I am 26 years old, have lived in the US my entire life, and have never had a firearm of any kind pointed at me. That said, were I crossing a border into another nation, say mexico, there is an understanding that firearms might be present.

As for having the rifle pointed *at* you, I strongly suspect that you are exagerating, or made one of those hilarious jokes that security folk love so much, like "Look out for the bomb in my luggage."

If you're curious why America is so "militant", it's because not too long ago, over 3 thousand people died in an attack that destroyed more commercial space then exists in all of San Francisco. Ask yourself how you might feel if, oh, say, downtown Ottowa was utterly leveled.

I'm no fan of certain clauses of the patriot act, including the allowance for feds to search property without presenting a warrant. But to suggest that there is no reason for this, other than to create a militant police state ignores facts which are fully in evidence.

But I forgot, that I'm not allowed to cite the events of September 11th, because doing so makes me a Jingoist. Curse our surly, greedy, unrefined society!

Re:You were crossing a border slappy!

[dubl-u]

I'm no fan of certain clauses of the patriot act, including the allowance for feds to search property without presenting a warrant. But to suggest that there is no reason for this, other than to create a militant police state ignores facts which are fully in evidence.

Really? A quick quiz then: Which portions of the PATRIOT Act, had they been in force in early 2001, would have prevented the 9/11 attack?

Crossing a border doesn't give anyone the right to

[Inoshiro]

point a loaded weapon at me.

I'm in no way exagerating. I was walking across the grass field under the peace arch with my then girlfriend. We were travelling from Vancouver to Seattle to catch a plane at Seatac. As I didn't feel like spending 400$ on a cab between Vancouver and Seattle, I arranged to have a friend from the US pick me up at the border crossing, and took a (less expensive 80$) cab from Vancouver to the arch.

We apparently chose the cars-only side to walk up to, because a solier inspecting a car snapped up from his work, aimed his automatic rifle at us, and yelled at us to go around to the other side. When I tried to talk to him, to ask him to put the gun down among other things, he just screamed harder at me.

When we did go inside, the US military guys tried to play good cop/bad cop on why I felt the need to enter the United States. It was complete BS, and an example of exactly how silly US customs is. On the way back, the Canadian border guard was nothing but courtieous to us. I don't even think they had M-16s!

As for Sept 11, Canada had the whole FLQ thing in the 1970s. Trudeau invoked the war measures act. However, once the situation was taken care of, the war measures act went away. Why isn't the patriot act going away? Why must the US continue to militarize and occupy foreign nations not related to the terrorist attack?

Re:Rights?

[Judg3]

Yes, exactly. And now the government has a record of some of the interesting activity he's been engaging in. Perhaps he's gone in a file somewhere, a separate memo has been sent to some higher up State or Federal organization, he's being catalogued in a database...

While I don't necessarily agree with it, I don't think having the poster's scenario documented in a Fed database is a horrible thing.

I'll use myself as an example. When I was young (18 or so) I had several friends involved in breaking into telco boxes, cloning cell phones, etc. Well, they got caught eventually, and I was called in to be questioned by the FBI. I sat and talked with them for a good hour or so (Which made me late for work - and the FBI won't write you up an excuse either hehe) and they took the laptop my friend had given me, which later turned out to be stolen from his place of work (Office Max I believe). So here I am, in talks with the FBI about stolen property and cell cloning - I know I must be in a database or two somewhere, especially since a few of my friends where thrown in jail for it.

But since then, I've worked for several federal and state government agencies as well as a half dozen Casinos (which really love to search into the background of people), so I've had many many state & federal record searches done on me. I'm sure there's a database somewhere that lists everything about me down to tattoos, blood type, allergies, surgeries, etc. But it's never been a problem. I've never had anyone ever say anything to me about that incident, not has it ever prevented me from getting a job.
So really, even though I'm in a DB or twelve somewhere, it hasn't affected me in any way. But if I was a criminal, and had done some illegal things, then these database entries would help the authorities find me if they needed to and maybe even solve a crime I was involved in. Look at Ca, they record the DNA profiles of convicted criminals now and it's actually helped them solve a lot of 20+ year old cold cases.

The only things you have to worry about these databases is that they don't get into the wrong hands. Any other worrying would be because you either did something wrong, or are thinking about it.

I do wonder if I requested my file from the FBI if I'd actually get something - I've always been hesitant to stir the waters up with it hehe.

Re:move to europe

[hak1du]

Or how about the complete insult to freedom of religion when they started banning Muslim head scarves in our schools?

Every nation, including the US, imposes limits on what is acceptable under freedom of religion. France imposed a minimal dress code in schools and they banned all religious symbols. Seems pretty reasonable to me.

Furthermore, keep in mind that this is a pretty recent phenomenon, brough on by significant immigration into France. But people who come to France know what kind of culture they are getting into, namely a mostly secular culture with Catholic roots. France is not, and never pretended to be, an American-style multicultural society and it draws its lines differently. France's choice may well speed up integration and help Muslims assimilate culturally, while they develop new traditions for their religion in a French cultural context.

Besides, head scarves are more cultural symbols rather than religious symbols anyway. They are supposed to express modesty, but in a different cultural context, they achieve the opposite effect. Just because people claim that they are religious symbols doesn't make it so.

Not to mention the extrordinary stupidity of when they required the characters in Contra to be changed from people into robots because it seemed to violent for the children.

Well, and what about the extraordinary stupidity of banning nudity and sex in US media? Every culture has its sensitive spots. Banning violence seems no less reasonable than banning sex and nudity.

I mean, the way that the government has surveillance cameras in public places is just creepy.

In the US, the only difference is that it is private companies that do it. The US government can get the same information out of that, but they aren't even subject to the same kind of public oversight as the UK government.

Re:This is odd

[SagSaw]

It probably goes something like this.

1. Maintainance worker sees circuit boards, gas baloons, etc. in circuit-board-guy's apartment.

2. Thinking he's a hero and is about to foil a major terrorist plot, worker over-reacts and calls the FBI. (Note that the appropriate action if the worker suspects illegal activity would most likely be to call the local police.)

3. FBI takes worker's report, along with many other reports of people possing items that might be used in an attack, but are probably harmless. They don't want to pull resources off of other, probably more important tasts, in order to check out circuit-board-guy. Instead, they relay the report to the local police (who should have been contacted instead of the FBI in the first place), just in case circuit-board-guy really is planning some kind of attack.

4. Local police also assume that circuit-board-guy is harmless, but want to go take a peak just to be sure.

5. Local police show up at circuit-board-guy's door. They tell him what's going on (why not, he's probably innocent). Circuit-board-guy explains his hobby, and everybody goes away happy.

They way I read it, the FBI and the local police handled it well. Nobody had their door kicked down or property searched/seized involuntarily. The only place where something went wrong was worker's decision to call the FBI over a circuit board.

There are a number of comments to the effect that circuit-board-guy should have told the police to f*** off unless they had a warrant. While that would have been circuit-board-guy's right, I don't think it would have helped anything. By letting the police in and explaining his activities, circuit-board-guy did two good things. First, he defused suspicion (hopefully) that he might be planning some kind of attack. Second, showed the police that there are valid reasons for innocent people to have circuit boards and soldering irons hangin around their homes.

Re:This is odd

[op00to]

They asked because they didn't have any evidence. It's an old cop trick. When in doubt, ask if you can violate the subject's rights to fish for evidence. When the cops say "Now, we will either have to get a warrant to come into your house or you can let us in peacefully..." What they're really saying is "We don't have anything on you, please please be stupid enough to let us in to fish for evidence!"

Re:This is odd

[alienw]

Just so you know, the PATRIOT act does not require them to have a warrant. And the cops can really fuck up you, your house, and your life if you piss them off. You would be stupid to piss them off without any reason to do so.

Re:This is odd

[Halfbaked Plan]

The people who I know who've told the police to fuck off always get a weekend in jail. I've been confronted with the same exact situation and because I was polite and respectful (not 'submissive' so much as I treated the police officer like a human being, even though I had specifically been caught doing something illegal) I was just given a warning.

Probably the police should get smarter about these things. The asshole who rants and raves and fights like a libburtardian on crack is probably not the guy they need to catch. They're after terrorists, not crackpots who troll Usenet and online forums about their 'beliefs.' The real terrorist will know enough to be cooperative, polite, and probably not even be written a ticket.

Flow on effect

[Stillman]

Now, I don't want to come off as anti-american (though it is fairly easy to feel that way these days), but do you US citizens realise that this sort of stuff is starting to flow on to the rest of the world? Many of us live in countries not governed by religious, paranoid, low-iq, war-fetishists. We like that we don't need to go around pretending there are terrorists everywhere in order to "exact vengeance" for ONE incident (which, lets face it, PALES next to some of the things that the US have done to other countries) 3 years ago.

Because the US is so influential on the western political stage though, we almost have to fall in line with your head lunatic. PLEASE get rid of this fucker. PLEASE vote for someone with some intelligence. And also, if you know your neighbours or friends are morons who will vote for any asshole who can wave a flag and spout some jingoistic bollocks, please have them killed. Cheers.

Your Friend Was Presumed Innocent

[nathanh]

Look at it like this. If the police really thought your friend was a terrorist, there's no way they would have given him a warning. They would have just called Homeland and his house would have been searched while your friend was away from home.

The fact that they turned up, asked nicely, and gave him a choice, means that they thought your friend was innocent but they were under an obligation to investigate all reports.

Annoying, yes. But when I was a youngster I once got stopped by the police at 2am while I was walking home. They asked me who I was, where I was going, asked to search my backpack (and I let them), etc. I fumed and thought "fascist pigs" at the time but in hindsight, they did the right thing. Here was me wandering around suburbia at 2am with a big backpack and computer gear under my arm. Suspicious? I think so. The police would have been remiss if they hadn't asked nicely. They probably thought "he's too dorky to be a thief, but we better check anyway, because THAT IS OUR DUTY".

Same here with your friend. Somebody reported him. It's not up to the police to ignore reports from the public. They _should_ investigate. That is their purpose.

Re:Rights?

[dubl-u]

The only things you have to worry about these databases is that they don't get into the wrong hands. Any other worrying would be because you either did something wrong, or are thinking about it.

That's some pretty big handwaving there. The ordinary citizen probably doesn't have to worry; nobody will bother digging up the dirt on them. But what if you decide to become politically active? Or if you get in the way of somebody with a lot of money and few scruples?

It's a guarantee that databases like this will be misused; the only question is how much it happens.

Re:Rights?

[abreauj]

The only things you have to worry about these databases is that they don't get into the wrong hands.

You say that as if it were only a minor concern, as if the notion that the data could fall into the wrong hands is farfetched. That's kind of like saying not to worry about poisonous cleaners under the kitchen sink, because it's only a problem if the baby is curious and tries to taste them.

yes

[Kanasta]

you have the right to ask for a warrant, and we will come back using some national security law and turn your house inside out.

Or you can just let us in now voluntarily without a warrant.

Doesn't that sort of remove the point of having a system of needing warrants?

Re:Rights?

[JWSmythe]

But Gore, as Vice President, wasn't part to starting any world wars.

Bush, while not being Vice President, nor starting any wars before getting into office, played (and won) on name value. Well, not really won. More people voted for the other guy

Actual Votes:
Bush: 50,456,002(47.87%)
Gore: 50,999,897 (48.38%)

Electorial Votes:
Bush: 271
Gore: 266

This time around, maybe people will look at the record.

Bush: started two wars, killed lots of people
Kerry: didn't start any wars, wasn't responsible for thousands of deaths.

I spoke with one lady, who said "Bush isn't that bad, I'd vote for him again", who a few weeks later told me "I'm not voting for him again", because her son, a Staff Sergeant in the US Army Reserve with 6 years in, due to end his tour in August, is now being sent to Afghanistan in July for at least a year. This isn't abnormal, it's now policy. Just because you're not in the military now, and have no plans for joining doesn't mean much

From what I've read, Hitler wasn't that bad of a guy, til he started his ethnic cleansing campaigns across Europe, and conquering other countries just because they were there. That became fairly well known after a while. Maybe you heard about it? World War II?