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Itagaki Talks Ninja Gaiden Difficulty, Sequel, DOA
Thanks to Kikizo for its interview with Tecmo's Tomonobu Itagaki regarding "Ninja Gaiden 2, Code Chronus, Dead or Alive Ultimate, DOA4 and PSP, [and] Nintendo DS development", conducted at the E3 Expo in Los Angeles. Itagaki addresses the complaints of some about Ninja Gaiden's extreme difficulty, posturing: "It was done intentionally of course. The testers who tested this game went nuts. At first it was easier, but when the testers said 'this is too difficult', I made it even more difficult", before mentioning that a Ninja Gaiden 2 is planned, and "the concept will not change", but "it will be after [development of] Dead or Alive 4", which in turn will be produced after the nearly completed Dead Or Alive Ultimate, the Xbox Live online-enabled title which "takes the first two Dead or Alive titles, adds all new environments, a novel online setup, a higher degree of interactivity in its levels, new movies, new costumes, and more."
I love Ninja Gaiden
I just wish that I had the patience to put up with the riculous difficulty.
I've even managed to destroy one of my controllers in frustration. I just don't see why he couldn't have put an easy or normal option in the game, let us choose how hard we want it to be.
redune.com: The World 3.2 Megapixels at a time
I was hard, but it wasn't impossible. Once I learned how to actually play, I finished the game in around a week and a half. Sure, it was hard at first, and fighting the second boss on horseback, or the first time you fight the fiend chick were freaking crazy. But it's just a steep learning curve. Once I finished it, it unlocks a third "Very Hard" option and a secret costume. Pure bliss.
There is a market for really hard games, and if you don't want to play them - don't. But personally, it would have pissed me off to have finished Ninja Gaiden in 6 to 7 hours and it would have pissed me off if the same strategies worked against every enemy. What I loved about that game what that you had to learn how to actually fight within the context of that game. You had to learn to exploit an enemy's weaknesses, you had to learn how to use the terrain to your advantage, when to use your Ninpo and when to save it. In the end, it was one of the best games I ever played - if it had been easier... it would have just been eye candy. People who want easy games should buy easy games.
The common complaint agaisnt Ninja Gaiden is its difficulty. I really do not see the difficulity. I believe gamers might find it difficult is because they do not use useful tactics to beat the enemies. Mashing buttons and just killing everything that moves is not a useful tactic. If you actually use counters and the soul charge move so you can kill enemies in chains( the move the first boss explains to you) you should not have that much of a problem. Also, learning how to use the weapons and when to use them. Also, if u upgrade your wooden sword to the unlabored flawlessness, the game is even easier.
THe key to tackling games is to actully think about what u are doing and dont button mash and let the stylish moves make you think u have to do them. Espically in Ninja Gaiden, u can use about 5 moves and finish the game.
Ninja Gaiden is an amazing game in many, many ways. Sure, it's also extremely difficult, but not for the right reasons. In many areas, it is indeed the camera that would put you in comprimising situations that would often lead to high levels of frustration. There were some other obnoxious things I encountered (ie, not being able to change weapons or even use health items while an enemy's health meter was draining, oftentimes leave you wide open for an attack - wtf?).
I'm sorry, but I think it should be the goal of someone who creates a game to make it as much fun for everyone interested in that particular genre as possible. Making even the easiest mode extremely difficult really can kill the enjoyment level for many players (and I know for a fact it did). To those who are looking for a challenge, that harder mode would have been available.
In every interview I've read, Itagaki comes across like a pompous ass, too. How he can say things like "It was too hard, I made it harder" or even, when faced with questions regarding camera issues, deny it...that's just unreal.
I completely agree; part of a testers job is difficulty balancing. I've never heard of testers saying the game they are testing is too hard. Usually they think it's too easy because they play it so much. In the rare case that the testers think the game is too hard then something is definitely wrong. Personally I can only speak from my own experience and I put down Ninja Gaiden half way through; if it was slightly easier I might have continued.
Are you joking? I found Viewitful Joe and F-Zero pretty difficult. They both look great, but I found Joe somewhat hard as a platformer (my younger brother beat it during a rental - I myself am no spring chicken as far as video games are concerned, but being more into strategy RPGs these days, my platforming skills have rusted away).
F-Zero is nuts. My kid brother is great at games but can't make it through all of F-Zero's story mode challenges, even considering we've both gotten over the crazy initial difficuly of the game. It came out the same time as Mario Kart DD and its difficulty is quite apparent compared to that game.
"There is no time, sir, at which ties do not matter," Jeeves, (Jeeves and the Impending Doom)
While I will most certainly agree that a lot of games are a bit too eays now, Ninja Gaiden was pretty difficult. A learning curve should be gradual, and having such a difficult boss (the horsemen) so early in the game is a strong deterrant for many gamers. I have been playing computer and console games for over 25 years, and I have to say that NG is one of the more difficult ones out there.
On one hand, making such a difficult game can be good, for some reasons cited by previous posters. But on the other hand, it is bad for several reasons, one of which is this:
Harder games are for a niche market.
NG was not geared for a few elite gamers. It was made and heavily marketed for as large an audience as possible. And large audiences like games easier than what NG is. So a fe wposters here and onl lots of gaming boards constantly ridicule the majority of people who say it is hard by saying "I don't see why everyone says it is so hard. I beat the flying demon woman on my 2nd try." Well congratulations for you.. You're in the top 2% of the people who bought the game. And consequently, that isn't enough to keep large game development companies in business. Here in Japan, NG sold well at the beginning, but I sure as hell see a lot of copies of it at used game stores now, unlike GTA3.
If they gear the sales of a game for a wide audience, then they need to develop it for that wide audience. And having added in a difficulty select at the beginning of the game - of the "EASY" variety - would have helped the game be more enjoyable for a large number of people. I never finished NG because like a growing number of gamers out there, I have a job, and a life which is not just me playing games at home. My game time is limited, which means I will only play games that I enjoy. And constantly getting my arse handed to me by an incredibly difficult boss on the 2nd level of a majorly hyped up "you have to have this game" release does not make me want to keep playing. I'd rather go back and play some GTA:VC, which I beat a year and a half ago at 100%, than keep losing over and over and over and over again.
Making NG so difficult is going to hurt the initial release sales of NG2, I am quite sure, because a large number of people who thought the first installment was too difficult will think the same holds true for the sequel.
Anyways.. that is just my take on it.
+ - +
Credential establishment:
I played a lot of those old NES games. I've beaten Castlevania without continuing. Gone through Mario 2 -the whole game, no warping- without losing a life. I've been to the secret levels in Mario Lost Levels you can only get to if you don't warp. I've finished Zelda (first quest at least) with a wooden sword and no ring, and almost finished the second that way, too. I've beaten Golgo 13, Rygar in 3 hours starting from first picking up the game, Metroid without maps fast enough to get the legendary "bikini" ending, and over 300 hundred other games.
Mario Sunshine's void levels are my favorite parts of that game. I've beaten bloody Athena, for crying out loud.
Main argument:
So please understand than when I say that Ninja Gaiden is too damn hard, that I know what I'm talking about. It's not that I didn't finish both of the NJ games I played (1 and 2), it's that I didn't enjoy the experience. Back then I played video games fairly obsessively. I would not have the patience for a Ninja Gaiden today, because I have better respect for the limits of my free time.
The original Castlevania is a game that's very similar to NES Ninja Gaiden in many ways, but better in most respects. NJ's primary contributions to the genre are cinema scenes (which were either nonexistant or very rare beforehand) and wall-jumping, which was very frustrating to deal with.
It's not that games aren't easier these days than they were -- they are. But they're also in 3D, which is an intrinsically more difficult environment to operate in. And if video games, good ones, are ever going to truly break into the mainstream, we've got to pay greater attention to balanced difficulty.
Diatribe: complete!
Having this interview translated by what I assume was a marketing flack probably evened out some of his lunacy. From the times I've seen him at events and the interviews I've read, it seems that he always wears a lizard skin jacket, sunglasses, jeans and boots. He's quite tall for a Japanese guy - over 6 feet with the boots on, so he has a certain impact. But that's just clothes - anyone can dress like a rockstar.
It's the way he interacts with people and the things he says when there's no minder around that lets you know he's totally insane. Check out Tim Roberts' account of meeting him at E3 http://www.livejournal.com/users/108/42763.html, or the Tokyopia interview.
Mind you, when I say that he's crazy, that's at least half-positive. He seems to pretty much do what he wants, and he's been successful enough that obviously Tecmo is happy to let him have his way with things. That means that his games have been designed with only one purpose in mind: making him happy. That's miles better than a crappy movie-license game, or some other forgettable game that's been designed by committee. Ninja Gaiden may be too hard, but it's certainly original - we could use more lunatics like Itagaki.
Can you please take out Ninja Gaiden from the "challenging game" list? Ninja Gaiden is not challenging. It is unfair.
F-Zero GX and Viewtiful Joe are perfect examples of hardcore gaming. You are punished harshly for mistakes. But everytime you are, the game slaps you into line and almost shows you what you did wrong, right before it tears into your chest and pulls out your heart. That split-second of clarity: "Oh f**k, I should have gone left" Challenging? Yes. Joypad breaking? Yes. Unfair? No. You just need to be better.
I'd class myself as a hardcore gamer. But I play games to have fun. I don't mind being challenged, just as I don't mind being cotton-wooled through a game, as long as the experience is sound. Ninja Gaiden was a tedious game of "On your tenth death, maybe I'll let you progress, but you won't know what you did differently". It is the first, and only game, I have ever taken back to the store. It was ridiculous. I could lose 3/4 (if not all) of my health for simply not blocking for the 3ms I thought I might get a hit in. And if I did block all the time, well then heck, let's let the enemies hurt you some other way, instead (slitting your throat, throwing you around). And that was fine. A quick class in Don't Be A Wuss 101. And then the ninjas came. With exploding shuirkens. If you were stupid enough to stop blocking:
a) You'd get a shuriken on your ass, and BOOM.
b) You'd get chopped up.
There was no middle ground. I never felt like I had any other choice, but to be punished. Any hits I landed were luck, not skill. I have absolutely no intention of playing a game for 20 hours before I have fun. I suggest people that don't get it should grab a dictionary and look up the noun "game".
Ninja Gaiden's difficulty is not something that guy should be proud of. He should be utterly ashamed that he felt so damn clever that he was willing to sacrifice what could well be a bloody great game to the Alter of Hardcore. Give us the damn option of how much we want to be hurt, don't tell us.
As it stands, Prince of Persia remains the far better game, despite the fact it was damn easy. My second round through yielded a finish of five and a half hours. But damn, I looked and felt cool doing it.
Ninja Gaiden was desparate to make you look like an idiot.
Did he really know the market he was aiming for? Was it wise to release a game so hard that only very skillful players could beat it? Is that a good market to aim for?
Ninja Gaiden received lots of hype, all of the gaming press were hyping it for months, it got great reviews, and it became something of a best seller. This usually means more than just hardcore gamers will buy the game. And if you read the forums of various gaming sites the overwhelming opinion seems to be that the game was too hard.
Surely an easy mode could have been included to satisfy the more casual gamer? What would have been the harm in that? I suspect in Japan (where the X-Box hasn't sold so well) most X-Box owners are hardcore gamers and Itagaki got that market right, but that's certainly not the same market as the US and Europe. How many who bought the first NG for the X-Box will buy the sequel if they think it will be as hard as the first? Very few I would imagine, and at the end of the day Itagaki should be thinking about this if he wants this to be a franchise that people will keep buying.
Personally I wouldn't have had a problem with the difficulty if I had lots of time on my hands. But now that I've left university and have to work, the time I have available to devote to games is quite limited. Sometimes 30 minutes is all I get and that isn't much to make any progress in NG, and if I die at the end of those 30 minutes I'm often right back to where I started!
Many games players have grown up, and I think mostly the market has realised this. Not everyone can devote hours on end to play games like we did when we were kids anymore. It's true that you can't please all the people all of the time but I think Itagaki should give consideration to players who cannot devote the hours needed to master his game but still want the chance to enjoy it.