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HP Announces Support For MySQL, JBoss

Posted by simoniker on from the i'm-not-the-boss-of-you dept.

Chroniton writes "According to InternetNews.com: 'HP stepped up its commitment to open source software Monday by pledging to offer and support the MySQL database server and JBoss application server software in its servers' - it's also mentioned: 'The deal is truly symbiotic. While MySQL and JBoss get backing from a technology driver such as HP, HP gets the added credibility of being cozy with open source, a label many enterprises and HP rivals, such as IBM and Dell, are working toward.'"

139 comments

  1. IBM... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    a label many enterprises and HP rivals, such as IBM and Dell, are working toward.'"
    IBM is already open source friendly. Dell isn't open source friendly and doesn't seem to be trying either.

    1. Re:IBM... by Nuclear+Elephant · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Part of HP's plan had better include eliminating the planned obsolescence of their products. You used to have to pay $20 for a new printer for a CD to make it work with other windows versions. The open source community generally doesn't like the idea of having to buy a new printer every time there's a new kernel update (weekly?). HP's screwed us before with their DVD writers and other products...so IMO they've got to do a lot more than support open source to get my business. It would help if they built quality products that weren't designed to be replaced every 6-12 months.

    2. Re:IBM... by segvio · · Score: 1

      >>Dell isn't open source friendly and doesn't seem to be trying either.

      It figures an AC would say that: http://linux.dell.com/

    3. Re:IBM... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      It figures an AC would say that: http://linux.dell.com/
      Just making a front on your website saying you support Linux doesn't make it so. I own a Dell Laptop, I've requested many times to have correct Linux drivers for my video card, Dell has not complied. If you had actually bothered to visit the Dell support forums for Linux you would have found a large group of unhappy and frustrated Linux users that had the misfortune of purchasing a Dell.
      Good Day.

    4. Re:IBM... by chabotc · · Score: 2, Funny

      Actually i would call Dell pretty open source friendly. For the longest time they have supported and developed drivers for their PowerEdge servers (and sold those with linux installed and supported before IBM announced it's new linux strategy), and offered Linux server and pre-installed (and supported) Oracle on linux servers. Also they have supplied some of the major tv networks here in the netherlands with mpg storage and play back servers..

      No they are not a software development company, so they are not as visable as some, and they choose not to alienate MS (unlike like IBM who obviously still has some revenge issues). But they support Linux where it matters.. Selling products and giving support on them

    5. Re:IBM... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course! Why should Dell bother? Remember, innovation is something the company, apparently, frowns upon. Open Source has yet to become a "commodity" ...

    6. Re:IBM... by BiggerIsBetter · · Score: 4, Insightful

      IBM is already very very very open source friendly. Sounds like HP is just jumping on the bandwagon. Selling support for OSS software isn't really "cozy" either - it's just leaching onto a growing market share. Call me when they start contributing to the code in a meaningful way, or helping folks no IRC.

      --
      Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
    7. Re:IBM... by Wise+Dragon · · Score: 2, Informative
      > It would help if they built quality products that weren't designed to be replaced every 6-12 months.

      They do, in their business line of printers. Consumers don't really want stuff that will last forever, they want to have the latest and greatest of almost everything, not just computer hardware. Businesses want reliability and ROI.

      > HP's screwed us before with their DVD writers and other products...

      I was curious about this so I checked to see if you can use open source tools to write to HP dvd writers. Turns out you can. So if you don't mind, please elaborate on the alleged screwing that took place.

    8. Re:IBM... by Nuclear+Elephant · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Consumers IMO deserve printers that will last more than a year. There's a difference between a consumer product and something that's just cheap. With regards to the DVD writers, HP promised all of their customers that they'd be able to upgrade the firmware on their first generation writers to support DVD+RW when it was available. When it did become available, they erased a bunch of documentation from their website, denied they ever said it, and made people buy new writers. I've seen this same tactic used in the PocketPC market with their iPaqs as well as other hardware - they design their products to try and generate monthly residual rather than building a good product.

    9. Re:IBM... by Metasquares · · Score: 0

      Are you sure it's dell's fault that you can't get the drivers, rather than the graphics card manufacturer's fault? I've had all sorts of problems getting a driver for my Radeon IGP in Windows, as ATI and HP kept bouncing me back and forth, each saying the other would provide me with the drivers, and that's nothing compared with all the hoops I had to jump through to get a driver that supports DRI in Linux. Even when I did find a driver, it was an unofficial one.

    10. Re:IBM... by aled · · Score: 1

      The open source community generally doesn't like the idea of having to buy a new printer every time there's a new kernel update

      But having to upgrade the kernel to use a new driver is allright? Why should drivers come with the kernel anyway?

      --

      "I think this line is mostly filler"
    11. Re:IBM... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      In my particular case, Dell broke the working video card drivers by hard setting video ram in the Bios to 1Meg. Intel, the maker of the video card was not at fault for this and the video card would have worked had Dell not broken the existing bios. Appearantly Dell went out of the way to make my Insipiron incompatible with Linux.

    12. Re:IBM... by Uber+Banker · · Score: 1

      But having to upgrade the kernel to use a new driver is allright? Why should drivers come with the kernel anyway?

      Errr... they don't. You just have to add in the driver. You don't even have to add it to the kernel to use it, and if you do choose to add it you don't even have to restart.

    13. Re:IBM... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Call me when they start .... helping folks no IRC.

      You mean when they hop on the bandwagon and start telling the "noobs" to RTFM?

    14. Re:IBM... by irix · · Score: 1

      Call me when they start contributing to the code in a meaningful way

      sure

      --

      Do you even know anything about perl? -- AC Replying to Tom Christiansen post.
    15. Re:IBM... by (H)elix1 · · Score: 1

      So if you don't mind, please elaborate on the alleged screwing that took place.

      My last two HP experiences.

      I bought HP's i100 DVD burner, thinking I could use it to build bootable ghost images for a collection of demo laptops. Boy was I wrong. Using a dozen brands of media, I found only a couple DVD drives that could even read the (data only) media, much less boot from one. They also claimed (in the website info, later removed) it could handle some other media types. For the update? They wanted $100 USD! This was after paying for the support call, btw, which made no promises that the update would let me read media burned on the updated version by other machines if I shelled out the extra money. Ah, no thanks. Cut my losses at that point, and have not purchased HP kit since.

      I did win an HP 318 digital camera at a trade show drawing. I was on the road and packed the camera and USB cable, but did not have the laptop software installed. No problem, just go to HP and download the driver, right? Nope, no such luck. They want to charge ten or fifteen dollars. A bit of googling, and I could configure it to act as a USB drive... no driver required. Not that HP support bothered to mention that. They only would 'ship a cd' rather than download, which was loads of help when I was out of the country.

      --
      +++ UGUCAUCGUAUUUCU
    16. Re:IBM... by aled · · Score: 1

      May I know little about the Linux kernel but some motherboard at work required a driver that comes with a newer kernel than we use. And I had recompiled other drivers so them works with our kernel. I'm talking just the standard Redhat 8.0 kernel.
      So to me looks that some drivers source come within the kernel or are in the source tree at least which doesn't make sense for a network card. And drivers who doesn't aren't even binary compatible between kernel versions. May be some Linux hacker could explain this to me very very slowly so I can understand this or what I'm doing wrong.

      --

      "I think this line is mostly filler"
    17. Re:IBM... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HP's screwed us before with their DVD writers and other products...so IMO they've got to do a lot more than support open source to get my business.

      Keep in mind their motivation. They're a business just like any other; their goal is to make money. You read the version after it had been spun through the marketing department. The executive boardroom version went something like this:

      "The deal is truly parasitic. While MySQL and JBoss do all of the hard development work, HP gets a new revenue stream for minimal incremental cost as well as the added credibility of appearing cozy with open source, a label many enterprises and HP rivals, such as IBM and Dell, are working toward."

    18. Re:IBM... by Wise+Dragon · · Score: 1

      I found out there was a class action lawsuit regarding just the problem you experienced. I can't seem to find many details, but apparently the terms of the settlement are that HP will upgrade you to a 200i for free if you were misled. Link

    19. Re:IBM... by Sxooter · · Score: 1

      Actually, I'd say Dell is as Open Source friendly as they can be, but only on servers. They have their own developer working on drivers for things like RAID controllers and such.

      On the desktop, however, they are at best luke warm towards open source. And funnily enough, their recent desktop systems also seem to have a problem running Microsoft's Virtual PC software as well.

      --

      --- It is not the things we do which we regret the most, but the things which we don't do.
    20. Re:IBM... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It would help if they built quality products that weren't designed to be replaced every 6-12 months

      got an HP LaserJet II in my home office from the last century that's on about the bizillionth page--and for a number of years in the late 80's I was printing reams at a time with it

    21. Re:IBM... by chez69 · · Score: 1

      that was back when HP actually gave a shit about customers.

      --
      PHP is the solution of choice for relaying mysql errors to web users.
    22. Re:IBM... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Backing up the point of IBM being already cozy with open source. Lumping IBM in with Dell is a bit of bad research. IBM already widely support different versions of linux (which l kind of wish they didn't as l work for an IBM Master VAR :) ).

      Can anyone point me to the place to get my /. account details back ???? Can't create a new accout and can't get the existing account details.

    23. Re:IBM... by BiggerIsBetter · · Score: 1

      Well, I'll admit that much of that code is generally useful. A fair chunk of it is however specific to HP/Compaq hardware.

      --
      Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
  2. Their Crawler is Killing Sites by Nuclear+Elephant · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I don't know if this has anything to do with HP's new plan for open source, but they seem to have a new web crawler that is beating on websites hosting open-source software and ignoring (not even requesting) the robots.txt file they're supposed to leash themselves to. I've noticed this on about 3 different websites and we've had to blackhole their address space indefinitely.

    1. Re:Their Crawler is Killing Sites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Got some more details? More specific info?

    2. Re:Their Crawler is Killing Sites by Siniset · · Score: 1

      While this might be true, the poster doesn't offer any proof. Some proof please?

    3. Re:Their Crawler is Killing Sites by Nuclear+Elephant · · Score: 1

      15.219.201.69 is one of the IPs that started crawling our servers...

      % grep 15.219.201.69 access_log | wc -l
      869
      % grep 15.219.201.69 access_log | grep robot | wc -l
      0

    4. Re:Their Crawler is Killing Sites by Nuclear+Elephant · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Hmm I tried posting some IP info but it didn't show up - maybe slashdot has a filter or something? Anyway, here is the information minus the actual IP:

      % grep IP access_log | wc -l
      869
      % grep IP access_log | grep robot | wc -l
      0

      This was one of the sites that was crawled, apparently there are at least a couple different HP addresses doing this. I'm not screaming DoS, but I am ranting that they should be paying attention to robots.txt.

    5. Re:Their Crawler is Killing Sites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting
      1. I don't know if this has anything to do with HP's new plan for open source, but they seem to have a new web crawler that is beating on websites hosting open-source software and ignoring (not even requesting) the robots.txt file they're supposed to leash themselves to. I've noticed this on about 3 different websites and we've had to blackhole their address space indefinitely.

      Why not put in a poison pill page that is not referenced in robots.txt and is linked with human readable text like "this is a link to an invalid page to catch bad bots!"?

      That way, if any group attempts to index a site you can either feed them garbage (serves them right) or auto-blackhole any crawler that attempts to dig too much into the poisoned area?

      The blackhole could be temporary, elminiating the need for you to maintan the list at all. (Don't want to ban on the first error...just in case to cover some odd but valid situation you're not aware of that is somehow OK...though I can't think of any off hand!)

      I'm sure there are a few of these scripts out there...shouldn't be too hard to find one.

    6. Re:Their Crawler is Killing Sites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AbuseHandle: NAR-ARIN
      AbuseName: Network Abuse Response
      AbusePhone: +1-408-773-6727
      AbuseEmail: abuse@hp.com

    7. Re:Their Crawler is Killing Sites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Why not put in a poison pill page that is not referenced in robots.txt and is linked with human readable text like "this is a link to an invalid page to catch bad bots!"?
      Better yet, a link to goatse. He's got, like, the worst bot imaginable.
    8. Re:Their Crawler is Killing Sites by Deliverertx · · Score: 1

      What were the IP's?

  3. PostgreSQL? by danharan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Great news, but...

    Anyone know why MySQL as opposed to a more standards-compliant db like PG?

    --
    Information: "I want to be anthropomorphized"
    1. Re:PostgreSQL? by captainclever · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Public relations?
      MySQL is practically a household name compared to Postgres.

      --
      Last.fm - join the social music revolution
    2. Re:PostgreSQL? by rtaylor · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's difficult to partner with PG as there is not a controlling company. Both MySQL and JBoss have firms which will train HP freely and perhaps even take on part of the load in return for commercial contracts.

      With PG they're basically stuck trying to learn it themselves. RedHat would train HP, but RedHat doesn't want to be known for offerring PostgreSQL support since Oracle didn't like RedHat Database competition very much.

      --
      Rod Taylor
    3. Re:PostgreSQL? by Nuclear+Elephant · · Score: 5, Funny

      MySQL is practically a household name compared to Postgres.

      Yeah just the other day my grandmother asked me to pass the MySQL at the dinner table. And I heard a knock at the door, and when I answered it there were three Jehova witnesses trying to convince me to upgrade to 4.x

    4. Re:PostgreSQL? by sql*kitten · · Score: 1

      Anyone know why MySQL as opposed to a more standards-compliant db like PG?

      I'm guessing it's for buzzword-compliance. It wouldn't be much work for them to support, since it's so simple, and they just want to tick the "open source database" box. But the sort of people who buy HP-UX kit are more likely to want to run something like SAP/DB, an open source database that is truly industrial-grade, or PostgreSQL as you say.

    5. Re:PostgreSQL? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      'tis true; mod points are most valuable when you don't have any. Thank you for the new coffee stains on my chin and keyboard. ;-]

    6. Re:PostgreSQL? by captainclever · · Score: 1

      Flamebait? No.
      For the record, i use PostgreSQL.

      --
      Last.fm - join the social music revolution
    7. Re:PostgreSQL? by landoltjp · · Score: 1

      What about PostgreSQL, Inc.? Check out their support services. And their current partners list shows a relationship with redhat.

    8. Re:PostgreSQL? by njcoder · · Score: 2, Informative

      uhm.... SAP/DB is now MySQL MaxDB

      --
      Open Source Java DAO Generator
    9. Re:PostgreSQL? by soloport · · Score: 1

      Have been puzzled over this, too, as I'm a great fan of Postgres (and don't use MySQL at all, any more). What I wonder is, could it be license related?

      Seriously. People moan about the same thing when it comes to Linux vs the BSDs. Why is Linux SO much more popular? Well, in the case of the database wars, MySQL is LGPL and Postgres is BSD licensed. It's just too similar a corelation to ignore.

      My own sense of value says: If I were to contribute code/support/religious-zeal to a project, I would want to throw my weight behind a license (GPL) that would not risk diminishing the value of my effort.

      At the risk of being modded Flaimbait, it's as if the GPL derivatives are like a marriage license and BSD is like being associated with a town slut. Maybe people in general sense this "legitimacy" issue and avoid openly promoting software that's er... slut-like.

      So then, if the above stands to reason (and I'm not saying it does), what analogous relationship could one attribute to an MS EULA? Bondage?

    10. Re:PostgreSQL? by jamiebecker · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'd like to respond to this without starting a PG vs MySQL flamewar.

      I'm well aware of many advantages that PostgreSQL offers over MySQL (e.g., nearly full SQL92 support, stored procedures in many languages, "object-oriented" storage, views, triggers, etc) and also the performance advantage that MySQL enjoys over PostgreSQL for some operations.

      We've chosen MySQL over Postgresql because that is what our enterprise customers have requested. If we have sufficient interest in Postgresql, it will definitely move up on the roadmap.

      Jamie Becker
      Project Manager
      HP Open Source Reference Architecture
      HP Services
      jamieson dot becker at hp dot com

      --
      https://jamiesonbecker.com
    11. Re:PostgreSQL? by Spellbinder · · Score: 1

      where i live there come only two of them at your door
      you have to live in some high density area
      or they fear your neighbourhood

      --


      stop supporting microsoft with pirating their software!!!!!
    12. Re:PostgreSQL? by rtaylor · · Score: 1

      All due respect for PostgreSQL Inc. but HP doesn't want to rely on that company.

      Fujitsu and Software Research Associates both fund PostgreSQL development in Japan and would make good partners for HP for a venture of this type -- but many of the knowedgable callcentre workers do not speak English (SRA). Fujitsu is making some inhouse modifications in the storage manager, it seems based on their questions, which would prevent an our of the box bundle.

      Besides, (conjecturing) I'm wondering that Fujitsu doesn't want to put out a complete DataWarehousing system. They have the SANs, servers and mangement expertise and have been funding "Enterprise" level features (looking forward to PostgreSQL 7.5/7.6 yet?)

      --
      Rod Taylor
    13. Re:PostgreSQL? by rtaylor · · Score: 1

      All due respect for PostgreSQL Inc. but HP doesn't want to rely on that company.

      Sorry, I should say why. PostgreSQL Inc. is great for small shops looking for knowledgable support via phone or email at a good price, but PG Inc. has their hands full with their .org (Affilias) contracts to take on other big jobs.

      No, most of what Affilias requests is not tech support. PG Inc. writes Affilias a number of tools to enable them to do their work better and faster.

      --
      Rod Taylor
    14. Re:PostgreSQL? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      So then, if the above stands to reason (and I'm not saying it does), what analogous relationship could one attribute to an MS EULA? Bondage?

      :-)

      There are probably more /.ers who like bondage than MS. Well, the *idea* of it anyway...

    15. Re:PostgreSQL? by rnash · · Score: 1
      where i live there come only two of them at your door


      You're right : Always 2 they are : a master and an apprentice !
    16. Re:PostgreSQL? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      grow up

    17. Re:PostgreSQL? by SphericalCrusher · · Score: 1

      I've never really used PostgreSQL, but I've seen some stuff from it. There is nothing I need to do in PostgreSQL that I can't do with MySQL, so I don't really bother.

      --
      "Instant gratification takes too long." - Carrie Fisher
    18. Re:PostgreSQL? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Better yet, maybe the grandparent should go back to the classified ads and look for a job. It's a good thing that those certs are useless.

    19. Re:PostgreSQL? by Sxooter · · Score: 1

      Simple, really. People who want PostgreSQL aren't as likely to be the people who need HP to hold their hands. They either are old hands and build form source, or they can just use the RPM bundled with whatever distro they are using.

      Plus, PostgreSQL still presents a higher maintenance load and learning curve for most people. While PostgreSQL has made great strides in being relatively maintenance free for joe average user, it still requires a little more than a passing knowledge of what you're doing to keep it happy (i.e. vacuuming, editing things like random_page_cost, setting up shared_buffers and the kernel to support them, and so on.) This is in no way an indictment of PostgreSQL, as I personally am quite willing to endure some small amount of administration / performance tuning to get a fast and reliable database that stays up and running and can do some very heavy lifting.

      When I first started using pgsql, I found it much easier to just compile from source than to try to use RPMs, so I got used to installing from source. This was typical four or five years ago, due to issues with RPM updates not being able to automagically upgrade the data store. MySQL has an advantage in that all versions can upgrade in place over previous versions, so RPMs were commonly used for it, making it far more ubiquitous in the past. PostgreSQL still suffers from the problem of needing to dump / reload between major revisions, and occasionally between minor revisions for certain bugs.

      So, the folks who need it don't need HP, and the folks who need HP are the ones most likely to already have Oracle installed elsewhere, and need a small, fast database to store things like web pages. MySQL is pretty good at that. PostgreSQL is also good at it, but it doesn't have the kind of popularity that MySQL enjoys in things like magazines.

      --

      --- It is not the things we do which we regret the most, but the things which we don't do.
    20. Re:PostgreSQL? by Sxooter · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's difficult to partner with PG as there is not a controlling company.

      I'm sorry, but I just disagree on this. While there is no one company to partner with financially, there certainly is a single controlling group known as the "PostgreSQL Global Development Group" or PGDG.

      Much like the Apache Group, the PGDG is the group that's the head mofos in charge. Their website is developer.postgresql.org

      Much like the Apache Group, the PGDG is made up of the key developers, each sponsored in one way or another by some interested party. If HP were wanting to sponsor a developer to work on PostgreSQL, it is quite likely that they could find one or two good ones already working on it in their spare time who would be happy to stay at home and hack on it. Compare the developer mailing lists for both MySQL and PostgreSQL, and you'll find a much larger number of developers working on PostgreSQL than MySQL.

      By the way, there is a seperate marketing arm, hosted on advocacy.postgresql.org which is where PostgreSQL

      But claiming you need a commercial arm in order to properly partner with an Open Source project is to completely misunderstand how real open source projects get done.

      --

      --- It is not the things we do which we regret the most, but the things which we don't do.
    21. Re:PostgreSQL? by mrojas · · Score: 1

      well, we have a payroll and a corporate portal running on postgresql on the company i work for, and as an independent consultant i have developed three or four of apps with postgresql.

      i've experimented a little with mysql, but my feeling it is not as powerful as postgresql, so i don't considered it in my projects.

      greetings

    22. Re:PostgreSQL? by TheLink · · Score: 1

      The other advantage is the licensing. With Postgresql it's pretty clear what you can or cannot do. Esp as a system integrator or application dev.

      --
    23. Re:PostgreSQL? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      "so I got used to installing from source. "

      U r teh 733t 4ax0r!

    24. Re:PostgreSQL? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you can prove, that a MySQL database is as rock solid and transaction proof as a PostgreSQL database, your decision might be reasonable. Just a little example: If I have a PostgreSQL doing transactions and plug off power, and plug it in again, so the server crashes hard (no UPS allowed for that), my PostgreSQL databases recover to consistent state without any delay or problem. Does a MySQL recover the same way? If not, its not worth to even think about such a database on a _server_, its a mere toy to learn some kind of SQL syntax (not even standard). Believe me, I have seen MySQL databases that were beyond repair, and only could be recovered from backup (with data loss, of course). PostgreSQL databases always recovered without any problem due to the two-step writing concept with WALs. But I really would like to know if anybody at HP did some heavy testing (with the same or different results), or if you simply believe the MySQL gang. BTW, did you actually test the perfomances of MySQL vs. PostgreSQL? This is, not only simple SELECTs, but also more complex queries?
      Regards, Frank Finner.

    25. Re:PostgreSQL? by Sxooter · · Score: 1

      Sorry for feeding the trolls, but...

      Actually, installing from Source is actually pretty darned easy for PostgreSQL. or Xine, or gxine_client, or a whole bunch of other projects out there.

      Reading leet speak, OTOH, is a pain in the arse

      --

      --- It is not the things we do which we regret the most, but the things which we don't do.
    26. Re:PostgreSQL? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, it will come up without any problems. (By the way, MySQL supports ACID transactions.) I've been using MySQL since 1998 and I've never had it corrupt data, even when yanking power. I have heard of corruption with PGSQL, however. I've also heard (again, third party) that you need to frequently maintain and optimize (e.g., vacuum) PGSQL databases. You CAN do that with MySQL as well, but I've never had to. It just works. Maybe not fully optimized, but I've always been a don't fix it if it ain't broke sort of person.

      (MySQL supports different data types: the most popular: InnoDB supports transactions and is robust, while MyISAM is fast but not as robust. I always use MyISAM and have never had problems. YMMV, of course.)

      I don't know if anyone at HP has tested MySQL vs PostgreSQL, but others have; for example, check the DBMail archives. Anedotally, PostgreSQL is usually slower but can handle bigger loads without severe depreciation of performance. MySQL can handle larger loads with InnoDB but also suffers from performance loss. (Transactions are expensive.) Yahoo also runs huge datasets on MySQL for their financial.yahoo.com website. (MySQL drives that entire site, including all the charting.)

      I just think they're two different tools for two different jobs.

      Course, Slashdot runs on MySQL. The Slashdot effect is something that Slashdot endures daily. ;-)

    27. Re:PostgreSQL? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MySQL sometimes supports ACID if everything's configured just right, but in many if not most installations, requests to use transactions are ignored without so much as a warning that you're getting wrong answers.

    28. Re:PostgreSQL? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thing is, I'd be reluctant to contribute to a BSDL project, or proprietary vendors may steal my labor. But I'd be embarassed to contribute to MySQL, because their reputation for ignoring serious errors and shrugging off data integrity means any patch they approve has gotta suck--the kind of crap code I want proprietary vendors to steal.

  4. Sleeping with JBoss... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...doesn't seem like the best way to make the open source community trust you...

  5. JBoss is Great! by captainclever · · Score: 5, Funny

    Wow, the story mentioned JBoss.
    I know from experience that JBoss is the absolute BEST bit of software out there, it's so great. I can't recommend it enough. It's soooo much better than the competition..

    Ahem.. :)

    --
    Last.fm - join the social music revolution
    1. Re:JBoss is Great! by Timesprout · · Score: 4, Funny

      Marc, you promised to stop astroturfing. Now go to your room and no cheese for you tonight!

      --
      Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
      What truth?
      There is no dupe
    2. Re:JBoss is Great! by Kenja · · Score: 2, Funny
      " JBoss is the absolute BEST bit of software out there"

      Are you kidding? I've never played such a crap game. No plot, poor graphics, and dont even get me started on the controls.

      --

      "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
  6. Apple also supports it by damieng · · Score: 5, Informative

    If anybody's interested - both JBoss and MySQL ship as part of OS X Server (as well as a few other open-source products).

    --
    [)amien
  7. HP support by KoriaDesevis · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The article states that HP is giving testing and hardware support to these packages, and I assume that means they'll come up with a nifty little logo to show that it's "HP-Ready"... While that's all well and good, will they offer third-party technical support to users when these packages crash on HP servers? If not, who gets left holding the bag? If it were not open source, it would be cut and dry, but with the packages being open source and freely available, the issue of technical support gets blurred. The article didn't go into this fine point.

    --
    A love beyond compare...
    1. Re:HP support by Bickel · · Score: 2, Informative

      In addition to certifying a stack of software - RedHat, SUSE, JRockit, JBoss, MySQL - HP will be delivering integrated support and implementation services. This means a customer can but everything from HP, and HP will provide the first level of support to JBoss and MySQL and escalate issues to JBoss, Inc. and MySQL AB if needed as part of the JBoss and MySQL support contracts. Some customers may prefer this to buying separately and contacting separately HP, JBoss and MySQL - but you can still do that if you like... Bob Bickel JBoss

    2. Re:HP support by jamiebecker · · Score: 1

      Agreed. HP provides first level support for anything certified by HP.

      Jamie Becker
      Project Manager
      HP Open Source Reference Architecture
      HP Services
      jamieson dot becker at hp dot com

      --
      https://jamiesonbecker.com
    3. Re:HP support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hi Jamie,

      Bob Bickel mentions a stack based on RH or SUSE.
      Why hasn't HP certified Debian for its servers (proliant)? It's not like it isn't stable.
      It seems like you're already using it yourselves. I know there are various hacks with alien to get it working but they're not the kind of thing I'd want to see documented in a SOP. It doesn't need to be at the level of a PSP installer, a set of debs would do - just official enough for management.
      That would be a great "commitment to open source software"...

  8. Dual Licensing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Maybe HP can get the licensing changed to GPL only on MySQL. And LGPL on the client libs.

    That would be a helpful contribution.

    1. Re:Dual Licensing by lokedhs · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why not just use Postgres and be done with it? Better and it's really free. :-)

    2. Re:Dual Licensing by 0racle · · Score: 1

      Unless you have some religious beliefs on the subject, there's nothing wrong with a dual licensing setup, So what exactly is your problem with it?

      --
      "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
  9. HP Is Relentlessly Uncommitting by fastdecade · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't read much into this.

    HP has always jumped back, forth, and sideways in their "embracing" strategies. One day, they'll promote Java, the next day you'll hear nothing about it. Same with Linux. Compare that to IBM - they have a strong, consistent, stance on both Java and Linux.

    Part of this inconsistency is likely due to politics behind the Compaq merger. But it's gone on longer than that - for example, whatever happened to all their embedded consumer devices (I think it was branded "cool city")? All this indicates HP has big political problems, which is causing it to lack any direction.

    1. Re:HP Is Relentlessly Uncommitting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      no, the inconsistency comes from the fact that the only one profitable part of HP's business is selling ink.

    2. Re:HP Is Relentlessly Uncommitting by beboploco · · Score: 1
      whatever happened to all their embedded consumer devices (I think it was branded "cool city")?

      Cooltown was (and perhaps is, although the web site seems to have been diverted toward another program) a research project, not a product line, generally looking at interesting uses for web-connected mobile devices. (But it's probably fair to say the research hasn't obviously engendered a swarm of web-connected mobile device products from HP.)

    3. Re:HP Is Relentlessly Uncommitting by jamiebecker · · Score: 1

      We've been developing this solution stack with major customers since late 2003.

      This architecture offers a reference architecture initially aimed at supporting Java and Jabber applications on Linux. Python, JPython, Perl, and PHP development support are planned for the next release.

      Jamie Becker
      Project Manager
      HP Open Source Reference Architecture
      HP Services
      jamieson dot becker at hp dot com

      --
      https://jamiesonbecker.com
    4. Re:HP Is Relentlessly Uncommitting by dago · · Score: 1

      since late 2003 !

      Wow, that's almost half a year ...

      --
      #include "coucou.h"
  10. Apple already does this by daveschroeder · · Score: 4, Informative

    Apple already ships MySQL and JBoss with Mac OS X Server, and supports basic use (e.g., enabling, basic use) via free support channels, or advanced support of any aspect via Mac OS X Server Software Support products.

    1. Re:Apple already does this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Nobody runs OS X as a unix. It performs like a dog. Maybe for some school work.

    2. Re:Apple already does this by jbplou · · Score: 1

      Mac server market is a joke. HP is a major player, the server market is down to 4 major players and several minor players. HP is number 2. Mac is meaningless on the server side.

  11. Re:Did I miss something? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    how is AMD open source?

  12. Re:HP will support anything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    so keep cheerleading HP while they swap American jobs for cheap Indians while passing on the savings in salaries directly to the largest shareholders not the actual customers

    Well, I hope so; that's their job. Shareholders are interested in making money, not helping customers (except incidentally).

    That's capitalism. There may be plausible alternatives; if you've been keeping one secret, please, we'd all love to hear.

  13. Re:Did I miss something? by ditto999999999999999 · · Score: 0, Redundant

    I think it indicates how conservative they (Dell) are...

  14. HP? by turgid · · Score: 4, Informative
    I can't understand why anyone would buy anything from HP when you can get exactly the same stuff from Dell at about 60% of the price. HP sales staff suck. They couldn't care less about your order. Dell will have you quoted up to your satisfation, and the stuff shipped to the right address withing 2-3 days. HP takes about 6 weeks, charges you more, gets your order wrong, blames you and then charges you more to put it right.

    I for one will not be buying from HP ever again, except maybe for laser printers...

    --
    Stick Men
    1. Re:HP? by jcgf · · Score: 1

      You no longer have the God given right to not buy from them.

    2. Re:HP? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, I have opposite experience.

      I had twice DHell - once with a notebook, once with
      DVD burner. Now I have HP notebook and IMHO it is way better than the previous Dell one even though it was $200 more expensive.

      Also the Dell desktop I used today was a crap - brand new but CD and FDD already not working ...

  15. What this REALLY means... by MosesJones · · Score: 5, Insightful


    IBM have WebSphere and DB2

    Oracle have 10gAS and Oracle 10g

    SAP have Netweaver and SapDB

    Microsoft have .NET and SQLServer.

    HP abandoned their old App Server and have worked out how to get good mindshare for low investment on a new one.

    Pretty smart move by HP as it puts them back in the "solutions" market and tied in with their SI business means they have a real opportunity in the custom build market.

    --
    An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
    1. Re:What this REALLY means... by turgid · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Pretty smart move by HP as it puts them back in the "solutions" market and tied in with their SI business means they have a real opportunity in the custom build market.

      Er no, HP have now painted themselves into a corner at the bottom of the low end. All the other big companies must be laughing all the way to the bank. Nice one again HP.

      --
      Stick Men
    2. Re:What this REALLY means... by Timesprout · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think you are right on the money here. HP embarassed themselves with their indecision on Bluestone. Selecting MySQL and JBoss does not inspire confidence that HP will be a factor in the services market with the big players which is where the real money is these days, both MySQL and JBoss lack serious enterprise grunt. Also if you are looking to build a reputation JBoss might be a tad on the volatile side.

      It seems a strange choice that given their resources HP could have taken stewardship of other server projects and customised them for their needs. MySQL and JBoss looks like the bargain basement quick fix.

      --
      Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
      What truth?
      There is no dupe
    3. Re:What this REALLY means... by njcoder · · Score: 1
      One of the new execs at JBoss is Bob Bickel. Bob Bickel was VP or something or other at Bluestone and then worked at HP (forgot title) when HP aquired Bluestone.

      I had worked with Bluestone a lot. Really great product and company. It was a shame to see HP not carry through with it. Don't really know much about Fluery but Bob's always seemed like a nice guy.

      Just wanted to point out the relationship between JBoss and HP that exists.

      --
      Open Source Java DAO Generator
    4. Re:What this REALLY means... by jamiebecker · · Score: 1

      HP continues to have an extremely strong partnership with both Oracle and Microsoft. This stack is an open source stack specifically designed to meet the needs of customers that are looking for an open source platform and are willing to forego some performance and administrative benefits to get there. There are valid advantages to each platform.

      Jamie Becker
      Project Manager
      HP Open Source Reference Architecture
      HP Services
      jamieson dot becker at hp dot com

      --
      https://jamiesonbecker.com
  16. Re:Dell cozying up with open source? by Timesprout · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What are you asking here for? Call Dell and ask them. When enough people do that they will probably provide it. One issue would be driver support on their higher end systems, another would be what distro should they provide, there will only be moaning if geekoid the geek cant get his favourite distro pre installed and I imagine supporting several distros would be a major pain in the ass for Dell. I would think Dell would rather provide an unformatted drive and an installer dvd of your requested distro and dump the install grief on the enduser.

    --
    Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
    What truth?
    There is no dupe
  17. It's all in the name by turgid · · Score: 1

    It's just the name, it's like Nike training shoes, Cocal Cola and Microsoft Windows. They might all be crap, but they're what people have heared of and are already using. It's a populist move.

    --
    Stick Men
  18. They've found the cure for NIHS by SpamJunkie · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is obviously a sign that they've found a cure for that pox upon the tech sector, NIHS or Not Invented Here Syndrome. I estimate, based on absolutely no data, that NIHS costs the US economy billions of dollars.

    HP showed signs of beating NIHS with their iPod deal with Apple. With this announcement they have shown that they have a cure for NIHS, at least in some quantity.

    People and corporations with NIHS, unlike normal people, have an unfounded fear of technologies they didn't invent. It is related to paranoid dylusion. Countless hours and money is spent recreating technology that has already been inveted by someone else.

    It is yet to be seen if HP will sell their NIHS cure to other companies or keep it for themselves as a competitive edge. However, even if they do decide to sell the cure it is likely that most people and corporations will fear the NIHS cure and attempt to create their own.

    1. Re:They've found the cure for NIHS by turgid · · Score: 4, Insightful
      What HP is showing is that they're the Microsoft of the hardware world. Rather than investing in R&D to develop new stuff, they'll wait until someone else takes the lead, maybe loses their shirt and then copy them with a slightly inferior but more conformist product.

      In my day HP was like DEC, IBM and other great.respected corporations. Then they got Carly and it all went downhill...

      --
      Stick Men
    2. Re:They've found the cure for NIHS by Chris+Brewer · · Score: 2, Informative

      Just to point out the obvious, HP was DEC. DEC was bought out by compaq who then merged with HP. Those compaq proliant servers? Rebadged digitals. The hp branded monitor and keyboard that I'm sitting at right now are identical to the compaq monitor and keyboard a couple of desks over, just the brand has changed (the model numbers are still the same)

      The hp compaq d530 I'm using is pretty nice though - P4 2.8G, pity it's running NT4 (as is still the corporate standard here).

      --
      Consultancy: If you're not part of the solution, there's money to be made in prolonging the problem
    3. Re:They've found the cure for NIHS by kpharmer · · Score: 1

      > I estimate, based on absolutely no data, that NIHS
      > costs the US economy billions of dollars.

      and on the opposite end of the spectrum you've got "Invented Here Syndrome" (IHS) - in which companies are sure that commercial applications are 1000s of times better than custom-developed ones.

      These companies have plenty of CS skills, but due mainly to their inability to run a project have convinced themselves their their programmers suck, and that real products are 'bought' rather than 'built'. They fail to realize that complex applications aren't bought - they're bought & customized, and that customization can be more expensive than simply building the software in the first place.

      I estimate, based on over twenty years of systems development across a dozen industries that IHS is costing US companies billions of dollars in excessive project complexity & licensing costs while at the same time depriving them of significant new opportunities.

  19. Re:Dell cozying up with open source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I should clarify - my biggest want is to NOT have to purchase Windows with my Dell computer. Yeah, I could go elsewhere and vote with my dollar.. and that's fine, but I like the Inspiron-series laptops, and I just find the situation frustrating. They're bloody expensive enough without having a honking huge pile of software you don't want/need in the package.

    To clarify - I really don't give a flying fiddler's fart whether or not they bundle something else with it.

    And I /have/ expressed these frustrations to Dell. Still waiting...

  20. Re: not flamebait by danharan · · Score: 1

    Yours answer was a fair point, and I didn't take it as flamebait.

    My question was asked honestly, but it seems some mods can't tell the difference, and one modded me a troll. oh well... :)

    --
    Information: "I want to be anthropomorphized"
  21. Re:Dell cozying up with open source? by turgid · · Score: 1

    You can get one with BSD on it from Apple. That doesn't help you though...

    --
    Stick Men
  22. Your analogy is flawed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm sorry, but what he's asking for is more like someone who goes to the ice cream store and demands a different flavour of ice cream - one that tastes a hell of a lot better, and costs a hell of a lot less.

    Anyway, I think the original poster is curious as to how Dell is now on the 'cozying up with open source software' list with IBM when their products are so anti-choice.

    1. Re:Your analogy is flawed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm sorry, but what he's asking for is more like someone who goes to the ice cream store and demands a different flavour of ice cream - one that tastes a hell of a lot better, and costs a hell of a lot less.

      So... You're saying pickle flavored ice cream? Fine... I'll bite.

      The point is that when enough people demand pickles (or pickle flavored ice cream), then the market will respond. Right now, linux lovers just aren't that significant (sorry- just being honest).

      Right now, the fact is that TASTE is subjective, and you are in the (miniscule) minority. Price don't seem to matter. Look at generic web clients. Though linux has been around longer than OS-X, you typically see more OS-X browsers than Linux. And OS-X isn't cheap! Plus manufacturers get deals from MicroSux to preload Windoze onto all their machines (largely negating your cost factor).

      Linux is a great server. It's a great embedded platform. It makes great appliances. It does NOT make a great desktop. I hope someday it does (and which, you can expect MS to offer "Longhorn Home" or "Lite" as a free download).

  23. Is Dell a traitor to open source ?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dell is so screwed up with M$ it is sacred shit to sell open sourced Java servers and Database. In the end Dell is loosing markt share to HP and IBM. Dell always trys to distance it self from Redhat and has no offering of Home users linux desktop that is $200 cheaper than M$ windows.

    Dell needs to change and accept open source internally and externally.

  24. Cluster? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is it possible to have high availability / cluster techiniques with MySQL?

  25. Debian on Proliant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I would really like HP to step up its commitment to open source software by giving equal support to Debian on Proliant as it does to RH & SUSE. HP ships a load of drivers and useful agents (that throttle the fans back to something bearable) as rpms with a nice installer, but which works with supported distros only, AFAIK. Some people have managed the install indirectly using alien and a kernel recompile but surely HP can do better when they apparently use Debian as their internal development platform. It can't be stability issues with Woody, surely?

  26. Honest grammar question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What is the deal with everyone treating company names as plural nouns? Maybe I'm wrong but it sure seems to me that a company is no more of a plural noun than a gaggle of geese.

    1. Re:Honest grammar question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In American English, companies are invariably referred to in the singluar "Hp is...", in British English (and probably others) companies can be referred to in the plural "HP are...".

      It's just a question of which idiom you're used to.

  27. Is it really about open source assistance? by aixguru1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Come on folks, look at the bigger picture. Look at the two projects they are going to support, MySQL, and JBoss.

    Now look at their competitors products (IBM) Websphere and DB2 products. The reasons have to be more than just jumping on the bandwagon with open source. IBM has two products that are similar to the exact two projects HP chose to help.

    All is fair in business, but HP isn't going to throw money at projects just to claim they are on the open source bandwagon. I believe the direct intent is to improve MySQL and JBoss to go head to head with IBM on this one.

    --
    root 10956 5164 0 Oct 22 - 0:23 sendmail: rejecting connections: load average: 70 (isn't sendmail just too kind)
    1. Re:Is it really about open source assistance? by kpharmer · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      > I believe the direct intent is to improve MySQL and
      > JBoss to go head to head with IBM on this one.

      head to head? not a chance: while jboss & mysql have their merits, they are not direct competitors to websphere & db2. That's like comparing bikes to motorcycles, cars to trucks, etc, etc.

      Head to head would have involved a huge reseller's discount on selling WebLogic & Oracle. This is more like a quick & dirty move to get something into that solutions category.

    2. Re:Is it really about open source assistance? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      2 days ago I've got my 4 CD pack of IBM trials for Linux (including websphere, db2, etc)

      The install is horrible if you are not on RHAS
      had to redo some things.

      OK, where do I start.
      WebSphere

      Too much Java shit. From the very start, that sucker wants ~200 MB of ram, when one client connects TO SERVER A FREAKING 200 byte index.html memory consumption jumps to ~500 MB (my box started swapping like mad, never stopped until restarted)

      and a funny thing about versions. 1.3.26 comes up several times. Hmm, I have apache on a p1 box (2.0.49) runs very nice. Why do people choose to implement all that Java crap and nonsense.

      DB2, too many java processes make my box want to commit suicide thats all I can say.

      Then I tried Oracle 10g.
      Install was a bit better, finished in under 40 min, had to use SUN java, the included IBM JRE seg-faulted right away (no everything else runs fine, even my java stuff)

      I'm not saying that I know the ins and outs of those products, but they all seem to follow very inconsistant (M$) model.

      Next day, I run my mysql prompt.
      friendly mysql> greets you. It is good to be back!

      [Yes, PG is nice too]

      I say it is a very smart move for HP to support mysql. Especially if they start selling clusters, that would generate more proffit right away. Instead of selling 1 box + mysql, sell 12 boxes + more expensive support contracts.

      It all can be done.

      ~omi

    3. Re:Is it really about open source assistance? by kpharmer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > Too much Java shit. From the very start, that sucker wants ~200 MB of ram

      I feel for you - I'm not a huge fan of java. However, keep in mind that WebSphere is a Java application server, it is 2004, and is probably targeted at application servers with 4+ gbytes of memory.

      > DB2, too many java processes make my box want to commit suicide thats all I can say.

      Then you need to move up to at least a 386 ;-). Seriously, I run db2 on my laptop with 1 gbyte of memory with no problems. Then again, it is also really targeted at servers with 2-4+ gbytes in memory. Also, keep in mind that the java based install is optional, you can also install without it.

      > Next day, I run my mysql prompt.
      > friendly mysql> greets you. It is good to be back!

      While I understand an impatience with awkward installers, the differences in reliability, flexibility, and performance between mysql & db2 more than make up for a little extra time spent upfront. The DB2 development staff does not have a design philosophy of "sweep errors under the carpet" the way that mysql does (please don't ask me to back that up, you can easily find evidence of this attitude in their work-arounds & known issue lists). And as far as db2 features go - db2 had more features in 1982 than mysql does today.

      So yeah, mysql is much easier to install than db2. A bike is much less complex than a car too.

  28. I'll believe it when I see it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When I see MYSQL running on Itanium and there is actually proof of HPUX and Itanium engineers working with MYSQL to change their code, I'll believe it. Otherwise HP is going to slap their name on some pathetic distro CD and say they "support" open source software.

    1. Re:I'll believe it when I see it by bunyip · · Score: 2, Informative

      When I see MYSQL running on Itanium...

      Well, I've seen MySQL running on Itanium, we have a whole cluster of them at work, in production since December. MySQL supports it and we get the binaries directly from them, so I don't see any obstacle to getting it via HP.

      Alan.

  29. nothing to see here, go back to work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's nice HP is using JBoss and MySql, but this is hardley news. Nothing to see here.

  30. Questions about HP Open Source LRA? by jamiebecker · · Score: 5, Informative

    I'd be happy to respond to questions about this supported and certified architecture that may not be answered in this article.

    Jamie Becker
    Project Manager
    HP Open Source Linux Reference Architecture
    HP Services
    jamieson dot becker at hp dot com

    --
    https://jamiesonbecker.com
    1. Re:Questions about HP Open Source LRA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does HP's support for MySQL extend to producing a ServiceGuard module?

  31. GrSecurity. by /dev/trash · · Score: 1

    Was it HP that backed out of the funding deal?

  32. my 2 cents by MasTRE · · Score: 2, Insightful

    IBM is already into OSS in a big way, was Chroniton born yesterday?

    HP is (was?) an innovator, Dell is.. well, like McDonald's, sorta. Doesn't taste that good, isn't as cheap as it should be, given the quality (or lack thereof). But thru marketing you always hear of them, and lots of people simply buy their [usually inferior] products.

    --
    Must-not-watch TV!
  33. Do You Bill For Advising Clients? by occamboy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I suppose that it's OK to support something like mySQL, which is so clearly inferior to PostgreSQL, if such support is demanded.

    However, if clients are asking for advice, are you telling them to go with mySQL because that's what they want to hear? Or are you leveling with them and telling them that PostgreSQL is far, far better?

  34. HP is very shifty in it's policies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...They even get this part of it wrong (making revenue off ink). At a major Telco in Australia (Optus), they forgot to bid for a multi million dollar pritner refreshment program. How's that for incompetence? Maybe that is why the support contract for Optus is being insourced and HP is out later this year. I think they're too emabarrased, that is why they're keeping it hush-hush.

  35. Re:Dell... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    isn't open source friendly?

    have you not seen http://linux.dell.com?

  36. Dell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dell is Microsoft's bitch. Why would Dell support open source when MS tries to ruin open source?

  37. Re:seriously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This isn't wholly flamebait. A quick perusal of the older versions of the manual reveals statements by the folks who make MySQL that show a definite lack of understanding of things like transactional integrity, constraints, and other things relating to relational theory.

    However, PostgreSQL can stomp MSSQL into the ground in any application requiring heavy parellel load handling, user defined functions, and SQL compliance. Heck, MSSQL still thinkgs you can only have one NULL in a unique column. That kind of thinking shows a very real lack of understanding regarding the SQL 92 / 99 specification.