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Is Microsoft Money Crushing Microsoft?

JoshuaDFranklin writes "The latest Seattle Weekly has an article by a former Microsoft project manager titled Microsoft's Sacred Cash Cow. It argues that Microsoft, addicted to its Windows and Office revenue, is stifling innovation within the company: 'new, better ideas that would take business away from Windows or Office don't really have a chance at Microsoft.' Apple, in contrast, has embraced Open Source and is delivering a better consumer experience." Update: 06/06 21:24 GMT by T : Sorry, it's a dupe.

86 of 390 comments (clear)

  1. I'm not even registered an I know this is a dupe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Can I get paid to be a Slashdot editor? I'll only dupe half as much as the others and I come cheap!

  2. What are you talking about? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Microsoft never innovated BEFORE they had money. They don't innovate NOW. They just don't innovate. It's not part of their corporate culture. They wait for other people to (1) invent things and (2) prove them to be profitable, and then they move in and sell them. Sometimes they look for people who might potentially be a threat later (Netscape) and they throw money at putting them out of business. But this is all they have ever done. Talking about their Windows/Office revenue streams "stifling" innovation is silly; there's nothing there to stifle.

    1. Re:What are you talking about? by 0racle · · Score: 5, Funny

      Thats not true. It might not be technically an "innovation," but while Mac's where wasteful with the Trash can on the desktop, Microsoft showed forward thinking an ecological responsibility and used a Recycling bin instead.

      --
      "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
    2. Re:What are you talking about? by Andy_R · · Score: 3, Funny

      Of course Microsoft innovate! Don't you remember Bob?

      --
      A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
    3. Re:What are you talking about? by SensitiveMale · · Score: 3, Funny

      Microsoft never innovated BEFORE they had money. They don't innovate NOW.

      One word - Bob

    4. Re:What are you talking about? by XryanX · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Some of the patents associated with Linux

      Regardless, didn't MS try to emulate Emac's scriptability when they made VB6?

      How about the Nautilus interface? MP3 preview feature? SAMBA? The ability to lay firewalls at the kernel level? Support for multiple desktops, with single-click changeability?

      I could go on, but I won't. Just look at some of the stuff gAIM has done if you want to see a common example of open source innovation.

    5. Re:What are you talking about? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative


      Wow, a recycler, how novel!

      ... well, it would have been, if it NeXTstep hadn't had it since before 1989 (NeXTstep is also where Window 95 got its taskbar). See for example this page for more details.

      ... which just serves to show even more how un-innovative Microsoft is. Of course, there's nothing wrong with building on other people's ideas, but there's something pretty sick about then pretending to be creative, and something pretty sad about a market where users are so unaware of alternatives that they buy this lie.

    6. Re:What are you talking about? by dbirchall · · Score: 4, Informative
      Okay, let's take a look further back, then.

      Microsoft got its start in the 1970's. Its first product was a BASIC interpreter. BASIC had been developed in the 1960's at Dartmouth and made public-domain; Microsoft announced an interpreter for the Altair, then started actually working on it (using "borrowed" time on someone else's minicomputer), missed a bunch of delivery dates, and shipped a buggy product.

      Then, IBM was looking for a PC OS and programming language. BillG's mom suggested they talk to him about BASIC; IBM's chat with Digital Research (makers of CP/M) didn't go well, BillG said "sure I can give you an OS" despite not having an OS, then ran out, bought a CP/M ripoff called QDOS, and tried to get it finished up in time...

      Sounds pretty much like the recent history. What was it you were trying to have as a point, again?

    7. Re:What are you talking about? by wibs · · Score: 2, Funny

      I remember being very confused the first time I used the Recycle Bin. On my Mac, if I wanted to throw something out, I put it in the trash because that's where things I didn't want anymore should go. But the recycle bin? I don't want three old images to be mixed together and then one find a not-quite-as-good image waiting on my computer the next day.

      Seriously, there's nothing I want to extract and reuse from my unwanted data. Don't confuse me with different names just because you're trying to be "different". What if GM called the steering wheel the directional input? Crimeny.

      --
      If you get nervous, just remember that there are a few billion other people who don't really give a damn.
    8. Re:What are you talking about? by Noose+For+A+Neck · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Just look at some of the stuff gAIM has done if you want to see a common example of open source innovation.

      Actually, GAIM is pretty retro, at least on Windows. Crashing 8 times a day for no visible reason, crashing on attempting to recieve a file, no file send capability. All in the pursuit to emulate a current product from AOL. Yeah, there's some real innovation.

      --

      Software piracy is victimless theft.

    9. Re:What are you talking about? by innocent_white_lamb · · Score: 2, Informative

      Of course Microsoft innovate! Don't you remember Bob?

      Actually, MS Bob is a kind-of enhanced version of the Commodore 64 cartridge program called Magic Desk.

      So much for that one.

      --
      If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
    10. Re:What are you talking about? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny
      Microsoft announced an interpreter for the Altair, then started actually working on it (using "borrowed" time on someone else's minicomputer), missed a bunch of delivery dates, and shipped a buggy product.

      You left out the part where Bill wrote a letter to a computer magazine crying about people passing it around instead of sending him money. I don't think that had ever been done before, so I think we have to concede that some innovation did indeed come from Microsoft.

    11. Re:What are you talking about? by swillden · · Score: 2, Informative

      Microsoft innovates, their employees innovate.

      Only in the US version of English (and maybe in Canadian English as well, not sure). In UK and Australian English, the name of a corporation, or any group of people, is a plural noun, and the verb is conjugated appropriately.

      Both approaches make sense when viewed from the appropriate perspective, and neither is inherently correct. It's just a cultural difference.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    12. Re:What are you talking about? by Black+Perl · · Score: 3, Informative

      Seriously, there's nothing I want to extract and reuse from my unwanted data. Don't confuse me with different names just because you're trying to be "different". What if GM called the steering wheel the directional input? Crimeny.

      Microsoft didn't change the trash can because they were trying to "be different". The court decided in the Apple-vs-MS copyright-infringement case that the image of the Trash Can was pretty much the only copyrightable aspect of the Mac UI.

      --
      bp
    13. Re:What are you talking about? by golgotha007 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      and for the record, here it is:


      AN OPEN LETTER TO HOBBYISTS

      By William Henry Gates III

      February 3, 1976

      An Open Letter to Hobbyists

      To me, the most critical thing in the hobby market right now is the lack of good software courses, books and software itself. Without good software and an owner who understands
      programming, a hobby computer is wasted. Will quality software be written for the hobby market?

      Almost a year ago, Paul Allen and myself, expecting the hobby market to expand, hired Monte Davidoff and developed Altair BASIC. Though the initial work took only two
      months, the three of us have spent most of the last year documenting, improving and adding features to BASIC. Now we have 4K, 8K, EXTENDED, ROM and DISK BASIC.
      The value of the computer time we have used exceeds $40,000.

      The feedback we have gotten from the hundreds of people who say they are using BASIC has all been positive. Two surprising things are apparent, however, 1) Most of these
      "users" never bought BASIC (less than 10% of all Altair owners have bought BASIC), and 2) The amount of royalties we have received from sales to hobbyists makes the time
      spent on Altair BASIC worth less than $2 an hour.

      Why is this? As the majority of hobbyists must be aware, most of you steal your software. Hardware must be paid for, but software is something to share. Who cares if the people
      who worked on it get paid?

      Is this fair? One thing you don't do by stealing software is get back at MITS for some problem you may have had. MITS doesn't make money selling software. The royalty paid to
      us, the manual, the tape and the overhead make it a break-even operation. One thing you do do is prevent good software from being written. Who can afford to do professional
      work for nothing? What hobbyist can put 3-man years into programming, finding all bugs, documenting his product and distribute for free? The fact is, no one besides us has
      invested a lot of money in hobby software. We have written 6800 BASIC, and are writing 8080 APL and 6800 APL, but there is very little incentive to make this software
      available to hobbyists. Most directly, the thing you do is theft.

      What about the guys who re-sell Altair BASIC, aren't they making money on hobby software? Yes, but those who have been reported to us may lose in the end. They are the
      ones who give hobbyists a bad name, and should be kicked out of any club meeting they show up at.

      I would appreciate letters from any one who wants to pay up, or has a suggestion or comment. Just write to me at 1180 Alvarado SE, #114, Albuquerque, New Mexico, 87108.
      Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software. Bill Gates General Partner, Micro-Soft

    14. Re:What are you talking about? by CAIMLAS · · Score: 2, Interesting

      In my mind, MS has always been akin to the Japanese market in terms of "innovation". They don't make anything conceptually new, but they sure as hell improve on (in some way or another) other people's ideas and make them profitable. One of those improvements (at least if you're not sitting on the Linux bench) is a very integrated operating environment. If there's one thing MS has done, that is it: integration. OS X doesn't seem to have gotten that far along in terms of integration yet, even, and KDE only has recently.

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
  3. Yet Another Duplicated Story by spectecjr · · Score: 5, Funny

    ... and a pretty badly written, incoherent, biased, and decidedly uninformed story too, to be honest.

    The guy may well have worked at MS once, but it didn't take long for him to become a Born Again Mac User.

    --
    Coming soon - pyrogyra
  4. Here's my thought on the editors by SilentChris · · Score: 3, Funny

    It's kind of science-fictiony, but I believe when they go to work, the Slashdot editors are put in darkened rooms where they can't see, hear, or talk to anyone about anything. They're not permitted to look at previous stories -- heck, they barely know what Slashdot looks like. It's more of a slavery under a cult than a profession.

    I mean, what other way to explain the fact that stories get repeated again and again?

    1. Re:Here's my thought on the editors by Patrik_AKA_RedX · · Score: 2, Funny
      I mean, what other way to explain the fact that stories get repeated again and again?
      CRT do cause memory loss. I could prove it, but I forgot where I left the URL.
  5. Re:I'm not even registered an I know this is a dup by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Yes, but will you be smart enough to dupe only the articles that make Microsoft look bad?

    It's the bias that pays.

  6. Microsoft doesn't want to innovate by pedantic+bore · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Microsoft has never been big on technical innovation (although when it comes to licensing and marketing, they've come up with some new tricks). They've done a few new things here and there, but their time-tested strategy is to let other companies do the pioneering research and develop markets, and then either buy those companies and/or steamroller them and take the market. They don't take risks because they don't need to.

    --
    Am I part of the core demographic for Swedish Fish?
    1. Re:Microsoft doesn't want to innovate by pedantic+bore · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Hey, I never mentioned linux, but if you want to pursue this...

      Linux started off with a fairly conservative goal: implement the UNIX syscall interface. I'm not saying this is easy, I'm just saying that it is not particularly innovative from a technical perspective. (The open source model and development methodology were a bit more innovative, but not unique.) And Linux succeeded for the same reason that MS succeeds -- it let other companies take the risk of figuring out what should and shouldn't be in the kernel, and leveraged the GNU suite of apps to create a complete, usable system. The time was right and there was very little risk.

      At present, Linux is a bit more innovative; people use it as a platform for research, and that research (when it works out) finds its way back into the kernel. But again there is little risk-taking because nobody really wants there to be -- nobody wants to break the world. As a result, you can still use your first edition of "The UNIX Programming Environment" (circa Seventh Edition) as a useful reference to programming on Linux. I don't expect that to ever change.

      --
      Am I part of the core demographic for Swedish Fish?
  7. Re:Deja Vu? by BandwidthHog · · Score: 4, Funny

    Yeah, but I didn't get around to reading the comments after I read the original article, so thanks slashdot!

    --

    Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
  8. Re:Deja Vu? by JasdonLe · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Yes, but check THIS out!

    --
    ** A Sketch a Week **
    http://www.sketchplease.com
  9. customer experience by davids-world.com · · Score: 4, Interesting

    the fact that apple delivers a better costumer experience has much more to do with vertical integration (hardware + OS + drivers + application) rather than the fact that they embrace open source.

    what open source did for apple was that they could provide a whole bunch of services in a compatible, attractive fashion that would have been very costly to develop. M$ doesn't really need that, they have their own services (web server, file server, databases etc) already.

  10. Well.... by Rick+Zeman · · Score: 4, Funny

    ....at least this iteration of the article had a catchier headline. We'll see how next week's will stack up.

  11. C'mon... honestly. by dotslashconfig · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Yes, Darwin as a UNIX platform is open-sourced. But honestly, can you really say that Apple has "embraced open-source" anything without cracking a smile?

    Last I checked, they were the one of the largest proponents of proprietary software/hardware. Granted, they have let up a little bit in releasing development tools for packages like iTunes. But all the same, that's a long ways from embracing free and open source code.

    Also, Apple tends to lean HARD on Microsoft for office tools. In that vein, can you really say Apple has diverged from the path Microsoft set? I'd argue no.

    1. Re:C'mon... honestly. by christurkel · · Score: 2, Informative

      Apple has been huge in the BSD community. It employs FreeBSD developers and it donates hardware, time and money to both the BSDs and independent developers.

      --

      CDE open sourced! https://sourceforge.net/projects/cdesktopenv/
  12. You know... by Ikn · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If the shoe fits, wear it. If the software sells, sell it. But you can only fix up and re-sell the same shoe brand before the customers start wanting something different.

    --
    I know nothing
  13. Dupe by Puggs · · Score: 2, Insightful
    A Former Microsoftie Forecasts Microsoft Doom

    Posted by michael on 03/06/04 13:13

    from the watch-out-for-cacodemon-bob dept.

  14. Obligatory Matrix rip. by neuro.slug · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Funny.. deja vu"

    "What was that?"

    "Nothing, I just saw an article on Slashdot, and then I an article just like it again."

    "Was it the same article?"

    "Could've been, yeah."

    "Deja vu is when something changes in the Matrix."

    "Oh no, the way is blocked..."

    "...and there are Penguins coming after us!"

    -- n

  15. You're absolutely right! by Overly+Critical+Guy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Microsoft never innovates or popularizes a single idea!

    Hang on while I go install KDE with a taskbar, start menu, integrated filesystem/net browser, Mono, etc....

    --
    "Sufferin' succotash."
    1. Re:You're absolutely right! by steffl · · Score: 5, Informative

      "KDE with a taskbar, start menu, integrated filesystem/net browser, Mono"

      those are not MS innovations. There were number of different docks, launchpads, root menus etc. in X, OS/2, MacOS, taskbar and start menu are nothing new (i.e. not significantly different from the others). You could do cd ftp://ftp.uu.net in midnight commander since before MS new Netscape would be a threat. .net (Mono in gnome world) is MS response to Java, nothing new/innovative.

      erik

      --
      ...all excited, don't know why...
    2. Re:You're absolutely right! by Overly+Critical+Guy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      those are not MS innovations

      They're not Linux innovations either.

      It's okay for KDE/GNOME to shamelessly rip everything off, but not Microsoft?

      The point still stands. Windows 95 popularized the taskbar, start menu, and more. Windows 98 popularized the integrated filesystem/net browser. All are used in KDE, and most in GNOME.

      --
      "Sufferin' succotash."
    3. Re:You're absolutely right! by LMCBoy · · Score: 4, Informative

      KDE and GNOME copy Windows because they want to steal market share from MS

      I can't speak for GNOME, but I am a KDE developer, and I don't know of any KDE devs whose motivation is that they want to "steal market share from MS". KDE is not a company; therefore we are not "competing" with MS. We're just trying to build a very useable desktop on un*x. You can argue all you want about whether the fact that we use the WIMP desktop model represents a massive failure of imagination, or a simple recognition of a system that works. I just wanted to object to your wrong assumption about the motivation of KDE devs.

      --
      Liberal (adj.): Free from bigotry; open to progress; tolerant of others.
    4. Re:You're absolutely right! by spitzak · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Popularized" is not "invented"

      Now for some sanity: Microsoft DID invent some stuff, there are ideas in Windows 95 that I have not seen elsewhere before it, except in some of my own experiments (I did the exact same divider-less graphics for window borders in the "ViewKit" I wrote for NeXT, but I doubt Microsoft stole it from me).

      1. The "taskbar" contained both opened and closed windows. All systems I have seen before then only showed closed windows, opened windows were either not represented or where in a different navigator.

      2. The "taskbar" was the first indication that somebody has realized that text is important. They shrunk down the "icon" as small as possible (probably somebody at Microsoft tried to get rid of them, but was stopped by the "experts" who think easy-to-use == pictures). And they made the text in the taskbar icon prominent.

      3. They got rid of the divider line between the window borders and the contents and made thw windows look a lot more like unified objects. (for some reason they have reverted to old-fashioned graphics today, unfortunatly the good graphic desiginers they had on Windows95 have apparently been replaced by Enlightenment geeks with no clean graphic sense whatsoever).

      4. They supported drag-resize of windows, and hacked their system so it was fast enough to draw this on existing machines, rather than punting like far faster Unix machines were doing.

      5. I belive Microsoft is responsible for a lot of the linking of "program to run" to the file itself. Every system I have ever seen before that required an explicit indicator as to the program to run. Apple's files contained this indication (the creator id) and is thus not exactly what Microsoft did. Now this could be done a whole lot better, such as using a program like Unix "file" to figure it out, and there is ZERO support at an os level (why isn't there a system call to exec a file?), but before Windows this idea did not exist.

    5. Re:You're absolutely right! by NanoGator · · Score: 2, Insightful

      " those are not MS innovations."

      The point is that there's nothing wrong with the "If it works..." model.

      Bashing MS for 'lack of innovation' is rather tired these days. They have their moments. They have their blunders. So does every other industry leading company out there. Nobody spews innovation from every pore, especailly the Open Source Community. (Note: That's a reference to the previous post, not some blind cheap shot.)

      Frankly, innovation can be just as much about implementation as it is about concept. Yeah, the Newton was cool. But does that really take the wind out of Palm Pilot's sails? It's easy to oversimplify and say there was nothing innovative about the product, but you have to overlook that Palm single-handedly created a new market measured in the millions in order to dismiss them so readily. Like or hate Microsoft, Office is pretty damn cool. Spreadsheets have been done before. Todo/Task lists have been done before. Word processing has been done before. Etc. But I can copy/paste from a Spreadsheet into a Task item, and then modify the numbers inside of it. My PocketPC will connect to my tasklisk and synchronize with it. If I copy/paste from Word in to Frontpage, it keeps all the formatting etc. Each of those features may not have been invented by MS, but collectively, it is very unique. Hence the reason why Office is so popular comes sharply into focus.

      Getting back onto the main topic that we're discussing here, I do agree with the idea lack of innovation is going to hurt MS. Truth be told, I use Office 2000 still. Though I do play with some of the nicer features of it, there's nothing new that's come along that would make me want to get the latest version, short of security fixes that is. (ouch.) They either need to diversify into a new product line, or come up with something really really unique and interesting. Unfortunately, I'm having a VERY difficult time imagining what MS could do to make the latest version of Office a must-have. I dunno... maybe make PocketPC synchronization better. Ugh. (Hmm actually the PocketPC, given another generation or two, could breath renewed life into office.... but that's a rather theoretical discussion..)

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    6. Re:You're absolutely right! by fucksl4shd0t · · Score: 4, Informative

      Oh where do I start. ;)

      The "taskbar" contained both opened and closed windows. All systems I have seen before then only showed closed windows, opened windows were either not represented or where in a different navigator.

      Didn't Commodore's 2.0 version of Amiga Workbench support this? I recall it working as you describe...

      The "taskbar" was the first indication that somebody has realized that text is important. They shrunk down the "icon" as small as possible (probably somebody at Microsoft tried to get rid of them, but was stopped by the "experts" who think easy-to-use == pictures). And they made the text in the taskbar icon prominent.

      I don't see how this is invention. It's just a graphical design choice. Also a choice made by Commodore, where icons weren't always huge (unless you ran 3rd party software that made huge icons, which you could) and were always accompanied by text. The icon was supposed to be for quick usage, i.e. you could recognize a picture faster than you can read, but was never intended to stand on its own without text.

      They got rid of the divider line between the window borders and the contents and made thw windows look a lot more like unified objects. (for some reason they have reverted to old-fashioned graphics today, unfortunatly the good graphic desiginers they had on Windows95 have apparently been replaced by Enlightenment geeks with no clean graphic sense whatsoever).

      Aesthetic enhancements != invention

      They supported drag-resize of windows, and hacked their system so it was fast enough to draw this on existing machines, rather than punting like far faster Unix machines were doing.

      Quite the contrary, you needed a pretty fast 486 to do this. 33mhz at least, iirc, may have required Pentiums (although I knew people that ran win95 on 486s). On the other hand, Commodore Amiga also supported drag-resize of windows, and there was third-party software that would make it redraw the contents while resizing (I recall Macs at the time doing it too, and this was 1988), and they could do it on 7 mhz 68000 machines.

      I belive Microsoft is responsible for a lot of the linking of "program to run" to the file itself. Every system I have ever seen before that required an explicit indicator as to the program to run. Apple's files contained this indication (the creator id) and is thus not exactly what Microsoft did. Now this could be done a whole lot better, such as using a program like Unix "file" to figure it out, and there is ZERO support at an os level (why isn't there a system call to exec a file?), but before Windows this idea did not exist.

      Um, there is a system call to exec a file, assuming you're talking about executing a file. All Microsoft did was attach extensions to filenames. UNIX has always had MIME types, as far as I know, that define what content is in the file. More recently MIME types include extensions as part of the definition, but not always. There're headers in files that tell you what kind of content it is.

      As far as opening a data file and it automatically opening the application that created it (or at least *an* application the user has installed that can open that type of file), um, again Commodore Amiga had this in, what, 1986? Yeah, that sounds about right. ;)

      Commodore's Amiga was a very innovative machine, but even then the OS just ripped a number of things from previous existing work, because the OS was just thrown together to get the box out the door and into people's houses. I'm not claiming that Commodore or the Amiga folks innovated these things we're discussing, I'm only pointing out where it was already being used before Microsoft "innovated" it. ;)

      --
      Like what I said? You might like my music
  16. Not really by Mark_MF-WN · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Publically owned companies are often judged by their profits, as a percentage. Windows and Office have massive profit margins, thanks to their now-minimal upkeep costs. New ventures, on the other hand, would decrease profits because they would have a high investment cost. It's irrelevant that in the long run they will increase profits, because investors are a bunch of gullible sheep who lack the ability to think in the long-term.

  17. No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Microsoft was not the first to either invent or implement the start menu, the integrated file system / net browser, or the safety-checked bytecode-based API. In fact with all of these they were literally years and years behind other commercially successful implementations.

    Now that you mention it, Microsoft may well have been the first to use the task bar window switching concept. Well, bravo Microsoft! Too bad it isn't a terribly good concept. And come to think of it, it isn't one that many linux/unix GUIs actually use.

    The fact that KDE was even later with some concepts than Microsoft does not make Microsoft creative. Last I checked KDE was a very small-scale project struggling just to stay alive. I don't see anyone promoting them as harbringers of innovation, making your attack on them really something of a straw man.

    1. Re:No. by RickHunter · · Score: 2, Informative

      And despite that, they still are. They're one of the few desktop environments that supports Mac OR Windows style menus out of the box, and a host of other things that just plain Make Life Easier.

      Oh, and Microsoft didn't do the taskbar window-switching concept first. OS/2 and a number of commercial Windows enhancement shells (all long-since dead) all used it. A bunch of programs also used it for MDI stuff.

  18. MacOS saved the planet! by geekee · · Score: 3, Funny

    "Apple, in contrast, has embraced Open Source and is delivering a better consumer experience."

    Yes, MacOS can even interface with alien technologies and introduce a virus into the alien technologies to save the Earth!

    --
    Vote for Pedro
  19. Changing brands doesn't fix problems... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    "But in the first five minutes on my new Mac, I was surfing the Internet, sending e-mail, and ripping a CD. OS X has been a breath of badly needed fresh air after Windows."

    You rate your entire OS of the 5-minute out of box experience!? You can get the same effect by changing shampoo...

  20. Micro$oft is not the first by LorenzoV · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Recall in recent memory how IBM held on to the mainframe business (S/360 derived products) in the face of small systems products nearly sinking the company.

    My own former employer, Amdahl, held on, right along with the IBM company to that same cash cow model. Amdahl was not as resilient as IBM and now is gone. ... From lightbulb to number 200 on the Fortune 500, to out of business in 30 years!

    I got mine. You get yours.

  21. Isn't that what subscribers were for? by Overly+Critical+Guy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Serious question. I could have sworn Taco said subscribers would be aiding in the editorial process...

    We get dupes just as before, at an alarmingly increasing rate.

    --
    "Sufferin' succotash."
  22. Apple's embraced open source? by autopr0n · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The OSX core that's OSS'd isn't really that important, or had that much of an impact on the OSS world as a whole. There are a few decent Kernels out there that people are free to use, and work fine. I mean we're not seeing RedHat/Darwin or anything like that yet.

    When Apple Opens Aqua, or iTunes/iMove/etc. Then you might be able to claim they've embraced it. Until then, they're just using OSS as a tool, same as many other companies. Microsoft on the other hand is trying as hard as they can, and coming off rather insane (just listen to their GPL == teh eval rants).

    ----

    Anyway, the premise of this story is rather laughable. What sane company would "innovate" their way out of the products that actually make them the most money. It would be suicidal, and the stockholders would kick your ass to the curb (or sue you if they couldn't). Also, those products allow Microsoft to peruse innovation in other areas, which they wouldn't be able to if they didn't have the cash.

    --
    autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
  23. If they don't "get it" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Then why are they so wildly, unprecedentedly successful both in terms of installed base and money?

    Seems to me they certainly got something right.

  24. fanboys just aint cool by Kunta+Kinte · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Apple, in contrast, has embraced Open Source and is delivering a better consumer experience."

    What is up with you people and Apple?!!

    My God! Give it a rest.... Please. You're killing us here!

    I can't get away from the Apple worship even if I block apple stories. It's everyway.

    Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Apple. But Apple is just another Corporation who's goal, as with all other corporations is to, *gasp*, maximize profits for its shareholders.

    Ironically Sun ( http://sunsource.net ) and IBM has done orders of magnitude more for Open source than Apple. And at least Sun gets beaten up everyday here. Apple though is worshipped to the point that it is frickin' nauseating to the rest of us.

    Come on guys, fanboys just aint cool.

    --
    Based on upvotes, Ageism is the only "-ism" Slashdotters care about and think isn't SJW
    1. Re:fanboys just aint cool by CoughDropAddict · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The blurb didn't say "Apple is benevolent and worth of praise." It also didn't say "Apple has done the most for open source." It said:

      (1) Apple has embraced open source (they use it where it is appropriate, and often give back (KHTML, gcc))
      (2) Apple is delivering a better consumer experience.

      Sun gets beaten up because they are schizophrenic and have no clear vision.

      Apple is often praised because they build things that people want and enjoy using (they have to because Microsoft is the default choice unless something else wins them away). Not because people think they are selfless angels.

  25. Microsoft's Lack of Innovation by linguae · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This makes a lot of sense. Microsoft hasn't innovated anything for years, if at all. After crushing its competitors (Netscape, WordPerfect, etc.), Microsoft hasn't really made any viable updates to its software. Take Windows for example. The first few versions of Windows were bad and it didn't take until Windows 3.0 until Microsoft finally made it usable enough for developers to develop on it. Windows 95 was probably at Windows's peak. It's interface was very usable, didn't really get in the way, and had a lot of developers.

    But then, Windows's quality deteriorated beginning with Windows 98, when Microsoft integrated Internet Explorer as a means to kill Netscape (and when Windows now had a 95% market share). However, as many people on this board know, integrating a browser to an operating system causes all sorts of problems, and Windows has gone downhill ever since. Windows XP, for example, is more stable than Windows 95/98, but it suffers from more worms than those operating systems, it's "eye candy" (if that's what you call it) is really an eye sore, and the interface gets in the way (compare the Find dialog in Windows 95/98 to the Find command in Windows XP, you'll see a difference). Ditto for Office, last time I checked, Clippy is still there. Microsoft Word has a lot of other annoyances (ever tried outlining there? It's a pain).

    Now, look at Apple. Apple has made a lot of innovations within its whole lifetime. It was the first to bring the graphical user interface to the secretary's desk (Apple Lisa and Apple Macintosh). Apple has made a lot of innovations that make many processes very easy (for example, in the old days, all you needed to do to network two Macs together was to connect a printer cable to each other, and then use Chooser to share files. No network configuration or anything. Try that on an old PC.). Finally, Apple took UNIX and fused the Mac OS with UNIX to make, after a long process that includes NeXT and Rhapsody, to create Mac OS X. Mac OS X is the only UNIX-based operating system where it is so easy for a non-geek to use without much difficulty, yet the UNIX pro could access the core using a few mouse clicks.

    Apple could be considered one of the masters of usability. The operating system never gets in the way of your work, you control the computer. This is different from the Microsoft approach, which is the computer controls what you do. This is exactly why Apple hasn't came out with something annoying like Clippy or that dog in the Find box in Windows XP.

    Microsoft needs to do something drastic with Windows and Office. Microsoft needs to start innovating, make Windows and Office user-friendly again, and finally make a stable version of Windows. Windows doesn't need a UNIX core (Microsoft spent tons of money on NT; besides, Microsoft adopting a UNIX core wouldn't be innovation), but Windows should be stable enough to use on a regular basis without any problems. Microsoft should also fix many of its other applications, such as the rapidly deteriorating and antiquated Internet Explorer, and not integrate the browser with the operating system. Isn't it about time that Microsoft should learn that integrating a browser with an operating system causes instability within the operating system? It's like, whenever Microsoft finally takes control of something, they sit on their couches, raise the prices, and the quality of their applications deteriorate with each and every new release. Microsoft needs to innovate fast here, and improve its products.

    1. Re:Microsoft's Lack of Innovation by jwcorder · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I would have to disagree with you. Apple tends to innovate to the techno-conscience of us in the world. While MS tends to build to the dumber parts society or the comman man so to speak. Most people are happy having everything integrated into one thing. I know plenty of end users who love clippy and keep him turned on at all times.

      I think it's safe to say that as far as Windows goes, XP is my favorite. Sure I hate the integrated firewall and I am the first to turn of MDM and about 10 other worthless services. The first thing I do when I install Office, after the updating, is disable the assistant and turn off the damn startup pane.

      This is because I know better though. When you dumb yourself down to the 60 year old computer illiterates of the world, or the people who know just enough to get email, type a letter, and check the weather and sports scores. I think Microsoft does what it needs to do to own 95% of the market share.

      Apple has the developer and the super user innovation that keeps it fun and interesting and cool.

      Think of it like this, we have shoe repairmen in this world not because shoes are overly expensive or hard to get. We get our shoes repaired because they are comfortable and because we as humans do not like change. We fight it, and stay with what we are used to. This is the same reason why MS had to continue support of 98. Because many people still USE it!

      My point (it's in here somewhere I promise) is that MS isn't an innovator because it doesn't have to be. As long as people are running 98 in 2008 that is reason enough not too.

      --
      http://jayceecorder.blogspot.com
    2. Re:Microsoft's Lack of Innovation by HuguesT · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Microsoft now has a very strong research group located in various places around the globe: China, Europe, Australia, US, etc. These guys don't just innovate, they are in the process of inventing new and ambitious things. These guys are active in all the areas of computer science from computer vision to advanced databases.

      The problem is that sometimes big things start small. Look at the PC industry. It really started with home hardware kits, and now look where it's at. This shouldn't be a problem, but Microsoft is not interested in small things. They only want to corner billion dollar markets: they don't want to defocus their interest into thousands of little projects, only a handful of which will make it into a multi-million-dollar industry, and potentially one or two would break the billion dollar threshold. They don't have the patience.

      The reason for this is that they are the company with the largest market cap in history, and they need to deliver value for the shareholders. A new million-dollar Microsoft startup wouldn't even register on the investor's radar. Too many of these little companies failing would devalue the stock. The board would be accused of wasting the shareholders' money.

      The associated problem is that there aren't so many multi-Billion (with a B) markets around that are somehow associated with Microsoft core business. Microsoft is not in energy distribution or transport, they would probably suck at managing that (Microsoft Air, who would get on board?). That is why they are now fighting with the Sony, Palm and Google of this world. They want those markets and they want them bad.

      The problem is that they don't have a good customer relation image (they've worked very hard at appearing ruthless and uncaring, it seems) and they don't have a good track record of breaking into market where they don't have a monopoly. In these markets the traditional Microsoft tactics don't work (strongarm everybody). That is why they are currently losing lots of money in the console market.

      It is interesting to watch that despite Bill Gates' team famed smarts and they billions in cash in the bank, Microsoft is still having a hard time owning the world.

      It will be interesting to see how it all turns out. Can Microsoft break the conundrum of the big rich company hamstrung by its shareholders?

  26. I agree. by mfh · · Score: 2, Insightful

    > Microsoft never innovated BEFORE they had money.

    You hit it right on the head.

    Is Microsoft Money Crushing Microsoft?

    No, it's crushing me and everyone else who wants innovation, artistry and quality.

    --
    The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
  27. Right to Profit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Everyone has a "right to profit".

    However, a "perfect market" limits profits to near zero. With no barriers to entry in a business, which is a lot like "neglecting friction", competition will force prices down toward costs.

    A 100% markup is only possible if the barriers to entry in the field are high, which they are in this case.

    However, the barriers to entry are falling also. Once the OS or Office suite, or whatever are "good enough", the impetus for upgrades evaporate. At that point, competing products have a chance to catch up to the target of "good enough".

    Microsoft is suffering from "good enough" now. As are hardware makers. Most people don't use much, if any, more capabiity than was available in computers/software in 2000. Microsoft is dependent on people buying a new computer (and, implied, a new OS and Office suite) every couple of years. This was a workable model until the computers got "good enough", and has been suffering since then.

    1. Re:Right to Profit by cbr2702 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ahh, a duplicate post for a duplicate story. How fitting.

      --


      This post written under Gentoo-linux with an SCO IP license.
  28. Apple religion TOTALLY out of hand, and NOT Open by glomph · · Score: 2, Insightful

    100% agree with Kunte, the pro-Apple kowtowing is a pathetic joke. Apple deserves respect for their marketing and packaging, and for presenting a great alternative to the Microsoft hegemony/monopoly. But they do essentially NOTHING to support open source, have they released much of their proprietary code? They are using the 'steal-me-please' BSD stuff, just as Microsoft has, really they are not -that- much better. Being better than MS (yes, Apple actually DOES innovate on occasion!) does not make them gods. So cut out this religious shit already.

  29. Examples of Apple embracing and helping OSS by paulthomas · · Score: 2, Informative

    Yes, I can honestly say that Apple has embraced open-source.

    Apple's Web Kit is the only way that KHTML would have be on millions of Macs and PCs. Additionally, Apple commits changes back to the KHTML project. It's entirely symbiotic. Apple gets to use it in iTunes and Safari, and KDE gets the changes.

    Apple's Darwin Streaming Server is the OSS port of their QuickTime Streaming Server. Apple even provides binaries for Red Hat and Solaris. It is trivial to port.

    Apple was the first to throw major support behind zeroconf, an open networking standard, and provide libraries under OSS licenses to enable wide adoption.

    Apple employs Jordan Hubbard, a major contributer. Apple also puts out Darwin with Jordan's help.

    They do more if you're willing to look.

  30. Not an LCD by Amiga+Lover · · Score: 2, Informative

    If that's the brand new price it's an eMac, and they're not LCD, they're CRTs

    Not a bad CRT as CRTs go, but still a CRT.

  31. It's Not Money Crushing Them by Master+of+Transhuman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's Bill Gates and his corporate culture of 24-year-old computer-history illiterates.

    I saw a line recently that said, "The only thing of value passing through a politician's mind is a bullet."

    Same applies to Bill.

    Get rid of Gates and his toadies like Ballmer and Microsoft might use its 56 billion in cash to amount to something.

    As it stands, Longhorn is going to be a disaster and Linux is going to destroy Windows within the next ten or fifteen years - even though Linux really only has one major advantage - it's being worked on by people who at least care a little - people with at least some personal motivation - and it's cheap.

    --
    Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
  32. Why Apple is Right by mslinux · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm no apple fan, but here's the brillance of their switch from the old legacy operating system (os9) to their new, quasi-open source system (osX):

    1. They now have a super-computer ranked within the top 5 fastest systems in the world. Before osX, they weren't even on the list.

    2. They have a true multi-user operating system that has 30 + years of R&D behind it. Unlike Windows which began as a game-playing, home-using OS and has been modified into something it was never designed to be. Talk about baggage and cruft... all for what???

    3. Apple are leveraging the horde of BSD utils and devel skills out there. This saves them tons of money and gives them favor with the OSS crowds. One could argue that BSD isn't true open-source... RMS and other FSF/GNU proponents certainly would. In short, Apple isn't trying to be a big, altruistic company with true open-source (ie GNU/GPL) code, and they've never claimed to be trying to do that.

    Microsoft could learn a lesson or two from Apple on this... Hell, MS used BSD code in their tcp/ip stack. But, look how long it's taking MS to bring out Longhorn (their next gen OS). They'll be years behind when they finally come to market with it... we as consumers will see plenty of their old, historic OS in the mean time... XP reloaded anyone???

    "If you can measure what you speak of and express it by a number, you know something about your subject; but if you cannot measure it, your knowledge is meager and unsatisfactory."

  33. Offbase comments & Apple Haters by adzoox · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You actually had valid points eventhough I disagreed with them up until:

    "...yes, Apple actually DOES innovate on occasion!"

    Occasion? Are you kidding? Try every couple of 4-8 weeks. If not hardware, then software, if not software then delivery or distribution, if not delivery or distribution, then something completely off the wall comes out.

    You took the context of the article wrong too. It said Apple has embraced open source - and it was referring to the fact that Microsoft is fighting it. That has no connotations that Apple is open source itself.

    The article I believe means that Apple continues to produce award winning applications like iLife: iTunes, iPhoto, GarageBand, iDVD, iMovie - while Microsoft just puts mediocre apps like Movie Creator and claims it's a value.

    The article is essentially saying that Microsoft is so focused on apps that AREN'T selling computers and Apple IS!!

    --
    Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
  34. Innovation by M.+Baranczak · · Score: 5, Funny

    Microsoft was not the first to either invent or implement the start menu, the integrated file system / net browser, or the safety-checked bytecode-based API. In fact with all of these they were literally years and years behind other commercially successful implementations.

    That might be true, but lately I'm actually starting to see some signs of innovation and creative thinking coming from MS. The new "pop-up blocking" technology in Internet Explorer is a very good example.

  35. MacOS X is not "open source" by jbn-o · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We can't judge a company by only one of the things it does. MacOS X is not licensed under a license approved by the Open Source Initiative. Parts of that operating system are proprietary. Darwin may entirely be licensed under an open source license, but the convenience and features people associate with MacOS X are not found in Darwin.

    Furthermore, it's no accident that Apple has "embraced open source" because the open source movement's philosophy and criteria for license acceptance was crafted to cater to business.

    1. Re:MacOS X is not "open source" by fmaxwell · · Score: 2

      Furthermore, it's no accident that Apple has "embraced open source" because the open source movement's philosophy and criteria for license acceptance was crafted to cater to business.

      Apple's use of open source is simple: They get man-years of development for which they pay nothing. They then resell a product incorporating all of the open source and don't compensate the authors in any way. This is like trying to figure out why people prefer free things. It's not rocket science. It's not philosophy. It's not Apple making a statement about the ideals of the open source community. They have found a source of free labor. It's that simple.

      It's actually outsourcing taken to the next level. But instead of having programmers in India write their code for $3/hour, Apple gets the open source community to write it for $0 per hour/day/week/month/year.

    2. Re:MacOS X is not "open source" by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But instead of having programmers in India write their code for $3/hour, Apple gets the open source community to write it for $0 per hour/day/week/month/year.

      Only one problem: you can't tell them what to write. If they make something you can use, then that's great. Otherwise, it's no help. You also can't really sell a GPLed program or something based on a GPL application, as the comingling will force your code to be open. BSD is different, but the way OSS works, the OS layers are well suited to being packaged (like OSX), but the application layers work better (for a company) as closed source, or at least controlled source.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
  36. Late in the thread to post this, but . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    I the mid 80s I was working at Microsoft and a certain Gates anecdote sticks in my mind. I was sitting in the company cafeteria eating a PB&J when I was joined by Bill and someone else, already in conversation. If you remember, the Ollie North scandal was big then, and Ronald Reagan had just finished saying "I don't recall" for 3 days straight to Congress.

    The other person was saying to Bill, "so, if you woke up one day and discovered you were gay, who would your boyfriend be?" Various hunky idols were tossed out, but Bill was obviously uncomfortable with the topic.

    Then I said, "I would go out with Ronald Reagan. Because if I woke up straight the next day, he wouldn't remember a thing !"

    I thought of that conversation when I saw Bill's deposition on TV.

  37. I could help them by foidulus · · Score: 2, Funny

    with their excess revenue problem. Just send a little over here, I'll give it a good home!

  38. Is that why they spend so much on new projects!? by Skim123 · · Score: 2, Informative
    New ventures, on the other hand, would decrease profits because they would have a high investment cost.

    You seem to be implying that Microsoft doesn't spend money on new projects and ventures, but they do. I don't know what numbers he used to make the comparison, but at TechEd Steve Balmer said that Microsoft's budget on R&D each year is second only to Pfizer's. I believe MS spends tens of billions of dollars annually on research.

    --

    I could not justify my existence if I were a turkey farmer. Would I terminate myself? Undoubtably, yes.

  39. Duh by fr0dicus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What's the point in releasing innovative products when you've got the entire market stitched up? I bet they've got a whole raft of secret uber projects just waiting to soak up any unsuspected change in status. They're a company in it to make money, so of course they play their cards close to their chest.

  40. Gate's Mistakes by craXORjack · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Google Fills a Void
    The likely next step for Google is to offer its customers remote storage space, a virtual hard drive on which to store all of your files, share them with friends and colleagues, and access them from anywhere.

    Reifman suggests that Microsoft's salvation lies in signing up portions of the Windows user base for services (20 million x $19.95), but they've already been beaten to the punch on this one. Check out Novell's Virtual Office. Not only can you do these things with virtual office but you control the information because it's hosted on your own servers. This was the failing that Reifman pointed out for Microsoft's Passport service. Evidently Novell has learned from Gate's mistakes.

    --
    Liberals call everyone Nazis yet they are the closest thing to it.
  41. Re:Deja Vu? by wibs · · Score: 2, Funny

    Enough is enough. How many dupes of "this story is a dupe" do we really need?

    Oh, wait, then we wouldn't be hypocrites. Sorry.

    --
    If you get nervous, just remember that there are a few billion other people who don't really give a damn.
  42. Even if it's a re-post from last week by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm a .NET developer. 3 1/2 years ago I made the move from VC++/MFC to .NET (got one of the early betas), mainly C# and VB.NET. Since today, I've never been a "fan" of Microsoft, I just used their product since there was no alternative.

    Up to now.

    When I was moving from VC++/MFC, there was no Eclipse plattform, it just begun. The only Java IDE that would have been appropriate for the project I'm now working on was JBuilder - but we didn't have got enough money to equip a whole team of developers with JBuilder Pro 'cause JBuilder is *really* expensive.

    And 3 years ago, there also wasn't OpenOffice, Samba 3.0 or Ximian Evolution. All the really good productivity-tools have reached a usable state right now - and also our customers still fully rely on MS products. So what would you have done ?

    So we decided to got the MS way with .NET - MS really supports their developers (as you can imagine ;). But now I see, how fast everything goes, how IT changes. Of course I've got a parallel Linux installation on my Windows box since several years and I think I'm using it 50/50 of the time I'm using my home PC. I've been using Linux since Kernel 0.98, I received it on some 5 1/4 floppies some 10 years ago. So I'm no one who just jumps on the train because its "hip".

    If I read articles like *this one*, I don't think I will have a future as developer when staying only at .NET. Ok - I love the technical implementation of .NET, the strength of VS.NET and #develop - I think Java still needs some things that .NET has today.

    But I'm not convinced that MS can keep going like this - especially if Sun open-sources Java ...

    I think I will make the move over to Linux/OSS - I'm tired to be named a "Microsoft idiot", "closed-source-asshole" or something like that. I'm not responsible for what their doing. All I want to do is write *good*, *user-friendly* and *stable* software.

    I've trained myself really hard the last couple of years, eating up as much books on OOP-in-depth-theory, database optimization etc. and so on.

    But what I'm REALLY EXTREMELY FRUSTRATED ABOUT IS THE FOLLOWING : When people who just have started learning Java after they own a computer since 2 years treat ME LIKE AN IDIOT - especially me who has a really critical relationship to MS.

    This arrogance, this absolute male-specific boastful talk - that's hurting me really, because I know that I'm doing my best in database & OOP-design and I think I'm writing good code.

  43. It's worse than that... by monopole · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Recently a friend had the hard drive of his thinkpad crash. Faced with a considerable delay on a replacement IBM drive (seems they are replacing a lot of drives), He asked me if I could do anything about it. I said I'd install linux on a flash drive and mount it on his system. He asked if I could fit linux on the drive and my other friend noted that you could install linux on a Zippo lighter.
    Well a few hours later we had the 182 MB SLAX distibution up on his thinkpad and he's overjoyed with the functionality. Once we score a 1 GB drive we're putting a compressed Knoppix distro on.
    The point of thos story is that when a free as in beer and speech mini live-cd distro of open source gives you the majority of XP's vaunted capability we are approaching a tipping point.
    In a similar vein, my Zippo lighter friend is seriously considering using the Quantian Live CD distro for teaching his college courses.
    My third friend runs a mini-ITX system with WiFi I built for Christmas. Just to illustrate the point about the thinkpad I booted the SLAX distro on her system. It installed flawlessly and she couldn't find any difference from the Win 2k on the hard drive for her purposes.
    So fast forward to 1-2 years from now when nano-itx PCs with Knoppix burnt into ROM sell for $99 in bubble packs in Target and Wal Mart. Where does M$ stand then?

  44. Re:Microsoft Money by Saint+Stephen · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This headline is improper: it should be "Microsoft's money" not "Microsoft Money."

    The article never mentions the financial software anywhere. They do talk about Microsoft's cash on hand.

  45. Microsoft hasn't innovated.. but they CAN by mindstrm · · Score: 3, Interesting

    We always say microsoft has not innovated. WHat does that mean?

    It means that what they have chosen to release into the public, to market, has not been innovative.. and has often been mediocre. We don't really respect them for it at all, right?

    That doesn't mean that internally there is no innovation.. microsoft has a LOT of good programmers, and developers, and so-on... not everyone at microsoft is an MCSE know-it-all.. many are very talented, learned people.

    Given that, and given some examples that slip through (like Office for the mac.. it's actually quite a bit nicer than the windows version)... you can see that they are capable of producing good software that plays nice.

    The question is whether, as a company, they will choose to market such software.

    If most of their solid income is from corporate windows workstation & server licensing... a model that requires lock-in and a fairly closed minded development model to continue generating revenue from... then they will naturally persue that over, say, writing good mac software that everyone likes, yet making far less money.

    The problem, in short, is that they make the most money from their sleaziest practices...

  46. Re:I'm not even registered an I know this is a dup by bit01 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Only six zillion more /. dupe's to go to catch up to the Microsoft advertising dupe's. We're on track!

    ---

    First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

  47. Re:Innovation = copying after 5 years? by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I do not know what you regard as "new" and "innovative", not to speak of "technology".

    He's using sarcasm to make the point that what MS is just now trotting out has in fact existed in several places for several years. And that that's innovation, Microsoft style.

  48. Re:What a load! by Rev+Saxon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So your running a basically unpached XP box..... and your calling the guy who wrote this less than inteligent?

    --
    I am that much more enlightened and proportionally disillusioned
  49. Long-term stragegy by corian · · Score: 2, Funny

    I suppose the block put on Microsoft purchasing Quicken has been working... One popular little $20 program, yet it is bringing down the entire company.

  50. IBMs Cash Cow by CodeBuster · · Score: 3, Interesting

    One could argue that IBM is addicted to its mainframe revenue. They charge some hefty fees for maintenance and support of those monolithic relics. Any software company that is more than 10 yeras old has some sort of 'cash cow' which provides steady income. If you dont like that then buy newer technology, nobody is forcing anyone to buy anything. You cannot blame the crack cocaine dealer simply because he sells you what you need.

  51. It's true by epepke · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Microsoft has Kajiya and Blinn, two of the biggest names in computer graphics. At times I've seen some good stuff at SIGGRAPH from them. However, that's been dropping off over the past few years. The only marginally significant contribution from Microsoft last year was a fairly obvious way of laying out Wang tiles for large textures.

    Also, I've noticed that Blinn and Kajiya lack an entourage at SIGGRAPH. There was a time when if they projected an image of Blinn at SIGGRAPH, everybody cheered. Not any more.

  52. Some other microsoft "inventions" are amusing... by WebCowboy · · Score: 2, Funny

    Some other great Microsoft innovations:

    * A bold new method of shutting down a PC--After all, it's completely logical that the first step in the shutdown process should be to click the "Start" button.

    * The system registry--because everybody system needs a single point of failure stored in an opaque, obsfucated, hidden file accessible only through special utilities. You have the choice of getting lost in a giant tree of settings of a "friendly" user interface, with no "undo" button and the ability to cause your machine to stop booting. Alternatively, you can export to text, edit the file and re-import the fatal mistakes when you are done. Brilliant!

    * Integrating the GUI (and later the web browser) so tightly with the OS that the OS cannot fully function without them. After all, it's very important to sqeeze the best performance possible out of the graphics system so you can have richly animated menu appearance effects and have the contents of the windows adjust as you drag and resize. That's especially important on a server where the administrator can be watching the screen a whole five percent of the time it's on right?

  53. Re:To be fair... by symbolic · · Score: 2, Interesting


    I can't stand the way that KDE and most (if not all) Linux apps handle task-bar-like functionality. For example....if I click on a window that belongs to the Gimp, only that one window is made active. The Gimp is an app, and an app usually consists of a collection of windows, palettes, etc - when I activate an app, ALL of the associated windows should be brought forward, not just the one. The way it is now, I have to fish each window out of the pile separately, and that is a pain.

  54. Re:Pathetic. by rgelb1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think, what the guy above you meant is that Open Source makes sense to companies that are looking to commoditize products popularized by OSS.

    For instance, it is in IBM's interest to commoditize functions such as Operating systems and web servers because they sell a lot of middleware on top of these products. Note that they are not participating in any OSS application server projects.

  55. Apple and open source by dekeji · · Score: 2, Informative

    Yes, Apple's strategy is a good one in principle: they are leaving the commodity software development up to open source and they are adding value to it with brand-specific software development.

    The trouble with Apple is that they are probably drawing the line in the wrong place. Apple seems to seriously believe that there is value in Quartz and Cocoa and they are spending a lot of engineering effort on it. But, in reality, there are no graphics capabilities in Quartz that aren't present in modern X11 systems, and an Objective-C based toolkit is merely a burden these days. You could easily create a GUI that looked and felt just like Aqua on top of X11, and ran faster to boot.

    That leaves me wondering: is Apple doing this deliberately? Maybe they do want to "own the platform" after all, not for technical reasons but for the same reasons as Microsoft and Sun: to control it and entangle their developers in proprietary APIs. Maybe Apple figured out that you don't have to be 100% proprietary in order to have a captive audience, 50% proprietary is enough. Or can they really be so confused that they think Quartz and Cocoa add value to the platform? And how "open source" are the open source components of OS X anyway--I don't mean legally, but I mean in terms of development--Darwin isn't exactly a hot, widely used open source project.

    Altogether, it's unclear to me that Apple really has changed so much. They are, of course, under no obligation to use an open source desktop or open source toolkits, but as long as they don't, they are still delivering a proprietary system with all the consequences that that entails; in particular, if you develop for the Macintosh GUI, your software will not run on any other platform without a lot of porting efforts.

  56. Re:To be fair... by fucksl4shd0t · · Score: 2, Informative

    if I click on a window that belongs to the Gimp, only that one window is made active. The Gimp is an app, and an app usually consists of a collection of windows, palettes, etc - when I activate an app, ALL of the associated windows should be brought forward, not just the one.

    Right-click the GIMP windows (you are running a KDE that groups all windows from one app together, right?) select "MOve all to Desktop->pick an empty desktop". Now when you want to bring the GIMP to the front, click on the desktop on which it sits.

    I tend to have the GIMP on 2, Blender on 1, and Mozilla, a terminal, and a few odds and ends on 3, while I'm doing graphical work. And I go ahead and let KDE put all applications on all desktops in the process bar so I don't have to remember which desktop each app is on, I can just click on *any* GIMP window and KDE'll automatically take me to the whole GIMP.

    --
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