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Ontario Schools License StarOffice
An anonymous reader writes "Sun Microsystems has signed a contract with the Ontario Ministry of Education in one of the biggest deals yet for its StarOffice software. It covers 72 public and parochial school boards in Ontario. All will be licensed to use StarOffice 7 on all school-owned PCs. Financial details weren't disclosed but Ontario school officials said the cost is 'minimal.'" Reader Apostata adds that the move "will see the application suite used by 2.5 million students. No word on whether it ships with 'Canadian English' pack ;)"
It's about time some major organization, even a non-profit, started using StarOffice, or OOo.
This is not the sig you're looking for.
Why not get support for very little money. Sun has such a low cost per seat that there would have been no point to using OOo instead of SO. Perhaps you would like to see development in OOo slow down, because if SO does not make Sun money, that's exactly what will happen.
But they want the SUPPORT that comes with StarOffice.
Oh my that's funny. And so original.
/bows
Yes, just like everything else on Slashdot. I have a carefully targeted audience.
I had but a simple dream, to destroy all humans.
Corel had a huge deal with the Ontario Board of Education a few years back, to get WordPerfect onto every computer. They got it installed... but nobody used it. The Microsoft hold was too strong by then. And this was like 2000. I don't think this had changed...
I recall talking to the "computer" teacher/sysadmin at the time, suggesting WordPerfect or StarDivison's Staroffice on the additional Word licenses the school held. His answer was basically "but nobody will use it." Educators after all aren't accountable for costs like private businesses would be.
Doing the Right Thing should not be preempted by making a buck.
As a Canadian, I was going to make this very joke, but I was beat to the punch.
;)
However, I would like to know from those Americans on Slashdot: Where the heck does "aboot" come from? I have never met anyone in Canada that pronounces "about" as "aboot". Do any of you know where this originates?
(PS: "Zed" not "Zee"
Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
Well it is somewhere, the problem is that no one cares to look for it unless the money is declared missing by the opposition party. I believe on a whole we trust our government a slight bit more, until that it is it's brought to our attention. Good thing there is a federal election here on June 28th, god willing a minority liberal government will be in control.
PS for Canadian Slashdot'ers: Voting is as easy as ABC, Anybody But Conservative
Happy Noodle Boy says "F###ing doughnut! Mock me? You fried cyclops!!"
Flamebait or no, time and time again socialism and liberalism is proven to be the most inefficient form of government.
spelling and grammer errors brought to you by California's finest public education.
I would be much better if you could suggest a filter that they could use within MS Office to read and write OO.o files directly.
Once OO.o reaches a 15%-20% marketshare, the battle is won as you can then demand they read your files not that they need to be "translated"
Help fight continental drift.
Before everyone starts complaining about why they didn't use a free alternative like OOo, look at the Star Office 7 link in the summary. It IS free for educational use:
Education No license fees; cost of media and shipping
It was probably cheaper than trying to burn and distrubute thousands and thousands of OOo CDs, since most schools don't have CD burners available that would be able to produce a quantity like that. They bulk of the 'minimal' amount of money probably went to a support contract.
Microsoft is not going to let this happen, and I think I know what they will do. First, drastic price cuts will be implemented followed by the creation of additional tools and resources for schools and teachers.
The reason Microsoft will refuse to give in, even if it means that they might lose a load of money in the short run, is because they understand that if they can get students hooked while they are young, they can keep perpetuating a monopoly. My younger siblings want Microsoft Word/Powerpoint/Excel on their computer/laptop simply because they know it from school.
It will be a tough fight if larger inroads are made, because Microsoft will certainly retaliate. Another problem is schools are still able to opt for Microsoft Office instead, which many of them will certainly do.
So, about this "oot and aboot" business... it's just plain wrong.
/aI/ diphthong is pronounced [@I]. (This is much more common in America than the /aU/ portion of Canadian Raising, too, so it's less widely mocked this side of the border.)
;)
Though for Americans "aboot" is what might sound closest to many Canadians' pronunciation of the word "about," it isn't correct. The sound present in some dialects of Canadian (and American!) English results from a phonological process known as Canadian Raising . The "ow" sound is pronounced pretty universally in America as [aU]--i.e. a diphthong whose first element is like the a in father and whose second is like the u in put. However, before a voiceless segment (basically a consonant during whose articulation one's vocal chords are not vibrating), the first element is raised to an "uh"-like sound; i.e., the u in tuck. This also applies to the so-called "long i," in which the
So, yeah, "oot and aboot" is wrong. That is all.
Actually, America didn't have the chance to 'hold over' the use of -'ise' in verbs. When America was still a colony (colonies, if you prefer), the British actually used -'ize', which was the original form. It wasn't until the 1800s, when they decided to emulate spelling changes in the language of their neighbours across the channel, that they changed to -'ise'. The Americans, of course, had already mostly established their language (and their country), and didn't have the influence of the French like the British did, so they left theirs -'ize'.
Coincidentally, even some British schools of grammar continue to use -'ize'. (Oxford, for example -- the traitors.)
... Training students with a suite of programs that (unfortunately) aren't used by most of the corporate world?
Yes, it's good for StarOffice to gain a foothold in the next generation. But being proficient in it won't get you a job.
Its for schools. They havn't been trained at all yet.
Get em while they're young :)
"spelling and grammer errors brought to you by California's finest public education" Make that: spelling and grammar errors brought to you by someone who'd rather blame the system than learn some shit on his/her own.
It doesn't matter what the motivation is. They could have switched from Microsoft because little green men from Mars made them. The bottom line is, the sooner we can de-indoctrinate (is that a word?) people from Microsoft products, and in greater amounts, the sooner they will go away.
Our school district uses OO, and we don't burn CD's. That's what network shares are for. For unconnected machines, sure - you can use a CD - we techs have them. A user could burn a copy if needed.
It's easier to network-install 3-5 copies rather than popping CD's in and out anyhow, and I'd imagine most PC's are not standalone these days.
I mean, maybe you don't want to work for a company with such policies anyway, but often HR is quite separate from where you'll actually be working... if you get the job.
Not that I have real world experience, being a professional student at this point. I'm just pessimistic and cynical when it comes to cracking the MS stranglehold.
Windows free since 2000
Error 404 - Sig Not Found
Anybody remeber the "Logo" computer that was developed by the Ontario Ministry of Education. In the eary PC days. (No, I don't mean the Logo language.)
Yeah, why should teachers be paid more than plumbers? They only take care of our children, not toilets, which everyone knows are more important.
Unlimited growth == Cancer.
Talk to some Maritimer then. especially someone with a thick Newfie accent.
"I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
"The bottom line is, the sooner we can de-indoctrinate (is that a word?) people from Microsoft products, and in greater amounts, the sooner they will go away."
Oh brother. So your motivation is "destroy Microsoft"? You just hate them, so be gone with them? +5 Insightful?
Look, I'm not exactly in love with Microsoft here, but the reason that they're in this monopoly in the first place is they have made a VERY useful app. Spare me the "Oh they made a monopoly out of nothing and then put a gun to millions of people's heads" theories, as long as people are complaining that the alternatives are missing features then the Microsoft 'doctrine' is going to remain quite strong.
It's cool that somebody took a leap and started using Open Office, but man, don't turn this into a "ding dong MS is dead" pitchfork party.
"Derp de derp."
They still have too much too much money if they license StarOffice, instead of just installing OpenOffice for free.
I'd love to say an anti-socialist system works any better. Here in the public schools of Seattle, teachers are paid peanuts, textbooks still refer to the Soviet Union as current politics, the buildings are poorly maintained (in favor of a current rebuilding/remodelling phase which was thirty years overdue), the boys' bathrooms don't have paper towels or doors to the stalls, but (almost) every classroom has at least one nice and shiny Dell with WinXP.
Now there is no problem with paying teachers and administrators more money, but don't you think they should do a better job to earn it?
Sure. But cut their classes in half (from an average of thirty students to an average of fifteen) before judging their teaching ability.
I wonder if they have same kind of a setup than in my school where both M$ Office and StarOffice are installed. Microsoft provides very cheap school agreements so there isn't a big incentive to choose only StarOffice. And guess which one of the office suites is used primarily in my school.
Many, myself among them, would say that it's more to do with bundling and intimidation of OEMs who offered alternatives. Certainly MS Office does the job, but given an hour to get used to it, WordPerfect's suite, IBM's SmartSuite, or several other lesser-known ones would satisfy the vast majority of users. If you've ever been in a real office and watched people using it, most never stray from: enter text, style by clicking on the formatting bar, print/save/send.
The problem I can see for Microsoft is that once something like Open/Star Office reaches a certain point (say 20%), Microsoft could get into deep trouble. At that point, everyone will know someone who uses Star/Open Office.
The biggest challenge for Open Office isn't quality of product. It's awareness and confidence.
. Spare me the "Oh they made a monopoly out of nothing and then put a gun to millions of people's heads" theories
don't turn this into a "ding dong MS is dead" pitchfork party
I didn't see either of these statements in the post you were replying to. Nice collection of strawmen you have there -- are they made from official astroturf?
deus does not exist but if he does
Why should Windows users be "cured". It's an operating system that is easy to use, is widely supported and easy to support. I have a Red Hat 9 box that runs like a champ but can be a pain in the butt sometimes and I'd hate like hell to support it over the phone to family. I haven't had a virus since ?Elvira? back in 94 or 95, and that's though using various Windows boxes from 88' to present. .02
I'd LOVE to see Linux become mainstream, but it still ain't there yet. It's a differnt OS for a different purpose/user.
Just my
--
The Marines: The few, the proud, the not very bright. - Slashdot tagline 04/21/05
StarOffice comes out in regular, supported editions, much easier than managing a large deployment of various OpenOffice versions with noone to fall back on for advice.
Give millions of students a chance to take their first steps in Open/Star Office, and alternatives to MS may seem more viable as a choice for large office environments, where user confusion is a major cost threat.
Kiwaiti
Member of the Legion Of Microsoft Haters
Not only does Ontario have a multitude of high schools...they also have several world-class Universities. University of Toronto, University of Waterloo, Queens, and McMaster are just naming a few. I myself go to U of Waterloo and I know that in our engineering labs we're given the choice of using either OpenOffice or MS Office (forced to use OpenOffice in some of the lower budget labs). Now who attends Ontario Universities? Ontario students! If these students develop a preference for Star/OpenOffice, it's likely that you'll start to see MS Word disappear from our institutions of higher learning. Once you have everyone familiar with StarOffice and Netscape 7.x (it's offered as an alternative to IE on all school machines, despite the fact it's clunky as sin), a full switch to a Linux-based environment is just a hop, skip and a jump away. Now if only some of the more specializing companies made linux ports of their software.
RE "...can't access documents created by the other 98% of the world?"
if formats were open it would not be an issue. The closed formats are to retain a monopoly. Moreover, if a competing office software gained even 20% share you might see those <b><i>glorious</i></b> documents in other formats.
Been there and done that my friend. Here's the reasons I put forth:
.DOC is hardly a 'standard' just ask anyone whose tried to convert old 'Works' documents.
1) Take a look through history - that's the 'real world'. Has it ALWAYS been MS Windows Office? I'll bet not. In fact, I'll bet it's been Wordperfect for DOS and Windows, Xywrite, Word for DOS and Windows, etc. The fact is that computer software evolves quickly, and your principal needs to get over it.
First and foremost, educational facilities shouldn't be pushing a particular brand 'X' software either, particularly from a company convicted of monopolistic practices. Most of what needs to be done in OOo is completely translatable to Word or Wordperfect with minimal effort.
2) Everyone DOES NOT have MS Office at home. That's a crock. What versions might they have - it matters. Do you realize that many people buying a Dell now are getting Wordperfect as a default office suite? What about older, incompatible versions of MS Office?
3) Win over the STAFF and get it in their homes. Let the staff see OOo in operation. Find out what their objections are (there will be some). Eliminate the unrealistic ones. Point out the advantages (they get a free copy, PDF/Flash support, etc.)
4) OOo or StarOffice is great and has been terrific for us because of standardization. Every student, teacher, and staff member uses it and guess what? Everything just works. No document incompatibilities because one document was formatted for someone else's printer. No issues with international characters. No licensing issues.
5) Which staff member was willing to take a pay cut to help finance Microsoft? That's the question I posed and what it was coming down to at the time. We were really in serious straights three years ago financially and things were tight. Money ended up being a prime motivator, but the software has proven itself over time.
Feel free to shoot me an email if you'd like to discuss this further. I'm also the tech coordinator of a small all-girls private school here in PA. We converted to StarOffice/OOo three years ago and haven't looked back.
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
I was talking about the companies these students will one day be working for. Imagine you are to buy something to allow basic word processing. If 80% of your workforce know MSWord, while 20% have never really used a computer at all, it's obviously easier in terms of training to buy what most know than to retrain them all. That's what people accuse Star Office of - not being MS.
If students familiarize themselves with Star Office rather than MS Office, not choosing MS Office will make more business sense in a few years.
Kiwaiti
Member of the Legion Of Microsoft Haters
Why become a teacher if you don't get payed well? Up here, in vancouver, thanks to unions, you can get payed just as much to be the shcool janitor AND you save yourself 5 years in college. This of course is two sperate problems rolled into one (skilled workers getting payed to little, unskilled workers getting payed to much) but it essentially means that, you are better off not getting a degree and working as a care aid or janitor, OR getting a degree in a trade or business. So why would you teach? The only people who go into teaching now are idealists who want to make the world a better place and it isn't long before they become jaded by the school system.
We need to give teachers a salary proportional to the work and skill that was required to get the job not just to keep them happy but to attract a wider range of candidates
The Neo-Bohemian Techno-Socialist
Holy sheit dude. I'd like to see you survive 5 minutes in a room full of homicidal/suicidal/hormonal maniacs.
I know I couldn't do it, but if I did - I would want to be damn well paid for it!!!
Ohhh! Pay Dirt! A pair of half-eaten choco-pants!
Obviously you are angry at the benefits teachers get because you don't think they deserve them.
A couple things to consider.
1) Teachers are part of a UNION. My father was in a union at a lumber mill and they were payed more than they were worth and the benefits were phenominal. The same goes for teachers. It is the way unions work.
2) Teachers have a quick burn-out rate. You think babysitting your bitchy kid is easy day in and day out? No, it isn't. Now add 30 more bitchy kids to the list.
3) Teachers are in high demand. High demand = more money/benefits.
You realize there are more than two parties you know.
I am pissed off at the Liberals too, but I am defiantly not going to help voting in a homo-phobic, anti-abortion right-wing wacko. I am voting NDP. And I would strongly urge any Canadian who values civil rights to do the same.
"i should i have clarified for the peanuts gallery that "they" are monopolistic organizations that conspire to limit choice, forcing people to use their overpriced (and in this case, unstable) products."
:)
I agree, you should spend more time making yourself clear. Now I know my statement was true.
As for 'forcing people', sorry bub, the market forced that. Microsoft tried (is trying?) to help it along, no denying that, but the the simple fact of the matter is that Microsoft could not possibly create a monopoly without a MASSIVE amount of people saying "we want this." It's funny what you'll observe when you push aside the "I hate the popular company to hate" feelings and just LOOK at what happened.
"does that make you feel better?"
Yes it does, thank you.
"better grab a kleenex and wipe that snot out of your nose."
I've heard a lot of impressive insults on Slashdot. That wasn't one of them. Heh. I'm sorry I made an obseration about how you are coming across. I should have used my telepathy to read what you didn't say.
"Derp de derp."