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Linux PVRs Highlighted

Posted by timothy on from the shifting-time-and-space dept.

foolinator writes "Yahoo News is featuring an article highlighting TiVO alternatives. This includes MythTV (my favorite), Freevo, and even sites on how to start as a newbie. All of us who subscribe to the mailing lists be prepared to help out the newbies as Linux PVRs become more mainstream."

49 of 264 comments (clear)

  1. TiVo uses Linux too! by mdrejhon · · Score: 5, Informative

    This is great -- more PVR software to help innovate PVR along.

    But remember, TiVo uses Linux too! There's a TiVo hacker forum here.

    1. Re:TiVo uses Linux too! by Moofie · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What does the GPL software have to do with the totally proprietary hardware system they have developed?

      Want a better hardware implementation of TiVo? Take the software and port it to your toaster. Quit whining that they're not doing what YOU want them to do. DIY.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    2. Re:TiVo uses Linux too! by cthrall · · Score: 4, Informative

      > things like MP3 playing

      That's one of the things I use my Tivo for...playing MP3 files off my desktop over 802.11b.

      > I will never, ever understand supposedly open
      > source advocates using and promoting TiVos,
      > possibly the most closed PVR system available.

      I wanted an appliance that just worked, that I didn't need to build from scratch or support.

      Oh, and here are some links for hacking a Series 2:

      http://tivoutils.sourceforge.net/
      http://www.de aldatabase.com/forum/forumdisplay.php ?f=51
      http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/forumdisp lay.php ?f=47

      In hindsight, you are a troll.

  2. Does this really apply? by Allen+Zadr · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Tivo is a service. The service is tied to a hardware platform, but it's still a service.

    It occurs to me that trying to use one of these alternatives will work great until the automated TV listing parser stops working due to a moved web page or some other problem.

    I would be willing to update a system every couple of months if necessary, but my Mother sure wouldn't...
    more importantly, Dave Letterman wouldn't.

    --
    Kinetic stupidity has a new brand leader: Allen Zadr.
    1. Re:Does this really apply? by garcia · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Tivo is a service. It occurs to me that trying to use one of these alternatives will work great until the automated TV listing parser stops working due to a moved web page or some other problem.

      I am more trusting of a freely available software package rather than a service. What happens if Tivo goes bankrupt or ups the price or whatever?

      If a website changes and code needs to be fixed the people running the software will do so and get the changes down to the endusers quickly.

      Even if it doesn't work anymore at least I wouldn't be losing money like I would if Tivo died.

    2. Re:Does this really apply? by Snad · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It occurs to me that trying to use one of these alternatives will work great until the automated TV listing parser stops working due to a moved web page or some other problem.

      Indeed. I was very interested in MythTV, but given that there are currently no active, reliable ways to obtain the program listings for New Zealand television (such as it is...) the whole thing became rather moot.

      One of the great advantages I saw was being able to present my gf with a list of TV program names on screen that she wanted to record (or had recorded and therefore could play back), rather than dick around with the video tapes and the (let's face it) pathetic UI that exists on most video recorders.

      Without that program listing things like MythTV lose some of their gloss.

      The obvious solution being that I should create my own mechanism for scraping NZ TV websites for program listings but I spend far too much time on /. to have time to create, and more importantly maintain, such a method. My gf, and my mother, and their work colleagues would be even less inclined to do so.

      Of course, being in such a small country we're SOL with regard to any kind of TiVo-like service anyway.

    3. Re:Does this really apply? by elykyllek · · Score: 5, Informative

      The latest version of MythTV uses Zap2It's datadirect service which does not scrape webpages. They have also said in their forums that it will remain free, your only obligation is to fill out a survey every three months to continue the subscription.

    4. Re:Does this really apply? by Gaewyn+L+Knight · · Score: 4, Informative

      Ahhh yes young grasshopper....

      But zap2it.com is catching on and just added XML data downloads to their labs. They call it datadirect or some such nonsense. No more parsing hundreds of webpages for the listings. You just get a nice XML download. Mythtv already supports it great.

      Check it out yourself at http://labs.zap2it.com.

      MythTV has a code to use for signup in their setup documents and with that and a short survey you are in business.

      --
      Telcos have alot of dark fibre in the States. Most people assume that's optical fibre...but it's actually moral fibre.
    5. Re:Does this really apply? by Allen+Zadr · · Score: 3, Informative
      That's where TCO analysis comes into play. How much is it worth to you to have someone send you the updated stuff, automatically, over the life of the hardware as compared to the do-it-yourself DVR?

      I doubt that I could build a computer to do what TiVo does for less than twice what a TiVo costs (just the hardware), add monthly fees - and I'm thinking that it would take two or three years to break even.

      This stuff is really cool - and I like the fact that a single system can stream video across my home, but I wouldn't realistically use this.

      Finally, with David Letterman (Late night talk-show host, for those whom don't know) plugging TiVo continuously on his show... I doubt that TiVo is going away anytime soon.

      --
      Kinetic stupidity has a new brand leader: Allen Zadr.
    6. Re:Does this really apply? by stanbrown · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I have a high level of concern over this issue, also. I would be happy to pay a reasonable cost (say 50% of the TIVO fee?) for a reliable long term non changing source of listings. I'm suspicous of this whole "Direct" Zap2It thing. They want to issue you a "certificate", and then require you to fill out a survey. And for all this you get about 3 months of service. I suspect that their bussiness model will not work any better (if they have one) than so many of the dotcom models. Someone pleas convince me I'm wrong.

      --
      nix is very simple, but it takes a genius to understand the simplicity. (Dennis Ritchie) ~
    7. Re:Does this really apply? by nathanh · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Indeed. I was very interested in MythTV, but given that there are currently no active, reliable ways to obtain the program listings for New Zealand television (such as it is...) the whole thing became rather moot.

      Yeah, good point. The live-tv stuff I must admit isn't very useful to me. What I use MythTV for is saying "I want all episodes of BLAH and you figure it out". Then I come back a few weeks later and watch them all back to back.

      Without a functional tv_grab script I simply wouldn't bother. Thankfully the tv_grab_au script does seem to work pretty well. I see tv_grab_nz in the xmltv install. Does it not work for you?

    8. Re:Does this really apply? by enrico_suave · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "To me, if TiVo's the best, and still cheaper (at least for the first couple of years of use), why use homebrew except for bragging rights?"

      well, as I've stated on many occasions... building your own PVR isn't for everybody. It helps if you like to tinker with PCs/software/etc... not everyone likes to DIY but I do =)

      that said, I love my Tivo.. but it isn't everything. I kinda wish I got a replayTV as Tivo's home media options (which you pay more to network your Tivo to your PC, sorta) is a joke.

      A tivo with lifetime subscription is 110 (after rebate 40 hours) + 300... 410

      I'd much rather pay that in hardware/toys to play with (you do know you are on slashdot, right? =)) and then some to have MORE functionality (like weather modules, RSS feeds, MAME, mp3's, divx, and so on....)...

      *shrug* again DIY PVr is not for everyone, but it's not a meritless endeavor. And yes, you may end up spending more, especially if you want it small/sexy looking, than you'd ever pay for a Tivo+subscription...

      I must say in the short time I've been running the site, the advancements in the software has been really amazing... SageTV (not free beer/speech... cue boo's and hisses) works awesome with my pvr350 and approaches tivo-esque look/feel/usability...

      YMMV,

      e.

      --
      Build Your Own PVR/HTPC news, reviews, &
    9. Re:Does this really apply? by ehintz · · Score: 4, Informative
      I am more trusting of a freely available software package rather than a service. What happens if Tivo goes bankrupt or ups the price or whatever?

      If a website changes and code needs to be fixed the people running the software will do so and get the changes down to the endusers quickly.

      Even if it doesn't work anymore at least I wouldn't be losing money like I would if Tivo died.
      If Tivo goes belly up, just roll your own data (or more likely join a community of people who do). The Tivo guide data format is hardly a secret these days. The service actually exists in the UK and US, but there are thriving widly active Tivo communities in AU and Canada. I've been running a service emulator for New Zealand since April, and before that we (NZ) were all manually loading guide data. So if Tivo Inc. goes belly up, those of you in the US will surely band together quickly and no doubt have a solid system running in no time flat... The Aussies have a really nice setup, with seemingly very reliable guide data and the like, and the numbers in the states eclipse AU by several orders of magnitude.
      --
      ehintz
    10. Re:Does this really apply? by pleb1024 · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'm a mythtv user in NZ. Have been using for the last 4 months as a PVR, no problems (after six months of getting everything working correctly)

      I have a working tv_grab_nz which scrapes off the TV1,TV2 + Sky Web sites. Works about 95% of the time at the moment.

      I planning a rewrite of it to make it a lot more reliable, and fix up some of the quirks that trip up mythtv a little.

      Once working to my liking, I plan on submiting up to the tv_grab people, so us NZ's are left behind in the stone age.

    11. Re:Does this really apply? by AKnightCowboy · · Score: 3, Informative
      I'm using freevo, but I believe that MythTV uses xmltv also.

      I wish more companies would follow Zap2It's lead here in the U.S. and provide listings as direct downloads. You can go into labs.zap2it.com and prepare your North American listings and when you go to connect you just download the channels you setup. It's 100 times better than screen scraping the old web site and all you have to do is fill out a 2 or 3 question survey every 3 months to maintain your free membership. All my problems with MythTV in the past were not really mythtv, but xmltv breaking. All zap2it had to do was change a single character in their website display and xmltv would break requiring a new release which usually meant a new release of MythTV was needed. It was fscking ridiculous. As a North American user I'm glad I won't have to worry about that anymore.

    12. Re:Does this really apply? by Ath · · Score: 4, Interesting
      To me, if TiVo's the best, and still cheaper (at least for the first couple of years of use), why use homebrew except for bragging rights?

      Here's one reason: I live in Europe but have a remote MythTV box setup in the USA. I remotely control it and download whatever I record. I cannot do that with a TiVo.

      A second reason is that some PVRs have additional functions built in. MythTV has add-ons for DVDs, music, weather, web browsing, videogame emulation, photos, etc.

      TiVo is great. I love it. But for some, it may not do everything they want. For that, there is MythTV! Of course, it's not for the technically phobic people...

    13. Re:Does this really apply? by Lumpy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      They have also said in their forums that it will remain free, your only obligation is to fill out a survey every three months to continue the subscription.

      I highly doubt it. and is one of the major reasons I gave up and abandoned my MythTV box for a replayTV box. It took me 3 days to find a working "subscription code" for the zap2it.com page and finally found one not with mythtv's forums but in the XMLTV user mailing list. the whole thing leaves a really bad taste in my mouth coupled with the fact that it becomes a maintaince fight getting everything working well. Besides XMLTV's US data scraper has also changed to that data source...

      My three requirements for a PVR, that drove me to mythtv was Ability to extract the mpeg's, upload my mpegs, and no subscription fees.

      I can see enough into the future to know that zap2it will certianly start charging fees by the end of this year. It's not worth the fight. I had spend at least 1 weekend a month updating xmltv every time the guide data breaks as well as other "updates" to the myth platform.

      I'm switching to a replayTV and the assorted software that make it really stinking easy to do what I want sans the free guide data..

      so yes, $13.00 a month is worth me not having to screw with it, and $100.00 for the replayTV new cant be even touched by any of the linux PVR's.

      I look at my $13.00 monthy bill as a "dont have to screw with it" payment.

      Dont get me wrong, MythTV is the best linux PVR out there... 3 times faster than freevo (I tried for months to get freevo to work smoothly and fast.) and really easy to get going if you follow the docs...

      but the guide data is going to be the death of them all, zap2it is not going to keep giving out free data forever.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  3. Schedules by andyrut · · Score: 3, Funny

    One of the things that makes TiVO so great is that it knows what television programs are on by downloading a schedule. With a free alternative, will some free service offer updated schedules so the devices know what's on, or will "homebrew" PVR users have to program it manually like a VCR?

    Also, given past incidents involving competing products with similar names, the makers of Freevo might be "linspired" to avoid a name so similar to TiVO.

  4. Just you wait... by lukewarmfusion · · Score: 4, Interesting

    From the front page of www.byopvr.com: "I'm very sorry that our modest hosting buckled under the strain."

    As a result of the CNN/Yahoo article(s), no less. Just wait until they see what Slashdot can do!

    BTW, this is the exact site for me. I've been talking about doing this for a while, and every time I see an article on Slashdot I get a little closer to actually building one. I'm really excited now.

  5. Don't forget pcHDTV by YetAnotherName · · Score: 4, Informative

    Recall that all of these efforts are standard definition television. Despite the nay-sayers, high definition television is indeed a reality, and has Linux support thanks to the HD-2000 card, which I'm happy to report has no support for Windows.

    What a breath of fresh air. Now, back to watching hard-disk recordings of Alias featuring the supremely-cute Jennifer Gartner, who, in high-def, has many supremely-cute freckles.

    1. Re:Don't forget pcHDTV by palutke · · Score: 4, Interesting

      . . . and has Linux support thanks to the HD-2000 [pchdtv.com] card, which I'm happy to report has no support for Windows.

      Why would you be happy to report that? It just hurts their chances of staying in business.

      --
      'I ain't a liar, baby, and I ain't proud I just want what I'm not allowed.' -- Violent Femmes, 36-24-36
    2. Re:Don't forget pcHDTV by MayonakaHa · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because the more companies that focus more on Linux and OSS systems than they do on Windows systems, the more people will be attracted.

      I know you'll probably say that the market for Linux devices is tiny.. and I'll agree with you on that, however, it's growing incrementally every day as more and more people are introduced to it in a friendly way. Working in electronics retail I've come upon many people who want to try Linux but are afraid of it because of horror stories, or someone closeby tries to scare them away by saying "oh it can't do that, I tried it and it was crap". I always get a smile from the look on their face when I say "it can do it now and it's been able to for a few years now. When was the last time you looked at Linux?"

    3. Re:Don't forget pcHDTV by swillden · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It just hurts their chances of staying in business.

      Maybe, maybe not. I think Linux market penetration is approaching the point where vendors can maintain a viable Linux-only business. The advantage to supporting *only* Linux and not Windows is that they have a chance to gain Linux market mindshare and recognition as *the* Linux solution. Basically, they're betting that it's better to be the default option of a small market, rather than just another also-ran in a much larger market.

      Is their strategy a good one? Only time will tell. I do think, however, that they've picked a very good technology to try it with. Using your PC as a PVR is a fairly geeky thing to do, given the existence of dedicated, relatively inexpensive devices like TiVo, and running Linux on your PC is also a fairly geeky thing to do. It seems likely that a much higher percentage of Linux users than Windows users would be interested in such technology. The absolute number of Windows PVR on PC users is larger, I'm sure, but the competition for those users is tougher. It's entirely possible that nearly 100% of the Linux market is actually more cards than 10% or whatever of the Windows market.

      Time will tell, of course.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  6. The saw us comming ... by mmarlett · · Score: 4, Funny
    ... and could do nothing.

    From one of the links that you probably can't get to by now:

    I'm happy to welcome the influx of new visitors who found the site via the "Step aside TiVo, here comes Freevo " Reuters story CNN Money | Yahoo News | etc.

    I'm very sorry that our modest hosting buckled under the strain. Ironically I was in the middle of moving the site to a new dedicated server to better cope with the growing interest in the site, when this hit the fan. We are now on that dedicated server, and it seems to be holding up fine (*knocks on wood*) I'm a little afraid this article will end up on slashdot then the site will really be toast.

    1. Re:The saw us comming ... by enrico_suave · · Score: 5, Informative

      lol... you got me there =)

      I meant to spend the day readying a nice new dedicated server for byopvr. I spent the day hot potato getting the site migrated off the VPS (after the first crushing courtesy of reuters/yahoo news)... then pvrblog graciously linked to the site and that influx of new visitors crushed the new server, before I could even get to optimize it... now this... now this... =)

      The site you see now is slightly pared down to help it limp through the crisis. I didn't really think anyone would post it to /. or if they did it would be to the original news story and somehow that would slow down the effect. *shrug* man was I wrong...

      e.

      --
      Build Your Own PVR/HTPC news, reviews, &
    2. Re:The saw us comming ... by enrico_suave · · Score: 3, Funny

      AC said...>>Hell, it's good to see the sources posting on directly on ./.
      >>>

      Well I'm afraid to go to my site while it's under siege, so I'll just hang out here, me thinks =)

      e.

      --
      Build Your Own PVR/HTPC news, reviews, &
  7. Advert skipping by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting


    do any of the the nix PVR's have advert skipping ?
    as in advert skipping where it doesnt record the adverts (as apposed to fast forwarding)

    i know its difficult but usually there are cues in the TV signal itself (bars etc) (like the film companies used to use markers to tell the projectionist when to change reels)

    be a nice challenge, or even for the future using bayes filters to train what is an advert and what isnt

    thoughts ?

    1. Re:Advert skipping by stanbrown · · Score: 4, Informative

      MythTV has post processing ad skiping that works fairly well. Doing it on the fly requires a lot of confideence in your mehcanisim, or you risk skiping parts of the program.

      --
      nix is very simple, but it takes a genius to understand the simplicity. (Dennis Ritchie) ~
  8. Actually have by DrWho520 · · Score: 5, Informative

    My roommate and I actually built one of these. Its a great project that provided much anit-Wintel fun. It also provided a great reason to add wirless to the condo.

    Gentoo Linux and an Athlon XP 2400 mate up very nicely. Only thing missing is that WinTV-PVR-350, deffinately the most expensive piece of hardware but well worth the $165+ price tag. We started with FreeVo, but decided on MythTV. It was much more mature a year ago.

    --
    The cancel button is your friend. Do not hesitate to use it.
  9. Article is not broad enough by tjasond · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This is just not broad enough for people to actually see the differences between the various htpc alternatives. Many of us htpc fans started over a year ago here or here or here . This review, frankly, is inadequate. There are far more issues than meets the eye when making your own htpc, whether myth or xp mce. I'm not advocating either one, I'd just like to remark, after building my own htpc from scratch, that this article tells little to nothing about the pain and suffering of completing this complex task on your own.

  10. Mythtv Setup Guide by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you want to learn how to set up mythtv, this is about as complete a guide as I have ever seen:

    www.wilsonet.com/mythtv

    Mad props to Jarod Wilson

    I originally had a fedora core box, but I recently switched it over to gentoo.

  11. PVR with digital cable by Openstandards.net · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I thought Myth TV looked awesome. However, I discovered that it can't support digital cable. But, it's not the project's fault, or even a Linux issue. I read that there are currently no PC video capture cards on the consumer market that can support digital TV.

    Is this true? Can we ever expect a card to come out? Are cable and other companies using proprietary protocals? Encryption? Does this fall under the DMCA?

    I just can't see using a PVR that doesn't support digital cable, as most of the channels I watch or would want to record are only available on digital. This includes most of the movie channels.

    --

    Open Standards Portal
    1. Re:PVR with digital cable by tjasond · · Score: 4, Informative

      No that's not true. Any tv capture card can support digital cable, as long as its outputs are compatible with the tuner's inputs. The only issue I've seen in relation to a cable box is that you need to have a way to control the IR signal (usually via an IR Imitter) with one remote control. Every digital cable box that I've ever come across has had at least a coax out, if not RCA outs, which should be able to plug directly into most tuner cards. Beyond that, there should be no compatibility issues.

    2. Re:PVR with digital cable by Riskable · · Score: 4, Informative

      There's currently two ways to use MythTV with digital cable... The first (and most obvious) way is to use an IRBlaster. It's a device that hooks up to your MythTV box that changes the channel on your cable box when you change the channel on MythTV. It slows things down a bit, so it isn't ideal.

      The other way is to get a cable box with a serial port (that works with MythTV). The only one I know off the top of my head is the Motorola DC2000 series. If you ask your cable company for a firewire-equipped box, they're most likely going to give you a DC2000. Also, if you get an HDTV cable box, you're most likely going to get a DC2000.

      If you have the serial port setup, digital cable changes channels fast and works like a charm. A superior solution to the IRBlaster.

      Side note: In this setup you don't even need a TV tuner card. Just some sort of video input to your PC. However, if you do want to get a TV tuner card, make sure you buy a WinTV PVR-250 or a PVR-350. They have built-in MPEG2 encoders which look absolutely beautiful and take quite a load off your CPU.

      --
      -Riskable
      "Those who choose proprietary software will pay for their decision!"
  12. MythTV setup not for the faint of heart by ptelligence · · Score: 3, Informative

    But it's well worth it. I've got one running at home, and it is an amazing device with all free software. You'll want to drop $120 to $150 on a Hauppauge WinTV PVR card with remote and your HD will eventually top 100 gigs if it hasn't already. You're looking at about a gig per half hour that you record. What's cool about my box is that in addition to acting as a PVR, it's also an ssh and samba server and its constantly grabbing 3 or 4 bittorrents. Also it can pause and rewind live tv. I must admit though that I have spent on the order of 30 hours setting it up and just fooling around with it in general. You'll want to be familiar with Linux before you even attempt to set up one of these. If you're looking for an easier way, you may want to try KnoppMyth. It's bootable live CD that installs myth TV. It may require a little tweaking at the end, but it could save you a heck of a lot of time. Of course then you'll realize that there's nothing good on TV anyway but your geeky pride will be stroked.

  13. Linux PVRs can be a pain! by truffle · · Score: 5, Informative

    Some points which pundits may not mention (I'm a MythTV user):
    - Dedicated PVR systems are always cheaper than building your own from parts
    - PVR systems based on old hardware will be slow. It doesn't matter if you throw a hardware encoder/decoder in your Duron 850, it will be slow. You want all the CPU and disk speed you can get. Trust me.
    - Be prepared to spend 40+ hours over the next three months setting up, configuring, debugging your system. Less if you don't care about customizing and tweaking. More if you're less experienced, and want to compile from source, or don't have popular hardware.
    - If you use your Linux box for other things, be aware the system resources mythtv demands may make it slow and chunky.
    - Setting up a MythTV box requires installing lots of stuff. The mythtv software works with LIRC (remote control drivers), iVTV (tuner drivers), and a bunch of stuff I don't remember. This isn't an install one thing and you're done project.

    I enjoy tweaking systems, but I wasn't aware of the amount of time I'd have to put into MythTV. This in no way detracts from the project - it's a great project. Just know you're getting into something that's fairly technical, and requires troubleshooting.

    For the record, PVR 350 + Athlon 1800 + 512 megs/ram on my mythtv box. Debian.

    --

    ---
    I support spreading santorum
    1. Re:Linux PVRs can be a pain! by Spoke · · Score: 3, Interesting
      PVR systems based on old hardware will be slow. It doesn't matter if you throw a hardware encoder/decoder in your Duron 850, it will be slow. You want all the CPU and disk speed you can get. Trust me.
      You must be doing something wrong if you can't get a Duron 850 running well, especially when using a hardware encoder. I'm even tempted to replace it with a Via Eden system so that it uses less power and runs quieter (no more CPU fan!)

      I've got MythTV running great on a Duron 800, 512MB of memory and a 80GB 7200RPM drive with 2MB of cache and 2 PVR250s. Not exactly state of the hard hardware, but it works very well.

      Now, if you were using software encoders, you would then need a lot of CPU power if you wanted to record multiple shows at the same time, especially if you want to record directly to MPEG4 format.

      IMO the following is most important when building a MythTV system (not sure how much applies to other Open Source PVRs):

      A decent amount of memory. 256MB is bare minimum for a combination frontend/backend system. 512MB is good.

      Lots of hard-drive space. I thought that 80GB would be plenty, but every now and then I get a number of shows queued up and fill up the drive. 160GB would be better. The drive doesn't need to be fast, even the slowest drives are fast enough to stream multiple live video streams off of them. 5400 RPM drives suffice if they are big enough. More important is to put the right filesystem where you are storing your recordings. EXT3 is a lot slower than JFS or XFS when it comes to deleting large files, it takes 3-5 seconds on my system to delete multi-gigabyte files. JFS or XFS can delete large files almost instantly.
  14. Windows Media Center Edition? by altek · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Yes, this article is about Linux PVR's, but how do people feel that the popular ones mentioned (Freevo, MythTV) compare to Windows Media Center Edition's PVR functions?

    Don't treat this as a troll (I still expect usual M$ backlash from /.), but I'm really curious. A few things I know already about Media Center:

    1) records in proprietary format (dvr-ms?)
    2) no skipping of commercials (except of course fast-forward)
    3) doesn't require a TV-tuner, can use any vid card with video capture (S-Video, RCA, coax, etc)
    4) generally comes with a remote for all PVR functions and a IR transmitter to actually change your cable box channel
    5) supports other media-ish functions like music, pictures, etc
    6) It's Windows for chrissake

    Please add/subtract/multiply/divide from this list. Just trying to get an idea of how MS's (cruddy) product stacks up to the free competition.

    --
    THE MAGIC WORDS ARE SQUEAMISH OSSIFRAGE
  15. Re:**sigh** Wake up! by john_anderson_ii · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I certaintly can't answer for the rest of the Linux PVR community, but I for one think my Linux PVR works great! I don't watch nearly enough TV to purchase a TiVo, and since my PVR was frankensteined from dead machines I had laying about, it cost me nothing but time. Of course I enjoy configuring and tweaking systems in spare time. :) The sum and substance is: If you like playing around with this kind of stuff, go for it, and enjoy the fringe benifits of having some level of use. If you don't like spending the time, then buy a TiVo and support an emerging company. It's all about choice, and having a choice is just awesome in my opinion.

    --
    Be Safe! Sleep with a Marine. Semper Fi!
  16. Re:HDTV will kill Homebrew PVRs... by Zapdos · · Score: 4, Informative

    How about today.
    http://www.pchdtv.com/

    --
    Get a free ipod.
  17. Re:PVR Distro by omega9 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Look a little harder.

    --
    I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it.
  18. Re:Windows Media Center Edition? by Riskable · · Score: 5, Informative

    All I can answer is in regards to MythTV:

    1) If you use a Tuner card with an MPEG encoder, it records in MPEG2. If you use a Tuner without an MPEG2 encoder, MythTV uses your CPU to record in either RTJPEG or MPEG4 (user configurable). MythTV can transcode these formats to pretty much whatever you want after the recording is done.

    2) MythTV can automatically flag commercials during recording. When it later transcodes the recording, it auto-skips these flagged areas. Works quite well, but can occasionally mess up (mostly it doesn't miss parts of your show, but might record an extraneous commercial or two). It has some newer experimental commercial skip features which I haven't tried yet. It's all user-configurable.

    3) MythTV doesn't require a tuner. You could hook your cable box up to a video input of some sort on your PC and use it with an IRBlaster or serial cable (assuming your cable box can be controlled by a serial port).

    4) If you buy a WinTV PVR card, it comes with a remote and IR interface... These work flawlessly with MythTV. However, I should note that MythTV works with LIRC... So if you get any old IR reciever working with LIRC, it'll work with MythTV. Essentially this means you can use MythTV with just about any remote you can get your hands on.

    5) MythTV supports TV, Videos (auto-metadata lookups which is sweet, checkout the screenshots page), games (MAME, SNES, NES, Linux games, very cool), weather (My favorite module), RSS Newsfeeds, DVDs (which includes a nice ripper), and some others I can't think of off the top of my head right now. There's also a MythPhone module in development that works like Netmeeting/Gnomemeeting (http://www.zen13655.zen.co.uk/mythphone.html).

    6) It's Linux, however, there's hooks and things in the code so that it might run on Windows some day. We'll see.

    MythTV RIGHT NOW is an amazing piece of software, but because it's open-source, it's rapidly developing into something much, much more. Right now it's the PVR leader and I suspect it's going to remain that way for quite some time... A very promising future.

    --
    -Riskable
    "Those who choose proprietary software will pay for their decision!"
  19. Tivo shares drop 14%... by acm · · Score: 3, Informative
    SAN JOSE, Calif., Jun 08, 2004 (AP Online via COMTEX) -- Shares of TiVo Inc. dropped more than 14 percent Tuesday after DirecTV sold its entire stake in the digital video recorder pioneer, heightening concerns that the satellite TV company would end their relationship.

    The bulk of TiVo's new subscribers last quarter came through its partnership with DirecTV, which offers TiVo service built into some of its television set-top boxes so that users can pause live TV, easily set up recordings and skip past commercials...

    AP Online

  20. Re:PVR Distro by Baseclass · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I've been using Knoppmyth for several months and am extremely happy with the results.

    Although I've dabbled in Linux off and on for several years, I'm hardly proficient. MythTV has renewed my love of Linux in a big way. The Knoppmyth distro proved to be a perfect catalyst. The install is simple and straight forward (do your research on supported hardware first!) Check out the forums at My Settop Box. It's based off Debian (all hail apt-get!). The developers did an outstanding job of setting up the bare essentials and they keep pace with stable MythTV builds. This has everything the commercial PVRs have and much much more. My dad has been a devout ReplayTV user for sometime and was blown away by the freedom MythTV provides. Since it's Linux you are free to do anything your heart desires. My 7 year old has become very proficient at pulling up his favorite Futurama episodes (yes I've taught him well), music, pictures...you name it. He's actually a better navigator than the mrs. :)

    Please note however, it's still under heavy development and shouldn't be attempted if you aren't a geek who enjoys hacking config files or aspiring to learn Linux.

    The only major problem I've experienced is that everyone who sees mine wants me to build them one.

    --
    ^^vv<><>BA
  21. Re:Screwing TiVo Screws Linux by Baseclass · · Score: 3, Insightful
    For one thing Tivo is extremely successful despite the slew of new Linux PVRs on the market. Tivo is but one success story, what's wrong with a little healthy competition.

    The big thing for me is that Tivo is locked down. I wan't my PVR to be 100% customizable and upgradeable at my discretion. I also have a HUGE problem with big brother monitoring what I watch and what I pause (i.e. The Janet Jackson Super bowl halftime show). Tivo may run on Linux, but it's just another greedy corporation. Fuck Tivo and fuck you.

    --
    ^^vv<><>BA
  22. The TiVo double standard by Call+Me+Black+Cloud · · Score: 4, Interesting


    I've always found it odd at how the hacker community treats TiVo. There is little information or recent work on how to extract the video out of a TiVo box (except for extractstream), and don't even think about bringing it up on TiVo fan forums. In fact, those forums won't allow talk about removing the ads TiVo downloads into itself. I'm surprised at this. I'd think the "it's my hardware, how dare they download ads into it" mentality would win out.

    Apple releases a new DRM scheme for iTunes and people are all over it trying to break it. And Apple is pretty liberal with what you can do with purchased music.

    I just don't get what's so special about TiVo that there isn't more work being done to open the system.

    1. Re:The TiVo double standard by spectecjr · · Score: 3, Informative

      I've always found it odd at how the hacker community treats TiVo. There is little information or recent work on how to extract the video out of a TiVo box (except for extractstream), and don't even think about bringing it up on TiVo fan forums. In fact, those forums won't allow talk about removing the ads TiVo downloads into itself. I'm surprised at this. I'd think the "it's my hardware, how dare they download ads into it" mentality would win out.

      The ads that TiVo downloads help support TiVo and keep them up and running.

      They're one of a very small number of companies who are extremely customer focused, and who try to do right by the people who buy their stuff all the time. This needs to be respected and rewarded.

      That, and they unofficially support hacking of their system to add capacity and features.

      The reason the boards don't allow certain topics is so as not to sour that relationship.

      --
      Coming soon - pyrogyra
    2. Re:The TiVo double standard by LazyBoy · · Score: 3, Informative
      There is little information or recent work on how to extract the video out of a TiVo box (except for extractstream), and don't even think about bringing it up on TiVo fan forums.
      Some forums are anti-extraction, others aren't. Check out the forums at www.dealdatabase.com
      --

      If Chaos Theory has taught us anything, it's that we must kill all the butterflies.

  23. Tuner costs the same as a TiVo unit...... by burbs · · Score: 4, Insightful

    One thing the author didn't do was list the price of a base-model TiVo machine. For those with a limited income, forking out $199 for a graphics card may not seem as beneficial as paying $199 for an entire unit. They may even be able to scrimp with the monthly fees.

    I have a ReplayTV myself, the base $149 model. I liked the built-in network card and available 3rd party programs that allow me to stream media from my PC to the ReplayTV box, or vice-versa.

    I think it's good that this article showed up to list the alternatives. I really don't understand why TiVo is so popular, especially when you compare the features of it to ReplayTV. But I guess that they've got on hell of a marketing team.