More on the Swedish Stealth Ship

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More on the Swedish Stealth Ship

Posted by michael on Thursday June 10, 2004 @01:25AM from the fnord-in-the-fjord dept.

Dr.Knackerator writes "The BBC is running a story on Sweden's new carbon fibre stealth ship, the Visby. As well as being the first stealth ship, it is controlled by 'state-of-the-art computers using a Windows NT operating system'. 'But Kockums and the Swedish Navy deny it could be sabotaged by hackers and say that even if it did they could fall back to traditional steering and navigation'." We had a previous story about this as well.

41 of 532 comments (clear)

And now... In Swedish. by lewko · 2004-06-10 01:27 · Score: 5, Funny

Zee BBC is roonneeng a stury oon Sveden's noo cerbun feebre-a steelt sheep, zee Feesby. Bork bork bork! Es vell es beeeng zee furst steelt sheep, it is cuntrulled by 'stete-a-ooff-zee-ert cumpooters useeng a Veendoos NT oopereteeng system'. 'Boot Kuckooms und zee Svedeesh Nefy deny it cuoold be-a sebuteged by heckers und sey thet ifee iff it deed zeey cuoold fell beck tu tredeeshunel steereeng und nefeegeshun'." Ve-a hed a prefeeuoos stury ebuoot thees es vell.

--
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1. Re:And now... In Swedish. by kunudo · 2004-06-10 02:01 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  It's not about replicating Swedish, you bafoon. It's the Swedish Chef from dialectizer... You know, as in the FUCKING MUPPET, which did say 'und'?
  
  Yes, I know. He was wrong too.
You mean "when we are hacked we can fall back..."? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-06-10 01:27 · Score: 3, Funny

And the Swede's are using traditional stearing in 5...4...3...
Why stealth? by aixou · 2004-06-10 01:27 · Score: 5, Funny

Is everyone all of a sudden gunning at the Swedish ships?

Maybe the powers that be saw Tomorrow Never Dies one too many times.
1. Re:Why stealth? by mgs1000 · 2004-06-10 01:53 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  They don't want the Finns or the Norwegians to get any ideas. :)
Why???? by BWJones · 2004-06-10 01:28 · Score: 5, Insightful

it is controlled by 'state-of-the-art computers using a Windows NT operating system'. '

First off, I am not sure I would call an NT system "state of the art". Next, I have to wonder just why folks are using a commodity platform to perform literally "mission critical" operations in a combat environment. Particularly one whose history of security is dubious at best.

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1. Re:Why???? by shnarez · 2004-06-10 01:34 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  controlled by 'state-of-the-art computers using a Windows NT operating system'
  First off, I am not sure I would call an NT system "state of the art".
  
  I read it as saying the COMPUTERS are top-notch state-of-the-art, but they are running some crappy OS...
2. Re:Why???? by dasmegabyte · 2004-06-10 01:58 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Well, the security of poorly administrated Windows systems is dubious. But none of the 25 Windows 2000 machines in this office has ever gotten a virus in the past three years...basically, since I took over as administrator.
  
  Why? First thing I did was install a firewall. Second thing I did was disable unneccessary services. Third thing I did was patch them regularly.
  
  And that's it. I am the only admin for the company and I spend maybe two hours a month working on Windows (most of which is spent convincing the Exchange server to run a little bit longer). Why is Windows security so bad? Because most Windows administrators are lazy and would prefer to let things go for a few weeks than test the effects of the patch themselves.
  
  And as for Windows systems NOT being state-of-the-art...would you like a list of hardware that had Windows support YEARS before Linux got it? You probably don't, it's quite long and includes such obscure technologies as "USB." Not dissing on Linux overall (and I realize support for new tech has gotten MUCH better), but if you're a company that needs support for cutting edge technology and you don't want to write your own drivers, sometimes Windows is the only option. All that bloat? Yeah, some of it is Minesweeper and that retarded dog, but some of it is also features.
  
  --
  Hey freaks: now you're ju
Coolest part... by mobiux · 2004-06-10 01:28 · Score: 3, Funny

The m.c. ecsher paint job.
1. Re:Coolest part... by BWJones · 2004-06-10 01:31 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Actually, cryptic paint schemes go back as far as the early 1900's in war ships designed to conceal edges and make it difficult to determine which direction a ship may be traveling in. They have been used on and off for years, but most commonly on smaller littoral combat platforms rather than larger ships.
  
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  Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
2. Re:Coolest part... by mmaddox · 2004-06-10 01:32 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  And I would argue that the submarine is the first "stealth ship."
  
  --
  What'dya mean there's no BLINK tag!?
Not so worried about it being hacked... by Trogdorsey · 2004-06-10 01:29 · Score: 4, Insightful

I'd be more worried about it crashing
The US has had a stealth ship since the mid-80's by Flounder · 2004-06-10 01:29 · Score: 5, Informative

but if I told you about it, I'd have to kill you.
Sea Shadow

--
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. - Cmdr. Susan Ivanova
James Bond by Claire-plus-plus · 2004-06-10 01:31 · Score: 5, Funny

Well at least James Bond will find that one easier to destroy than the last stealth ship he dealt with, all he would have to do is give it's IP to some script kiddies.

--
99 bottles of beer in 175 characte
Hmmm. by Faust7 · 2004-06-10 01:31 · Score: 4, Interesting

First off, I am not sure I would call an NT system "state of the art".

Well, the article says the computers are state-of-the-sart, not the operating system.
However, I doubt they're running NT 4.0 in any case. Windows 2000 or Server 2003, most likely, and those are simply not operating systems to be laughed at.

--
The coolest voice ever.
1. Re:Hmmm. by Flounder · 2004-06-10 01:32 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  Windows 2000 or Server 2003, most likely, and those are simply not operating systems to be laughed at. No laughing at Windows 2k or 2k3?? You do realize this is /. we're talking about, remember?
  
  --
  No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. - Cmdr. Susan Ivanova
2. Re:Hmmm. by Geekenstein · 2004-06-10 01:58 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  No, NT is the most likely OS. Military hardware takes years of design and testing to be put into service. If you look at the computer specs for the newest USAF fighter prototypes, you'll see they have about the computing power of a 486. Once things are certified and stress tested, you don't go changing the design on something that works.
3. Re:Hmmm. by borgboy · 2004-06-10 02:24 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Actually, having been in the defense industry, I can say with the timeline this warship was developed that it's entirely probable that it does run Windows NT 4.0. You dont change specs like that on a project of this scope lightly. NT also has been rated C2, in certain specific configurations.
  Good? Bad? Evil? Not my argument.
  
  --
  meh.
4. Re:Hmmm. by ckaminski · 2004-06-10 03:03 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  You have to remember that the M16 was a weapon made by a private concern looking to sell it to the military. It was a weapon looking for a problem. Vietnam provided that problem. Then the M16 provided a whole boatload of problems all by it's own, when the Army made it out to be less maintenance than a rock. A lot of early M16 adopters are dead because the damn thing wouldn't serve it's primary purpose, discharge bullets at the enemy.
  
  The M16 was not a government project. Political concerns delayed getting the weapon fielded for at least 5 years, IIRC. Which I think was your point.
  
  HAND.
  -Chris
Sea Shadow by Genady · 2004-06-10 01:31 · Score: 3, Informative

As well as being the first stealth ship,

No, I'm afraid that that honor goes to Sea Shadow. True, it was only a technology demonstrator, but it WAS the first stealth ship. This Swedish upstart may be the first PRODUCTION stealth ship, but it certainly ain't the first.

That said, lessons from Sea Shadow were incorporated into the Burke class Destroyers. So this isn't even the first 'stealthy' ship out here.

--

What if it is just turtles all the way down?
Been there done that! by 10Ghz · 2004-06-10 01:32 · Score: 5, Informative

Finnish Hamina-class. Maybe not as radical as this ship, but stealth-ship regardless. And packed with high technology.

So what makes this Swedish ship "first stealth-ship", when there are already stealth-ships in use in Finland? And they have been in use for quite some time already.

--
Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
Probably OK by W2k · 2004-06-10 01:33 · Score: 5, Insightful

If this boat is running anything like the NT systems I used when I was in the army (the Swedish army that is) I'd say it's pretty stable and secure. Windows NT has had quite some time to mature as an operating system and has had most of its bugs fixed by now. Obviously, they won't be connecting these things to the Internet, so no need to worry about hax0rz.

I, for one, welcome our new Swedish Navy Stealth Ship overlords.

--
Quality, performance, value; you get only two, and you don't always get to pick.
It may be invisible to radar... by mwvdlee · 2004-06-10 01:36 · Score: 5, Funny

...but it'll be easily spotted by all the outgoing packets coming from the spyware, troyans and virusses "installed" on WinNT!

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Not the first by still+cynical · 2004-06-10 01:39 · Score: 3, Informative

The headline is not quite right. First off, the first stealth ship was the U.S. Navy's Sea Shadow, but it is only a technology testbed and demonstrator. This is the first stealth ship to see operational service.

--
Ignorance is the root of all evil.
Re:The US has had a stealth ship since the mid-80' by D_Gr8_BoB · 2004-06-10 01:41 · Score: 3, Funny

There's clearly a lot of "secrecy" surrounding stealth ship technology. Best quote from the article:
"We use a secret angle on our Type 23 frigates which enables our ships to reduce their radar signature to an absolute minimum." (emphasis added)
WTF? There are only so many angles in the first place, and can't you just look at the ship to figure it out?
The US Does by millahtime · 2004-06-10 01:41 · Score: 3, Interesting

The US has a stealth ship. I read about it in Wired and saw something on TV awhile back on it. The ship is black, floats on 2 pontoons, travels pretty quick, leaves no wake, is black and uses the same stealth technology as the stealth fighter and bomber.

It is housed in the San Fran area and is inside a large barge that can open up to let it out for testing but no one can see it coming and going.

--
Evolution or ID?
Re:I hear that... by phayes · 2004-06-10 01:43 · Score: 3, Insightful

However, the resin used to bind the fibers is much easier to damage & burns easily giving off noxious fumes. Damage control in case of even a minor hit is going to be lots of fun...

--
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
Stealth cars by DataCannibal · 2004-06-10 01:43 · Score: 5, Funny

I was at a job interview recently and those of us who were there being interviewed were chatting about fun jobs we'd like to have.

One of the guys there told us that a friend of his, who had previously worked for an arms company, was being recentltly interviewed for a job at a Formula 1 racing team. When asked what he could tell them about his previous job and how he could use that experience in the job he was interviewing for he repliad that, because of the classified nature of his work he couldn't tell them much about what he had been doing. He could, however, help them to make their racing cars invisible to radar.

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No but, yeah but, no but...
Clippy by merky1 · 2004-06-10 01:47 · Score: 5, Funny

I see that you are attacking a lesser third world country. Would you like to

0 - Launch Missiles
0 - Fire Cannons
0 - Hide

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--WooooHoooo--
Windows NT at the helm by LabRat007 · 2004-06-10 01:47 · Score: 4, Funny

So the crew would look something like...

1 Captin

1 First Mate

50 Enlisted To Man Stations

103 System Admins to keep NT's "blue screen of death" from sinking the ship

--
"Capital punishment makes the state into a murderer. Imprisonment makes the state into a gay dungeon-master"
Re:Doesn't the US have a stealth Ship? by Quila467 · 2004-06-10 01:47 · Score: 5, Informative

You're probably thinking of the Lockheed Martin "Sea Shadow" which was a stealth ship built by the same group that built the F-117 stealth fighter and the SR-71. It was built by Skunk Works in the mid 80's as a test ship to test stealth technology on ships. If you google for skunkworks sea shadow, you should be able to find a picture of it.
Re:I hear that... by drinkypoo · 2004-06-10 01:55 · Score: 3, Funny

These days if any kind of vehicle gets hit with any kind of major ordnance it's a crater anyway - or in this case, a rapidly filled hole in the water.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:Windows NT you say? by superdan2k · 2004-06-10 01:58 · Score: 4, Funny

Wouldn't that be spelled, "4h0y m4t3y, th4r 5h3 bL0WZ0RZ!"?

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blog |
Re:Ah... by BetterThanCaesar · 2004-06-10 01:59 · Score: 3, Informative

Visby is the capital of Gotland, which is an island off the east coast of Sweden where the (historic) Goths lived. In case you wondered.

--
"Stop failing the Turing test!" -- Dilbert
NT is a good choice... by Rick.C · 2004-06-10 02:01 · Score: 4, Funny

... if all you want to do is steer. Oh, and control engine speed. No problem. And maybe integrate the radar. Still no problem. And run LSASS to make sure that there are no NT license violations. And RPC to check if anyone wants to use the C$ share. And SVCHOST and SPOOLSV and WINLOGON. And CSRSS and SMSS and maybe WOW. And IE4 for the user interface. And MSTASK to monitor it all...
Captain to Engine Room (through the low-tech voice tube): Switch to manual control IMMEDIATELY!

--
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"Math in a song is good."-Linford
Re:The US has had a stealth ship since the mid-80' by Dr.+Smeegee · 2004-06-10 02:05 · Score: 5, Funny

I vish to use a protractor on your steelth wessels!
Dept correction by nmnilsson · 2004-06-10 02:08 · Score: 3, Funny

Most scandinavian fjords are actually found in Norway.
Never heard of a swedish parrot pining for the fjords, have you? ;-)

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First stealth ship? by Squapper · 2004-06-10 02:15 · Score: 3, Informative

The sea shadow was publically revealed in 1993...the prototype for Visby, the "Smyge", was uncovered in 1991...
Steathy and Obvious all at once by Jonathan_S · 2004-06-10 02:35 · Score: 3, Informative

From the article:

In a nutshell, if the Visby was 100km from an enemy vessel it could see the enemy on its radar but not vice versa.
Hopefully this is the writers silly notion rather than something he was told. A stealth ship 100km away from any navy ship, but running its radar, is just broadcasting its position. (Naval vessels do have radar receivers you know).

Kind of like making a perfectly light absorbing black truck for night usage, then looking around with a giant searchlight!
Re:The US has had a stealth ship since the mid-80' by Creepy · 2004-06-10 02:43 · Score: 3, Informative

Actually, you have two planes of angles to work with from the top, and two from the side.

The stealth aircraft have little odd angled "mirror rooms" (for lack of a better words - think a house of horrors hall of mirrors) that temporarily absorb signals, bounce them around a bit and let them out at various angles at various times, which is why they have a signature, but it is a lot like a flock of birds, not an airplane. A ship would probably reflect radar coming from the side into nearby waves and use them for the scattering effect and try to redirect deck waves in a direction other than straight back (thus the non-90 degree angle).
It's a brilliant bluff by Nevrar · 2004-06-10 03:00 · Score: 4, Funny

Excellent idea...

Bluff the world... Say you have an invisible navy - no one will be able to disprove it! Everyone will think Sweden is the next superpower...

The fastrack to world peace.

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Nevrar