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More on the Swedish Stealth Ship
Dr.Knackerator writes "The BBC is running a story on Sweden's new carbon fibre stealth ship, the Visby. As well as being the first stealth ship, it is controlled by 'state-of-the-art computers using a Windows NT operating system'. 'But Kockums and the Swedish Navy deny it could be sabotaged by hackers and say that even if it did they could fall back to traditional steering and navigation'." We had a previous story about this as well.
feeling slightly moist at the phrase "Swedish Stealth Ship" ? -
If I promise to be a good boy can I have some better karma?
Zee BBC is roonneeng a stury oon Sveden's noo cerbun feebre-a steelt sheep, zee Feesby. Bork bork bork! Es vell es beeeng zee furst steelt sheep, it is cuntrulled by 'stete-a-ooff-zee-ert cumpooters useeng a Veendoos NT oopereteeng system'. 'Boot Kuckooms und zee Svedeesh Nefy deny it cuoold be-a sebuteged by heckers und sey thet ifee iff it deed zeey cuoold fell beck tu tredeeshunel steereeng und nefeegeshun'." Ve-a hed a prefeeuoos stury ebuoot thees es vell.
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'state-of-the-art computers using a Windows NT operating system' OMFGLOLROFLMFAO
sorry... couldn't help it.
You are about to give someone a piece of your mind, something which you can ill afford...
And the Swede's are using traditional stearing in 5...4...3...
First I read the ship's name as "Visibility"... guess that would be illogical...
I don't need a signature.
Is everyone all of a sudden gunning at the Swedish ships?
Maybe the powers that be saw Tomorrow Never Dies one too many times.
it is controlled by 'state-of-the-art computers using a Windows NT operating system'. '
First off, I am not sure I would call an NT system "state of the art". Next, I have to wonder just why folks are using a commodity platform to perform literally "mission critical" operations in a combat environment. Particularly one whose history of security is dubious at best.
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Ahoy matey, thar' she blows!! Sez the one hax0r to another..
The m.c. ecsher paint job.
I remember seeing a US stealth ship in Wired I think, it's black and it floats on two pontoons, so that it's sonar signature is reduced... ANyone else know what I'm talking about?
I'd be more worried about it crashing
Sea Shadow
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. - Cmdr. Susan Ivanova
Oh, by the way, the secret angle is 30.56 degrees. :-)
This is not the first stealth ship., this is./ ships /ship-sea.html
http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/factfile
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I think perhaps if you bomb it a bit, it comes apart.
If I promise to be a good boy can I have some better karma?
Well at least James Bond will find that one easier to destroy than the last stealth ship he dealt with, all he would have to do is give it's IP to some script kiddies.
99 bottles of beer in 175 characte
First off, I am not sure I would call an NT system "state of the art".
Well, the article says the computers are state-of-the-sart, not the operating system.
However, I doubt they're running NT 4.0 in any case. Windows 2000 or Server 2003, most likely, and those are simply not operating systems to be laughed at.
The coolest voice ever.
As well as being the first stealth ship,
No, I'm afraid that that honor goes to Sea Shadow. True, it was only a technology demonstrator, but it WAS the first stealth ship. This Swedish upstart may be the first PRODUCTION stealth ship, but it certainly ain't the first.
That said, lessons from Sea Shadow were incorporated into the Burke class Destroyers. So this isn't even the first 'stealthy' ship out here.
What if it is just turtles all the way down?
Finnish Hamina-class. Maybe not as radical as this ship, but stealth-ship regardless. And packed with high technology.
So what makes this Swedish ship "first stealth-ship", when there are already stealth-ships in use in Finland? And they have been in use for quite some time already.
Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
If this boat is running anything like the NT systems I used when I was in the army (the Swedish army that is) I'd say it's pretty stable and secure. Windows NT has had quite some time to mature as an operating system and has had most of its bugs fixed by now. Obviously, they won't be connecting these things to the Internet, so no need to worry about hax0rz.
I, for one, welcome our new Swedish Navy Stealth Ship overlords.
Quality, performance, value; you get only two, and you don't always get to pick.
> As well as being the first stealth ship,
The Lockheed Skunk Works built a stealth ship for the US Navy back in the early 1980s. For various political and technical reasons the design was never accepted for production, but most "navy of the future" articles you see in both the popular and trade press use that design as the basis for their concept art.
sPh
Sweden has a warship? Like a ship with guns? When did this happen? Holy shit!
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
As your link states, the Sea Shadow is a test craft. The Visby corvette is going to be in active service in the swedish navy.
In Soviet Russia, the profit overlords welcome you!
Why does every new thing have to have a X in the name? Being in parenthesis, its almost like an after thought.
Maybe it signifies that this ship will also be run by Microsoft software... A Beowulf cluster of X-Boxen!!!
...but it'll be easily spotted by all the outgoing packets coming from the spyware, troyans and virusses "installed" on WinNT!
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...What do you mean, they disabled the fallback system??!?!?!!!
The headline is not quite right. First off, the first stealth ship was the U.S. Navy's Sea Shadow, but it is only a technology testbed and demonstrator. This is the first stealth ship to see operational service.
Ignorance is the root of all evil.
Honestly, who are they hiding their ship from? Any percieved enemies are probably without the ability to fight a ship to ship battle for an extended amount of time. But, this may be of interest to smugglers. LoL
The phrase "Where would you like to go today ?" could not be more fitting in this case.. question is, where do you actually end up ?
"We use a secret angle on our Type 23 frigates which enables our ships to reduce their radar signature to an absolute minimum." (emphasis added)
WTF? There are only so many angles in the first place, and can't you just look at the ship to figure it out?
The US has a stealth ship. I read about it in Wired and saw something on TV awhile back on it. The ship is black, floats on 2 pontoons, travels pretty quick, leaves no wake, is black and uses the same stealth technology as the stealth fighter and bomber.
It is housed in the San Fran area and is inside a large barge that can open up to let it out for testing but no one can see it coming and going.
Evolution or ID?
If I'm not mistaken, the U.S. Navy once built a hydroplane vessel using the same sort of technology that is used on the F117 stealth fighter. The ship even had the characteristic radar-mangling facets.
I could be wrong.
However, the resin used to bind the fibers is much easier to damage & burns easily giving off noxious fumes. Damage control in case of even a minor hit is going to be lots of fun...
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
I was at a job interview recently and those of us who were there being interviewed were chatting about fun jobs we'd like to have.
One of the guys there told us that a friend of his, who had previously worked for an arms company, was being recentltly interviewed for a job at a Formula 1 racing team. When asked what he could tell them about his previous job and how he could use that experience in the job he was interviewing for he repliad that, because of the classified nature of his work he couldn't tell them much about what he had been doing. He could, however, help them to make their racing cars invisible to radar.
No but, yeah but, no but...
The new ship is also controlled by state-of-the-art computers using a Windows NT operating system. But Kockums and the Swedish Navy deny it could be sabotaged by hackers and say that even if it did they could fall back to traditional steering and navigation. Mr Nilsson said: "I am not an expert in computer security but we have focused a lot on that and this ship has a lot of firewalls and clever ways of avoiding it (being hacked)." Windows NT? - MS is not eaven supporting this OS, firewalls? Does that mean that the ship has incoming/outgoing ip traffic? Why anyone would realy on a none realtime/fail-safe system is beond me. Can anyone say winNuke?
I see that you are attacking a lesser third world country. Would you like to
0 - Launch Missiles
0 - Fire Cannons
0 - Hide
--WooooHoooo--
Spend a lot of time hanging around secured naval bases taking measurements of the weaponry?
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So the crew would look something like...
1 Captin
1 First Mate
50 Enlisted To Man Stations
103 System Admins to keep NT's "blue screen of death" from sinking the ship
"Capital punishment makes the state into a murderer. Imprisonment makes the state into a gay dungeon-master"
In the US Navy, at least, all crewmembers are trained in fire and damage control, for good reason. One ship's entire damage control crew was wiped out in a blast, and nobody else was trained in damage control. The ship survived the experience, though.
Again, in the US Navy, the standard firefighting gear includes an oxygen mask, so the fumes shouldn't be a problem. Treating crewmembers caught in the fumes before they could get their equipment on will probably require some additional training for the medical personnel, though.
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...sailing will be truly user friendly!
Trypo!!!
'state-of-the-art computers using a Windows NT operating system'
Corrected:
'state-of-the-art computers using not-so-state-of-the-art operating system'
"All great things are simple & expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope." --Churchill
Sea-search radar satellites generally locate ships by the radar reflections of their wakes. Even if all these stealth ships are radar-invisible, they'll generate wakes whenever they're underweigh. How does anyone think they won't be detectable? Maybe not to small countries without satellite resources, but I don't think the US Navy will have any trouble with them.
OK, so It's a dupe, but this time you know it's a dupe.
/., someone in a large news organisation sees story and files it for future research/publication. When it's published, someone reads it and posts it on /.
I forsee a story bounce situation arising in the future. Someone sees a cool story, posts it on
Repeat.
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
Roll Back failed: RPC service not available.
Please update your war.
Windows got into stealth mode.
p.s. Ship navigators should be on HIGH alert at the follwing port 135, and they should be READY to take control into their hands, if anything happens.
Out of order?! Fuck! Even in the future, nothing works.
tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
We had a previous story about this as well.
I mean, I've heard some unsightly rumours that the moderators sometimes miss duplicate stories on Slashdot, but really this is just a joke...
Take that NT network backbone and add a few win98 and win3.11 workstations to it to control weapons fire. No on in their right mind would engage that ship - even if they could find it.
"Capital punishment makes the state into a murderer. Imprisonment makes the state into a gay dungeon-master"
These days if any kind of vehicle gets hit with any kind of major ordnance it's a crater anyway - or in this case, a rapidly filled hole in the water.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
In other news, after returning to dock from it's maiden voyage and unloading the crew, Sweden has apparently misplaced its new stealth ship.
The Captain of the ship was quoted as saying, "I know we brought it back... after all we were on it." He remains adament it will turn up somewhere, he just can't remember where he parked it.
When will Windows be ready for the desktop?
"state-of-the-art computers using a Windows NT operating system"
Are they trying to be sarcastic or something ?
Ultimately this has a "Titanic" ring to it.
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Was that "Blue Screen" in windows invented to help ships blend in with the water?
No, but I imagine you could use software to produce a 3D model from two photographs taken at different angles. So I doubt there's more than one public photo of the beast.
tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
so like when war breaks out and the allies all go like man, where's the swedish navy, the other guys can go like man they're all around us, i bet
If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
Exactly what USE would these people get out of building such a ship? This seems to me like a completely waste of money. Can you name any recent naval battles in the past 20 years or so that warranted having a stealthed ship that would not be picked up on radar?
And please, i'm not talking about deploying troops or anything like that. This serves basically one purpose for the swedish navy R&D guys = We're bored, look what we did with your money!
Carbon fiber too.. all they need now are some vinyl stripes, a big fartcan muffler, and TYPE-R on the side, and I bet somebody in the states would buy it.
Captain to Engine Room (through the low-tech voice tube): Switch to manual control IMMEDIATELY!
You were 80% angel, 10% demon. The rest was hard to explain. - Over The Rhine
"Math in a song is good."-Linford
Named after the person who decided to use NT for the "State of the art" computers.
666-607: 6th floor apartment of the beast
And the pilot who got away, only the world luckiest SOB alive having survivied this AND being shot down and captured by the Vietcong
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
"A lot of modern submarines are extremely hard to detect, but that is always going to be difficult for a surface ship to match."
howabout ?
ping visby.somewhereintheatlantic.gov
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One of my nightmares is that I'll be 30 miles out and discover that I suddenly have one of those "silent" boat engines.
Mmmmm. Swedish Stealth Fish.
...on this. The US Navy did experiments with the Sea Shadow in the 80's (see previous posts), but it was determined that too much everyday utility would have to be sacrificed to acheive true stealthiness. However, some of the features of the Sea Shadow were integrated into new convential ships-of-the-line (like the Arleigh Burke-class guided missle destroyers) such as "secret angles" (LOL) that reduce radar signatures. This Swedish ship isn't much more than a large patrol boat. That's not to say that it can't do it's job effectively; however, it's not designed for long-endurance blue water operations. IMHO, the stealth moniker is for public consumption more than anything else. The best seaborne defense is not stealth, but good defensive weapons such as Sea Sparrows and CIWS (Phalanx)
Don't be a looter...and yes, I know that it's spelled with an "A" instead of an "E".
I vish to use a protractor on your steelth wessels!
Sounds like the fire on the USS Forrestal. I believe both the first and second groups trying to control the fire were wiped out by explosions.
There's some pretty shocking film footage of the whole thing which has been aired a couple of times on the History Channel.
I went there and could not see it. Good stealth boat if I ever saw one. Whoops! I mean didn't see one.
Most scandinavian fjords are actually found in Norway. ;-)
Never heard of a swedish parrot pining for the fjords, have you?
No sig to see here. Move along.
When we are hacked
We then can fall back
And rejoin the attack
With guns and ack-ack!
Booma-locka
Booma-locka
Goooooooo Sweden!
(anybody know if writing anthems for a foreign Navy will affect my passport?)
Most (US) military names use 'X' to signify an experimental design. In this case, I think the 'X' is to indicate the project is to be used for multiple ship classes. Kind of like a variable in a mathematical formula. (Evidence - the program will now be called "DD(X)" to more accurately reflect the program purpose, which is to produce a family of advanced technology surface combatants, not a single ship class)
All that being said, X sure does get used a lot, often in the most retarded of ways. It's just the alphabet's sexiest character. What can you do ?
--LordPixie
They don't want the Finns or the Norwegians to get any ideas. :)
Okay, where are the Norski jokes?
Isnt it funny how geeky we all are ? I mean heavens above! they develop some "really cool" technology to create this uber-stealth ship using fancy carbon fibre techniques etc. And the first thing we do (myself included) is pick up on the use of an aging, buggy and unsupported operating system (Win NT). I just think its amusing ; someone ought to do a study on our behavior here at slashdot. They cant get everything right!
What about the cool things in the story?
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"Quick! Fire lots and lots of ICMP packets at it!"
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
The first truly Stealth ship has not YET been detected. And as long as it remains truly stealth, you will never hear about it or see it. So There!! Bad exclamation- "So not there!"
http://www.reserve-info.de/marine/schiffcz/visby.h tm
j pg
http://homepage.tinet.ie/~steven/images/visby3.
A submarine isn't a ship, it's a boat.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
The sea shadow was publically revealed in 1993...the prototype for Visby, the "Smyge", was uncovered in 1991...
Thats ok, it was furnished by ikea.
No, that was furnished by SatireWire.
Wrong on two counts. McCain wasn't the pilot, though he was nearby. Also, it was a missile that was launched from a plane on deck that caused the fire.
tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
1986, designstart of "Smyge", publically showned in 1991. it was a testbed/prototype and a smaller littorial craft.
U.S Secretary of Defense William Cohen was demonstrated to it in 1997.
pic
1996, designstart of the Visby class... as of 2004 two of these ships have been delivered, the HMS Visby (2001) and HMS Helsingborg (2003). after 2 years of sea trials they are ready to enter full service.
pic! pic
("Translated" of course)
Sweed d00d: WTF?? BSOD!!! BSOD MAY DAY!!! MAY DAY!!
733t F1n: LOLOL!! IN$T4L L1NUX, PR0BL3M S0LV3D!!!
Sweed d00d: Damn you NT...
N0RW4Y R0xx0R$: OMG NORWAY RUSH!!!
Sweed d00d: Oh shi...
Actually, England tested armor that allowed a tank to survive direct hits by both armor-piercing and incendiary shells. Saw it on Modern Marvels a few weeks ago.
tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
Assuming that the computers are "state-of-the-art" they are running a somewhat archaic OS. In fact the OS cannot even recognize the hardware that is currently in my box right now. I say, unless they reworked the NT kernel to support more RAM and faster CPUs and wrote their own drivers for every piece of hardware that they cannot have a "state-of-the-art" computer. Unless of course they are saying it was state-of-the-art back when the first model of this boat was built. Then I may have to agree.
-illumina+us "I put on my robe and wizard hat..."
Blue Sea Of Death
For problems, seek only the simplest solution, complexity brings with it more problems.
...title for a pr0n flick:
"Kockums and the Swedish Navy"
Come to the University of Mars! Classes starting soon!
But your right it was the missles than the bombs, not the other way around
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
The angle is 23 degrees :)
Ships made out of aluminum are hugely vulnerable to damage from a relatively cheap cruise missile, as proved in the falklands (was that the sheffield? One of you brits or argentines help me out here).
carbon fiber, although lighter and etc etc with the article, will not be able to take much damage at all before it is ineffective, it just won't. I know the *idea* is to be stealthy so you don't take damage, but as soon as you release one shot of anything, your position is out there.
Navies in general are becoming less and less relevant with the advances in air warfare. They are OK until you really have to fight, they are good as offensive platforms with an enemy that has little in the way of ordance they can shoot back with, but as soon as it approaches some sort of even-ness, ships start to lose. The carrier battle group is the last effective sort of naval enterprise for actual *fighting* on any realistic scale, and that is primarily because it has it's own aircap and satellite remote sensing and protector subs set out in a perimeter. And only because they haven't been used in a nuclear environment, once nukes start getting used, well, missiles and nukes are still hard to stop, you lose. Right now, a large enough swarm of much cheaper sea skimming cruise missiles can overload any defenses and inflict significant damage, that is why they are trying hard to get the laser weapons operational. It's interesting to see where this will go, sucks they are doing it though. The planet (very generally speaking, applies to all nations and peoples) is still run by at best a few hundred seriously intelligent and seriously insane megalomaniacs, and all these other millions of people still "follow their orders".
OK, tell me how Sea Sparrows and CIWS will help you sneak up onto a suspected smuggling vessel?
This ship isn't built for offense. Heck, with a fibre glass hull it's not even built for defence. It's a large patrol boat, just like you've theorised. When you're a politically neutral country, with nothing but peaceful nations around you, why would you need anything more?
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
The article quotes a British Ministry of Defence official as saying: "We use a secret angle on our Type 23 frigates which enables our ships to reduce their radar signature to an absolute minimum."
Secret angle? Geez. And we US citizens thought the DMCA was bad. I'll have to tell the Math Department that they need to be careful about what they're teaching in Geometry.
I remember the US Navy pix of the Sea Shadow in '91 (right when I got out), and hearing all about it's computer and satellite systems... it was sail by wire, with the possibility of being completely remote operated... Been there, Done that... over 10 years ago...
Logic is the beginning of reason, not the end of it.
Thanks to closed source, how do we know that when it ,inevitably, bluescreens the ships guns won't suddenly pivot and fire at Helsinki University. Or begin targeting wifi signals eminating from linux boxes.
...Oh my god....
But wait! Given that a network of NT computers would only constantly bicker over who is the primary domain controller they'd have to have the clients running on.....
Millions of euros of high tech weaponry under the control of unpatched 95/98/98Se/Me/2000/XP machines, and you KNOW the operators will be browsing the net while the colonel isn't looking.
It's only a matter of time before some script kiddie hijacks the whole boat and uses a modded C&C interface to blow up his beachside school. Stranger things have happened.
May the Maths Be with you!
Hopefully this is the writers silly notion rather than something he was told. A stealth ship 100km away from any navy ship, but running its radar, is just broadcasting its position. (Naval vessels do have radar receivers you know).
Kind of like making a perfectly light absorbing black truck for night usage, then looking around with a giant searchlight!
@Echo Off AT 4:00AM /EVERYDAY reboot.exe
AT 8:00AM /EVERYDAY reboot.exe
AT 12:00PM /EVERYDAY reboot.exe
AT 4:00PM /EVERYDAY reboot.exe
AT 8:00PM /EVERYDAY reboot.exe
AT 12:00AM /EVERYDAY reboot.exe
Actually, you have two planes of angles to work with from the top, and two from the side.
The stealth aircraft have little odd angled "mirror rooms" (for lack of a better words - think a house of horrors hall of mirrors) that temporarily absorb signals, bounce them around a bit and let them out at various angles at various times, which is why they have a signature, but it is a lot like a flock of birds, not an airplane. A ship would probably reflect radar coming from the side into nearby waves and use them for the scattering effect and try to redirect deck waves in a direction other than straight back (thus the non-90 degree angle).
this ship is mostly going to be used to patrol their ample coastline and intercept smugglers and drug runners. commerical marine radar is readily available, and because of that the criminals have amuch easier time of avoiding the patrol ships. however, a stealth ship removes that advantage.
Let's suppose the computers onboard have an internet connection.
In that case sending a *PING* to locate the ship gets a whole new meaning.
Privacy is terrorism.
... can be found here
--- Sigmentation Fault - Comments Dumped
Swedish-born John Ericsson developed the first turret-gunned ironclad, the USS Monitor, in 1862. In many ways, the Monitor was superior to the CSS Virginia, which was built on the cut-down hull of the USS Merrimac. Her guns could bear in all directions, which lowered the need for broadside fire and manuvering. She wasn't very seaworthy (she sank in the Atlantic off Cape Hatteras), but she changed the nature of naval warfare for a century.
Nyekulturniy... Proudly confusing readers and editors since 1981!
Excellent idea...
Bluff the world... Say you have an invisible navy - no one will be able to disprove it! Everyone will think Sweden is the next superpower...
The fastrack to world peace.
Nevrar
But the real question is, "does it run linux?"... oh, wait.
This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.
Let's not forget the Skjold class Motor Torpedo Boat (Fast Patrol Boats).
Radar absorbing materials and sharp edges.
The prototype has participated in NATO naval drills.
Irene KHAAAAAAN!
I can hear the damage control officer: "Now all spackling parties lay to the bulkhead."
Nyekulturniy... Proudly confusing readers and editors since 1981!
Secret angle, eh? How about 30 degrees... down on the bow plane. Reduce that pesky radar signature to 0.
If the g'vt kept the data on you that google does you'd better believe you'd be calling it "doing evil"
I found a pic of the stealth ship, here.
"Derp de derp."
if it's nt 4.0 then as far as i can remember the thing didn't support USB ports.
:)
so the captain won't able to take naughty pictures of girls picked up "in the war" and load them from their cameras to the mainframe ?
and what is the crew supposed to do with their iPod's ?
this boat seems like a lot of wasted money. they could have built a small hovercraft with linux on it for much less $.
and it would be almost as radar transparent as the swedish NT ship which will probably be "invisible" cause you can't really find it under water after a windows-virus-torpedo has rammed the boat.
do they have EMP reflection/covering systems of any kind or can a pen sized EMP bomb take out the whole ship under 1 second ?
I'd tell you the chances of this story being a dupe, but you wouldn't like it.
World's largest aircraft carrier Gotland remains where it has always been.
If you keep the Internet off the ship, there's nothing wrong with NT.
I'm sure all the apps are custom, secured out the ying-yang, and anyone trying to install Outlook or IE is shot on sight.
Of course NT 4.0 sp6 is end-of-lifed but that is roughly irrelevant for most military apps. The ones that need really cool hardware get it. The ones that don't just need old, safe and secure hardware.
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At least that's one ship which will be devoid of the sound of pneumatic paint-chippers.
Proverbs 21:19
Go on. Be a man and click that link.
Wessels? Since when was Chekov Swedish?
We're geeks... We're the sorcerers of the modern-day world. --
Not only is the predated (by a long shot) by the US Navy Sea Shadow program in the mid-80s (as pointed out by another poster), but also by the French 'La Fayette' stealth frigates (circa 1988). Modified versions of that ship are also in use by both Saudi Arabia and Taiwan.
Yeah, it would suck to run out of 5-minute epoxy in the heat of battle and have only that ghastly 90-minute crap. And what if your chief engineer is dead and you only have the chef left to repair the ship? Yoeman Beaker would end up with his head as a load-bearing member.
There's also a French frigate with comparable characteristics, its design is not as stealth and it's not made of carbon but other composite material and it's twice as big. The French Navy has five ships of this type.
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Why develop any new tech? Partially, because the research that went into it helps with other projects, and partially because both the research and the resulting technology can be sold for pretty decent cash.
We may not imagine how our lives could be more frustrating and complex—but Congress can. – Cullen Hightower
I wonder how long it will be until some bloodthirsty dictator considers a worm running on an enemy military computer an act of war?
the first stealth ship has been designed and is sold by the french since years ; it has been sold to saudi arabia and taiwan and it's in service since 1990's. the first swedish class appeared in 2000 (june 2000) and it's built started at the same time the first french models were already serving at sea (while not yet certified for operational use at that time).
:
:)
the visby is a small ship with 43 crewmen and a length of 72 meters while the french "la fayette" is 125 meters with 164 crewmen.
more information on world stealth ships
http://www.lowobservable.com/shipwor.htm
you should also check the last improvements on submarines if you are interested in technology on naval warfare. the most interesting thing is the closed-circuit diesel engines which are the most dangerous threat to any nuclear submarine.
you see, submarines even when stopped have to keep pumps working to cool their nuclear reactor while a diesel engine can really stop and be totally silent, waiting for its nuclear prey to pass by. and since the germans have designed a fully-closed circuit diesel engine that can work for up to a WEEK below water.. it looks like the nuclear submarine is not the idea combat submarine of the future while revised and advanced diesel engines are top-notch
fascinating move isn't it ?
Quick! Remove that spyware! Give me manual controll! Aargh! Smell ice, can you? Reboot! Reboot! Emergency stop! Today! We're doing 30 knots here people!
Irene KHAAAAAAN!
Isn't Sweden supposed to be neutral?
www.lonseidman.com
by the first carbon fiber stealth torpedo running Linux.
(Linux reference mandatory for Slashdot posting)
And once again, it's the US leading the way with the latest in cutting edge mil-spec U.ni.vers1ty Di.plomas!! This was posted to slashdot a while ago.
The 25,000 ton amphibious transport and spam relay
Just a misconfigured shore-side workstation, but it goes to show that any system can misconfigured.
-jason
-jason
If I could only live my life with my threshold at 4...
What's with all these people going "OMG wot do teh Sweds need hax0r ship for??!"? Click here to see a page about some of the Swedish naval ships. I mean, they have submarines and stealth ships, etc. Are these "jokes" and comments about why the Swedish would have any need for a military subtle jokes, or ignorant comments from people in the USA who think they are in the only country on earth with a military and navy?
We are one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. Back to you with the weather, Bob!
On mission critical systems and people that link mission critical systems to internet should be jailed and their key thrown away...
This is not the first stealth ship. The Navy has had a stealth hydrofoil/catamaran design for a while, I believe it's called the P960. They have sold a few to the Norwegians already.
The BBC article makes two glaring errors in the first paragraph, after which I stopped reading.
1. The U2 is not of a stealth design, unless you consider all gliders as stealth aircraft. The U2 was disigned to fly adjecent to enemy territory, and not over it... which is why the russians had no problems shooting down Gary Powers in one when he "got lost".
2. The SR-71 is the fastest production plane ever built, and travelled at Mach 3+. It was designed to do one thing - go fast. The faster you go, the hotter you get. Good luck keeping a monsterous semi-molten speeding aircraft off of a radar screen, regardless of it's shape.
The "first" stealth aircraft was the F-117 which entered service in the 70's, followed by the B-2 which joined in the early 90's.
To claim otherwise is to talk out of your ass, which is normal for reporters I guess.
Religion.
Proverbs 21:19
Most Americans are pretty ignorant about the Swedish military, as well as the history which compels Sweden to maintain a modern defence.
Proverbs 21:19
..with KNM Skjold. It's a similar vessel built with a similar material. It has a very low radar signature.
:P
:P
A bullet from the norwegian standard issue AG-3 would go straight trough the whole ship
They've also built mine-sweepers out of similar materials, to aviod magnetism setting off mines.
More info on KNM Skjold here.
Only the sweeds would go with NT
computers let you make more mistakes faster, with the possible exception of handguns and tequila.
actually it was a zuni rocket. In the millitary missile tends to mean a powered guided munition. The zuni was an ungided rocket. It actually hit the external fuel tank on McCains plane. So he was involved to say the least :) I heard he walked along his inflight refueling probe to escape.
All and all what you would call a bad day.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Once again, the adjective "state-of-the-art" was clearly referring to computer hardware, not to Windows NT running atop it.
The article doesn't state that it is the first stealth ship, just the most stealthy and mentions that the US is working on entering a new stealth ship into service around 2011 (the DD(X) destroyer).
Sweden looks like they're taking a lesson from Switzerland - the best way to ensure neutrality is by being able to defend yourself against your neighbors.
You're giving Switzerland as an example of a vigilant neutral nation? The same Switzerland that's so committed to defending itself that until recently its military personnel didn't carry guns? The same Switzerland that's so obsessed with being neutral in every aspect that it's not even a member of the UN? (Switzerland, like the Vatican City, has permanent observer status at the UN.)
Even ignoring your poor example, the fact remains that Sweden has no enemies whatsoever. Norway certainly isn't a threat (the countries have been peaceful neighbours for a long time now) and even if it was a heavily-armed navy isn't how to best defend yourself against a country with which you share one of the longest land borders in the world. Ditto for Finland. The Baltic states are all NATO members and new to the EU, so the idea of any of them attacking a fellow EU nation is laughable. Which leaves Russia, which wants to join NATO itself, foster greater ties with the EU and to shed off the last vestiges of its Cold War image of the Great Bear.
So, tell me again how much danger Sweden faces from its neighbours in the 21st century?
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
Ah yes, the moderation system.
If you post something at +1 that everyone hates, your post ends up at -1. Net karma: -2
If you post something at +1 that half the moderators think is funny, and half the moderators think is overrated, your post can bounce up and down perpetually, with only the negative votes actually counting toward your karma. If you get 100 mod-ups for being funny and 100 mod-downs for being overrated, net karma: -100.
If you were at the karma cap before, now you're down below most trolls and crapflooders, and can only post twice a day, assuming your IP hasn't been banned.
The goatse guy for president. Win one for the gaper!
shouldn't they have named this ship the Invisby?
-- i'm not paranoid. who told you that???
...and this may have been pointed out, but the US Navy built the first "stealth ship" years ago. This isn't even the first stealth ocean-going surface ship. The us built the IX-529 Sea Shadow in the late 1980's and began testing it in the 1990's.
The word "Visby" is defined in The Meaning of Liff by Douglas Adams and John Lloyd as:
Visby (n) The pointy, tent-like structure in the bedclothes with which a man indicates to his partner that he thinks it's high time she stopped fiddling around in the bathroom cupboard and came to bed.
This is probably not what they intended.
At the BizTalk 2004 product launch, one company was showing of an emergency response system that uses IE as an interface. They simulated a disaster and when they tried using the system to warn people in the area (a select number of people in the room), IE locked up. They killed IE and restarted it. Total time to respond to disaster 1 minute 45 seconds. Needed response time, about 30 seconds. 45 seconds was the goal for maximum response time, but is not acceptable as the regular response time.
Microsoft, Apple, Google, Amazon what's the difference? All steal money from devs and control with walled gardens.
First Mate Higsby checks his email which appears to be coming from Captain Johnson. All of a sudden the main engines shut down, and the forward flood gates open allowing water to begin filling the Visby. Minutes later, Captain Johnson makes an announcement on the bridge that although the Visby is taking on water like a sponge, they will be switching to manual steering so the crew can select a spot in which to drown.
boycott slashdot February 10th - 17th check out: altSlashdot.org
Ha ha ha, you dumb bastard... it's not a schooner, it's a sailboat!
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
A quote from the article:
;)
"Ships will never be completely invisible. A lot of modern submarines are extremely hard to detect, but that is always going to be difficult for a surface ship to match." Commodore Stephen Saunders of Jane's Fighting Ships
Well, I guess that guy never heard of The Philadelphia Experiment
Anyways, as far as a surface ship matching the "undetectability" of a submarine: once they sink they get pretty hard to find, eh?
The link referenced in the /. article seems to be dead, but Google found it's new location.
Amen!
;)
This broken system is especially irking when you post something not meant as a joke, and it is taken that way.
Probably the best thing to do when you reach karma cap is to post everything AC, and possibly mark your username at the bottom of the post. Every once and awhile you see a good +5 interesting or insightful comment posted AC, and you wonder "why'd whoever do that?". Well, now I know, to protect the Karma from the unpredictable, unemployed, humorless, chip-on-shoulder types.
They want Sweden's lutefisk!
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
In a nutshell, if the Visby was 100km from an enemy vessel it could see the enemy on its radar but not vice versa.
I highly doubt it and suspect some sloppy journalism here. As soon as ship or plane firing it's radar invisibility is over. Anti-radiation missiles are in use from fifties, proven themself extremly effective in Vietnam, and can be homed on active radar (modern even on short radar pings). The stelth should be used only with passive detection/guidance means.
Senator John McCain has survived 5 plane crashes, internment in a POW camp, and cancer. I'm convinced he's some kind of stealth Terminator unit.
"The plural of anecdote is not data" -- Bruce Schneier
Actually, I remember reading an article where one of the guys at Skunkworks who developed the technology said that the F-117's signature was about the size of a crow.
And according to this the B-2's and F-22's signatures are about the size of an aluminum marble and an aluminum golf ball, respectively. For comparison's sake, the source says a B-52 signature is that of a sphere with a 170-foot diameter.
Maybe they'll havest more of those awesome little red swedish fishies...
I always though stealth ships were old stuff. Arent they called submarines....?
HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
... that 100 km is over the radar horizon, and neither ship would be able to see the other.
Sean
You will get IP banned if you post as AC :/
:)
Just one failed funny post is enough, my last one reallly failed, and I got banned for at least 3 days, possibly more.
I hope I can post now
This sounds like something out of a Monty Python skit. The BBC's reporter was presumably professional enough not to laugh out loud when the MOD spokesdrone said that.
Anyway, I'm off to the USPTO to patent a few angles.
so they think we're laughing WITH them?
- Disclaimer: Information in this post deemed reliable but not guaranteed.
Redundancy is repeating yourself by restating a point. An oxymoron is two contradicting points used together.
Dull is missing the point entirely, as your misplaced pedantry does.
SIERRA TANGO FOXTROT UNIFORM
Especially with all the radar equipped AK-47s, IEDs, and RPGs that have been killing MOST of our troops since the Vietnam war. I'm sure a carbon-fiber-hulled-radar-invisible gunship is also completely impervious to attacks from small inflatable crafts full of explosives piloted by crazed muslim extremist suicide bombers. And the swedes were brilliant to put their faith in Windows NT, it performs so well in mission critical maritime applications: http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,13987, 00.html
TallGreen CMS hosting
"As well as being the first stealth ship..."
The Norwegian KNM Skjold were built some five years ago, and do have stealth capabilities.
KNM Skjold were last year in the US to demonstrate its capabilities to the US Navy.
From http://www.knmskjold.org/english/engfacts.htm:
"For the first time radar absorbing materials are included in the loadbearing structure (structural RAM) of a vessel over large areas. This contributes to significant weight reduction compared to the conventional method of cladding this material on the outside of the load bearing structure. The ship is designed with a low number of reflective panel orientations and none right angled corners. This is the reason for the faceted external shape of the vessel."
Doesn't the WindowsNT License contain language to the effect that it should not be used in any situation where human lives are at risk? Wouldn't this warship be a perfect example of this? Forget about hackers, what happens when a malfunction accidentally triggers the weapons system?
You are talking about PCs. Personal Computers. This is not about Windows or Linux or whatever your fetish is about. It is about a single x86 computer not normally being considered "state-of-the-art" compared to the really powerful computers. And windows does _not_ run on these systems.
Now, perhaps they do not need anything more powerful than a PC. But state-of-the-art in computing? Puh-leez.
Opinions stated are mine and do not reflect those of the Illuminati
The most interesting about this post is that only half the people that has moderated it (up till now) understood the reference. "Score:3 Interesting"... Do you believe in santa too?
We're both a little off...
I found this, which should shed a little light on things.
being able to survive AP hits would be neat, but why would anybody even be firing incendiary shells at a tank in the first place...?
The answer is 42
thankyou for the clarification of the urban legend. A quick google check showed a lot of sites still reporting the sheffield as being made of aluminum(which was merely my recollection of the reported events back then), but enough with cred, like your link, prove otherwise, so I stand corrected with this material science refresher. Thank you. They did switch back to all or mostly all steel though for new ship design,from various problems with aluminum (mostly it is not that great for armor), some mention in the article in the following link.
For anyone interested, who might not have been around to remember this short but nasty war,here is a link to a short history of the conflict
Coworker of mine had to find new hardware that he could move a failing MS-Windows NT 4.0 server onto, and it was no picnic. Video driver is VGA (1024x768x8 at flat strap, zero hardware acceleration), there's no working USB drivers at all (not that it matters here) and the on-board network card had to be, er, assisted with an end-of-model PCI plugin. And he counts himself lucky to have gotten that far.
As to their claims of invulnerability, may I refer you to CERT's attitude on that matter? Search for "making the theoretical practical since 1992".
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Well i posted this last time this topic was around but i guess i'll just quote myself since someone might want to see the linky to the ntbox the fud is about...
' The combat managment system here,9LV Mark3E from celsiustech/saabtech/saab systems, is already in common use.
I think they have sold some 50 systems to like 8 or 9 countries and i haven't heard of bluescreen issues yet.
Here's a link (in english) to the product. 9LV MK3E '
If you google for skunkworks sea shadow, you should be able to find a picture of it.
So it didn't work then?
Correct - in a way. The stealth ship worked VERY well. It didn't reflect any radar.
The problem was that it wasn't TRANSPARENT. You see the WAVES reflect radar. So even on a low-tech search radar there's a low-grade speckle from the waves - which varies with the wind and wave condition.
The stealth ship blocked the wave reflection. So there was a blank spot where the ship was, and a big streak behind it that was blank as well.
It was like a big dark exclamation point, or an arrowhead, with the "stealth" ship right at the point.
So the project got canned.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
... the Invisby?
I browse Slashdot at +3, Funny
For a corporation or governmental organization to mandate the use of [MS Outlook Express] is the cybernetic equivalent of going to a crowded corner on Castro Street in San Francisco, greasing up one's asshole while standing on the sidewalk, grabbing one's ankles, and yelling "FUCK ME! FUCK ME!" And then whining about getting raped when one finds oneself pulling a train.-- A. Lizard
Since that same class of mistake is being repeated, it seemed appropriate to dig out that quote.
Ordering that critical systems on a warship be run on NT or any derivative operating system is the exact military equivalent to greasing up, bending over. . . in a social context.
I'm glad I'm not going to be on one of those "stealth ships" when the hammer comes down and EVIL TERRORIST HACKERS get blamed when the ship . . . I don't know what it'll do either, but I'm pretty sure it won't be what the captain asked for. And chances are, terrorists will have nothing to do with it, it'll be an e-mail attachment that got automatically opened by somebody's copy of Outhouse Express that'll take the ship down. There are still questions about what role MS operating systems played in a recent multi-state blackout in the USA. Or the missile cruiser Long Beach, which by odd coincidence, was running NT for long enough to get out to sea. Before a systems crash forced it to be towed to port.
If I were Swedish, I'd be demanding that my Member of Parliament start an investigation as to just WTF their Navy was thinking in its decision to make their warships into soft targets and find out who needs to be fired and who merely ought to be demoted. Before one of those ultra-expensive stealth warships finds itself pulling a train.
While the experience of dying for nothing is hardly unique in military history, dying to increase the profits of MS Corporation really isn't worth it.
Tech Public Policy stuff
Like my IKEA furniture?
In rolling seas all those angles will be changing.
Almost, but they do the best damn imitation of a hole in the ocean you've never heard.
A former bubblehead.
Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
I'd hate to be sent out on the deck of that thing in any kind of wind or rough seas!
To cook the occupants. Not nice. But stil effective.
tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
Peace
They had a nice piece on it on the History channel.
Peace
How do you "know" it got canned? As far as I'm aware it's still in SD and still has funding.
The article I saw about it CLAIMED it got canned.
Maybe it went deeper black.
Seems to me you could solve this problem with an active system - a crown of sector antennas and radar amplifiers: Whatever they see in one direction they repeat in the other, with gain in proportion to the ratio of the ship area to antenna area.
One problem with this is that if you get between two retroreflectors your active stealth device becomes the amplifier in a maser oscilator. B-) (But by then you're probably a BIG naked-eye target.)
Another is that you distort the delay time and phase, which might be detectable. But it would be a LOT less detectable than a big black arrowhead on the screen. B-)
A third is that you'll inject noise and still diffract the signal a bit, which would be detectable on passive and active systems respectively. But again it would still be a MUCH smaller target than a non-stealthy ship - like dinghy vs. cruiser.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
It still doesn't sound very useful. I would think that they would be more interested in firing high explosive shells at it - explosive shells are the reason reactive armor had to be invented. I'm skeptical about any reactive armor's ability to deflect damage from significantly-sized armor piercing high explosive rounds, however.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
http://www.industrialnetworking.co.uk/mag/v9-5/f_r ealtime.html
this is not something that is purely NT or PLC but a hybrid of them, at least when used by US military contractors.
That is, it will be in service if MS WNT doesn't crash... remember the Ægis cruiser.
Leandro Guimarães Faria Corcete DUTRA
DA, DBA, SysAdmin, Data Modeller
GNU Project, Debian GNU/Lin
Somebody writes a bunch of text that sounds like The Swedish Chef (from the muppets), and I add the Swedish Chef's famous tagline at the end of it, and you call that a troll? Hey, I thought it was funny, but even if you didn't, that doesn't make it a troll.
I shouldn't feed you (what we have here is the pot calling the kettle a troll), but anyway...
I've installed Linux on an old machine, and barely know enough to be dangerous. I should learn more about it. I've had all too much experience with MS products (I suppose I could be an IT person, but I'd rather clean toilets), and I've seen Windows machines things fail by themselves, and then there's the extra burden of back doors that crackers and spammers regularly exploit, at least until it crashes.
Tag lost or not installed.
What about doppler radar off the waves splashing off the hull?
Granted, it is only moving at about 30 knots, but you might be able to use doppler to separate waves bouncing off the hull from general ocean churn.