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RFID License Plates in the UK
An anonymous reader writes "The UK Government is studying license plates with embedded RFID tags. The plates can be read from 300 feet away and in rapid succession by readers embedded in the road or by 'surveillance vehicles.'"
A key benefit of the e-Plate is that the tag provides an encrypted and secure ID code which is registered in the UK Ministry of Transport's vehicle database. This code prevents tampering, cloning, or other forms of fraud that can currently happen with camera-based systems. Additionally, the e-Plate is designed to shatter if anyone tries to remove or otherwise tamper with it, and the tag can be programmed to transmit a warning if any attempt is made to dislodge the plate.
They said that for DVD encryption too, but look where that got us. Eventually, someone, somewhere will find a way to tamper with it and the best the government will be able to do is, like always, use heavy fines to curb the spread, but it will be futile, just like it was with DVD encryption.
I bet I'll have the plate transmit "YHBT" within two years.
When will they learn?
Before you get your panties in a knot, please note that modern license plates were originally designed so that they could be OCR'ed. They currently use this at the borders here in the US.
Life is the leading cause of death in America.
My big concern with this is of course, privacy. Survelance cameras are already very common in major cities, adding this technology to the cameras or to areas near the cameras would be trivial. Using this technology to monitor access to corporate parking lots would make this very attractive to the private sector. Companies could band togethor to sell data, or sell it to private investigators, who will combine the data into one large database. Your employer can determine the RFID tag for your car by comparing the ID read with the ID used to get into a corporate controlled parking lot. Then the company (or your significant other) can search in some pay-for-use database maintained by firm X to find out where your car was on tuesday when you wern't at work (or missed that dinner date). If your car spends too long near your competitors office, who knows what the corporate response would be.
Government of course will respond in turn, DMCA laws in the US would prevent anyone there (assuming a similar thing was implemented) from determining what their code was (since it is 'encrypted'). The curious would be thrown in jail, or sued, and the major corporations would still enjoy the power.
paul reinheimer
... because, at least in central London, all car number plates are OCR'ed for use in the Congestion Charge scheme; RFID would have less inaccuracies (like the Somerset farmer who got a demand for his 17mph tractor being 150 miles away in London).
James F.
As an outsider, I have noticed that there is not much in the way left of Privacy in the UK.
Is this just not considered important over there? Is a "greater good" mentatlity strong? Or, is it just a no one really cares so the government can get away with anything put on your tinfoil hat oh fuck I got a ticket for going 5mph over attitude?
The ultimate network admin tool needs HELP!
...and speeding tickets in the mail. 'Nuff said.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor
Tampering with plates is a bit easier to track than ripping your DVD's to PC.
Pass by a cop broadcasting l0s3r, and I'm sure he will not say, "Oh well, I guess we can't track him anymore.'
Now they'll know exactly how fast i was going! without using those arbitrary numbers those radar guns make.
Now all I need is a RFID tag stapled to my little buddy so the government can track how often i get it on with the wife. May come in handy for the future population controls and killing off all ppl over 30....
besides our cars are supposed to be just metaphorical extensions of our penises anyway right?
The future is so BRIGHT!
"If I were bound by all laws everywhere I'm sure I would have committed a capital crime somewhere."
Do you mean to tell me that that wherever people drive in the UK, their cars will be "tagged" with a unique identifier that will allow a car to be "traced" back to an owner?
We can't put up with this, people. Next thing you know, police will be able to take this "tag" number, run it though a "computer data base," and find out how many traffic violations you have committed! I, for one, fight tooth and nail to keep this from coming to pass.
dinner: it's what's for beer
How so? All this technology enables is the ability to read the tag off the plates more accurately. Search and seizure is, well, just that. They are not searching your vehical, just identifying it.
Here's a related video showing the RFID capability now installed into tires. Note that the manufacturer is programming the VIN number into the tires. It is only a matter of time before you will not be able to get tires installed without them programming the VIN number.
More infor here.
Life is the leading cause of death in America.
I'm really glad this new technology will soon be available to our brave boys in blue, valiantly battling crime on the streets of the UK.
</Sarcasm>
Honestly, aren't the motorists here persecuted enough? We have speed cameras popping up in every lucrative "accident blackspot" in the UK (I have a number near me that appeared on roads where I can honestly never recall hearing of any accidents, but the local school curiously has none outside the gates), we're getting taxed off of the roads despite the fact the public transport system would be ridiculed by any visitor from afghanistan. So what does our "brilliant" government do? Find a new way to bring in the much needed revenue from those crazy car drivers....
I can't see this going live until after the next election though - it would be political suicide after everything else Blair and co have done.
Code, Hardware, stuff like that.
If you have nothing useful to say post as AC.
This also gives the government (or anyone else who can hack into their systems) the ability to locate your car at any point in time.
Fight Spammers!
Um . . . I'm sorry, I'm coming up short here.
Can't think of a Simpsons license plate reference? Come on... there are dozens:
Just a few:
[8F14] Krusty's pink convertible: KRUSTY
[8F15] Quimby's vehicle: I RULE U
[8F15] Snake's car: EX CON
[8F20] Sideshow Bob & Selma's honeymoon car: IH8 BART
[1F14] Ned's car: JHN 143 (John 14:3)
[2F09] car in lot of nuclear plant: 3MI ISL (3 Mile Island)
[2F13] Hitler's Mercedes Benz: ADOLF1
[2F32] Lionel Hutz's white Bronco: NOT OJ
[3F09] President Ford's limo: MR DUH
[AABF06] Comic Book Guy's car: NCC 1701 (Star Trek)
[8F20] Sideshow Bob's creations: RIP BART, DIE BART, BART DOA, IH8 BART
DIE BART - "Nobody who speaks German could be evil..."
When you have nothing left to burn you must set yourself on fire
Let's say I'm a Muslim in Oregon, and I'm accused of committing a terrorist crime in Cleveland. I have multiple people willing to testify that I was in Oregon at the time. But the police have three different RFID reads placing my car in Cleveland at the time. Which one of these has more credibility in a court of law? Which one should have more credibility?
Human being (n.): A genetically human, genetically distinct, functioning organism.
If this would get the police off the road, and let me speed at will with just a bit of tinfoil, then I'm all for it!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I didn't have a clue what the poster was talking about (Congestion Charge)... so I asked google:
http://www.cclondon.com/whatis.shtml
Suddenly, this RFID buisness doesn't seem so bad in comparison to what Londoners are already going through.
...look at stories such as this and worry about the loss of privacy. What makes you think you have any privacy now? I'm not trying to be flippant, but privacy in the US and most of Europe has become an illusion. Your cell phone can or will be able to track you; your use of credit cards tracks you; the fact that you have a social security card (in the US) or a license can be used to track you.
Many of us, myself included, thought that our privacy would be robbed of us by some huge, overbearing government like a thief in the night. But you know what? We gave it up for nothing but convienence and our never-ending desire for newer and better gadgets.
Don't be a looter...and yes, I know that it's spelled with an "A" instead of an "E".
Wonder how susceptible this is going to be to a microwave oven. Sure, it's going to fuck your oven, but it should also provide an easy way to disable the tag. Drilling a hold through the RFID would also be effective I suspect.
I understand the need to monitor criminals and terrorists, but I really don't like the idea of having the government (anyone in fact) able to freely track my every movement. We have the Oyster card (RFID enabled travelcard) for the Underground over here, os it will get to the point one day that you won't be able to buy or sell or travel without being monitored. Kinda biblical almost.
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
A few years later, the govt requires everyone to carry personal RFIDs when out in public, 'for your protection.' You think, "that's not cool, but I haven't done anything wrong." So you let it happen. You probably believe the the few who bother to protest are in the tinfoil hat-wearing crowd. "Only people who have something to hide should be concerned," you assure yourself. Besides, nothing bad happened when the govt started tracking vehicles. "Alarmists," you think. So you swallow another one.
Then the govt decides that every room in every home should have a camera, 'for your protection.' At this, you balk: "that's going way to far!" you cry.
Too late. You didn't care when they put protection devices on cars, or on people, but why do you care now? Surely, you must have something to hide. "Don't worry," grins the guard, "they'll cure you of those subversive thoughts at the Ronald W. Reagan Memorial Reeducation Center.
Moral: Every right you abnegate while gaining nothing in return is another proverbial nail in your coffin. Unless there is a demonstrated benefit (Fox "news" saying there is does not count) for your tact acceptance, your acquiescence robs us all.
Yeah, right.
You grab the RFID of plates for whatever dumb politicians allowed this to go though, and then replicate them for anyone who feels like taking a quick little spin down the road?
You don't even need the RFID on your plates, in fact it might would better with a seperate RFID responder (RFID is fairly passive, can you send a boosted return signal?).
The safety/privacy concerns of this are staggering. Yes, I can always sit and watch for "license plate X" on the highway, but I'm sure that it wouldn't be hard for a non-governmental person/corp could actively scan plates with a homebrew scanner. Think advertisement, lots of advertisement (as they start to track your movements and where you frequently park your car), or perhaps even stalkers.
Public transport works, and works well. I don't need a car where I live (london), even though I work miles away from where I live. I just jump on a bus, then change for a train. That takes me clear across London in well under an hour.
You see people driving around on their own in cars, taking up as much room as half a bus (yet half of the bus carries over 30 people, as opposed to just one).
I see motorists as a large source of pollution and wasted space. I think it's absolutely fine to tax motorists. In london especially, there really is no need for a car. Got something to take home? Stick your hand out in the road and climb into the big, shiny black thing that's pulled up within a minute. The taxi driver will know his way to your house better than you will, and you don't have to drive all the way there yourself.
If someone can please explain to me why people feel the need to drive a large, wasteful, polluting machine around already congested roads and not get charged a penny for it, I'm all ears.
I know that in the case of vehicles, these types of things are designed to create revenue for the local police departments and whatnot, but honestly, I don't think this will help make the roads any safer. All it will do is force you to mind every little detail of the law, no matter how insignificant, even in situations where it really doesn't make much sense, as in the case of standing at stop signs for 3 seconds when there are clearly no cars around. I do NOT advocate running stop signs, or even just slowing down and then blazing through them. On the contrary, I hate it when people do that. But if you're stopping, and the car is almost at a complete stop, and you can clearly see that there are no cars approaching, and it is perfectly safe, then what difference does it make if you actually come to a halt and wait for three seconds?
The officer who stops you for that should be looking for the reckless driver, late to work, who is weaving between the cars, going twice the speed limit, and so stressed out that he's about to get someone killed. But instead, the officer will wait on some secluded street, where about three cars pass in an hour, because he knows that none of those three cars will make a 100% stop at the stop sign, and then he'll write those drivers tickets. Meanwhile, on the main road, someone is driving drunk on the wrong side of the road. If you've ever wondered why the police are always there when you do something insignificant that is "wrong" but they're not when something truly dangerous is going on? That's why.
So the short version of all that is that I am against putting any kind of tracking technologies in vehicles because first, it will be for convenience, then, it will be for safety, and finally, when nobody is noticing and the technology is widespread and in place, it will be for revenue purposes. Without adding safety.
RFID will drastically ease the ability of anyone to perform surveillance of everyones movements. The article reports that they can be read from distances of up to a hundred meters distance.
Let me put it this way:
My license plate number is public knowledge. You can come take a look at it without me complaining. For around 2 decades my Email address was also public knowledge (my first Email@ was on a Multics system connected to the Arpanet). With the abuse of Email through SPAM this is no longer possible. The proposed RFID system is apparently almost as easy to abuse as is SMTP. The widespread deployment of RFID, the extremely low barrier apparent and the absence of any penalty for the abuse of this system will make it possible for any organization with enough motivation & funding to spy out who goes where & when. The potential for abuse is boundless.
I can see how you may have difficulties comprehending my position. As a marxist you may place the purported greater good before that of the individual. As one who believes instead that society is only protected when individuals rights are protected, I do not.
Unless there are clear safeguards against the abuse of the system, I'll zap it.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
FACT: Discarded auto tires contribute 1,243,918 tons of non-recyclable trash to US landfills every year.
FACT: In the United States and Canada in 2003, 87 children under the age of eighteen were seriously injured in accidents involving unregistered tire-swings 70% of which were suspended from unregistered trees.
FACT: In Europe, where private ownership of tire-mounting machines has long been prohibited, not one violent crime was committed with an unregistered tire-mounting machine in the last decade..
FACT: In 2003, 4,451 children below the age of 18 were killed or seriously wounded in accidents involving improperly-secured home tire-mounting machines.
FACT: In French Guiana, where the law forbids private ownership of radio frequencies, the wealth-gap between rich and poor is only 10% of that found in the United States, and studies have shown unequivocally that tires wear up to 40% longer.
FACT: In both Cuba and Canada, publicly-funded health care ensures that doctors can't afford large, heavy SUVs, resulting in significantly diminished levels of tire-related non-recyclable waste.
I am no political scientist, nor a historian for that matter, but I remember coming across an interesting idea posited by one of America's 'founding fathers' (either Washington or Franklin?)
--begin paraphrase--
It is evident that in history, cultures progress through different states of rule. In many cases, the people are ruled by a strict tyranny. The people will revolt and establish some sort of self-rule. After a period of time, those in power will gradually take freedoms from the people whilst the people slip further into ignorance and laziness, thus capitulating their rights to the elite. At some point, the government has come full cycle and exists as a tyranny. This repeats itself throughout history
--end paraphrase--
All people should voice their opinions about the use of this technology. Technology has a habit of limiting instead of broadening people's freedoms.
Remember, a flood starts with one drop of water...
... I told you so (although that sentiment's probably redundant by now). RFID apologists defense of choice is that the readers only work at a distance of up to 18 inches, IIRC. Well these work up to 300 feet. Meaning that as soon as RFID is universally accepted, I just get my hands on one of these 300-foot-range scanners, and go driving through the suburbs looking for the house with the most stuff to rob... And yes, I did read the article, and yes, they are battery powered, but so what? Creating a very small battery to go along with the RFID chip is a technical problem that's very easily overcome, just like the 18 inches limitation was easily overcome when many here declared vociferously that said limitation would make RFID all cuddly and innocuous.
The point is that everybody who said that RFID will never have a range longer thatn 18 inches have already been proven wrong, even before RFID has even begun to be implemented. You pro-RFID folks care for some salt with that crow?
The real point of the matter is that NOBODY has a right to see what possessions I have in my house. Not a stranger/burglar on the street, not the government, NOBODY.
They will never stop until somebody makes the
Otherwise, I'm not worried about them tracking my moves.
In that case, you wouldn't mind a police officer pulling you over at random to check your ID, right? And while he has you stopped, you don't mind if he conducts a search of your vehicle and your person, right?
Those examples are a bit extreme, but in the eyes of the courts, they all violate the Fourth Amendment. A police officer has to have cause to search your vehicle, to check your ID, or even to follow you or track your moves. That cause can be that he observed you commit an offense or that he has a reasonable suspicion that you have committed one--but he can't pick your car out of a crowd and pull you over on a whim. You should expect the same deference whether he has the ability to track your vehicle or not.
!#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
don't even get me started on the shit holes that pass as buses!
i have every right to drive a car - it is a perfectly valid form of transport - it gets me from a to b, its comfortable, reliable, there aren't any drunk morons talking way too loudly for the whole journey (well not in my car anyway) and it used to be reasonably cheap.
but labour has taxed the motorsit to death scince they got into power under the pretense of protecting the envrionment. it is an outrage. i wouldn't mind if ANY of that tax actually made public transport usable but it doesn't. they seem to tax and tax and tax and etc... but never do the trains get any better, never do the buses run on time, and the roads are probably the worst in the western world
pah! this is just another way for the govenment to get money out of us - it has nothing to do with the envrionment at all, as proved by the fact that despite the taxes the level of traffic on the roads has increased a lot scince labour got into power, taxes will not clean up the envrionment and neither will getting people to use public transport - cus buses and trains still (at some point) burn fossil fuels