RFID License Plates in the UK

An anonymous reader writes "The UK Government is studying license plates with embedded RFID tags. The plates can be read from 300 feet away and in rapid succession by readers embedded in the road or by 'surveillance vehicles.'"

Comments

Just Great...

[Lyssa Watson]

A key benefit of the e-Plate is that the tag provides an encrypted and secure ID code which is registered in the UK Ministry of Transport's vehicle database. This code prevents tampering, cloning, or other forms of fraud that can currently happen with camera-based systems. Additionally, the e-Plate is designed to shatter if anyone tries to remove or otherwise tamper with it, and the tag can be programmed to transmit a warning if any attempt is made to dislodge the plate.

They said that for DVD encryption too, but look where that got us. Eventually, someone, somewhere will find a way to tamper with it and the best the government will be able to do is, like always, use heavy fines to curb the spread, but it will be futile, just like it was with DVD encryption.

I bet I'll have the plate transmit "YHBT" within two years.

When will they learn?

Re:Just Great...

[BlackHawk-666]

Shh, Echalon is also likely monitoring your SlashDot posts as well. Actually, with all the CCTV, RFID on the Underground and other surveilance in place on your mobile phone, landlines, and internet connections I suspect we here in London are amoung the most spied upon in the world. Using a customer loyalty card (Nectar) is only going to make it worse since multiple companies can now aggregate your purchases across the whole chain . What is the modern world going to be like in a few more years when this stuff is omnipresent?

Before

[swordboy]

Before you get your panties in a knot, please note that modern license plates were originally designed so that they could be OCR'ed. They currently use this at the borders here in the US.

Privacy?

[PktLoss]

My big concern with this is of course, privacy. Survelance cameras are already very common in major cities, adding this technology to the cameras or to areas near the cameras would be trivial. Using this technology to monitor access to corporate parking lots would make this very attractive to the private sector. Companies could band togethor to sell data, or sell it to private investigators, who will combine the data into one large database. Your employer can determine the RFID tag for your car by comparing the ID read with the ID used to get into a corporate controlled parking lot. Then the company (or your significant other) can search in some pay-for-use database maintained by firm X to find out where your car was on tuesday when you wern't at work (or missed that dinner date). If your car spends too long near your competitors office, who knows what the corporate response would be.

Government of course will respond in turn, DMCA laws in the US would prevent anyone there (assuming a similar thing was implemented) from determining what their code was (since it is 'encrypted'). The curious would be thrown in jail, or sued, and the major corporations would still enjoy the power.

Re:Privacy?

[Dark Lord Seth]

Survelance cameras are already very common in major cities

I live in some minor shitsville in the middle of the Netherlands and those goddamn speeding cameras are common around here. In fact, there are so many around here the provincial goverment has denied a request to place more cameras, due to the fact there are so many already. Heck, there's a 800m stretch of road with FOUR cameras. If you go 54 km/h for even a few dozen meters, you're bound to end up 28 euros poorer. Now before people will scream "safety" and "the law", I'd like to remind people this road could take 80km/h with ease, there are NO sidewalks adjacent to the road and no building for kids or disabled people.

This, coupled with the facts the dutch police has "prestation contracts" that state they will bring in a minimum amount of euros on fines and the fact the police only posts cameras and surveillance vehicles where profitable instead of logical really make me doubt wether the police is there for my security not for my money. I really don't want an RFID tag in my car so those greedy bastards can squeeze more money from me. What's next, are they going to tie the RFID tag into the onboard computers? A nice note reading "You were speeding, your front lights are too dim, you ran a traffic light three days ago and you're using the wrong diesel fuel.", along with a 150 euro bill? I just wish the goverment would stop lying to me and say "Yeah, we're doing it for the money." instead of this bullshit story about safety.

This is a Good Thing...

[Jon Chatow]

... because, at least in central London, all car number plates are OCR'ed for use in the Congestion Charge scheme; RFID would have less inaccuracies (like the Somerset farmer who got a demand for his 17mph tractor being 150 miles away in London).

Re:This is a Good Thing...

[Waffle Iron]

like the Somerset farmer who got a demand for his 17mph tractor being 150 miles away in London

I for one support measures that discourage people from driving inefficient polluting farm equipment hundreds of miles just to go shopping in the city. Attempting to maneuver a bulky tractor on cramped London streets was surely a safety menace to motorists and pedestrians alike. He should have considered taking some form of public transportation instead.

If RFID tags can help keep tractors and combine harvesters off of our city streets, then I support them 110%.

Sensors in the roads...

[JustDisGuy]

...and speeding tickets in the mail. 'Nuff said.

Might as well paint your car 'Arrest me Red'

[Trigun]

Tampering with plates is a bit easier to track than ripping your DVD's to PC.
Pass by a cop broadcasting l0s3r, and I'm sure he will not say, "Oh well, I guess we can't track him anymore.'

Re:Might as well paint your car 'Arrest me Red'

[Trigun]

And when they tie your plate RFID to a silver Land Rover and you're driving a blue Ka, or they pull you over for faulty plates and see a bunch of wires hanging out of your boot to the plate, the Government is going to be able to track you much easier in your 6 X 10 prison cell.

But don't let me stop you from tampering with your plate.

Re:Might as well paint your car 'Arrest me Red'

[plugger]

Do you REALLY think they have the time and/or manpower to read every plate, and them crosscheck it with what color the car actually is?

That's what machines are for.

Re:Might as well paint your car 'Arrest me Red'

[0x0d0a]

If this is RFID, it's eaasily jammable, as the RFID signal is quite weak.

As a matter of fact, I can't understand how these people are planning to read these things from 160 feet away. Maybe a directional antenna?

On the upside, perhaps these will soon be set up in an automated fashion at measured intervals in the United States. It will become impossible to speed over stretches of highway covered by these. Auto accidents still kill a tremendous number of people annually -- a lot more than "terrorists", whom we in the US have given up a lot more freedoms to combat (and spent more money on) than simply automated license plate reading.

Re:Might as well paint your car 'Arrest me Red'

[dheltzel]

Fun idea: Make a "HERF gun" type device to permanently disable the tags from a short distance. Then sit by the roadside and whack all the RFID tags of the vehicles as they pass by. The cops will have a lot of fun stopping all those innocent people and trying to figure out how all the RFID tags on the block are toast.

Disabling your own tag might single you out for persecution (and prosecution), but doing it to everyone's tag would create a gigantic mess for the perps of this scheme.

ALRIGHT!!!!!

[arakon]

Now they'll know exactly how fast i was going! without using those arbitrary numbers those radar guns make.

Now all I need is a RFID tag stapled to my little buddy so the government can track how often i get it on with the wife. May come in handy for the future population controls and killing off all ppl over 30....

besides our cars are supposed to be just metaphorical extensions of our penises anyway right?

The future is so BRIGHT!

Re:ALRIGHT!!!!!

[bl8n8r]

> track how often i get it on with the wife.
well, on the bright side.. you could also track how often I get it on with your wife too.

How DARE they invade our privacy!

[Mr. Neutron]

Do you mean to tell me that that wherever people drive in the UK, their cars will be "tagged" with a unique identifier that will allow a car to be "traced" back to an owner?

We can't put up with this, people. Next thing you know, police will be able to take this "tag" number, run it though a "computer data base," and find out how many traffic violations you have committed! I, for one, fight tooth and nail to keep this from coming to pass.

Here's a video and more info

[swordboy]

Here's a related video showing the RFID capability now installed into tires. Note that the manufacturer is programming the VIN number into the tires. It is only a matter of time before you will not be able to get tires installed without them programming the VIN number.

More infor here.

Re:Here's a video and more info

[worst_name_ever]

You can put away the tinfoil hat - tires aren't that hard to install yourself! Just think of them as round rubber Linux distros and you'll be fine.

but...

[www.sorehands.com]

This also gives the government (or anyone else who can hack into their systems) the ability to locate your car at any point in time.

Re:but...

[B'Trey]

It may not be possible to know the exact location at any given point in time, but how difficult would it be to put a reader at every intersection in a city? At every on and off ramp on a highway? The state now has a record of everywhere you went on any given day.

Yes, a helo can follow you around and yes, toll booths can track you from one to the next. That's a completely different thing than the state being able to say "Who? Hacksaw? What date? Hold on, let me run this query. Yeah, here you go. Here's a time stamped map of everywhere his car went on that day, every where he stopped, and how long he was there. Anything else I can do for you?"

Re:Obligatory Simpsons Reference

[Lev13than]

Um . . . I'm sorry, I'm coming up short here.

Can't think of a Simpsons license plate reference? Come on... there are dozens:

Just a few:
[8F14] Krusty's pink convertible: KRUSTY
[8F15] Quimby's vehicle: I RULE U
[8F15] Snake's car: EX CON
[8F20] Sideshow Bob & Selma's honeymoon car: IH8 BART
[1F14] Ned's car: JHN 143 (John 14:3)
[2F09] car in lot of nuclear plant: 3MI ISL (3 Mile Island)
[2F13] Hitler's Mercedes Benz: ADOLF1
[2F32] Lionel Hutz's white Bronco: NOT OJ
[3F09] President Ford's limo: MR DUH
[AABF06] Comic Book Guy's car: NCC 1701 (Star Trek)
[8F20] Sideshow Bob's creations: RIP BART, DIE BART, BART DOA, IH8 BART

DIE BART - "Nobody who speaks German could be evil..."

Re:Privacy in the UK

[pubjames]

I think the truth is that people in the UK get upset about what the newspapers tell them to get upset about. There is very little about this kind of thing in the papers, so people don't get upset about it.

However, you can be sure that if the EU proposed RFID license plates, the newspapers would be all over it and there would be national outrage. People seem so concerned with opposing anything the EU does that they don't notice the things their own government is doing.

Done nothing wrong != nothing to hide

[Safety Cap]

Otherwise, I'm not worried about them tracking my moves. Who wants to track me?

This common thought is what is most dangerous. Right now you aren't concerned that they can/will track you, because you have done nothing wrong. What happens when tracking vehicles becomes legal, and tampering with tracking devices is declared a crime? "So what?" you ask, "It doesn't apply to me; I'm a good citizen."

A few years later, the govt requires everyone to carry personal RFIDs when out in public, 'for your protection.' You think, "that's not cool, but I haven't done anything wrong." So you let it happen. You probably believe the the few who bother to protest are in the tinfoil hat-wearing crowd. "Only people who have something to hide should be concerned," you assure yourself. Besides, nothing bad happened when the govt started tracking vehicles. "Alarmists," you think. So you swallow another one.

Then the govt decides that every room in every home should have a camera, 'for your protection.' At this, you balk: "that's going way to far!" you cry.

Too late. You didn't care when they put protection devices on cars, or on people, but why do you care now? Surely, you must have something to hide. "Don't worry," grins the guard, "they'll cure you of those subversive thoughts at the Ronald W. Reagan Memorial Reeducation Center.

Moral: Every right you abnegate while gaining nothing in return is another proverbial nail in your coffin. Unless there is a demonstrated benefit (Fox "news" saying there is does not count) for your tact acceptance, your acquiescence robs us all.

How about

[phorm]

You grab the RFID of plates for whatever dumb politicians allowed this to go though, and then replicate them for anyone who feels like taking a quick little spin down the road?

You don't even need the RFID on your plates, in fact it might would better with a seperate RFID responder (RFID is fairly passive, can you send a boosted return signal?).


The safety/privacy concerns of this are staggering. Yes, I can always sit and watch for "license plate X" on the highway, but I'm sure that it wouldn't be hard for a non-governmental person/corp could actively scan plates with a homebrew scanner. Think advertisement, lots of advertisement (as they start to track your movements and where you frequently park your car), or perhaps even stalkers.

Re:Privacy in the UK

[misterpies]

Unfortunately, you're absolutely right. We have CCTV cameras covering most public places, we're about to get compulsory biometric ID cards, and now this.

Political debate on this has become monopolised by the law-and-order brigade. Any attempt to raise a protest about privacy and citizens' rights is met with one or more of the following responses:

1. If you've nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear
2. If you don't support us, you're helping terrorists/criminals/illegal immigrants
3. The "people" have no time for "bleeding heart liberals" like you (the favourite put-down of our beloved Home Secretary)

Funny thing is at the same time the government is taking away the last shreds of our privacy, they're talking about changing the freedom of information laws to prevent citizens from finding out what _they_ are up to.

Why don't the people react? I don't know. Maybe it's the incessant banging on from the press about the crime, immigration and terrorism. I'm starting to think it's because most British people couldn't care less about their rights so long as there's beer in the fridge and football on the telly.

Facts about tire-mounting machines

[Anonymous Coward]

FACT: Discarded auto tires contribute 1,243,918 tons of non-recyclable trash to US landfills every year.

FACT: In the United States and Canada in 2003, 87 children under the age of eighteen were seriously injured in accidents involving unregistered tire-swings 70% of which were suspended from unregistered trees.

FACT: In Europe, where private ownership of tire-mounting machines has long been prohibited, not one violent crime was committed with an unregistered tire-mounting machine in the last decade..

FACT: In 2003, 4,451 children below the age of 18 were killed or seriously wounded in accidents involving improperly-secured home tire-mounting machines.

FACT: In French Guiana, where the law forbids private ownership of radio frequencies, the wealth-gap between rich and poor is only 10% of that found in the United States, and studies have shown unequivocally that tires wear up to 40% longer.

FACT: In both Cuba and Canada, publicly-funded health care ensures that doctors can't afford large, heavy SUVs, resulting in significantly diminished levels of tire-related non-recyclable waste.

Well let me be the first to say...

[bechthros]

... I told you so (although that sentiment's probably redundant by now). RFID apologists defense of choice is that the readers only work at a distance of up to 18 inches, IIRC. Well these work up to 300 feet. Meaning that as soon as RFID is universally accepted, I just get my hands on one of these 300-foot-range scanners, and go driving through the suburbs looking for the house with the most stuff to rob... And yes, I did read the article, and yes, they are battery powered, but so what? Creating a very small battery to go along with the RFID chip is a technical problem that's very easily overcome, just like the 18 inches limitation was easily overcome when many here declared vociferously that said limitation would make RFID all cuddly and innocuous.

The point is that everybody who said that RFID will never have a range longer thatn 18 inches have already been proven wrong, even before RFID has even begun to be implemented. You pro-RFID folks care for some salt with that crow?

The real point of the matter is that NOBODY has a right to see what possessions I have in my house. Not a stranger/burglar on the street, not the government, NOBODY.