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Labels Find New Method of Payola

rhadamanthus writes "The Houston Chronicle is reporting on the newest 'legal' payola tactic put forth by the record industry: playing the song as an advertisement. It seems that while it is illegal to pay a radio station to play a song, it is not illegal to play a song as an ad. Quoth the article, 'The practice is legal as long as the station makes an on-air disclosure of the label's sponsorship -- typically with an introduction such as "And now, Avril Lavigne's Don't Tell Me, presented by Arista Records."' Incidentally, that song was played 109 times in one week by Nashville station WQZQ-FM."

67 of 605 comments (clear)

  1. Record labels are still up to their old tricks by xerph · · Score: 4, Insightful

    All five major record corporations have at least dabbled in the sales programs, industry sources said, with some reportedly paying as much as $60,000 in advertising fees to promote a single song.

    This seems to be just one more underhanded tactic being utilized by the record labels these days.

    a few hundred spins here and there can move a song up a place or two in the rankings -- and ensure that it is climbing rather than falling on the charts.

    When it comes down to it, the labels are still effectively following the old outlawed practice of "paying for play", trying to hide behind a technicality in current US law. Though, that's something they seem to be doing a lot of these days.

    1. Re:Record labels are still up to their old tricks by eggoeater · · Score: 3, Insightful
      ...as much as $60,000 in advertising fees to promote a single song
      ...all of which is charged back to the artist, indebting them to the label until the release makes money.
    2. Re:Record labels are still up to their old tricks by ron_ivi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Personally, I'd kinda like it if all the ads got replaced by songs. The station would still need to worry about if the balance of good vs. sucky songs got played, in the same way they worry about advertisers that offend their listeners.

    3. Re:Record labels are still up to their old tricks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      So are you claiming that they shouldn't be allowed to advertise their products? If so, why not?

      Because it's unduly hypocritical of them to be paying money saturate the airwaves with free product, then turn around and accuse their customers of stealing what they're giving away for free.

    4. Re:Record labels are still up to their old tricks by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 5, Insightful

      ...all of which is charged back to the artist, indebting them to the label until the release makes money. ... the artist who knew the exact terms and conditions the instant they signed up with the label.

    5. Re:Record labels are still up to their old tricks by proj_2501 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      except that 'all promotion expenses' doesn't sound all that bad when you're having a fun signing party with the label's rep, who is as young and cool as your band!

    6. Re:Record labels are still up to their old tricks by MojoRilla · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ... the artist who knew the exact terms and conditions the instant they signed up with the label.

      Do artists have a viable choice?

    7. Re:Record labels are still up to their old tricks by Don'tTreadOnMe · · Score: 2, Insightful
      So all 17-year-olds (such as Avril Lavigne) are wise enough to ignore the bullshit, read the small print, etc?

      While I think it is unconscionable for a label to use such terms in their contracts, it is business, and any adult entering a business contract is presumed to either understand the terms, or to have obtained advice from a professional who understands the terms.

      That said, if Avril really is 17, then she is not legally able to enter into a contract in most states in the US, and so can claim youth in order to have the contract voided. If she so chooses...

    8. Re:Record labels are still up to their old tricks by hambonewilkins · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Since Avril Lavigne is not 18, she couldn't sign a contract without a co-signer, probably her agent/lawyer/parents. These people should obviously know how to read a legal document.

      --

      God Bless America. Why? Did it sneeze?
    9. Re:Record labels are still up to their old tricks by soulsteal · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, get a real job.

    10. Re:Record labels are still up to their old tricks by NoData · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah gee I dunno, perhaps continue the lot in life as 'starving artists' who truely love producing their art and would do it no matter what they got paid?

      You mean exactly what most of them get after signing with a label?

    11. Re:Record labels are still up to their old tricks by RickHunter · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nope. That's what oligopoly means. You can choose any label you want to as long as it's an RIAA label.

    12. Re:Record labels are still up to their old tricks by (trb001) · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Independant labels that will give them a better deal, or promoting themselves.

      Look, I've listened to a lot of bands that have performed locally and then made their way up from there. Nothing says you have to get that recording contract immediately...play for awhile on the local circuit, probably holding down other jobs as well. Just because some people make it big/rich quick doesn't mean it's owed to you. Whatever happened to good, hard, honest work?

      On the flip side, a great many bands do this. Most of the bands I listen to I got into because of their live shows (Andrew W.K., O.A.R.). These bands sold me on their music without even talking to a record label.

      --trb

    13. Re:Record labels are still up to their old tricks by jayhawk88 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, and since these artists are legal and financial experts, or already have enough money to hire a reputable attorney and financial manager, it's all their fault that they get taken by record companies, isn't it?

    14. Re:Record labels are still up to their old tricks by nwbvt · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Believe it or not, there are these things called 'indie labels' that many of us buy from. In fact, Brittney Spears, the Backstreet Boys, and a number of other crappy pop groups got famous with Zomba long before they were bought by BMG.

      And I know I've said this a million times, but the RIAA does not own any labels. They are a trade group, not a record company. Big difference between the two.

      --
      Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
    15. Re:Record labels are still up to their old tricks by smcn · · Score: 4, Insightful
      "Whatever happened to good, hard, honest work?"
      On that note, since I've got karma to burn, whatever happened to music being considered an art form instead of just another trendy career choice?
    16. Re:Record labels are still up to their old tricks by gregmac · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Instead of writing crappy music and trying to be superstars by selling their souls to the record company, maybe they could try writing honest music and making an honest living off it.

      Make sure you don't confuse producers with artists. A lot of acts, particularly pop music where there is just a single singer and no 'band' per-se, is written by a producer or a song writer employed by a major label (often being told "we need a nice fun summer hit song"). The producers then decide who they should get from their talent pool to sing it (ie: who will make it a hit, who hasn't released something in a while, who looks best in the video - which likely is already written - for this song).

      These sorts of artists are basically scouted by the industry, and turned into stars. How is someone off the street, who would normally never make it anywhere, going to turn down an offer to become a big star and make a crapload more money than they're making now at mcdonalds?

      --
      Speak before you think
    17. Re:Record labels are still up to their old tricks by sadler121 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Que the internet and P2P.

      Sure the RIAA may control the airwaves, but (for the moment), they don't control the Internet. If a band wanted to get noticed nationaly all they would have to do is set up a web site, Bit Torrent there album, and let word of mouth do the rest, by spreading around flyers with the bands web site at every gig/concert.

      The band would continue on locally, earning money from gigs/concerts, and as word spread around the Internet, more and more people would show up at gigs, and concerts, making more money for the band, evetually they would have a good cash base to do a tour and earn even more money that way.

    18. Re:Record labels are still up to their old tricks by proj_2501 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Plenty of the composers still touted as musical geniuses today earned their money by composing ditties for kings.

    19. Re:Record labels are still up to their old tricks by Cobralisk · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Baloney. I can go downtown on any given night, pay a small cover at any number of a dozen or more bars, and get in to hear live music from local talent.

      That's great. I love live local music. However, in many places across the country, there are two major requirements for this kind of access:

      • You must live in a metropolitan area.
      • You must be at least 21 years of age to enter a bar.
      16-20 year olds in suburbia are a major market for music. Due to forces outside of their control, the major music exposure they get is in the form of MTV and radio. This is in large part the reason that for this age group those in control of broadcast media dominate the listening habits of our youth. Broadcast media is controlled by an oligopoly (ClearChannel, Infinity...) financed by another oligopoly (Sony, BMG...) to deliver heavily marketed homogenous consumer fluff music. Tie-in some major branding (Pepsi), and there's just too much money at stake to allow youth to make their own choices about what they listen to. How many times have you caught yourself remembering the lyrics to a song you hate because its always being played around you?
      --
      Waiting for ad.doubleclick.net...
    20. Re:Record labels are still up to their old tricks by iminplaya · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If a band wanted to get noticed nationaly all they would have to do is set up a web site, Bit Torrent there album...

      This is precisely what the RIAA is trying to prevent...by vilifying P2P and their attempts to have it banned. All this talk about piracy and kiddie porn is just a "wag the dog" thing. They're trying to outlaw self distribution.

      --
      What?
    21. Re:Record labels are still up to their old tricks by b0r0din · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's never as easy as that.

      First off, there are successful bands who never got airtime on MTV. There are very few of them, however, and most of them are still under big labels, like Phish.

      Secondly, enough distribution and advertising to become a hot item without the major labels in our current culture is near impossible due to several things:

      1) So-called Independants which are basically the new payola. You can't get on the radio because it's all owned by Clear Channel, hence why you hear the same 15 songs being played on every radio station. Even classic rock has sold out so you only hear like 5 bands on classic rock stations nowadays. Zeppelin, Aerosmith, AC/DC and two others.

      2) An absolute stranglehold on the lawmaking institution due to heavy political lobbying.

      3) Media conglomeration. You can't be on MTV or VH1 (owned by the same HUGE conglomerate) without a major label behind you. You can't get nominated for a Grammy without one. You can have a great music video and they still wouldn't distribute it.

      You also can't get on the cover of Rolling Stone or any major magazine, or even be a blurb in there, without someone covering you. Rolling Stone is NOT an independant media company. See media conglomerate. And they won't cover you unless you're up and coming AND on a major label.

      4) Internet media conglomeration. Let's face it, you could search around on the internet but you won't find any concensus about up and coming bands except on those websites which are already owned by big media.

      Face it, music industries have a verticle stranglehold on distribution because they own all forms of media and communication. Media conglomeration is a HUGE issue right now but one no one will talk about, and with politicians in their pockets it's useless. Notice how much the media wants you to believe there are only two possible parties, when there should be many more than that in this country. It's bread and circuses for the masses, let's face it. You can like indie bands but don't expect them to be popular without selling out to the man, which they'll be happy to do as most full-time bands can barely afford rent.

    22. Re:Record labels are still up to their old tricks by ePhil_One · · Score: 2, Insightful
      They bribe the artist to sign away their rights with what are likely unneeded signing bonuses (unneeded in the sence that most bands would sign if a major record label said they would like to publish their songs). Most folks don't read and understand the finance contracts when they buy a car, why would anybody think a typical unsigned musician reads and understands a record contract that yesterday he would have paid you to get when a talent scout waives tens of thousands of dollars at him to sign on the dotted line. Its not like an NFL draft, where you have dozens of folks eager to sign you up. Tell that talent scout "You need to amend this part, where its gives you ownership of my soul" and you have to be prepared for him to walk away, after he finishes that good belly laugh.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisted little posts, all alike.
  2. Yay, feed the sheep! by garcia · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In the latest twist, it's the radio stations themselves that have been reaching out to the labels, offering to play songs in the form of ads, often in the early morning hours when there tends to be an excess inventory of airtime. The practice is legal as long as the station makes an on-air disclosure of the label's sponsorship -- typically with an introduction such as "And now, Avril Lavigne's Don't Tell Me, presented by Arista Records."

    To be sure, Don't Tell Me is a bona fide hit, even without spins being bought and paid for. Radio stations must play a song many thousands of times for it to crack the Billboard top 10. Nonetheless, a few hundred spins here and there can move a song up a place or two in the rankings -- and ensure that it is climbing rather than falling on the charts.


    Hmm. The only thing I am sure about is that the music industry is making the sheep believe that a song is a hit at the expense of their own customers.

    "In our business, perception is reality," he said. "The minute you're down in spins, these program directors drop the record."

    If it is played 40 times a week people are going to hear it and *believe* that it is popular. When it gets artificially vaulted to the top of the charts more people are going to *believe* that it is popular.

    Now. Where did the money come from for them to pay the radio stations to "advertise" the song? Music buyers. That's right. The wonderful conglomerates are at it again. Telling the sheep what to think is good and paying to make sure they hear it and keep buying it. Do you really want to keep supporting conglomerates that use shady tactics and your money to make some songs more popular than others?

    No? Then support freedom of music and stop the roundabout tactics, money wasting, and bullshit.

    1. Re:Yay, feed the sheep! by ooby · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If it is played 40 times a week people are going to hear it and *believe* that it is popular. When it gets artificially vaulted to the top of the charts more people are going to *believe* that it is popular. When a song is played every hour for days at a time, people tend to think the song is played out. That probably hurts the sales of the song in the long run, IMHO. If I hear the song over and over, I'm not going to buy the album and here it some more. Of course, you could easily optimize via calculas the amount of "advertising" to do to increase the charts if you knew the functional relationship between the amount of times "advertised"/unit time and the record sales/unit time.

    2. Re:Yay, feed the sheep! by tsg · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If it is played 40 times a week people are going to hear it and *believe* that it is popular. When it gets artificially vaulted to the top of the charts more people are going to *believe* that it is popular.

      Well, the sheep have to be willing to be led. People who purchase music solely because it is popular deserve what they get.

      --
      People's desire to believe they are right is much stronger than their desire to be right.
    3. Re:Yay, feed the sheep! by JadeNB · · Score: 2, Insightful
      If it is played 40 times a week people are going to hear it and *believe* that it is popular. When it gets artificially vaulted to the top of the charts more people are going to *believe* that it is popular.

      Aside from the obvious automatic `rich corporations = evil', I can't seem to get as outraged about this issue as apparently I should. I especially can't manage to get worked up about the point raised in the parent post -- what ill consequences will follow if people believe a song is more popular than it is? Maybe they'll buy crap, but if they're basing their music-buying decisions solely on what's popular (legitimately or otherwise) they would have bought crap anyway.

    4. Re:Yay, feed the sheep! by blueskies · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Well, people's buying habits don't matter too much unless your part of the under 18 crowd. Read what Crosby has to say about the music industry (the whole article is a good read):
      "When was the last time you went to the record store? Ah-hah! That's, that's how it works, buddy. It's the kids go to the record store, and the kids are -- I was going to say "stupid," but they're not. They're just ignorant. And many of them will evolve, you know, from really dumb stuff, because the dumb music is sort of like a joke that's only funny once. And you can only go to a Justin Timberlake concert once. You go a second time, you see the same thing -- maybe they got new fireworks, but Justin ain't got nothing new to say, okay?

      And, so, then you start to evolve up....But somewhere in there, you wind up loving music, and you evolve up to a level where you go after somebody who can really do it..."
  3. Does anyone still listen to radio? by Brian+Knotts · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Seriously...who listens to the rubbish that passes for (music) radio these days?

    1. Re:Does anyone still listen to radio? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I do - to the tune of indie stations put forth by the local university, as well as the classic rock stations.

    2. Re:Does anyone still listen to radio? by kfg · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Classical stations, Jazz stations, indie/college stations, shortwave stations from around the world.

      The cool shit to buy isn't at the mall. The mall caters to the average, which, by definition, isn't cool. The cool shit is out of the way and you have to go looking for it.

      Radio is still cool. You just have to look around a bit.

      If you aren't willing to look around, hey, maybe you aren't cool. :)

      KFG

    3. Re:Does anyone still listen to radio? by waynelorentz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Seriously...who listens to the rubbish that passes for (music) radio these days?

      What kind of stupid question is that? Millions of people listen to radio, or the radio companies wouldn't spend billions creating, buying, and running radio stations. Duh.

      Maybe you're overcompensating for your inferiority complex. Or maybe you don't have a local station you like. One's perception of the quality of radio depends on two things -- where you live, and what you like. You sound like some wanna-be uber geek who's more interested in pretending to have superior tastes to the masses while streaming his 1337 P2P 256K OGGS.

      I like classical and jazz music. Fortunately, I happen to live in Chicago where there is a great jazz station (not one of those "smooth jazz" jukeboxes), and a pretty good classical station, plus assorted college stations that occasionally play classical.

      I don't have the time, money, space, or inclination to buy every jazz or classical CD out there. So I listen to the radio. They're the DJs, so I let them do their jobs.

      Because the stations in whatever town you live in don't suit your exact taste doesn't mean all radio is bad. Just because something is the majority of your experience, doesn't mean it's the experience of the majority.

  4. Re:Why is this a problem by jrj102 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'd like to ammend my comment: they should be able to place ads in the form of songs, but these placement should NOT count as plays from the standpoint of rankings.

  5. Re:Why is this a problem by garcia · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'd rather listen to a 5 minute Avril Lavigne song than 5 more minutes of ads (although it is a pretty close call.

    I will venture to guess that b/c most people do not know it's an ad (or don't care) that they will not only accept the money for this and run the ad but they will also run their standard ads as well.

  6. So what's the problem? by raehl · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Lots of companies buy advertising to convince people to buy stuff they don't need. Why can't record companies do it?

  7. And this is bad how? by Rorschach1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Seems to me that playing the song on the radio, at the label's expense, would be the simplest way to promote album sales.

    Hopefully this trend will continue, leaving the stations free to play a more interesting variety, if the mass-market crap they're playing now migrates to paid ads. Why play it for free when the labels are willing to pay for it?

    1. Re:And this is bad how? by tverbeek · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Hopefully this trend will continue, leaving the stations free to play a more interesting variety, if the mass-market crap they're playing now migrates to paid ads.

      Far more likely they'd just gravitate to an entirely pay-for-play model. Especially when the people paying the station's bills (the purveyors of the aforementioned mass-market crap) start to complain about the free airtime the station is giving to their competitors.

      --
      http://alternatives.rzero.com/
  8. is your favorite band actually the band? by h0mer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Things like this just further my suspicion that more and more major label artists are merely puppets for the label. Heavily produced albums, lyrics oriented towards their target demographic, it's all so fake. Not all bands on major labels are bad, admittedly the corporate machine does make some decent tunes here and there.

    Independent music seems to have a certain stigma attached to it still, kinda like the generic brand at the grocery. But check some indie stuff out, it's music by people for people.

    --


    I'm on top of my game like I'm standin' on Xbox.
  9. Monopoly reinforcement that is what. by guidryp · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Well, it is already incredible tough for an independant to break through, now if you throw in big record money for pay for play it is that much tougher.

    You have an almost monopoly, using monopoly money to give it an advantage over smaller competitors.

    If practice like this is allowed you move in the direction of having music controlled by a few giant companies that dictate everything about how and what we listen too. Essentially we are already there and this reinforces the position.

  10. Re:Why is this a problem by generica1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Exactly... does this mean that if I had (for example) a vacuum cleaner company and I paid some studio to create a highly catchy jingle, and then paid for MASSIVE blanket advertising of my company in 30-second spots on all formats of radio across the US, that my jingle is eligible to be in the top 40 charts? It doesn't make any sense. Any paid advertising should not count as a "spin" since the radio station isn't playing what could be considered anything other than advertising, and advertisements aren't part of the assinine charting system. Seems like that logic, if enforced, would do a lot towards stifling this legalized Payola.

    --
    JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP JUMP IRRIGATE
  11. Re:The law is weird. by Moofie · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Except that the airwaves are a public resource, ceded to radio stations under certain conditions (called laws).

    So, when there's a law that says the radio stations can't accept money for playing a song, they should be punished when they break that law.

    --
    Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
  12. Re:Why is this bad? by jfengel · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The law exists because the radio airwaves are theoretically a public trust. The government has parcelled out those wavelengths on your behalf, which is why you don't get to use them for your own broadcasts.

    In return, the radio stations are expected to play what you want to hear, with a certain (regulated) amount of time allowed for playing advertisements to support the process. If they were playing the music for pay, that would be increasing the advertising time, time that they're supposed to be spending on playing stuff in the public's interest for free.

    That is the theory. Practice, of course, is somewhat different. It is certainly convenient that the FCC regulates the bandwidth; otherwise, loud and greedy broadcasters would take up every frequency, including the ones you use for Bluetooth, garage door openers, and wi-fi.

    But vast swaths of spectrum are sold well below market price because you're not allowed to bid on it. They do limit how much of the spectrum can be owned by any one company, but it turns out to be surprisingly much.

  13. Re:The law is weird. by happyfrogcow · · Score: 2, Insightful

    and if the advertisement spans several pages it says "Paid Advertisement" on every page.

    So i want a voice-over every 20 seconds saying, "This is a paid advertisement for Sh*tty Music of the Day"

    hey, that way people won't Pirate(tm) the song off the radio.

  14. Re:The law is weird. by alphaseven · · Score: 5, Insightful
    If you want to charge for airtime on your radio station, you should be able to. And if nobody wants to pay you, then tough Schitt.

    Well there's the problem of the airwaves belonging to the public. I think if a radio station wants to accept payola they don't deserve a government enforced monopoly over a part of the airwaves.

    Personally I'd like to see less FCC and some more democratic process where crap stations can be voted off the air and their radio license give to some more promising competitor.

    If it was internet radio I wouldn't care because there isn't quite the scarcity of that medium.

  15. Music/Radio industry corrupt. by gekkotron · · Score: 2, Insightful

    More news at 11, to be followed by:

    The sky is blue, an expose.
    Water found to be wet.
    Footage shows bears really do crap in the woods.

  16. Legalize Payola! by Badam · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Honestly, payola is one of those things that's going to happen, like drinking and college kids smoking pot.

    I'd rather the corruption be out in the open than live under the false belief that, gasp, good music might be favored by DJs.

    Finally, it'd put an end to all the pollyannish stories lamenting that the purity of Big Corporate Music has been betrayed.

    --

    Check out my blog: My Galaxy is Milky Way Adjacent
  17. This is bad because why ? by Jodka · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How is it unjust that promoters pay broadcasters to play particular tunes?

    According to prevailing /. ideology, we are for free speech around here, and if you don't like what is being said, then you don't have to listen to it. So if a radio station plays a tune too much, or one which you don't like, then you don't have to listen to it. Turn off the radio or change the channel. Can someone please explain how it is that involvment of promotional motives somehow negates that principle of free speech ?

    Freedom means freedom. It doesn't mean freedom only when it suits your own anti-corporate agenda. Yes, for my taste, clearchannel stations play a too small selection, much of which is overpromoted crap. However, I am not prepared to abandon my principles in opposition to that crap. Stations should be free to make programming decisions based purely on profit motive and I should be free to turn the dial if I don't like it. That's how freedom works folks. People deciding things for themselves. Freedom is not a government regulator dictating how music programming should be decided.

    --
    Ceci n'est pas une signature.
    1. Re:This is bad because why ? by msblack · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A problem with this line of reasoning is that assumes the free market should determine all outcomes. Corporoate wealth at the expense of social cause. Unfortunately, this is often a poor way to determine policy because only those with resources will benefit. The airwaves are a public resource, not the private property of Clear Channel or Viacom, et. al. As such, the airwaves should reflect minority opinions and give airtime for those without the resources to buy all the airtime.

      --
      signature pending slashdot approval
    2. Re:This is bad because why ? by nightsweat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The radio station is using public airwaves to do this. As part of the contract between the public and broadcast interests, a company is allowed to use the public airwaves in a manner deemed suitable by the people as expressed by the laws of the land and the rules of the agency regulating those airwaves. We've decided as a country that payola is bad, so it's bad.

      No one cares what you broadcast on your home stereo(well, maybe the RIAA), but when you use our airwaves, you play by our rules.

      --

      the major advances in civilization are processes which all but wreck the societies in which they occur - A.N. White
  18. Come on people by nwbvt · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Listening to you people one would think that record labels support spending money just to get their songs played on the radio. The fact of the matter is that this is a practice pushed by the big bad radio stations in order to get money, not by the big bad record labels to lose money. The labels have even launched challenges against payola. Believe it or not, they prefer to get their songs played for free.

    You people can't even get your villains straight.

    Here is a press release from Hilary Rosen herself, right off the RIAA's website: http://www.riaa.com/news/newsletter/013003.asp

    Just because they won't let you download their songs for free does not mean that they are on the opposite side of every issue (although I'm betting some of you will quickly change your positions on payola once you here where Rosen really stands on the issue).

    --
    Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
  19. Two things not to forget... by abertoll · · Score: 2, Insightful

    (1) This also means that independant artists can advertise for their music the same way, and
    (2) Radio stations can still be selective about what they're going to play.

    --
    "he drew his sword Ringil that glittered like ice... and he wounded Morgoth with seven wounds..."
  20. I don't get what's wrong with it! by PCM2 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    This seems to be just one more underhanded tactic being utilized by the record labels these days.
    Jesus -- damned if they do and damned if they don't. The number 1 complaint I hear from musicians who sign to small labels is that the label did nothing to promote their music. Here's a label that's spending $60,000 to get a song on the air. What's wrong with that? Seems like that's one label that's doing its job. Even if it ultimately does get charged back to the artist, like some other posters are complaining about, that's an album that's going to net millions of dollars of sales -- and, if you buy the Slashdot line that all music you hear on the radio is crap, I guess we have the marketing to thank for every single last one of those dollars. If I were the artist, I wouldn't call that $60,000 that's charged to me a ripoff, I'd call it a pretty good investment.

    Really, just what is so wrong with "payola," anyway? How is it different from any other form of advertising? If a radio station got no money from any source other than payola, at least then all the ads you'd hear on that station would be for products you've already proven yourself to be a member of the market for (i.e. music).

    It seems to me that, once upon a time, the Billboard charts had some sort of meaning or value and it was important to know exactly which single was where on the charts, and it was really bad if a record label "rigged the game" with some kind of payola scheme. But these days, who gives a shit? We know music is a business... why isn't it allowed to advertise?

    (And I'm saying this even though I'm one of the (apparent) Slashdot majority that wouldn't listen to most of the crap on the radio if they paid me.)

    --
    Breakfast served all day!
  21. This has been going on for years by AssFace · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This was in the news when I was in college (95-99) with Limp Bizkit and continues on with any number of bands.

    This isn't a new phenomena and isn't all that much "news" unless you were really under the impression that the radio was playing music that it likes and/or what people are calling in to hear.

    It is just one big commercial enterprise anyway that forces it down your throat, playing on the human sheep tendancy to start to like it after the 500th time whether they want to or not.
    Eventually the airplay makes the song overly annoying but they don't care since it potentially draws in new customers.

    I haven't listened to the radio in a long time - for the same reason I would fast forward through commercials in TiVo.

    --

    There are some odd things afoot now, in the Villa Straylight.
  22. Re:OK, so let's get Billboard's attention by Alsee · · Score: 2, Insightful

    we do not condone special interests buying legislation

    You're funny! :D

    -

    --
    - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  23. Why is a CD $16 and a DVD can be $7? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Why is it that a MOVIE, with a much bigger budget, more staff, more expenditures can be sold on DVD for as low as $7 canadian yet I can't find any music CDs for under $10-$12 canadian?? Does this make sense? Does it cost more to produce an album of 11 music tracks, with 5 musicians a couple producers and sound engineers, than it does an entire big budget hollywood film????!

  24. Lemmie Get this Right by CamMac · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Ok, to make sure I got this right

    A) Label pays radio station to play song
    B) Radio station plays several less ads to play song
    C) Because Song was played during ad time, Radio Station doesn't play it during regular Music time
    D) Ignorant Masses (ie, Me) hear More music, Less ads, and are generally happy.

    Ya know, I might be stupid, but I'll never publically condon someone bussiness practices if they make my life and life in general better.

    --Cam

    --
    All jocks think about is sports. All nerds think about is sex.
  25. Re:Why is Payola BAD(tm)????? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    No, "idiocy" is failing to grasp the simple fact that the airwaves are a public resource that is being abused by Greedy Corporate Bastards(TM).

  26. Re:Of Course by king-manic · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And you'll make amazing music no one will ever hear.

    A distributor isnt' about recording, it's about promoting and "distibuting".

    --
    "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
  27. Success isn't a right. by copponex · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you don't want to tour, and you don't want to promote your own band, you pay very dearly to have someone else do it, because it's a major gamble. I listen to local groups and smaller labels because they believe in their own craft enough to produce good work _and_ promote it.

    You don't deserve anything because you're in a band, even if your sound is earth-shatteringly brilliant. Work for it or stop playing gigs. Pretty damn simple.

  28. Learn to sing by jhines0042 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If you are tired of the RIAA controlling what you listen to, then learn how to sing.

    I get a lot more enjoyment out of listening to my friends sing (and singing with them) old songs, sad songs, happy songs, silly song, whatever, than out of my music CDs.

    Its live, its free, its even good sometimes.

    So drink a few beers, gather round a camp fire, close your eyes and sing. Or play a guitar, learn to drum, pick up a kazoo, banjo, or tamborine, or even how to clap in time.

    We have become a world that doesn't know how to entertain ourselves. If it isn't shiny, plastic, flashing, miniature, or if our neighbors (you know, those people on TV) don't have it then we don't want it.

    --
    42 - So long and thanks for all the fish.
  29. Re:Why is this bad? by AB3A · · Score: 2, Insightful
    The law exists because the radio airwaves are theoretically a public trust. The government has parcelled out those wavelengths on your behalf, which is why you don't get to use them for your own broadcasts.

    Whoa! You're mixing an awful lot of stuff in the same pot here.

    First, according to current policy at the FCC, the airwaves are NOT a public trust. They're more like real-estate zoned for business.

    Second, the FCC zones various bands and assigns licenses so that listeners can know where to "go" to hear what they're seeking. They don't regulate content. They are a zoning board of the airwaves.

    Here's the rub: If a few small groups end up controlling access to most of the available channels in an area of the US, that's their investment. It's hardly any different than a city zoning for newspaper printing and allowing only enough such slots that one or two publishers is pretty much all that anyone can expect to find.

    Now, regarding the new payola: Well, if you put your name on it, it's no different than someone placing an ad designed to look just like regular news print on one whole page of the newspaper. The key is that people understand that it is not the newspaper publisher, but a customer who is writing this stuff.

    I happen to take a very dim view of most broadcasters. NPR is innovative, but they still seek listeners just like everyone else.

    The problem is that radio is such a big business that everyone is trying to be everything to all listeners. It doesn't fly. Real creativity is not something that most people appreciate much. Real creativity will annoy most people but enthrall a few.

    However, as a mass media source, radio can't afford to broadcast stuff like that. Any attempt to please everyone all the time is likely to please nobody most of the time.

    And now you know why radio sucks.
    --
    Nearly fifty percent of all graduates come from the bottom half of the class!
  30. NPR is part of the problem. by KevinDumpsCore · · Score: 3, Insightful

    > radio stations such as NPR are still great sources for news

    NPR lobbied against Low Power FM radio stations. This limits competition and supports the status quo of radio consolidation (Their brother PBS network acknowledges radio consolidation as a problem, how ironic!). Just something to remember when they start one of their pledge drives.

  31. Re:Obligatory UHF quote by Altus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    quote:
    The women are trying so hard to embellish that they're totally off-key

    If I hear another warbaling wonder I think I will puke... I am so sick of this recent trend of female vocalists to make their voices warble, taking them way the fuck off key and making them hard to listen to... all just to mask the fact that their voices are bland and borring...

    get someone with some friggin pipes, not these pathetic wannabes.

    --

    "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

  32. Payola ?!?! by Archfeld · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why bother, clear channel found a legal way around it. Buy the radio stations, issue the top ten list based on AIRTIME, not sales, issue play lists to your radio stations, then sit back touting the TOP 10 list that you created along with verifiable but meaningless measurements. The masses of Sheeple with flock to the record stores to consume.... Venal, Greedy, and short-sighted but still technically legal :(

    --
    errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
  33. Re:Obligatory UHF quote by Frizzle+Fry · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I've heard this before and it is ridiculous. The throwaway pop music of the fifties (for example) was as bad as the throwaway pop music of today. The problem is that we don't remember the bad stuff from the past because it gets forgotten, whereas the bad music of today is right there in front of you.

    In addition, I get annoyed by people who compare the music of "the 70s" (for example) to the music of "today" and are upset that the best stuff they could come up with from an entire decade is better than the best stuff they can come up with from the last six months. Honestly, I don't know how this could ever seem like a fair comparison.

    --
    I'd rather be lucky than good.
  34. OPEC? by tepples · · Score: 2, Insightful

    the RIAA does not own any labels. They are a trade group, not a record company.

    The OPEC does not own any refineries. It is a trade group, not a refinery.

    Yet OPEC and RIAA still manage to dictate terms in their respective industries.

  35. New? They were doing it in '98. by raindog2 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Only then it was Limp Bizkit. And it's not like the story got buried... here's a CNN article from 1998 referencing the practice:

    http://edition.cnn.com/SHOWBIZ/Music/9807/07/payol a/

    I've heard other songs played this way: framed as a commercial, with a different voice than the DJ announcing the band, track, and "presented by Rottenlabel" or something like that over the beginning and end of the song. I wouldn't call it common, but I've definitely heard it a few times and it's never been Limp Bizkit nor Avril Lavigne.

    Can't say I really like it, but it wouldn't surprise me if the practice gets still more commonplace.