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Casio's Credit Card Watch
Takuryu writes "Casio, working with Japanese credit card company, JCB, has developed a combination credit card wristwatch. Workers at the main JCB office wear the RFID tagged watches and use them for security access at the office, as well as for paying for lunch in the cafeteria. I wonder what percentage of employees they have tagged?"
We all know what's going to be said. The watch is easily stolen. Has been for years and years. That's what makes it so appealing to criminals. This isn't going to catch on and for good reason. The security on these devices sounds like nothing at all.
-Dizzle
"I most likely AM so interested in myself."
I'd get a job there just to get the watch; it's kinda o.k.-looking.
Are the watches protected from simply scanning everyones as they walk past and collecting thousands of credit card numbers? Or someone could set up a series of stations throughout a mall that charge small innocuous looking charges to cars from "shell" corporations and do like they did in Office Space.
As a retirement watch.
Who will the be the first to buy a watch with a watch I wonder?
I mean, how hard is it to just swipe a card? Are they that insecure about their appearance that they don't want to wear security ID badges around their necks? Using RFID for security badges and charge cards seems to me like a solution in search of a problem...
And does this means they're going to steal it, or just cram it into that narrow slot in the reader?
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
How are they going to check the signature? This doesn't seem too secure.
Finally a great way for the cafeteria staff to calculate lunch order statistics!
-
I find it ironic that, in my opinion, the main reason this has a good chance of catching on is that it looks really good.
For muggers.
Instead of "Give me your money and your watch!" they'll be able to just say "Give me your watch!" With the time the save, they'll be able to rob 50% more people.
This is a good concept on the surface. I know I hate having to wear my goofy security badge to gain access to our offices.
One problem I see is privacy. I have always thought that having to key in and out of work insures security but also tracks your movements. My security badge has to be really close to the reader to register, RFID tags have more range right? So what is to stop an employer from tracking your every move. I know it sounds paranoid but some companies are really strict with breaks and things.
The other problem I see is wearability and security.
Security because watches are easily lost, stolen, left behind... Since there is no picture on the watch to verify the person, presumably anyone can use anyone else's.
Wearability because as a female, I own at least 3 watches to suit my moods and clothing. With everyone having the same watch, we are one step closer to uniformity. This squelches uniqueness and creativity.
Karma, We don't need no stinkin' karma!
Also, I don't see how the credit card watch can serve as "identification points" as a normal credit card does.
So if your boss calls you over for a second to talk to him in the lunch room, it'll probably be because he's trying to get a free meal off of your proximity to the cashier.
When this idea is suggested for computer password replacements I always think of my sleazy coworkers from four jobs ago who would have someone distract me near my cubicle ("Can you dig that pen out from behind the desk? It's my favorite!") while someone else uses my logged in computer.
Grrr...
"I wonder what percentage of employees they have tagged?
100%.
Being able to hide your credit anywhere has an appeal. Sure, a mugger might ask for your cheap watch, but would they bother with your ink pen? Kinda cool to be able to give one your wallet without fear. Of course, in my case, the mugger will know which object has my credit. It will be the one wrapped in tin foil.
RFIDs creep me out. Someone being able to identify me by a device in my shoes, in my car's tires, in my shirt? It's weird and the nasty part is that no one I care about will have the ability, just big dumb companies that want to milk me. Vending machines that can take my money while I walk by are more bothersome still. I have a feeling that foil liners will become very fashionable soon, but it won't really work.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Ok, I'm not an expert but if your watch is emitting your credit card information.... how can that be secure?
Click for offensive t-sh
does this mean i can use my Roleks watch with my Viza credit card account?
Marge, get me your address book, 4 beers, and my conversation hat.
...the engineers are then released back into the wild so that scientists can study their movements. One day, it may lead to the discovery of just how Casio is surviving in the wild this day in age.
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
I'm holding out for the JCB creditcard hand and forehead.
I wonder what percentage of employees they have tagged?
And I wonder what percentage of employees they've tracked going into the bathroom or a broom closet together. Bow chica bow bow!
I'm going to patent the RFID equivalent of "one click shopping" . A system of readers will record all items on a customer, so that a profile can be generated and saved. The customer's means of payment will also be stored in the profile so that the customer can purchase anything in my store, or at a computer monitor without any special credit card on their person. Theives and legitimate companies who use this method to vend must call me "Exalted Inventor" and pay me a portion of the proceeds. Advertisers who abuse this system, as grocery stores do now, to push brands that I never buy will be forced to bathe in honey and dance naked on fire ant mounds. Vendors dumb enough to purchase said advertising will be separated from their money and require no further punishment. They are invited to the mound dance.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
[Waving hand at RFID reader adjacent to cash register]
Me: You will give me french fries
Clerk: Yes, I will give you french fries...
Do you or your partner snore? - Visit www.snoring.com.au
I'm just waiting for the /. headling "Employees get RFID implants". It will happen. And all the slashbots will talk about how good it is and write off anybody with Big Brother concerns as paranoid tinfoil hat wearers.
This world is sickening me. How long till people wake the fuck up. Probably never.
The article mentions one of the more popular timepieces for Japanese kids is "NTT Docomo" (their mobile phone).
I haven't worn a watch since I last sat an exam. between my computer when I'm at my desk or PDA, phone and until recently pager when I'm not (all banned from aforesaid exam room), I always know what the time is. Indeed most of the time I don't really need to know what the time it is as my PDA will beep when I need to be somewhere. The rest of the time, who cares?
Unless vendors can integrate existing devices into a wristwatch, I suspect its days might be numbered. Even this possibility seems unlikely as the screens and data-entry possibilities for wristwatches are somewhat limited.
Then again... They said we'd be in the paperless office by now. I don't see the pencil on the way out.
Do you or your partner snore? - Visit www.snoring.com.au
When I was a teenager one of my good friends was a Christian fundamentalist. (I'm NOT) His high school would suspend anyone who purchased a pager (this was just before cell phones were ubiquitous). Their reasoning wasn't that it disrupted class or was a drug dealer thing (sheesh), but that it was the mark of the Devil. You know 666. The theory was that beepers were just the first stage in a series of moves by the DEVIL HIMSELF to accustom us to being tagged, and that eventually we would all be given the mark of the devil.
Now I'm not about to start following his bizarre religious practices (especially since they lead him to being institutionalized), but you gotta give the wing nut some credit. We all started carrying pagers, cell phones, then GPS, and now people aren't even thinking twice when they are asked to stick a radio transceiver on their person (or in it!).
It's like cooking a frog. Stick it in while the pan is hot and he'll just jump out. But if you turn up the heat slowly he never knows it till it's too late.
I would rather be ashes than dust!
Honey, can I borrow your watch? I need to do some shopping!
if (!sig) { printf("Signature Unavailable\n"); }
And then managers can just plug it all into a roller coaster tycoon type of live simulation, and fire people by tossing them into the water :)
The only thing that's talked more about then WiFi is how insecure RFid tags are. Go have a look, you'll see plenty of people commenting on how secure and insecure it is.
I'd like to see something like this where it was inactive by default, so that you HAD to turn it on for it to be visible to the sensors. All I'm asking for is a button, rather than constant on. I have no interest in having a little tag telling anything that asks who I am, and leaving footprints behind me.
This kinda makes me feel ashamed to admit, but I've actually thought of whipping up a wallet or portfolio that would block/disrupt anything such as RF, active broadcast, etc. It's feeling like we're getting to the point where most of the things we carry(ID, licenses, credit cards, money) are going to have the ability to give out more information than I'm comfortable with.
I'm sure going to modify the next briefcase I buy with some goodies. Forget just lead, foil and copper lined, it's time for some active interference.
to the days when not everyone had a credit card? I abhore the concept of credit cards as they encourage people to buy things they don't have the money for. For this reason I don't like taking out loans, and if I could live life without doing so I would (unfortunately if you want to own your house it is impossible for the average person to achieve this without a loan). There are two ways to spend money: 1. Save it up and then spend it 2. Borrow then spend then repay it I prefer to do the first thing myself. After all, you're eventually going to have to pay for the thing (and possibly with interest) so why not do without for a time until you can afford it. But new technology is only favouring the second payment option with credit cards getting all this new fandangled tech, but bank cards aren't getting anything. Seems strange to me.
Granted Speedpass isn't accepted everywhere by any means but gas and nowadays many McDonalds and a few supermarkets (in certain areas.)
The standard unit is small enough to just ditch the keychain and tuck the bead in my wallet; in fact with a bit of crazy glue I'm sure I could turn anything into a credit card of sorts. Since Mobil gives them away free (no fees, just a draw to their places) the tech must be cheap as hell- little more than an inductor/antenna and a simple IC with a serial number... it's basically less circuitry than a typical disposable camera, and far less than a digital watch.
If Casio need a goog worker they should check out Andy Glew. Phew! What merits, well received from a benevolent Google cache here
Andy Glew
2416 Fairoak Court
San Jose, California, 97125, USA
Home: 408-978-5809
Email
glew@ieee.org glew@acm.org
Career Goals
Get onto the Ubiquitous/Pervasive/Portable/Wearable/PDA bandwagon!
I am more and more persuaded that the desktop PC is becoming obsolete (although it may be a useful cash cow), and that computing will become ubiquitous: people will carry their personal computing devices with them at all times, interfacing to ubiquitous I/O devices.
I want to get involved! Ways that I could contribute:
Develop high performance low-power microprocessors for use in mobile (PDA & wearable) form factors.
Many people believe that advanced microarchitecture and low power are mutually exclusive. I do not! Rather, I believe that advanced microarchitectures will be essential for obtaining high performance in low power microprocessors.
To help build the first low-power microprocessor that applies leading edge microarchitecture techniques (such as dynamic execution, out-of-order, implicit multithreading, or static dataflow)
Develop advanced microarchitectures for low power
Charge recovery logic
User interface software development for pen based applications for large wall-mounted blackboard I/O devices. Hardware prototyping as necessary (although it's the software that matters most)
System software development: disconnectable filesystems, databases, version control, personal information management (PIMs).
Miscellaneous
Challenging hardware/software development.
To design the next generation of high-performance microprocessor, going beyond out-of-order dynamic execution and instruction level parallelism towards meso-scale parallelism.
To apply the technical management concepts that can create a "Breakthrough System" for creative work like Computer Architecture; to recreate Thomas Edison's "Invention Factory" in the modern world.
To apply agile programming methodologies like eXtreme Programming to Computer Architecture (including pairing & unit testing) in order to develop microprocessors better, quicker, and with less project risk.
Skills
Performance Tuning and Analysis
Both hardware and software.
I can make anything run faster!
Hardware
High-performance computer architecture, especially out-of-order microarchitectures.
Parallel processors
Synchronization
Cache and Bus Protocols
Memory Consistency Models
Super-scalar Processors
Behavioural and structural modelling in RTLs (register transfer languages) such as iHDL (Intel Hardware Description Language).
Computer arithmetic, particularly redundant forms to increase performance.
Systems software issues, especially OS and Virtual Machines.
Software
OS: UNIX System V and BSD 4.3 kernel. Some NT, LINUX, + FreeBSD kernel. Device drivers.
Programming Languages: C, C++, LISP, Perl used regularly. Familiar with many others.
Assembly Languages: 680x0, 88K, 80x86, Gould PN and NP, MIPS R2000, PowerPC, Alpha.
Environments: super-micro to mini-super.
Databases: author of Perl-SQL
User Interface: natural datatypes: handwriting, speech, video
Timeline: Education and Employment
I have interleaved and overlapped education and employment throughout my career:
July 2002-date: Computer Architect, AMD.
January 1991-June 2002: Computer Architect, Intel.
August 1996-June 2000: Graduate Student, University of Wisconsin:
did not complete Ph.D. (CS).
September 1987 - January 1991: MS (EE), University of Illinois.
December 1985-November 1989: UNIX kernel programmer,
OS developer, Performance Analyst. Gould CS
You get those even here in India
Check the monstrous camera watch phone
To being watched :)
----- One learns to itch where one can scratch.
It uses an embedded IC chip FeliCa by Sony, according to the actual article.
Imagine the day when RFID tags are so common every coke bottle has one. Now cut them off and pack, say, 1000 or more int a match box. Carry them with you at all times. A reader sends a request and gets 1000 replies. 1000 not enough? Get 10.000. I wonder how many replies the reader would be able to handle simultaneously and how efficiently the chips could jam each other.
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
If your petrol station reads a unique ID that *isn't * your credit card number off the card, and hands it off to the bank, it's far easier to check that card 0144829 (belonging to Patrick Martin) was scanned by reader 2841 (pump 4) at retailer 22019 (Esso Canniesburn Road, G61 ???). Now, since the credit authorisation bureau know that Esso are allowed to accept your card, that's great, it works. If J Random Crook gets hold of the number he would also have to spoof the reader and store number. So, we apply a little bit of public-key encryption, and it makes it pretty much impossible.
This is where customer profiling (yes, I know the redneck gun nut privacy freak survivalists will howl and gibber) comes in handy. You *always* get petrol from that petrol station, filling up every Friday when you get paid. So, since that particular transaction always takes place with about 40 quid's worth of petrol, at around 7am on a Friday morning, at that store, then it isn't "interesting".
Then you can bring the (can't be arsed making it a link, find the article yourself) RFID number plates in. So, the credit authorisation system is unfazed by you filling up an 02-reg Fiat Seicento once a week. One particular week your card is used much later, about 0830, and instead of 40 quid's worth of unleaded you put about 60 quid's worth of 98-octane into an F-registered Citroen CX. Eep! That's interesting. It will let you do it just the same, but if it turns out that your card/watch/whatever had been stolen, you would be able to see any "out of character" transactions highlighted on your bill. In this case, of course, your car didn't start so you've borrowed someone else's, and returned it with the tank full 'cos you're a kind and thoughtful person.
Now, this kind of logging would be excessive and possibly intrusive. But - if you could selectively enable what stores are allowed to log your transactions (supermarkets and petrol stations would be a good bet), as well as set "warning" flags ("Hang about, I certainly *don't* want to buy 200 quid's worth of cheap and nasty gold jewellery from Half Price Jewellers in $rough_part_of_town!") that would request additional checks before authorising the payment.
Just a thought.
consult with/trust in yOUR creators..... good advise since/until forever.
tell 'em robbIE?
I had the idea awhile ago that they should put badges into watches (should've patented it) Why? So they could put the id readers into the door knob, and my lazy ass wouldn't have to scan a badge and turn the knob.
Laziness breeds Innovation
It would also appear that Casio are very big on conveniently ignoring the fact that this isn't anything new. The Hong Kong public transport system has been running on an RFID card called 'Octopus' for several years now. I've used it lots of times, and it works really really well. The Octopus system used a credit-card sized card with an embedded RFID chip by default, but there are also wristwatches and wear-around-your-neck-on-a-lanyard-watches that perform the same function.
You can pay for bus and train (MTR) trips using the Octopus card, make purchases at 7-Eleven, and top up the card at railway stations and 7-Elevens, and make purchases from an increasing array of other stores, vending machines, parking, ferries, cabs, supermarkets, even school tuck shops!!!. The system works really really well - despite the potential privacy issues, I'm a BIG fan of HK's Octopus.
The system is, by default, largely anonymous. There's nothing to stop them putting a camera near a reader I guess, but I've never been asked to prove who I am when purchasing an Octopus card. The company acknowledges customer fears in respect of anonimity in various ways, they offer a 'personalised' octopus card with your photo on it if you want it, but there doesn't seem to be any pressure to adopt the personalised version.
Clearly, it would be trivial to extend the Octopus system to access control. In fact, it wouldn't actually require any 'extension' of the system, just get your own RFID readers that speak the same frequencies and 'language' as Octopus uses (RFID is still very 'unstandardised', there's a lot of 'standards' to choose from), and make them respond appropriately to the unique IDs in the Octopus cards/watches you happen to own.
I'm from Australia. A friend of mine is sending me my first Octopus watch next week. I already have a handfull of Octopus *cards* here to play with. Where can I get the RFID kit I wonder!
I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
I worked for a firm that used Javacards to do a simliar thing. You set a debit limit via the intranet, and your food, gym, purchases and the car valet were all taken from your wages each time you swiped.
It came off gross too, for great tax efficiency, plus no banking details were ever transmitted.
Administrators could call the lift (elevator) when they swiped in to work in the morning
Super Awesome Broadband
That's why when you go fishing frogs (god, that brings back memories) you kill the frog by smashing its skull on the tip of your boot, cut the legs off and throw the other half back in the water.
I hear you say... How cruel! Remember where frogs live? Swamps! Swamps are privileged habitats for a shitloads of birds. If you throw your frog far enough (some birds are very wary of Men), watch for that crane or stork just begging to eat it.
So you get a good day out full of fresh air, see some beautiful creatures and frog's legs actually taste pretty nice too.
Then again, I eat bosintang when i'm in Korea... And I actually like it :-)
So the only new spin on this is that unlike at VNC when they were working on this, that the form factor is a wrist watch instead of a RFID card carried somewhere on your body.
I remember reading about what the developers were trying to do with VNC - walk into an empty office, RFID reader on the computer spawns up your working desktop on the computer in the room. Also, they had an internal webpage that tracked everyone's movements in the office (more like, which rooms people were in...).
So, if you don't like RFID stuff, don't be a hypocrite and use VNC at the same time...
Implementing an existing, working technology into a "new" formfactor, like this RFID card-in-a-wristwatch isn't really a lot of innovation, especially if there is no other value-add.
Now, reducing an espresso machine to a wristwatch formfactor, THAT could be seen as an innovation...
If you take a look at Timex you will see the new line of speedpass enabled watches. This means that when I mug someone I can just get their watches - (which gives me the credit card and spedpass for US gas stations!!!)
Rock On!!
comment directly in my journal
you are not allowed to pump your own gas in jersey. so you'll have to remove your watch and give it to the attendant every time.
...would be a shame to have it cut up if you didn't pay your bill.
branding? Mark your herds of workers to find out what they're eating; maybe track them too.
Getting closer and closer. I am not a religious man, but I know the mark of the beast when I see it . I anticipate the day when someone gets this great idea to put RFID chips under the skin. With such a thing, and all of your money in a checking account, you would never need credit cards or cash, ever again. You would never be robbed, cause you would have no wallet or cash.
You would just wave your arm to buy stuff. How convenient!
Credit cards used to expire in 5 years. Now all of mine expire in 2 years. Whatever. 5 years, 2 years, that's still longer than my last Casio watch lasted. I don't think I'm particulary harsh on watches, especially because there are others I've had for more than 10 years. I just not sure I want my credit card number blinking 0000 0000 0000 0000 000 after 6 months.
In a related story, the IRS has recently ruled that the cost of Windows upgrades can NOT be deducted as a gambling loss.
This is Slashdot. If you're going for funny it's ... my r0l3x watch with my v15a credit card ...
now you try. =)
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
This watch I got here was first purchased by your great-granddaddy. It
was bought during the First World War in a little general store in
Knoxville, Tennessee. It was bought by private Doughboy Ernie Coolidge
the day he set sail for Paris. It was your great- granddaddy's war
watch, made by the first company to ever make wrist watches. You see,
up until then, people just carried pocket watches. Your great-granddaddy
wore that watch every day he was in the war. Then when he had done his
duty, he went home to your great- grandmother, took the watch off his
wrist and put it in an ol' coffee can. And in that can it stayed 'til
your grandfather Dane Coolidge was called upon by his country to go
overseas and fight the Germans once again. This time they called it
World War Two. Your great-granddaddy gave it to your granddad for good
luck. Unfortunately, Dane's luck wasn't as good as his old man's. Your
granddad was a Marine and he was killed with all the other Marines at
the battle of Wake Island. Your granddad was facing death and he knew
it. None of those boys had any illusions about ever leavin' that island
alive. So three days before the Japanese took the island, your 22-year
old grandfather asked a gunner on an Air Force transport named Winocki,
a man he had never met before in his life, to deliver to his infant son,
who he had never seen in the flesh, his gold watch. Three days later,
your grandfather was dead. But Winocki kept his word. After the war was
over, he paid a visit to your grandmother, delivering to your infant
father, his Dad's gold watch. This watch. This watch was on your
Daddy's wrist when he was shot down over Hanoi. He was captured and put
in a Vietnamese prison camp. Now he knew if the gooks ever saw the
watch it's be confiscated. The way your Daddy looked at it, that watch
was your birthright. And he'd be damned if and slopeheads were gonna
put their greasy yella hands on his boy's birthright. So he hid it in
the one place he knew he could hide somethin'. His ass. Five long
years, he wore this watch up his ass. Then when he died of disentary,
he gave me the watch. I hid with uncomfortable hunk of metal up my ass
for two years. Then, after seven years, I was sent home to my family.
And now, little man, I give the watch to you.
It's a lot harder to lift a pocketwatch off someone walking down the road than it is to lift someone's wallet out of their back pocket. It takes much more sill, and thus the number of crooks you run into who could get away with it would be smaller.
Also, it would be relatively easy to include on the back of the watch a small thermal sensor. When you put the watch on in the morning, it asks for your PIN to activate the RFID credit card. Then, if the watches thermal sensor ever detects that it is off the skin for more than 3 or 4 seconds, disable the credit card until the PIN is again entered.
Thermal sensors are cheap and small. This would give you quite reasonable security, no less than that of an ATM card at least, and much more convince.
I read several comments about how most cashiers don't even check the signatures.
I always get a big laugh when one of them does check the signature. Why would management think that a cashier that can't make change if the cash register is down is suddenly a signature expert when someone uses a credit card?
Several years ago one of the news magazine shows on TV did a story where they took some of those credit cards with the people's pictures on them and gave them to staffers and sent them into stores in New York. If I recall correctly non of them had any problems using the credit cards, even the Asian lady using one with the picture of an African American man on the front of the card.
I figured this was one of those conspiracies that the big corporations (in this case the credit card industry and big companies) did not want you to know about. The fact that either it is impossible to create a truly secure system either due to cost or technical issues, or that the credit card companies have calculated that it is not worth the cost to do so and that the general public has been conditioned to pay high interest fees which cover all the losses incured by credit card theft. As such the credit card companies encourage poor credit card handling and poor use of cards by the consumer (example: the get a card here to repair your poor credit scams).
And the debit card scam is even worse! Why the heck would I want something that can suck my hard earned money directly out of my check account? Or is this just another way to get those poor souls that can't get a regular credit card? When you lose a debit card the panic has to be 100 times worse. I don't think many banks will restore your money in that case, unlike a credit card which is the credit cards money not yours.
anyone remember that? Whatever happened to the Java Ring and why haven't firms adopted it yet?
It could open security doors, etc.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
Credit card companies could say "Y'know for an extra 87p per month we can check purchases against your purchasing history, so that if eeeevil haxx0rs steal your credit card number and use it to by child porn on tha Intarweb we can catch them" - and people will cheerfully buy it. The customer has an illusion of security, and the credit card company increases its profits. Everyone's a winner.