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Yet Another Degrading DVD
Aire Libre writes "Efforts to eliminate price competition from cheap DVD rentals and used DVD sales appear to be speeding up. Flexplay Technology's EZ-D self-destructing DVD, which goes dark in a lagardly 48 hours, has been surpassed by a French DVD-D that goes dark in a speedy eight hours. Because neither technology has anything to do with piracy, they both appear marketed at movie studios that might wish to drive up the price of DVD rentals. Presumably, once throw-away DVDs catch on, the studios can for the first time prevent price competition between rental and sales of DVDs by charging more for a regular DVD (rentable and re-saleable) and having the retail sales copies disappear 8 hours after opening so that no one can re-sell them, lend them, rent them or give them to charity. This will also suppress competition from rentals and used copies against currently uncompetitive online movie downloads."
It would be interesting to see if they had a return policy and the DVD could be reused or recycled. Like a return on a coke bottle or something
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Everyone will have to do this, or else people will just stop buying DVDs from people X. Sure they might miss out on some movies, but people would rather that then not being able to own a DVD.
Also, the distributors who use these DVDs better make sure they don't distribute the same movie in VHS format, or else people will just go back to that. How this helps the distributors I'll be fucked if I know (it is possible to pirate videos, just before DVD became popular they were experimenting in copy-protection, but there would have been work-arounds).
I really don't get the point to this, this will only increase piracy. People like to own stuff they buy. If you make them think they don't own it, they won't buy it if there is an alternative (even an illegal one) available.
8 Hours?!? WTF is that. That's hardly enough time to watch some movies. What with all the comentary from this director, and that actor, and rewatching it again with the in-movie game.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
People just don't want to buy something that becomes worthless as a matter of course, and they probably never will. As far as I'm concerned, these products are just interesting exercises in chemical engineering, and nothing more.
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me doesn't live for do [DEPRECATED]
I seriously doubt that any company will ever put these DVD's to use in the general consumer market - its just too risky! Aside from the potential to actually INCREASE piracy as opposed to decrease it, think of the monumental bad press that they would get, not only from those of us "in-the-know" about such things, but the casual consumer as well. This is to say nothing about consumers' rights groups and environmentalists.
If someone *were* to take a gamble on these, I bet the geeks in the world could find some kind of solution to either remove the darkness or penetrate it pretty quick. Failing that, its still readable (and thus, ripable) in the first 8 hours anyways, which once more leads back to the piracy-increase arguement.
(On the subject of penetrating the darkness, if someone were to just turn down the potentiometer on the DVD drive's laser [as is sometimes done in XBox Thompson DVD drives to help them perform to spec], do you think that would be enough to "punch through" as it were, and still allow enough light to escape upon reflection to allow reading after the blackout has set in?)
There is no mod option "-1: Disagree" for a reason. "Overrated" is not an acceptable substitute. Post something instead.
The new disposable DVD will cost more to manufacture and they will charge less for it at the retail point. Doesn't this just beg the question of their ethics and business practices?
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how about someone designs a dvd player which floods the disc with nitrogen while playing?
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So does this mean that the A/V quality of the film will degrade as I watch it? If this thing is slowly going dark over 8 hours after I open it and the movie is say 3 -> 4 hours long, will I notice a loss in quality as the film progresses?
I imagine that Hi-Fi DVD players will not like these discs one bit...
Everyone here will be gibbering about how much this sucks for rental movies and blah blah blah! WHO CARES!
This is an immensley kickass way of protecting ultra sensitive data. Especially for espionage situations. Operative gets caught with a DVD of sensitive files or somesuch? Damn sorry you can't decrypt 4gb 1024 bit PGP in under 8 hours!
Movie studios could probably cut down on staff stealing promo editions and leaking them onto the net before they are released. I'm not saying they could eliminate it, but it would sure as hell cut down on it!
Rock on, I say.
--
The last digit of pi is four.
Yes, the costs of collecting it, transporting it, sorting it, and breaking it down, far exceed the cost of creating fresh glass.
In addition... On average, a city pays $50/ton to throw away garbage.... and $150+/ton to recycle it.
Go on the site, and you will see that those DVD-D are recyclable. I do not agree with this but it is still better than free CDs given away by ISPs... There should be a kind of partial refund if you take the DVD-D back. Moreover, the fact that the DVD can be read during 8 hours after oppening suggest that there is a kind of oxydation that occures on the disc, and this can be avoided using your dvd player in the appropriate environment... That sounds a bit tricky, but can be easily done.
So you're saying that glass, which can simply be remelted and recast, is more expensive than obtaining sillica, dyeing, melting, and casting it?
That's exactly right. Even worse, most recycled products that are generated to satisfy 'green' consumer demand use more energy to produce than normal products and so are worse for the environment.
The goddamned hippies are ruining the planet.
The ideal mechanism for this kind of thing would be a DVD-RW where the recording substrate returned to its initial state over time. The disk could then be returned and a new movie burned to it. I'm still not entirely sure what the point would be though. If it's a digital movie then a bitwise copy could simply be created and stored on a more permanent medium.
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They'll be able to sell 48 hour self destruct DVD's in the regular retail chain. Why do you need Blockbuster and all it's overhead dealing with returns, chasing late fees, stock management, etc.
Just sell 'em at retail for a couple of bucks, and the purchaser get's 48 hours of viewing once they crack open the package or first play it. No returns, no lost DVD's, no damaged DVD's
I'm not sure of the reasons behind that, but what if its due to the inefficiencies of the process, and the fact that recyclable goods are still a somewhat "niche" product?
If everything was recyclable and recycled, the costs of such a thing would come down, and the process would become more efficient. It would have to.
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Ever since I got a TiVo, I don't rent movies from blockbuster anymore. Why? Because Pay Per View is just too convenient with a TiVo. If I want to watch a PPV movie, I simply set up a recording of it. I can watch it as it happens or watch it later... or watch it much later - as long as I want to save the recording.
/. crowd to universally deride them. Isn't that like me telling you how you should spend your own money?
Which means that I pretty much NEVER rent from the video store anymore. PPV usually costs a little bit less than a video rental, I don't have to return anything, and I can keep it as long as I want. Other than the fact that the concept is really kind of insulting, decaying DVDs are irrelevant to me.
I suspect that they're going to be irrelevant to most people, too, which means that there's going to be almost no market for them. But if there is a market for them, who am I to say how other people spend their money? These things are only going to take off if there's a demand. If there isn't demand, they'll die. If there is demand, they'll sell. If they sell, I think it's a bit presumptuous of the
Key to financial independence: Spend less than you earn. Save and invest the difference. Do it for a long time.
Surly the market is mail order rental, you simple order the films you want online and get mailed the disposable disks, none of the hassle and cost of mailing them back. The added bonus is you can order a few for a rainy day and watch them when you want, all be it only once. This may not be a big market but it is there, the Internet has certainly made me far too lazy to buy/rent anything which would involve actually going to a shop. If you want complain about the waste of plastic why and DVD boxes circular or at least square?
You've just given two examples where the replacement was more convenient.
Dealing with bottles of ink makes people unhappy. Handling straight razor blades, the same.
You've also ignored the way that most cartridge razors work. They're different. THey have multiple blades, frequently, mounted on spring mechanisms. They do lots of stuff that you couldn't do with a straight blade.
A 48 hour DVD instead of returning a DVD may take off. When a movie is insanely popular just after it comes out at the rental stores, they could have stacks of these cheap DVDs sitting around. Much easier than having enough stock of reusable DVDs.
yeah, but whatever they do it will take that much more energy to accomplish than not doing this in the first place.
I hate to say it, but DIV-X's software solution to the same end that they are going for here makes a lot more sense environmentally. I'd be surprised if a Div-X-ish hardware time bomb wasn't integrated into the next round of the DVD spec.
Most recycling programs for things like this are just lip service to make people feel less bad about supporting a very wasteful technology. Polycarbonate (what most of a DVD is made of) is currently a low-margin material. It can be "down-cycled" into products that do not require optical properties like a DVD does, but recycling for primary re-use is not economical.
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Porn: if you're the average embarassed male, it's harder to return porn than to rent it in the first place.
Point of sale rentals: You can "rent" the movie without the hassle of returning it. It means rentals can be available in far more places.
Recycling: yes, they do recycle into usable materials.
This isn't supposed to alter the way the world watches movies, it's supposed to make it a lot better for some manufacturers and some consumers, some of the time. That's still a big market.
I don't believe this for one second. Glass recycling schemes predate the whole green thing by decades. In the UK back when virtually every soft drink came in glass bottle form, virtually every bottle had a rebate available to people who returned the bottle.
That's bottle recycling, not glass recycling. Your refreshing bottle of Vimto or Dandelion and Burdock had to be returned intact because the manufacturer wanted to clean and re-use the bottle. This actually makes sense both economically and environmentally.
Most glass recycling in the US is less logical; here in New York you are legally obliged to recycle glass. The glass is carefully sorted into three categories - clear, green and brown - before being mixed in with regular garbage for landfill because no one wants to buy the raw glass.
A year ago Mayor Bloomberg lifted the recycling requirement, to howls of anguish from armchair environmentalists. The recycling requirement is back in place now, but the glass still gets mixed back in with the regular garbage.
Why would you buy an 8-hour DVD for $5 when I can rent it at Blockbuster for a week for $4? Really, if these were to take off they would have to be priced about a $1.
CDs are typically made from a polycarbonate material. These are recycle code 7, "Other". This presumes that the DVDs in question are made with the same substrate as a normal CD.
Recycle codes, if you're interested:
1 -> PETE (Polyethylene terephtalate)
2 -> HDPE (high density polyethylene)
3 -> PVC (polyvinyl chloride)
4 -> LDPE (low density polyethylene)
5 -> PP (polypropylene)
6 -> PS (polystyrene)
7 -> Other
In addition... On average, a city pays $50/ton to throw away garbage.... and $150+/ton to recycle it.
Back when DC had a recycling program, it cost less, per unit weight, than the trash disposal program. Of course, they shut it down, citing cost.
"We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
Take a step back and pretend that you're not part of the Slashdot crowd, you're part of the VAST MAJORITY of people who are not inclined to hacking stuff. The grandmothers, the wives, the truck drivers, you know, all those poeple who have unsecured/unpatched computers sitting on broadband connections PLUS all the people who don't even use a computer/the net regularly. Now, looking at it through their eyes, what do you see? You head down to blockbuster to pick up the latest hollywood hype, and you're presented with two options. Lets assume they are the same price.
1) Regular DVD. Fair chance it's scratched up a the previous renter, and when you forget to return it (which you often do) it's gonna end up costing you twice as much. You can watch it as many times as you want (in two days), and even lend it to a friend (try not to get it back late!)
2) Disposable DVD. It's a fresh copy virtually garaunteed to not be scratched. You can only watch the movie once, but that's all you planned on doing anyway. Toss it when you're done, gauranteed no late fees.
Now, think about how you'd explain to your mom why she doesn't want #2, and tell me again how there is no market.
As far as who is going to sell it, the middleman doesn't really have much of a say in that. If the big money supplier is pushing it, and the customers are demanding it, the free market will force the middleman to sell it or lose out to his competition that is.
I stand corrected. I looked this up and you are right. It was always explained to me (way back when I worked for a rental company) that the new release VHS were $70 - $120 merely to keep people from buying copies for the first few months a video was avaiable to rent.
The economic model for content distribution is really, seriously screwed up. You've got a product with extremely high fixed costs (The cost to produce the movie or the video game or the music) and essentially zero marginal cost (The few cents paid to make the jewelcase and the packaging), sold by a single company with monopoly rights for at least 70 years to a set of monopolistic competitors who demand to buy all products at a similar price.
That market is so far out of normal economics that most conventional economic laws fail to exlpain anything about it. Normally, prices convey information to buyers and sellers about the relative abundancy or scarcity of the product. The problem here is that only one entity is deciding how many of said objects to produce, and then a separate group of buyers and resellers (think companies like best buy or circuit city) all decide to buy and then sell at about the same price, regardless of the demand for the product or how many they have to sell.
Price changes for content are based almost entirely on the time since the content was created, rather than the relative popularity of the product itself, and so no information is conveyed to either buyers or sellers about scaricty or abundance. It's all completely absurd. The price at which CDs and DVDs and Video Games are sold does not at all reflect supply or demand or any sort of market condition other than the whims of the single supplier. That's why companies like EBGames and GameStop are all buying and selling used games - they don't make any money on the used games since they have to buy them and sell them for about the same price. There is intense competition among buyers of new games and media (by buyers, I mean resellers here) but only entity supplying those games. Once you have a reasonable supply of used games entering the market, you start to see a semblance of a market economy, with the price of a used game representing the abundancy or scarcity thereof.
How is this all going to be resolved? Suppose the movie companies decide to release content for extremely high prices at first, and then they set their price to about the same level as the going rate for used content. They'll keep selling products because there are plenty of people willing to pay a little extra for a new product over a used one. But then, as more new copies enter circulation, there are more sellers of used copies (since all new copies become used copies and thus all buyers of new copies can become sellers of used copies) and so the price of used copies falls, and then along with it the price of new copies. This causes more people to want to buy the product and the cycle keeps repeating with the price of the content getting closer and closer to the price of the medium on which it is stored. At this point it doesn't make any sense for the movie company to stay in production, so they should just pull back, but keep watching the market. Instead, once games and movies and cds have been out for several years, the content producers tend to ignore market fluctuations in the prices for used content. There are some used games selling on ebay for prices far above the original $50 because they went on to become cult hits. If the producers weren't complete idiots, they would start producing more new content and selling it at a little above the market price of the used games.
Instead, since the content producers seem steeped in economic ignorance, we're getting more of these stupid ideas like disposable DVDs and easily circumvented DRM.
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Actually the ideal would be that there was a chemical compound that they could soak the disks in to reverse the process, seal them up in their 'airtight containers' and redistribute the exact same disks with the exact same movies again.
Of course this would be 'ideal' because then we would find out what chemical they used and do it ourselves.
Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
When chips are made, many have to be discarded due to defects. The more sophisticated the chip is compared to the available technology, the more defects you wind up with and the more chips have to be discarded.
In the case of the 486, the math processor took about 3/4ths of the die, which means that 75% of the errors were in that spot. Intel saved themselves some cash by first testing the chip in total, then if it tested bad, disabling the math processor and testing it again. Those 2nd line chips were sold as 486SX processors.
How will their return policy deal with defective merchandise???
If the disks work on how long it has been since the disk has been exposed to air, then 8 hours would hardly be enough time to get the disk back to the store you purchased it...I imagine one of the advantages of this format is that stores not likely to rent DVDs could sell at a competitive price. The only problem is, most people play DVDs at night (after they get home)...you pick up one of these disks from a local store and open it at 10pm...by the time the store opens in the morning, the disk is already dead.
And the other method is to base it on hours of actual play (i.e. the laser destroys part of the disk as it reads)...this too would be a bad idea, as most defective disks don't show problems until somewhere around the layer change. On some movies, this isn't for an hour or so into the movie. Some cheaper DVD players (Apex players specifically) exhibit similar problems when the player needs to be reset. You would certainly be asked to try reseting the player first (at which time you'ld probably already be at least half way through the 8 hours).
How does the technology work with fast forward??? slow motion??? If I run a film in slow motion, could the disk actually die before I get to the end??? If I run it in fast forward, could it die within an hour??? Do intro trailers and such count??? (they shouldn't...that's not what I bought) And what about Enhanced DVD-ROM content??? Probably none. These will likely be bare bones DVDs with little more than a few trailers. Which means they probably won't even compete with DVDs...
And lastly, what will this technology do to people's DVD Players??? Harsh chemicals and electronics don't always mix well...
DivX by any othe name is still DivX.