Apple Expands (Again) iBook Logic-Board Program

JMZorko writes "Apple has extended the repair program to widen the serial # range yet again for iBooks experiencing the dreaded, dreaded (and did I say dreaded?) video problems. It now includes serial #s up to the UV342 range (which, sadly, mine is in .. here I thought I finally got one that would stay with me for awhile, sigh)."

Comments

grr

[boredMDer]

Three times now, my Dual USB iBook has been in the shop.

Actually it's in right now, the Apple store can ship it out monday, so I should have it by Friday (hopefully, I have them shipping it directly to my house).

Twice now, the LCD (actually backlight) fails to light on start unless there's an external CRT connected...the second time, it was just random freezes and they replaces the logic board.

This time I'm definitely calling up Apple and bitching at them about this...but if it fails again, they'll replace it likely for a 1 GHz G4 iBook...I think that's the lowest end iBook now. Note that mine is a refurb G3 800 (12").

I can understand the initial failure...maybe the second, but come on, three times?

Eh.

Although I still love apple. Don't ask why. Luckily, I got it in February so it's all under the one year warranty.

I know, not informative or insightful but I was bored and I had something relevant to say. Mods, mod away.

Re:grr

[Johnny Mnemonic]

I am an ex-Genius, so let me tell you how we handled this kind of situation:

• There is nothing like a "lemon law" for computers. Maybe there should be, but there isn't.
• There isn't a formal policy that I'm aware of at Apple that stipulates that they will replace machines after the third attempted fix.
• Even if there is a formal policy, you're sure as hell not going to find it posted in a public place--that would open them to all sorts of liability when there is no legal compunction for them to do so. Even if there is a policy, to stipulate to that in public would be foolish. Much better from their perspective to be able to retain the ability to interpret the policy as they see fit.
• Although there is no national law, you may be covered by a state law that essentially is along the lines of the product being "fit for use." Lemon law refers specifically to cars and has language that is for car purchases--but some states have consumer protection laws, or contract law, that might be relevant in a more generic manner.

All that said, generally if a customer had worked with us through three repairs of a unit, especially of the same component, we escalated the issue and generally that customer's unit was replaced. My inclination is that the ability to secure a replacement had something to do with product refresh cycles--you're much more likely to get a better unit if the line is about to be refreshed and they want to clear inventory, for example. Otherwise, you'll get a comparable unit in specs or the lowest new model that still meets those specs and features.

Bottomline--after three repairs you should explain your case, describe your patience and willingness to work through the issue, but that your willingness has now come to an end. Polite but firm is the order of the day--don't whinge, don't scream and shout and call people names or impune their ancestry and professionalism, but you also should resist being bullied, and if they've already tried three times, they'll ask for a fourth attempt, but if you're firm and polite you should be able to refuse that. Ask to speak to a "Customer Service" Rep, as there is a group at Apple that does this full time and is a different group than either the AppleCare agents or the Geniuses. They can facilitate this for you, but you need to ask to talk to them, ask to talk to them directly, and are very relunctant to help if you haven't given Apple three chances already. However, if you have, I think that they'll satisfy you.

I can say that these instances were pretty freakin' rare--while certainly Macs break, we pretty much always got it fixed on the first attempt and then did our damnednest to get it done on the second. I think I can count on one hand the number of times a unit failed after three attempts, in the 18 mos that I worked as a Genius. And for those, we helped the customer with CR best we could, so if one is available they may prove to be a valuable ally. Good luck.

Re:grr

[maddvibe]

Mine has had the logic board replace three times already as well. So far about every 6 months it has died. I'm due for another break down in December. :P I'm getting tired of this thing breaking, but I still love it when it works. Last time I brought it in the genius said that if it happens again they'll probably replace it with a new iBook. I would love that, but now that he said that, it'll probably keep running forever. I think I'd prefer it to keep running anyway. I'm just glad that Apple fix my laptop for free even though it is out of warrenty now.

iBook woes

[isd_glory]

Man, I feel lucky that I had my iBook problems well before apple "announced" the issue. My iBook failed for the fourth time around September of last year, and rather than just blindly send it in again, I got on the phone with a customer representative and bitched my way up the phone chain until I got in touch with someone who could help.

After a bit of discussion (namely that I no longer trusted in the worry-free operation of my laptop), I got them to refund the money I paid for my then year-old iBook and use the money to purchase a new PowerBook. Of course I also had to send them a cashier's check for the difference, but I feel that the upgrade was worth it.

Ever since the iBook repair extension was announced, it seems that Apple has changed their stance on this issue. Had my iBook died a few months later, they would have just replaced the logic board again instead of letting me come up with some other options.

Does the problem still exist?

[baywulf]

I'd like to get an Apple notebook but an Powerbook is out of my price range. If I get a recent iBook do the problems still exist or have the manufacturing issues been resolved?

Re:Does the problem still exist?

[c4Ff3In3 4ddiC]

I have an 12" iBook G4 purchased about two months ago. Even though the serial number is in the range covered by the replacement program, I haven't had any video problems. Go ahead and get an iBook, you won't be disappointed.

Re:Does the problem still exist?

[boredMDer]

AFAIK only the G3 dual USB's were affected.

You should be good with the current batch of G4 iBook's.

Get one, you won't regret it...

Re:Does the problem still exist?

[mst76]

> If I get a recent iBook do the problems still exist or have the manufacturing issues been resolved?

The G4 iBooks are still pretty new (less than 1 year) so nobody knows for sure. Still, I'd be surprised if they haven't solved the problems, even for the G3s. The reason is simple economics. They've commited themselves to replacing every logic board with the problems. If they haven't really solved the problems, this would cost them more money in the long run than spending any amount of resources to find a final working solution (even ignoring the loss of goodwill and potential future sales).

Re:Does the problem still exist?

[Halo1]

Actually, the G4 iBooks haven't been out long enough yet to know that for sure. Most G3 iBooks only started failing after about 1 year. I really do hope they got it fixed, though...

-- Someone who has a G3 iBook with a 4th replacement logic board (because he was unlucky enough to have experienced two different kinds of logic board failures, so it has been replaced once for 1 issue and 3 times for another and they only want to talk about giving a replacement if the same issue occurs for the 4th time).

Re:Does the problem still exist?

[HoserHead]

My G3 iBook failed four times (well, the fourth time was a botched repair) before its first year anniversary. I don't know whether that is indicative of a trend, but all the people talking about replacements and repairs indicates to me that your blanket statement "Most ... started faling after about 1 year" should be called into question.

And yes, I did get a replacement G4 iBook which has been running fine since.

Why sad?

[Have Blue]

If your iBook is not actually experiencing any problems, what's there to be sad about? Since the entire line is several months old now, you should be well into the safe area of the bathtub curve.

Nice to see 'out of warranty' repairs

[amichalo]

It looks like Apple is really going out of its was to honor the quality of the product, even outside the 12 month warranty. I think this is admirable.

But Apple is sort of in a damned if you do/don't situation. They don't have a large market share to begin with and they obviously have a defective product so if they did NOT repair them, it would probably lead to negative publicity (both for not repairing them and having a poor quality product) and they would most likely (in my opinon) lose customers.

My Ti PowerBook (400Mhz G4) was a first gen Ti book and I love the thing but it is starting to show signs of aging (booting the computer always takes a couple trys...odd) but over all, I am very satisfied with the workmanship of this and other Apple products I own. Compared to my Dell, Gateway, and Sony consumer devices, I am happy to spend the premium for Apple's quality and service (when the quality doesn't suffice).

Re:Nice to see 'out of warranty' repairs

[DAldredge]

NO, it would result in a class action suit if they didn't fix them. And apple would lose that suit.

Dual USB iBook fixed FOC several months ago

[HSpirit]

I had a free, out-of-warranty repair for this issue with my Dual USB iBook (G3-600 MHz, serial number beginning with UV201) several months ago.

(It was 'only' the second time for me - the first time was during the warranty period.)

So it looks like FOC repairs for these models has been an internal policy within Apple for some time - but now they're making it public?

Apple hardware serial decoding

[babbage]

FYI, the opening characters in the serial codes Apple uses indicate the product class & manufacture date of the product.

The initial letters of the serial string indicate the class of product. The letters "UV", for example, seem to be the code for iBooks, while iPods may start with "JQ" and a Powermac G5 may start with "XB". (I haven't yet figured out how often the letters are changed -- if, for example, the original iBook or the later G4 iBook had codes other than "UV" -- but whatever.)

More interestingly, the three digits following those first two letters indicate the year and the week during which that device was manufactured. So, for example, by setting the recall range to iBooks with codes from UV117XXXXXX to UV342XXXXXX, what they're admitting is that they had a problem from the 17th week of 2001 -- that is, the week starting Sunday, 22 Apr 2001 -- through the 42nd week of 2003 -- that is, Sunday, 12 Oct 2003. Approximately -- I'm not sure what day of the week they start counting on, or if Wednesday 1 Jan counts as being part of the 53rd week of the previous year, but again, whatever.

So, what they're saying is that all iBooks manufactured over a 30 month range had at least the possibility of a severe manufacturing defect.

Ouch.

Re:Apple hardware serial decoding

[Echnin]

My iBook G4 12" 800 MHz's serial number starts with UV402, so they've kept the "UV" code. Bought it in, humm, February, maybe.

at least it's quick and painless...

[jspivack]

I live in France, and I sent my 700MHz iBook in for logic board replacement when it exhibited the symptoms last month. I called Apple on Monday morning; UPS came by on Tuesday morning; I had the computer back in my hands Thursday afternoon. And the European repair center is in Holland!

I do have a question, though...they reinstalled Panther (10.3.2) and gave me specific Panther CD's (again, 10.3.2) because the new logic board is apparently incompatible with anything lower. Also, the "Details" section of the repair certificate says "Diagnostic, PCBA, MLB, 700Mhz, OASIS, iBook,,A12". I interpret the first two acronyms to be Printed Circuit Board Assembly and Main Logic Board; does the A12 at the end refer to the 12" aluminum G4 PB? Is this motherboard, which only supports 10.3.2 and may be common with a PB mobo, perhaps upgraded or faster than the original? (sounds too good to be true...it probably is) Is there any way I can tell?

Ex?

[waldoj]

I am an ex-Genius

"Im glad I got a second chanse to be smart becaus I lerned a lot of things that I never even new were in this world and Im grateful that I saw it all for a little bit. I dont know why Im dumb agen or what I did wrong maybe its becaus I dint try hard enuff. But if I try and practis very hard maybe Ill get a little smarter and know what all the words are. I remember I did somthing but I dont remember what. So I guess its like I did it for all the dumb pepul like me.

"P.P.S. Please if you get a chase put some flowrs on Algernons grave in the bak yard..."

Re:Apple's Tech Support SUCKS

[loid_void]

I get great customer service on all issues. I treat the person on the other end of the line like a human being, even use humor at times, and they have never failed me. Have you ever tried the customer service with other companies? Most of them fall way beneath that of Apple. I know it's frustrating at times, but the machine still blows away a PC.

Re:Apple's Tech Support SUCKS

[csirac]

Call a lot, and if need be yell.

I hope you tried being polite first. And by "call a lot", unless they are stuffing you around/missed dates, once a day is tolerable.

As someone who's worked on tech support, a rational explanation of your history and situation can command respect without the need for any yelling, abuse, or threats.

Does Apple track support accounts using support IDs? If so I can guarantee that from now on, every time you call, they punch your number in, your past behaviour will be flagged on their system. On our system, customers flagged AH were prioritized at the end of the queue for their support category when the shop is overloaded with work.

If the customer starts abusing/swearing at any staff, policy was that the boss could order jobs to be reverted/cancelled, the account to be settled and closed. Seen that a few times; even refunded/re-acquired systems and networking hardware, labour etc. to take their trading value back to $0. In other words, no longer our customer. At all.

We're just not interested in doing business with abusive arseholes. On the other hand, Apple has a legal obligation towards your warranty support so they have no choice in what customers they can get rid of.

If they were the ones that were being rude to you first, try and speak to a different operator. This might just mean hanging up and trying again. They're not all the same - their HR department/colleagues may even be interested to hear what you have to say about Joe Operator if he was being deliberately unhelpful or incompetent. They won't know until you tell them about it.

Did you provide any history/details or talk to anyone handling the repair job? I'm not sure how Apple works, but with Canon/HP/Oki/LGe/Acer etc. the actual repair job may be dispatched to a 3rd party general purpose repair centre with different job system.

Is it possible Apple was not providing repair history to the repair centre? Perhaps even sending it to different repair centres each time? If the first phone call you made was after the 4th job, that may be why it had seen 4 attempts.

But you're right Apple saves pennies by jerking customer's chains when they want them replaced, and they really shouldn't.

In your case, four times, same fault - sure. At our shop, though, we had some customers demand complete replacement systems even on the first failure (simply because it's new, it surely can't fail!). If your system has had two or three unrelated failures, it can be quite hard to convince you that the repaired system is no more likely to fail than a whole new one.

It's a big decision to replace a whole system, since you've essentially got rid of 2 systems + parts + labour for the price of one.

Just remember that the poor schmuck on the other end of the phone is just trying to do their job, yelling and screaming will rarely help your situation, you need to co-operate and help him/her help YOU.

If up-front abuse does work, that's probably at the expense of standard operating procedure, dignity, and the support guy being intimidated (wants you off his back).

I have been outright lied to, I have been transfered, put on hold for hours, and the whole nine yards...

Was this before or after the yelling? If before, I hope you made a complaint. They want to know if their system is working, but those that have the power to fix things won't know unless you provide FEEDBACK.

If after you lost your temper, well, they were probably overloaded and had hundreds of other callers who were being polite and helpful. If you could pick and choose, what would you do? Do you think your yelling helped your situation in a positive way?