Tecmo Upgrades Ninja Gaiden Via Xbox Live

joinder writes "IGN is reporting at that Tecmo will be releasing an freely downloadable upgrade of Ninja Gaiden via Xbox Live, including 'improved AI' and 'full 360 degree control of the [in-game] camera', as well as new enemies, bosses, and weapons. As far as I know, this is the first time such wholesale gameplay and content changes have been made on a console title - fortunately, the Ninja Gaiden upgrade is free if you have Xbox Live. Could this be a symbol of a positive trend to come, or a negative one that would equate to the bugfix/patch crazy world of the PC gaming world?"

Comments

Isn't this a change in MS' patch policy?

[empaler]

I thought Microsoft would only allow patches that directly influenced online gaming perfomance?

(Of course, I could be wrong)
(Though very unlikely, I rule!) ;)

Re:Isn't this a change in MS' patch policy?

[ld_hrothgar]

I don't think that's correct... I have the patch that adds Yavin Station and some other stuff to KOTOR, which is not an online playable game so how could the patch affect online play?

Re:Isn't this a change in MS' patch policy?

[musikit]

it isnt a patch this classifies as extra downloadable content. like extra boards, enemies. they just happened to include extra functionality at the same time to scapegoat the no patch policy

Re:Isn't this a change in MS' patch policy?

[Dark Nexus]

The way I understood it, that doesn't apply to adding content, just to fixing bugs.

Re:Isn't this a change in MS' patch policy?

[Niobium-41]

Actually.. since this patch is being used in Phase 2 of the MasterNinja Tournament. It directly affects online play for the people in the tournament.

It also just happens to be available to people not participating in the tournament.

Re:Isn't this a change in MS' patch policy?

[Anonymous Coward]

they just happened to include extra functionality at the same time to scapegoat the no patch policy

Main Entry: scapegoat
Pronunciation: 'skAp-"gOt
Function: noun
a : one that bears the blame for others b : one that is the object of irrational hostility

It's usually helpful to know the definitions of words before you try to use them.

downhill, for x-box anyway

[dfenstrate]

The reason why console games are so vigourously play tested is because once you make a playable disc or cartridge on a system, there's no such thing as a do over.

This will probably only encourage laziness on the part of some x-box designers.

Re:downhill, for x-box anyway

[BrickM]

Maybe it's just the marketing-speak, but this doesn't seem like a bugfix to me, just like the extra tracks and cars in PGR2 weren't a bugfix. This content adds all sorts of new stuff(enemies, weapons, etc), and a few enhancements to the actual gameplay (camera and gamespeed), but none of those things are bugs. At least, no more than leaving CTF out of MechAssault when it launched (and including it in a download over Live 6 months later) was a "bug".

Re:downhill, for x-box anyway

[MarkPNeyer]

If "things going downhill" as a result of "laziness on the part of some x-xbox designers" means me getting awesome new content for a great game with a few flaws, I can only hope things go further downhill in the future.

Re:downhill, for x-box anyway

[MindStalker]

But you also have to remember that currently only about 10% of console users have internet console ability (don't know what the figure for xbox is exactly just quoting the sony exec from the other day, but its probably fairly accurate.) Anyways releasing a game that needs updating would be seriously shooting yourself in the foot as you really can not count on many people being able to update. Now console makers are saying that broadband will be "essential" for next gen hardware (which is why I think xbox is stupid to not include a harddrive or some large storage medium for the xbox2) so you might be seeing required updates then.

Re:downhill, for x-box anyway

[Radix37]

once you make a playable disc or cartridge on a system, there's no such thing as a do over

Pokemon GBA proves otherwise.

Re:downhill, for x-box anyway

[gamgee5273]

What else is in there? If it's just an addition, that's great. But if these additions are in there to cover-up bugfixes, then this is not something I would want to continue.

Re:downhill, for x-box anyway

[bigman2003]

I'm not sure what your actual take on this is, so If I'm mis-reading you- sorry about that.

Ninja Gaiden is a very highly rated game- most sites give it well over 90%. (Gamerankings total is like 91.5%). This NOT a game that 'needs updating'. This is a case of refining an already great game.

Adding camera control, and new enemies is a great idea. Kinda like Diablo II LOD adding 800x600 support and that entire 5th act. Did the 'fix' the graphics? Now..they just 'improved' the graphics. Because the game was great beforehand, and they just made it better. (But still...the resolution was pretty bad before, and after the update)

Downloadable content is one of the strong points on the Xbox. Microsoft knows this (they push it all the time) so they next Xbox will definetly have some sort of mass storage that can handle large downloads. We just don't know what it is yet.

Back in 1983-1985 I ran a BBS. I had an awesome array of 6 Apple II floppy drives. At that time I didn't wish for a hard-drive (because I wasn't really familiar with them) I wished for MORE FLOPPIES! Just imagine if they could read on BOTH SIDES without flipping them over...during this time, forward thinking companies were trying to figure out how to squeeze a hard-drive into PC's..but I was thinking of making floppies better.

Well, while we all sit around thinking that Microsoft is a bunch of dummies, because we really want our hard-drive..they've probably got something up their sleeves that will be much, much better.

After all, they were the first to include the hard-drive, and the other manufacturers hadn't seen the necessity. Now that we see it as a necessity, the might just be going to the next level. I'm waiting to see what the next Xbox mass storage will look like...I'm guessing it will be even better.

Re:downhill, for x-box anyway

[buffer-overflowed]

90%? I disagree with that. It wasn't THAT much better than Shinobi. Which was ranked as 71%.

Anyway. One of the few really, really, really fucking annoying things in Ninja Gaiden was the lack of camera control. I'd call this a gameplay patch to fix that problem.

Re:downhill, for x-box anyway

[bigman2003]

Well, that's the cool thing about Gamerankings.com

Shinobi was rated a 74%, by 68 media outlets and is the number 1,439 ranked game by gamers.

Ninja Gaiden was rated a 92%, by 85 media outlets and is the number 46 ranked game by gamers.

Okay- I am not going to say that these numbers have any hard-core science behind them, but they really are the best numbers we can use for a comparison.

So, depending on how you value a 92% rating vs. a 74% rating- a large part of the world thinks that Ninja Gaiden is THAT much better than Shinobi.

Of course, they rank Zelda Ocarina of Time as the number 1 game, and guys in little green costumes give me the creeps. So I didn't like it at all.

Re:downhill, for x-box anyway

[buffer-overflowed]

No. It's not ranked by gamers. It's ranked by media outlets and review sites, where your game has to seriously suck in order to score less than a 70%.

Re:downhill, for x-box anyway

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh, it has gamer rankings too, it's not just the media.

Re:downhill, for x-box anyway

[bigman2003]

Maybe you disagreed with my initial comments about Gamerankings.com, because you don't really understand the site.

It has media ratings, AND user ratings (rankings).

Take a look at: http://gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/561532.asp?q=ni nja%20gaiden

Look at the little section on the right, that is a small chart with bold/red headers. It shows the media rankings, AND the user rankings. Now I may be stretching a bit, but I assume that 'users' on Gamerankings.com are gamers.

Re:downhill, for x-box anyway

[Snowmit]

The reason why console games are so vigourously play tested is because once you make a playable disc or cartridge on a system, there's no such thing as a do over.

Every time there is some discussion that involves the possible patching of games, someone hauls out this old cliche that console games are more properly playtested than PC games. It's not true.

What's true is that consoles are easier to test for than PCs because PCs involve countless configurations of hardware and software whereas every Xbox/PS2/GameCube is pretty much the same. This makes testing easier and it makes finding bugs easier on a console.

Despite this fact, there are quite a few console games with terrible bugs. Driv3r shipped with terrible pop in and strange flickering graphics; At least three games no longer work if you are using the new big memory card on your GameCube; Tomb Raider, Angel of Darkness was full of problems; So was Enter the Matrix; Knight of the Old Republic had a bunch of known issues; Thief: Deadly Shadows has abrutal AI bug; even SSX Tricky locks up my GameCube from time to time.

Console games are full of bugs, we're just used to playing around them or ignoring them. PC games have more bugs because it's harder to find them and because a lot of them involve the arcane interactions of strange hardware configurations. Properly finding PC bugs requires more time and resources, both of which most publishers aren't willing to give, especially when consoles are a bigger part of the market.

Repeat after me: it's not laziness, it's complexity.

Re:downhill, for x-box anyway

[Allanon01]

Broadband probably will be "essential" for next gen hardware because storage will probably be in the form of virtual storage on Microsoft servers. The server only needs to store the users saved games, scores, and flags that specifies what downloadable content the user has access to or has paid for. The game developer's downloadable content is only stored once on the server but can be accessed by all users. Plus space can be provided for user created content. The advantage of this approach would be taking data from one XBox to another would not be a problem. Plus if the XBox breaks or gets stolen your data is not lost.

According to the Official XBox Magazine there will be a patch to the current Xbox that allows users to upload maps and graphics to Microsoft servers so others can have access to them while playing online. So it's not a far leap to think Microsoft might just use their servers to store all user data.

Re:downhill, for x-box anyway

[DeadScreenSky]

But if these additions are in there to cover-up bugfixes, then this is not something I would want to continue.

There aren't any bugfixes with this content update. Some people don't find Ninja Gaiden's admittedly fast-moving camera to their taste, but this isn't a bug. A new camera system is being offered as an alternative option for those players.

AFAIK, no bugs have been found in Ninja Gaiden.

I have no problem with Blizzard-style patches

[Anonymous Coward]

And that's regardless of the platform. Blizzard has always tweaked gameplay to make it more balanced after delaying the game multiple times to make sure it would be finished upon release.

I see absolutely no difference here - in terms of content (in terms of content, this is a whole other story). They're fixing issues that gamer had, and increasing difficulty for the online tournament.

This sort of patch is great. Keep them coming.

Re:I have no problem with Blizzard-style patches

[Anonymous Coward]

I meant in terms of content, and then in terms of distributions. Sorry about the possible misunderstandings.

Bug / Fix vs. Add-Ons

[RobDogAlpha]

If online updates for console games become widely accepted it might cause releases to be rush released and patched later, but what about the Thief AI difficulty bugs? Problems can still happen without the parachute of updates.

I can't beileve there hasn't been more demand for developers to update Xbox games or add content.

I wonder if this patch policy change

[the_skywise]

Is an attempt to further drum-up support...

They've pushed the price as low as they can go, and they're vehemently criticizing (but not disputing) reports that the XBox 2 will not be backwards compatible.

Re:I wonder if this patch policy change

[fr0dicus]

Tecmo != Microsoft.

Camera control

[secolactico]

'full 360 degree control of the [in-game] camera'

Dear god... make it so, make it so!

The funky camera in Ninja Gaiden is perhaps the hardest aspect of the game for me (admitely, I haven't got very far in the game) and I constantly wish for "Super Mario Sunshine"-like camera control. Screw the first person view, it's not that useful anyway.

Re:Camera control

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree, 90% of this games difficulty comes from a very poorly implemented camera, which is quite sad (and infuriating). And trust me, you may have not gotten very far, but it only gets worse.

I'd like to see them make this "patch" available for non-Live subscribers as well. They should have done it right the first time.

Re:Camera control

[Anonymous Coward]

I think Prince of Persia has more ninja like skills and gameplay than Ninja Gaiden... I liked it.. but yeah.. the camera was annoying.

It is a cool thing

[damballah]

but, we don't want to bring pc mentatlity to consoles. If they had advertised this "upgrade" as a cheat code, woul we have cared? Is that even possible?

Re:It is a cool thing

[wibs]

Here's a solution: charge developers a hefty fee for doing any of these patches. A very hefty fee. It'll still be cheaper and easier than a recall, but it won't encourage anyone to release a bajillion patches per game.

Re:It is a cool thing

[YOU LIKEWISE FAIL IT]

You'd need to make a distinction between additional content patches though - otherwise there's even less incentive for aftermarket content such as enjoyed by Crimson Skies, KoToR, etc etc. And if you make that distinction and exempt additonal content patches from fees, I can bet someone is going to try and sneak bugfixes in mixed with some crummy additional feature.

YLFI

Can Thief do the same thing, then?

[Blackwulf]

Thief had a problem with their difficulty settings and they were able to patch it on the PC, but not for Xbox. Why? Because Microsoft wouldn't allow them to patch something that does not affect Xbox Live play.

However, here comes Ninja Gaiden patching something that does not affect Xbox Live play, but bundling it in with new content.

Could the creators of Thief just make new content and then just put the difficulty patch in with it, to get Microsoft's approval? Or did they perhaps not code the game with additional content in mind?

Re:Can Thief do the same thing, then?

[Gaijin42]

Microsoft does not allow patches for non xbox-live games. It has nothing to do with what type of content the update is.

Ninja Gaiden has an XBox Live portion already (head to head battles) even tho nobody uses it. That is the loophole that gets them their update.

If Thief had a "vs" mode, or a level download feature, then they could fix the difficulty bug, even if nothing about "live" was modified.

Re:Can Thief do the same thing, then?

[Mike Hawk]

The AC alledges that it has no head-to-head mode, so there's that. What all Xbox games are now is Live-aware. This allows players on Live to see what game you are playing, even if it is a single player game, and send you invites to play with them. Its rather nice.

Call it a technicality or loophole if you will, but basically all Xbox games are now online, at least in this form. Its a nice requirement if you ask me, but Im sure some slashbot will find a way to hate on it.

Re:Can Thief do the same thing, then?

[Hassman]

Since when is this a patch for NG? A patch implies that the game is flawed somehow, which is not the case.

This looks like additional content like other games release. Some realease maps, others new mechs, even others new weapons.

This is a perk, not a patch.

Re:Can Thief do the same thing, then?

[Gaijin42]

I used the wrong terminology, but the game does have a competetive mode (see below):

In any case, my point is still valid, the game had a pre-existing live component that was being used.

Xbox Live compatible: Tecmo's revered development team, Team Ninja, has created a unique Xbox Live feature within Ninja Gaiden. The Master Ninja Tournament, developed specifically for the game, will allow players to participate in a nationwide competition. Here, players will put their honed ninja skills to the test to determine the top Ninja Gaiden player in the country. Participants will compete in downloadable trial missions made available only through Xbox Live. Top-ranked players will win special prizes and be included in the Ninja Gaiden Hall of Fame.

http://www.xbox.com/en-us/ninjagaiden/default.ht m

Re:Can Thief do the same thing, then?

[Gaijin42]

this is a duplicate, I replied the same thing to the AC. but since he was an AC, the conversation stops!

I used the wrong terminology, but the game does have a competetive mode (see below):

In any case, my point is still valid, the game had a pre-existing live component that was being used.

Xbox Live compatible: Tecmo's revered development team, Team Ninja, has created a unique Xbox Live feature within Ninja Gaiden. The Master Ninja Tournament, developed specifically for the game, will allow players to participate in a nationwide competition. Here, players will put their honed ninja skills to the test to determine the top Ninja Gaiden player in the country. Participants will compete in downloadable trial missions made available only through Xbox Live. Top-ranked players will win special prizes and be included in the Ninja Gaiden Hall of Fame.

http://www.xbox.com/en-us/ninjagaiden/default.ht m

Re:Can Thief do the same thing, then?

[Blackwulf]

I, personally, see the camera change as a "patch" rather than "new content". That's why I posed the question. I played the demo and didn't like the camera system, so I didn't get the game...So I see the 360-degree camera functionality as a "patch" rather than new content. The original game had a camera, and the downloadable content here "fixes" it.

That's why I asked that if Thief could somehow package new maps and weapons, if they could then "fix" their difficulty bug in the same way. (Apparently, I was stupid and didn't do enough research to see if Thief even had an XBL mode. Score -1: BW's A Dumbass)

Re:Can Thief do the same thing, then?

[Osty]

What all Xbox games are now is Live-aware. This allows players on Live to see what game you are playing, even if it is a single player game, and send you invites to play with them. Its rather nice.

All games are not required to be XBox Live-aware. It's an optional feature that developers may or may not support. Developers do have to do work to be Live-aware. It's not something you just get "for free". If Ion Storm chose not to do that work for Thief, too bad. That means that you can't patch Thief, either.

It's a two-sided sword, though. If you promote your game as Live-aware, you're going to have fans begging you for downloadable content as soon as your game ships (yes, that makes no sense, since if the DLC was available at ship time, it would be shipped with the game, but that's the mentality out there). If you don't have any plans to do downloadable content, you'd better resign yourself to a pissed-off fanbase.

Re:Can Thief do the same thing, then?

[Hassman]

Ahh gotcha.

I didn't think the camera was all that bad. If screws you over every now and then, but you get used to it for the most part.

I'm looking forward to the new stuff though. It truly is an awesome game. One of the best I've ever played.

Fishy

[netfool]

Maybe this part of MS's long arm:

1) Developers make a great game
2) Have developers not include all the features
3) After the game has been released and sold well, have developer release the extra features and levels etc which are only available through XBox Live
4) People will want those extras and will get XBox Live
5) Profit

GENIUS!
[/conspiracy theory]

Re:Fishy

[The_reformant]

you missed the step 4.5)?????

Re:Fishy

[Anonymous Coward]

1) See someone's comment miss the ???? step.
2) Post ???? step.
3) ????
4) Profit!

Horrible precedent

[Anonymous Coward]

If the network were free, I'd have less of a problem with this. But XBL isn't free.

People without paid network access have no means of obtaining these patches. Tecmo sure ain't shipping patch CDs. Even Microsoft themselves provide multiple distribution formats for their countless Windows and Office patches, but not here. And all of a sudden, Xbox owners without XBL are second-class citizens who are missing out on more than just network access by foregoing the monthly MS tithe. Bad precedent, but miraculously, nobody will ever notice.

Put another way, the application of XBL changes. The application of Xbox is to play games. The app of the remote control is to enable DVD playback. The app of XBL is to provide online competition, cooperation, and communication. But now, XBL is a patch delivery system as well. And what happens when Xbox owners who don't have XBL (and weren't previously interested) start to see it as such? They get XBL. What does that make this? Paid patching, that's what. Now, what happens when Microsoft starts seeing paid patching as a revenue stream (thereby making its use as a selling point to publishers quite attractive to MS)? QA goes down, because both pubs and MS will see post-shipment bugfixing as nothing but a good thing - MS gets XBL subs, pubs can be lazier and can meet ship dates by shipping buggier code. Welcome to Windows gaming, console fans. How stupid we've been these nigh 20-30 years.

Re:Horrible precedent

[VividU]

If the network were free, I'd have less of a problem with this. But XBL isn't free.

Which is why upgrades/patches/content are only available for Xbox Live enabled games per MS policy (as I understand it).

Re:Horrible precedent

[KDR_11k]

Expect this policy to change should MS ever dominate the console market.

Re:Horrible precedent

[SuiteSisterMary]

DOA3, Splinter Cell, and other games have had their content updates distributed on Xbox Magazine CDs and the like, too.

Re:Horrible precedent

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm curious, are these patches repeated every so often, or is the distribution of a certain patch limited to one issue of the magazine that people then have to hunt down? And are these discs copy-protected? Can unmodified Xboxes run home-copied copies of these patch discs?

I ask, because on the PC and Mac, I can go download patches for years-old games, because even if the publisher or developer is no longer around, users can host and redistribute such needed files. If I had no internet connection, someone could grab my patches for me, burn them to a disc, and hand the disc to me, which I can then stick in my non-restricted DVD-ROM drive. No such mechanism exists for Xbox from what I can see, so I want to know if these magazine-provided patches are guaranteed to be available in perpetuity (rotating every few months for subscribers or whatever) or if they become rarities for people without network access. In other words, five years from now, if I want to pick up an Xbox and the original Ninja Gaiden disc for $50 used, and I want to play Ninja Gaiden version 1.1 or 1.8 or whatever, what will my options be? Let's assume Tecmo is no longer hosting patches for this now-old game on the now-deprecated XBL network in this time frame.

I'm not trying to think of anything that MS and Tecmo shouldn't have tried thinking about already. I realize that 5 years from now, assuming MS is still chasing the console market, they won't necessarily want me buying used copies of their old stuff. But I can only think of my own interests here, because someday I seriously might want to do what I say in the example given.

With games on PC/Mac, PS2, GameCube, Dreamcast, etc., I can buy an old or new game and know that it's as stable as the pubs forced the devs to make it the first time around. With the PC and a free internet, I can be somewhat assured that I'll be able to find patches for at least popular games too. But on proprietary, paid-for, non-user-hostable networks like XBL being used for patches, I have no such assurances in any capacity. So the dynamics of the whole magazine patching thing intrigues me.

Re:Horrible precedent

[focitrixilous P]

Now, what happens when Microsoft starts seeing paid patching as a revenue stream

You buy a cube or PS2. Sell your games to a XBL paying friend, and move on with life. Easy enough, right. Microsoft realises it's plan isn't working, pulls it's head out, and goes back to being a normal console. Of course, you could retain you l33t xbox zealotry and pay up, but that's your choice.

Re:Horrible precedent

[AzraelKans]

[i]People without network access, dont have access to patches... [/i]
Er... these are not patches they are extra features (for real not like those in windows) since they are not solving any problem with the game (camera spinning maybe cool but its not needed, extra AI, believe me, you really dont need it or want it), several games have access to extra levels and features via xbox live. so er.. get a grip.

Re:Horrible precedent

[rufo]

Actually, the PS2 is starting to have patches also. From what I understand SOCOM 2 has required updates that it will store on your memory card, and of course FFXI requires the hard drive and will download content/updates onto the drive. I'm sure more games will come out that will use the HD, and of course what better use is there for a hard drive then changing, constantly updated content? (Obviously game storage, but as the PS2 usually uses memory cards for that purpose I understand the HD isn't typically used for game saves.)

Also, it's not unheard of to update console games once they've been released. 007: Agent Under Fire and MechAssault both had buffer-overrun problems that let hackers ultimately run unsigned code on the Xbox (something I've recently taken advantage of) that were fixed in later versions. The first version of Ocarina of Time for N64 had red blood when you killed Ganondorf, which was changed to green blood in later versions (along with other minor fixes) due to ratings concerns. The first pressings of Gran Turismo 2 had numerous bugs which caused Sony to offer a recall for any disc exhibiting problems. I'm sure there are many other examples of console games being updated after release. It would not surprise me in the least if Ninja Gaiden's Platinum Hits version (for it will be a Platinum Hits game eventually, I'll bet my life on it) had the patch already incorporated, and perhaps they'll even include the patch starting with the next batch of CDs they press.

Another option would be for Microsoft to release discs avaliable for little or no charge with just content updates on them once they decide to discontinue Xbox Live. That way the content and patches are still available, and they still get to collect additional revenue from Xbox Live while the service is up.

Re:Horrible precedent

[Jackazz]

But it says right on the box 'Xbox live enabled' and 'Content Download'. They have never mislead you that you don't need xbox live to get updates. I don't see what the problem is, you get something extra for paying money...making any sense?

The game works fine on its own, it is just bigger and better with xbox live.

Re:Horrible precedent

[stinkyfingers]

Uh, not really. This isn't a patch. It's improved game content, as clearly stated in the article. If we take the article at it's word, there's nothing wrong with the game. So the additional benefit of being an XBox Live subscriber is downloadable content, *not* a bugfix. That's not to say that bugfixes couldn't be distributed this way, but this article shows no precedent for bugfixing.

In plus, if they wanted to distribute bugfixes, this way, it'd be easy to leat nonsubscribers download those, but not "premium" content.

No HD in XBox 2

[ffejie]

So what happens when there is no HD in XBox2? Where do the patches get downloaded to? A memory card? Do I get to have a memory card patch for each one of my games now? Aye, this better not be the beginning of console games acting like PCs. The very reason I play console games is because they're not buggy and upgraded all the time -- I like that I just throw them in the XBox and they work, nothing else to worry about.

Re:No HD in XBox 2

[gamgee5273]

Where do the patches get downloaded to?

Oh, they haven't mentioned that part yet: MS will just surgically implant a cranial jack in the purchaser's skull. That way, you can have the ultimate portability for your game saves when you go over to a friend's house!

By the way, the next Xbox will cost $10,956 and require a six week stay in a local hospital, and you will lose the fine motor skills that control drooling. And, minor item: the survival rate is less than 25%... but you'll have the newest console technology on the block (if you live)!

Re:No HD in XBox 2

[AzraelKans]

Er.. guys does anyone at least considered the option that they will eventually sell a hdd like the ps2? or that an usb device these days can handle up to 1 gig of info? and they are almost as fast as a hdd?

Re:No HD in XBox 2

[Anonymous Coward]

Ummm, solid-state USB 2.0 storage devices are a good deal faster than hard drives.

For those who choose NOT to RTFA...

[toiletsalmon]

1) The updates are adding new content and changing game "features" that they deliberately decided to implement (i.e. the original camera control) I guess it's a technicality, but it's more of an artistic reinterpretation on the designer's part than a "bug fix". None of the stuff they're changing is "broken".

2) Part of the update makes the game AI "harder" for round two of the "Master Ninja Tournament", which they've planned to do all along. Everyone can't be in the second round of the tournament, but everyone can still play the "Tournament Version" of the game.

Re:For those who choose NOT to RTFA...

[Anonymous Coward]

1) if you had played ninja gaiden extensively, you would be hard pressed not to say the camera system is broken.

Re:For those who choose NOT to RTFA...

[Niobium-41]

If you had played Ninja Gaiden extensively.. you would realize that if you're having problems with the camera.. you're doing something wrong..

I've played through the game numerous times, and ranked 71 in the first round of the Master Ninja Tournament, all without adjusting the camera once..

Wow

[Peteloaf]

I absolutly cannot believe all the negativity. Tecmo, in an effort to both add replay value to an extremely popular title & address user complaints (camera mostly), is releasing a free add on for Ninja Gaiden and all that everybody can do is insult both Tecmo & Microsoft? I don't uderstand. What should Tecmo have done? "Fixed" the "problems" before release? How are new enemies & weapons a problem? The camera, maybe, but I dare any user on this board to name 1 third person action game that has a flawless camera - especially a game that moves as fast as Ninja Gaiden already does. Had Tecmo offered to give every body who owned Ninja Gaiden $100 would you all still cry foul? What do you people want?

Re:Wow

[Anonymous Coward]

thank god somebody else finally noticed that the majority of slashdot posters only know the [complain] tag....

Re:Wow

[drinkypoo]

What should Tecmo have done? "Fixed" the "problems" before release?

Yes, they should have fixed the problems before release - no quotes, either. Namely, errors in AI, and the crappy camera, both things they're sneaking into this update, too. The extra content costs them money and probably won't really make them any so in order for there to be any significant return on that investment it has to have another purpose, and that purpose is probably distracting gamers from the fact that they're patching bugs in a console game. Console games ARE supposed to be fixed before release.

This might be a bright day for Ninja Gaiden players, but it implies a dark future for all console games and gamers, the beginning of the end.

Re:Wow

[Anonymous Coward]

We're not complaining because it's free, Mr Anderson. We're complaining because it's *not* free.

Re:Wow

[johnnliu]

I always thought that when you bought a game that has the box "Additional Content Via XBox Live" ticked, it means exactly that. And the fact that you buy the game without having a XBL account is your acknowledgement that you are buying this game, and will not be able to take advantage of the additional content unless you get an XBL account.

Honestly, I agree that many people probably are taking this too seriously.

Disclaimer, I have Xbox, and I don't have XBL. But I don't see why MS/Tecmo are being evil to me. When I'm buying an Xbox game, I'm buying a DVD game! It is not supposed to be 'patched'. All these people crying XBL has become a patch delivery service is wierd.

If I'm not happy with it, I'd have returned it in the first week. If I've played it through already beyond that period, then I've already got the value that I paid for. I also acknowledged that I'll be missing out on the bonus content from not having XBL.

Re:Wow

[Anonymous Coward]

That's because CowboyNeal had an open tag on his first story about 3 years ago, and nobody ever thought to close it off...

Re:Wow

[DeadScreenSky]

"Errors in AI"? Uh, how so? I can't think of any I encounted during my several playthroughs of the game, for any of the difficulty levels, and none of my friends can either. Can't remember reviews mentioning it. It isn't like there is an AI allied character of some sort who keeps getting stuck on terrain or anything...

And sorry to disappoint you, but the AI has already been updated once already, back during the first phase of the tournament. The major changes I noticed were that nearly all enemies would stay back and fire at you from a distance - mixed it up and made the game harder, but it certainly didn't qualify as some huge upgrade (less hand-to-hand combat, which made it far less satisfying in many ways - the original game's AI was not broken). So there is no way an improved AI is being 'sneaked' into this coming update - new AI routines were promised from the initial word of the tournament, months before the game's release.

For the record, I don't understand the complaints about the camera - I suspect people got in the habit of manually readjusting the camera too much (since other third-person games require so much of that stuff), and so they basically sabotage the auto-camera of Ninja Gaiden. And hell, it is hardly difficult to just tap the camera button if you are having problems with it momentarily aiming at a wall and you are too inept to hold that handy block button...

Re:Wow

[DeadScreenSky]

What do you people want?

(I personally agree with you, this is awesome news!)

Looking at many of the other complaints, it seems like the people bitching about this are finding Ninja Gaiden to be too hard. A new camera system seems to be evidence that the real problem isn't that they aren't good enough to play the game well (no shame in that, IMO), the problem is that the game's camera was broken. A blatant lie, especially when comparing the game to literally every other free-roaming third person game in existence. As long as you don't constantly try to hide in corners and obsessively hit the camera adjust button, the camera is fine 99.5% of the time, and you can easily use the block button the .5% of the time the view gets weirder than you like. Same reasoning with the new AI routines, perhaps.

Of course, these gamers are going to be pretty shocked when they find this new content (especially the speed boost) does nothing but make the game more challenging. I personally can't wait.

(And it does look this content fixes my one complaint with the game - those purple/yellow fiends were pretty freaking weak, and you fought them for long stretches of the later parts of the game. The new monsters seem to replace them in those levels, and I am positive they will be able to get through a measly block!)

About time

[El_Muerte_TDS]

About time they started to fix bugs in console games, they have been ignoring bugs in console games for years. And now they start releasing patches it's a bad thing?

We allready have this on PC; Steam

[fluor2]

Valve's Steam is similar

Read more at www.steampowered.com

Are they serious?

[AzraelKans]

Better AI for Ninja Gaiden enemies?

For god sake's! those damn thing's are hard as nails as it is! what are they going to do now? trace me up in every corner of the map? steal my credit card number? lookup my home address?

(please link the obligated penny arcade reference)

Re:Are they serious?

[OneHungLo]

(please link the obligated penny arcade reference)

Done.

Microsoft's Xbox Live Patching Policy

[drangryman]

A number of pessimistic posters are perhaps unaware of Microsoft Policy regarding Xbox Live updated. Developer contracts limit downloadable patches to new content and features -- game-makers are not permitted to release bug fixes or compattibility updates via the online service.

Re:Microsoft's Xbox Live Patching Policy

[Anonymous Coward]

tell this to the ninja gaiden team. this IS a bugfix in terms of the camera. the camera was crap and buggy as shit, and now, with this patch of "new content", it is fixed. that is considered fixing a bug in most anyones opinion no matter how you look at it

Re:Microsoft's Xbox Live Patching Policy

[fr0dicus]

This is not a bugfix, as there was nothing 'buggy' with the camera, it was just unwieldy. Many many people have completed this tough game, with this 'buggy' camera.

People always moan about cameras in games. Tecmo tried to force a certain type of behaviour, but people didn't like it. A computer bug is an error, flaw, mistake or fault in a computer program which prevents it from working correctly. This game works correctly. Now it will work even better.

Re:Microsoft's Xbox Live Patching Policy

[Have Blue]

It may not be a code bug, but it was definitely a flaw in the game. I've lost count of the number of my deaths that could be directly attributed to the camera screwing up.

Tecmo at it again

[hiroshi912681]

Well, if ANYONE remembers, Dead or Alive 3 was upgraded via the Official Xbox Magazine (before Xbox Live was in place). I still have the disc, I paid $10 for the mag just to get the upgrade. I hope there's a way to upgrade Ninja Gaiden via the magazine, too, cause I don't have Live (nor will I ever get Live).

Wow

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes because before now console games have been bug free. Always and forever.

These are minor bugs that do not prevent an enjoyable experience. They are merely enhancing it.

And in conclusion you're a fucking idiot.

Fine...

[CaseM]

Great news! NG was already a good game, but I'll take a free, unexpected update any day. I think it's only a matter of time before consoles follow the way of the PC (in regards to patches, bugfixes, etc) anwyay, so I don't mind it starting now....even if this isn't necessarily a bugfix, per se.

No Patches

[Anonymous Coward]

Xbox and consoles don't have patches.

Xbox has game updates, which mean additional downlodable content is delivered.

Live is not just gaming online... it is a delivery service for content, play, and comms.

Lame

[fr0dicus]

or a negative one that would equate to the bugfix/patch crazy world of the PC gaming world?

Never let it be said that Slashdot isn't just as capable of FUD.

Microsoft have stated and re-stated, and it is no secret, that games are not to be patched once released. This is new content for the next stage of the Tournament. This game is Live! enabled for exactly this reason. The bulk of this release is new models and weapons, and harder AI. It could even be argued that they saw fit to make the camera a bit better because the AI is harder. Either way, this is not a bugfix, but a feature pack (and a bloody good one at that). It most certainly is not a 'bugfix/patch' release.

look at the bright side...

[ImTheDarkcyde]

...at least we wont get this kinda crap from nintendo

Thief update / MS patching

[Channard]

Well, the latest regards Thief comes from a quote from the Eidos boards... 'We are working on a solution that is palatable to Microsoft and other related parties' - which sounds to me like they are looking at a Live patch for it. Hope they don't do this though, as I'm without Live. As for Ninja Gaiden, the content may end up on a Official X-Box Magazine coverdisk some time. I've certainly not noticed the camera being a swine or any other problems with the game.