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HP Recall on 900,000 Notebooks
phycoman writes "900,000 HP and Compaq laptops have potential memory issues and are being recalled. The RAM chips from four manufacturers can possibly lead to system corruption and lockups. The affected notebooks are Compaq Evo Notebook N610c, Compaq Evo Notebook N610v, Compaq Evo Notebook N620c, Compaq Evo Notebook N800c, Compaq Evo Notebook N800v, Compaq Evo Notebook N800w, Compaq Evo Notebook N1000c, Compaq Evo Notebook N1000v, Compaq Presario 1500, Compaq Presario 2800, Compaq Presario x1000, Compaq Presario x1200, HP Compaq Business Notebook nx7000 and
HP Pavilion zt3000. As a result, HP has created a website whick allows users to download a program to test for faulty RAM chips."
I dislike HP products. We have a scanner, a camera and some other doo-dads at the office, and they all use HP technology. The problem? HP installs a crapflood of memory resident programs to handle even the most mundane tasks that could easily be handled at runtime. I would never personally buy something from HP because of their strange software policy. This is essentially Darwin in effect, folks. Nothing to see here, move along. :-)
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
/me points at HP
/me looks at apple.com... scrolls to bottom... "Extended iBook Logic Board..."
HA ha...
Oh. Damn.
Cthulu saves... in case he gets hungry later.
::helping geeks get laid since 1983::
If they managed to get a million laptops out the door before they noticed the problem, then it can't be that severe. It might set them back a few dimes though.
Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
It's nice to see a company admitting there is a problem AND fixing it.
Wouldn't suprise me if someone was threatning to blow the whistle though...
Every time I've bought an HP product I've regreted it. I even got one of their dvd burners for a mere $99 year before last (when they were ~$300 normally) and then when it broke only 3 weeks after I bought it they said it wasn't covered under warrenty. They claimed that it was covered for 1 year or until they decide the product is obsolete and no longer will be supported. Even though i'd just bought it they had decided it was too long to support any longer dispite the fact that it was still on store shelves. Then last year I got a HP 935 digital camera as a gift. It was a good little camera except for one thing. The batteries only lasted about 2-3 picutres at a time. You could wait for the amperage to build back up between sets of 2-3 pictures (usually a few minutes) but thats totally unacceptable to most people. Terrible designs and business decisions like these have destroyed any support I had left for HP. I know it's HP-Compaq now but hell would freeze over before I buy anything off them.
Sometimes a guy lucks out. I bought a 1500 not to long ago. I got it with the minimum amount of RAM in it. I wanted a gig of RAM but HP wanted almost $700 for that upgrade. I decided that upgrading the screen was far more important as I could not alter that myself later at a cheap price.
As soon as I got the laptop I orderd a gig of third party RAM from an online vendor, total cost less than $200. Installed it right away and now I don't have this problem and never have had it.
Moral of the story: Sometime it pays to be a cheap bastard.
Papa Legba come and open the gate
Laptops aren't being recalled, memory is. Writeup is too sensationalized
Hard to believe that the memory makers who hold 70% of the world market fail to produce their stuff to specs.
Looks more like a flaw with the Intel chipsets in those notebooks, but that would be much more expensive to replace.
If you're affected, check whether the new RAM modules aren't slower than the ones you're replacing.
The only HP product I had installed on my system was a HP 935 digital camera and it installed no less than 3 TSRs and was gobbling up a total of around 32 megs of ram
The testing program from HP seems to be Windows-only. Oh well, I'll just run it under Bochs.
Karma: Segmentation fault (tried to dereference a null post)
Let's see how long it takes for the other manufacturers to get on the bandwagon. Especially Toshiba. They only use Samsung memory.
(that may have been what's been causing those random lockups on my laptop. Now I know...)
I'm surprised nobody's mentioned the free 32MB flash drive you get for their screwup.
HP will provide one free 32-megabyte USB Flash Device for each notebook identified as having affected memory module(s). To receive this incentive, customers must complete all of the following steps for each notebook:
Order the replacement memory module(s) through this Web site.
Replace the affected memory module(s) without the assistance of a service partner or HP.
Return the affected memory module(s) as directed.
I get the feeling there're going to be a lot of flash drive RAIDs being made out of these...
I'll turn into a supernova and burn up everything. Well I'll turn into a black little hole and you'll turn into string.
"HP's replacement program will allow a customer to receive a small kit, containing a screwdriver as well as instructions for the customer on how to replace the faulty DRAM modules, which may include 128MB, 256MB, and 512MB versions. The customer can then ship the DRAM to HP using a return envelope and receive a new module for free."
Sooo... if I read that right (keying in on the last phrase) 900,000 laptops are supposed to go without any memory while the old memory gets shipped back, the order processed (assuming they have 1-2 million proper mem modules already on-hand) and the new memory then being shipped back. That's a ton of culmulative downtime- Ouch!
The problem may not be the memory chips per-se but the configuation information. Modern memory modules have a small non-volatile serial configuration memory that tells the BIOS which CAS/RAS/Tpd/Trd/etc settings to use. If any of these settings are wrong you are likely to get memory corruption. I'd wager this is more likely to be the problem.
This may be a coincidence but I doubt it.
I'm old enough to remember a time when HP products were ubiquitous in labs and scientists' offices. In those days they were paragons of good design and reliability.
Folger's used to be a brand associated with gourmet coffee. Once the brand got bought out, it was used in a sort of goodwill mining operation to sell vile instant coffee crystals.
This is the way of the publicly traded corporation with its short time horizons. A respected brand is just a resource to be cashed in.
mt
That may have been why my zt3000 locks up sometimes.
:(
Also of note, it is a Windows only test utility, and you sign up for the recall through the test utility. So, it is a Windows only recall.
-Jackson
I know that it's not supported, but does anyone have any idea what I can do with my Evo with Linux on it?
Can I check the memory on this somehow and get a new module if necessary?
You've probably noticed that people's noses get bigger as they get older. That's because old people are huge liars.
Translate: "We shipped some faulty chips, which caused bluescreens, now we will send a screw driver to everyone on our list so they can replace it themself"
I have one of these, and I've never had a pro
Best Windows Freeware
Wow, this comes right at the time when I'm buying my first laptop. Gather round and hear the sordid tale of their utter lack of customer service!
;)
The HP zt3000 model seemed to have the perfect balance of price and performance. I tried ordering one on their site, but since I didn't sign up simultaneously, it took me to a page where I couldn't check order status and I didn't get a confirmation email. So, I ordered my customized model over the phone the next day.
Imagine my shock when I checked my confirmation email and found that the default configuration had been ordered instead -- $50 more expensive than my customized one, and less powerful to boot! I called back to correct it, and they said it wouldn't be a problem; they'd call *me* in 48 hours.
48 hours and no phone call later, I called them back and was advised to cancel my order outright and place it again. I tried, but the screw-up order had placed a hold on the money, so I couldn't order again until it expired!
At this point, their *original* mistake had cost me the better part of a week on a time-sensitive deal, so I figured I'd get them to pay for expedited shipping. Twice, I was told a supervisor would call me by such and such a time. When this failed to happen both times, I called again and requested to be put through to a supervisor. I told him what had happened and asked for free shipping so *they* could cover the mistake *they* made. And he wouldn't even give me that.
So, to summarize, I made 13 phone calls, was told "don't call us, we'll call you" three times and it never happened, and they wouldn't even take action to correct *their* mistake which cost me all the time. At this point, I realized no laptop is worth all that crap.
(Seems I've gotten a happy ending, though. I found a very comparable (slightly better) Dell Inspiron 8600 for slightly less, and by Googling I found a coupon for a not-insignificant 10% off! It'll arrive in a few weeks, and I can't wait to put Gentoo on it
Having read the article properly this time, it would appear to be a memory chip problem. These chips would probably be fine in a PC since Self Refresh is a power saving feature that is n't used in desktop PC's.
All DRAM needs refresh cycles in order to top up the capacitor charges, normally every 64ms. These refresh cycles are generated by the memory controller. SDRAM introduced 'Self Refresh' in which the memory chip would refresh for keeping the memory contents whilst being in a power-down mode.
From the article it seems that the timing circuitry required to generate the refresh cycles is faulty on these chips so the memory is n't refreshed properly becoming corrupted.
I'd hope HP are shipping out new modules with new chips on them, if they wanted to be sly they could just replace the SPD on the modules with one that just tells the BIOS not to turn on self refresh.
"Ford Pintos aren't being recalled, gas taks are. Writeup is too sensationalized"
Uh-huh.
I agree. My Fuji FinePix A205 was really cheap, for a Fuji (like about $200 CAD), and I just plug it in and XP recognizes it as a removable disk. I think cameras don't need fancy software for pulling images down, and anything extra is a waste of time. Let software like Photoshop, ACDSEE and others be the progs for image manipulation. I think camera mfctrs should stick with what they know, and leave the other stuff alone. Oh and we bought a nice 256meg RAM for this camera, for under $90 CAD at Costco. Pretty cheap, and it works great.
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
Microsoft OLE DB Provider for SQL Server error '80040e14' Line 1: Incorrect syntax near '='. /mmrp/includes/common.inc, line 108
You expect some poor software to be aware of all those corporate takeovers and mergers happening everyday?!?!
My recent experiences aren't bad either. Our company desktops are HP Compaq D330 desktops (P4 2ghz), that are cheap but pretty well designed. They are very quiet and require no tools to open the box and swap components.
4,900,000 copies of Microsoft Windows software have potential memory leaking issues and are being kept on the marketplace. The Windows software from one manufacturer can possibly lead to system corruption, lockups and comprimised security of stored documents & personal information. The affected releases are: Longhorn (beta), all versions of XP, 2000, ME, 98SE, 98, 95OSR2, 95A, NT Workstation 4.0 & 3.X, Windows 3.x & Windows for Workgroups 3.x. All upgrade versions of the software is also affected. Windows versions below 3.0 are not affected. As a result, Microsoft has created a test which allows users to test for faulty software: If it says "Microsoft" on statup, it's defective. Microsoft officials insisted that the memory leaks were "features" intended to inform the user after approximately 300 lockups or the next release of the software (whichever comes first), the user should upgrade to the latest release.
I run linux so I can't check for the bad memory. Good job HP!
Shouldn't HP be commended instead since they're the only ones who are currently taking action to resolve this problem?
What does the typical XP user do when they buy a new scanner / camera / printer / mouse / keyboard / whatever? Don't they work right away in almost all cases after you plug it in and possibly reboot the machine? Is there any way to convince the public to at least try it before they stick the CD that came with it in their machine?
My employer purchased a few hundred of these laptops. We've been complaining to them and dropping evidence on their laps since the fall of 2002 that something was wrong. Now, nearly two years later, they finally admit that there's a problem. It's nice to see a company admitting that there is a problem and fixing it, it would have been nice to see a company admitting that there is a problem and fixing it in a timely fashion.
These aren't laptops that they sold to consumers a few months ago. These are models that consumers have been suffering with for years, and being told that there is no problem.
Say what you want about their other products, but HP printers by far are the highest quality from all my experience with them.
My HP LaserJet 4L is 11 years old and despite the trend of most hardware failing or having to be upgraded after 3 years, it continues operating at the same quality level as the day it was first turned on.
It's a shame they spun off Agilent for their digital oscilliscopes and measurement instruments. These are another high quality product HP used to make.
Whenever I buy a new computer or new memory, I always run it through a memory tester I boot from a CD. It's good to run one of these for at least 24 hours. If you find any memory problems, you might want to return the product.
It's also fun to benchmark it after the tests are done. I used SiSoftware Sandra BenchmarkHQ.
One thing to look out for though is BIOS programs that load into memory addresses that will effect the test. I kept getting errors until I disabled my onboard IDE RAID controller, and then the memory checked out fine. I guess the controller was loading something into the memory and the test would read it back after the controller changed it.
> Does anyone have the information about what each of those little images is or what they do, or which of them I can safely use the "End Process" on without having to e.g. re-install the printer?
Okay, I had the same problem, which I was complaining about in the grandparent, but I'll go into some more detail now, since you ask.
We have a really old system in the office that runs the printer hub. I've tried to get it replaced with a Mac and a nice colour copier attached, but the management didn't want to spend any money on it. It's a P2 400 with about 64 megs ram. So that's a hefty 17megs because of the HP drivers, and possibly more because we also had camera software on.
I was sick of everything going soooo slow, and I realized the HP background progs were crushing the system. They couldn't install more RAM for some reason. They just didn't want to spend the money when I was there. Anyway, I tried killing off the programs by using msconfig on the RUN thinggie. When I did, the computer responded beautifully and I'd have to switch them all back on if I need to print or use any HP product.
So basically, I don't think HP will run if you terminate any of those programs. One day I called in sick and nobody could get the computer to print. I tried to explain it to them, but they just put it off until the next business day.
The moral of the story, is that if you're going to use HP, you need the programs, and the programs eat a lot of RAM. I don't know if there's a way around it, but if there is a program that quickly lets you run different startup configs through msconfig, but dumbed down for everyday folk, that's the best bet if you're stuck with HP. Otherwise, I'd look at other companies for stuff. My Fuji camera works amazingly, and I only paid about $200 CAD for it. There is no need for the software because it just freaking works.
Another thing, I think that HP tries to add this obstruction for some kind of security over their products. Personally I think they are a bunch of control freaks who should be fired in disgrace for their moronic system and programming logic. Again I have nothing against their hardware, except the software you need to run the hardware.
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
Since this is an HP bash fest, I'm going to turn in my experience.
Why is my experience more relevent than the experiences of other slashdotters? Because, instead of working with one or two HP products, I've installed over one thousand HP computers this summer.
I work for the local school district, which has 42 schools, including a new high school opening this year that needs 750 new computers. We remove the old computers (HP Vectra and Kayak systems) and replace them with D530 desktops. This district is located in a town where 10% of the working population works for HP, so all of the computer gear is HP. If HP sells it, we use it. HP printers, scanners, networking gear, monitors, desktops, servers, and notebooks.
Of the 1000 systems we have installed so far throughout the district, only one has been DOA. And we have sent about 500 HP systems off to recycling - they are 6 years old and almost all are still working. Of the 1000 HP systems we installed last year, we have had three failures (all because of HDD failure).
The D530 is a solid product, and it is built with essentially whitebox components. It is standard through and through, with the possible exception of the power supply (it's a different shape so that it can fit in the case) and the heatsink (it has a centrifugal blower instead of a fan). We have dropped several of the systems, stacked them 12 high, and otherwise abused them. Our only complaint so far has been that they are too easy to open (this is a school district, remember).
These systems take a lot of abuse. They are power-cycled five or six times per day (teachers turn them off between periods even though we tell them not to), they are exposed to dirt and dust and other contamination (students bringing food into the labs), and sometimes students even open them and start touching things (we eventually found that zip-ties were an effective defense).
We have old (and new) LaserJet printers in service. We even replaced a LaserJet II this year. The new HP printers are cheaper, faster, and better. People who say "they don't build them like they used to" are right. I doubt that these new printers will last 15 years. That said, these new printers are far faster and cheaper than they used to be. It's a tradeoff.
So, when you say that "hp is crap", remember this: I've dealt with thousands of HP systems, and I can tell you that the failure rate is as low as can be reasonably expected.
... install another stick of ram out of your own pocket. It's not that expensive. Probably worth it in just eliminating personal frustration. or go around the office and take up a collection. Eventually the PHB might hear of it and be embarrassed about how freeking cheep they are. either way, you'd have the ram you need for the job. Maybe try sliding it in on your taxes as a work related deduction or something.
I've had to do this in jobs, just needed a particular tool, the company didn't have it or wouldn't have it, kept struggling with something that *almost* works. Bah, just went and got the tool, it all works out in the long run anyway.
I've got a great boss now, because he grew up poor and as a tool user. he saw us using our little trailer to haul cut brush around with, so he got me a dump truck. next he saw we had big piles of brush and nothing to deal with them, so I get this huge industrial chipper. He sees me using one of my puny chainsaws and next week I got a brand new whopper husqavarna. He sees us using another little tractor and a tiny trailer to haul tools around with, next week we got a big three wheeler looks like a little pickup truck. And etc, several more instances like that. He stopped by one day, I am workiong on girlfriends jeep, it needs an engine now basically, it still runs kinda sorta but is borked. Couple weeks later he drops off the keys and the title to an old 89 lincoln mark V that was surplus to him,still in good shape and under 100 thou on the clock, just gave it to my girlfriend because she needed a car that ran and he appreciates all the work we do. Not one time did we ever ask for anything, we were just just using the tools we had, which are meagre but what we have been using before we got the job.
I guess you just gotta luck out eventually and find work with a company/boss that understands that with better tools you can do a better job.
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Guess its running on an HP laptop they've not fixed yet 8)
Just for a counterpoint:
Compaq Presario R3000T notebook
Did a fresh install of XP Pro the day after getting it, installed drivers from the included CD. Everything works fine
I have since replaced the 802.11g drivers with upgraded ones from Broadcom (needed LEAP support) and installed newer ATI Catalysts using DriverHeaven's mobile mod tool.
I agree that their drivers are bloated, but mine were easily replaceable.
I used to get high on life, but I developed a tolerance. Now I need something stronger.
NO! because it is a real pain in the ass to get the drivers installed correctly and the device working if it doesn't work. I work retail, and the first thing I ask when someone comes to me with a problem installing a new printer is if they plugged it in before installing the CD. When they say yes (almost always), I show _try_ to show them how to get it removed from the system so windows can put the proper dirvers in place.
It was me, I did it, I moved your cheese
On the Contrary, quite alot of HP printers require that the device be plugged into a free USB port during the CD installation. If you don't, you are prompted to before the installation progresses any further.
The time has come for us to bill the companies for all the time we put into supporting their customers for problems that are caused by faulty products. I'll bet almost every Slashdotter is supporting at least one person, people who are Microsoft, Compaq, Dell, or Sony customers, people like my 78 year-old aunt or my 72 year-old neighbour. Are people like this really going to use a wee screwdriver to replace a memory module?
I just this minute received another call.
What is our time worth? How much responsibility does business have? It has been almost two years since my son was issued his Compaq Evo N1000c by his uni. I can't believe that it took Compaq all this time to discover the problem. There's more to this than meets the eye. All along, my son has been complaining about the computers, saying how 'crappy' they were, how often he and the other students would get the BSOD and other errors and problems.
Oh Gawd! Just thought of it.... I'd better ring my lawyer. She's got a Compaq too. And its always been unstable. I don't support her PCs; no one does. I always attributed her problems to bloody Windows ME. Now I wonder.
Well on the bright side, at times like these, relatives are forced to admit that a geeky girl who would rather mess about with computers than shop for clothes isn't a complete lost cause.
Julia Cameron
Oich ù agus hiùraibh éile
Just as a little FWIW, if you download the NIC drivers for WinXP, as opposed to the ones listed as being "For all operating systems", they are only 10MB. Still too big for a floppy, but at least it's a small improvement.
As to why the system restore disks do not double as a driver disk, that one is completely beyond me. The drivers ARE all on the disk and you actually can access them, but doing so is definitely NOT easy, especially if you don't already know the SoftPaq number you need (you can't just look for Network drivers or anything sensible like that, gotta look for SP25763 or some such nonsense).
Say what you want about their other products, but HP printers by far are the highest quality from all my experience with them.
Their drivers do have the absolute best HPPCL5 compatibility in the market.
"..and after mailing in the current stick, receive a replacement..."
r ec all/
& action=showinfo&linkvalue=3&button=Submit+ %BB
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/06/26/hp_ram_
Isn't that a tabloid?
From the actual site where you sign up for the replacement memory:
Returning Affected Memory Modules
You must return your affected memory module(s) in the prepaid return envelope that is provided with your replacement memory module(s).
ref: http://h30090.www3.hp.com/mmrp/default.asp?id=145