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China Will Monitor, Censor SMS Messages
maggeth writes "Early reports on the AP (via Yahoo) indicate that China will begin monitoring and censoring SMS communications in real time. China's 'great firewall' is infamous, but the move to censoring SMS has been slow due to technological roadblocks. Algorithms are used to identify key words and combinations of words that might be associated with 'political rumors and "reactionary remarks,"' and the system automatically notifies local police. Something to think about on your Fourth of July weekend!" Reader ackthpt adds links to coverage at the BBC and The Register, asking "What next, a massive government database system to track every message and contacts between people?"
If you make a call that the NSA has processed your conversation. The only difference is the "in the U.S. we protect personal freedoms", but don't worry, the Bush administration is working hard to remove that distinction.
The grass is only greener, if you don't take care of your own lawn.
... it's the Chinese. Their government just serves as a reminder of how far we in America have yet to fall. Even though our rights have been eroded significantly, we'll always have China to remind us that the good old USA still remains the land of the free.
Quid festinatio swallonis est aetherfuga inonusti?
Africus aut Europaeus?
"However, because its written in black and white in the agreement it's no news..."
You forget one can leave their service provider for another. What will the Chinese leave their government for?
This story provides an intriguing corollary to what is happening in the US. It's a sober reminder of what the end result can be when Big Brother gets too much power over technological lines of communication and the ordinary lives of citizens.
I'm sad to say that I have noticed a disturbing gravitation towards this kind of draconian system by our government who has somehow convinced the majority of the populace that they should be granted whatever monitoring rights they want because we need them to protect us from terrorists. Personally, I could give jack sh*t about terrorists on a minute by minute basis throughout most of my day. I feel much safer keeping certain parts of my life private and away from the Washington watchdogs.
The reality of the situation is that if we willingly give up all rights to privacy something like this type of system is not going to be far away, though few see it.
Anyone know of a phone that can encrypt/decrypt the messages when they're sent & recieved?
We will be good Americans and look the other way so long as China is still a valuable business partner.
I'm tired (not almost) of our government being needlessly criticized and underapreciated. Something you say in a conversation here isn't likely to get you arrested. This post contains the phrase 'I will kill president Bush tomorrow at 6:35:22PM EST', yet I will not be searched out and detained. This isn't to say I want some company or government body having records of my private discussions, but it's far from this Chinese policy of notifying the police, eh?
No. We're not already there. Even though both governments are powerful, one is paranoid (China) and the other is confident (USA). China made the error that you need to censor people. It's like trying to put your thumb over a garden hose. At any pressure, no matter how hard you try, you're going to loose. If you actively inhibit speech, people will turn to underground means of expressing themselves, usually through political subversion. Pressure builds up, and eventually when collectively one BILLION people wake up and realize they've been had, the communist Chinese government is history. Whereas in America, there isn't even a hose. All that political pressure just evaporates into thin air. Why censor when you can capture the minds of the people directly, through subliminal media?
Quid festinatio swallonis est aetherfuga inonusti?
Africus aut Europaeus?
- the CIA used to be prevented from spying on US citizens, not the NSA.
- Patriot act I and II (which was quietly approved on the day that we announced the "capture" of Sadaam) stripped all that pretense away. Any group is allowed to spy on us, with any group being (NSA, CIA, Fatherland Defense, and DOJ).
Are we any different than China? Yes we are. We have the ability to auto spy on most aspects of our life. That allows the feds to focus on the otherth3r3 r s3v3ral way to 3vad3 filt3rs bas3d 0n w0rds, 3v3n with0ut using crypt0graphy
atm a large proportion of the population of China are really benefiting from its governments rule.
'A Large proportion of the population' also benefited from segregation.... Free societies are judged by how well they protect the rights of the individual.... not how many they sacrifice 'for the greater good'
I don't think you would need anything as sophisticated as encryption to defeat this. I assume that encryption would be banned anyway if it worked (sounds a bit familiar...)
A low tech solution is just to use code phrases - SMS people seem to use enough of those already. Won't fool a human but it'll get past the automatic filters. A funny example was the use of the number 9 on restaurant signs which sounds like "dog" in Cantonese to advertise that delicacy while avoiding the wrath of the British. Since people in China already know that their e-mail and chat rooms are monitored I assume that they are already doing things like this.
The government could of course, adjust their filters from time to time as they learn of these things but my guess is that the clueless party official who suggested this is happy that it has been implemented and that it looks like they are in control and doing something. Whether it works or not is not really that important.
I don't think the US goverment really needs appreciation.
While one is worse than the other, that still doesn't mean that both aren't undesirable, infringing or wrong.
I think the US government should be rightfully criticized for a level of surveilence that is likely illegal, or was highly illegal before the PATRIOT was enacted.
The existence of MATRIX and ECHELON aren't exactly winning my confidence in the US government. The kind of things that they fail to cover up completely makes me wonder what they did manage to cover up, just didn't get any people with enough guts to be whistle blowers?
For a government that is supposed to be about checks and balances, neither seem to be used much.
Dont take your party hats out and celebrate just yet. The US has an even bigger system that spies on just any communication. Nothing stops Bush or anyone in charge from using it in political games since its all under a [Top Secret] stamp. The new antiterror laws that lets the govt detain someone indefinitly without telling anyone is also a great tool to stay in power.
The US is just as bad as China but its more polished on the outside. The difference is that china is open about what they do.
HTTP/1.1 400
that sends boatloads of spam?
John Kerry is a Joke!
"Check out the policy that AT&T has regarding SMS, turns out they log 3 months worth ... ala, the Amercians monitor it too."
A.) They're not preventing messages from being sent.
B.) Due process.
C.) Nobody's been investigated for discussing anti-Bush views via SMS.
"Derp de derp."
I was going to mod a lot of posts down due to stupid conspiracy theories, but I didn't see any posts with this point in mind.
(1) We have the second amendment. The chinese don't. If the government gets out of hand, we always have the upper hand. Mao said it best: Government comes from the point of a gun.
Don't like Bush? You have three options: (a) vote for the other guy, and do everything you can to get him elected, (b) pick up your rifle and follow the example of our founding fathers, pledging their lives, fortunes, and sacred honor in open rebellion, or (c) shut up and sit down, coward.
(2) We have a seperate judiciary, for the most part. Once appointed, a judge is pretty much left alone. This leads to some corruption, but the net effect is that President Bush can't order the judiciary what to do. Chinese don't have this.
Before you get your panties in a bundle over Gitmo, notice that Pres. Bush is bringing them into the homeland to prepare for arraignment and trial because Supreme Court said so. Who really controls the US? It sure ain't Bush.
(3) Patriot act gives the police the same rights that they have for prosecuting drug crimes and organized crime but now for terrorism. I certainly wish we didn't have the Patriot act, but what are the alternatives? Citizen vigilance, or martial law. That's about it. How many terrorists have you caught today? Didn't think so.
Citizens (that means YOU, unless you are a cop) have more rights to investigate crime and build cases against criminals than police do. Don't think so? Ask a bounty hunter about what he is able to do. Hint: Breaking and entering a felons home is not a crime for a bounty hunter. No warrant needed, either. Go ahead and arrest anyone you find in the house, and tie them up if need be. Bring them all downtown to get booked.
(4) The United States is the BEST and the LAST defense agaisnt tyranny. Make no joke about it, in no other country do you have as many rights that are protected by government as you do here. Is it perfect? Of course not. Rather than complain, get off your butt and do something about it.
If you really think the US is stinkier than other countries, then you are more than welcome to leave and rescind your citizenship. No one is keeping you here, unlike China.
The radical sect of Islam would either see you dead or "reverted" to Islam.
Sorry, don't think so. Even though its got more than a million people, it is far more homogenous than the USSR or Yugoslavia (proportionate to their populations). Who would "break off" from China? Tibet, sure but most Chinese wouldn't give a damn. Some backwards western hinterlands? Maybe, but see above about "giving a damn." Manchuria? No. Hong Kong, maybe but in a free China that would be unnecessary. The fact is that China, as a nation very much like the one we know today has existed for almost two thousand years and for just about that entire time has had a very strong central government. There have been civil wars, but the goals (and eventual outcome) of all parties has always been a unified China. China is NOT going to break up like the USSR and Yugoslavia. Sorry.
It is indeed a crime to threaten to kill the President, and it is far from being a new crime. While unlikely because the context, you could, indeed, be searched out and detained.
Much is made of the countless hordes of the Chinese population, and the 1 billion number is bandied about in evidence of this. I fail to see why this is relevant on a global scale.
For example, the EU has over half that population, and it is a population that is better fed, better educated, better equipped, and better armed than the Chinese are ever likely to be, with an industrial, commercial, and technological infrastructure that is literally centuries ahead of China. India has a population near to China, and no one fears their global conquest aspirations. And the US could wipe China off the map with one tenth of their conventional forces.
Besides, these measures are not indicative of a government with the ability to threaten other powers. They are indicative of a government that is clinging desperately to power, always on the verge of total collapse. Their invasions of neighbouring countries does not show anything but the overweening aspiration of a third world country to be recognised as a global power.
What he can't kill, he has sex on. Trent.
It's the responsibility of the government to create an environment where most people _want_ to stay. For example, most everyone in California wants to remain part of the US. If most people in an area in China want to leave (Tibet?) doesn't it seem wrong to force the region to stay?
From that BBC news article
;)
Avon and Somerset Police said a Special Branch officer visited Mr Devine after the person who received the message contacted police.
And
Mr Devine, an engineer at Orange, said he was worried when the officer confronted him a month after he had sent the text.
I think you've embellished it a bit
Would you know this for sure? In the UK the authorities now have powers to gag people interviewed during an investigation, so you would never know. Does the US have similar imoral laws?
Another government apologist citing extreme hypothetical examples to push a point.
How many terrorists or plots has all of this surveillance stopped? Close to zero. How many terrorists or plots have been stopped by plain old, word-of-mouth, guy-on-the-street info? More than the high-tech surveillance. How much does it all cost? Far too much.
How do you know AT&T doesn't notify the police? Would the police tell you immediately if they were notified of your private messages? No. They investigate first and then decide whether to notify you.
Such blind trust is, while admirable, also laughable.
+++ATHZ 99:5:80
Echelon = american
Carnivore = american
they do not censor, they just infiltrate your peace group or get you arrested for speaking against Bush (yes this is a reference to scenes of Fahrenheit 911).
It's easier to be shocked by other nation than our own but to critisize China for openly doing what the US are doing hypocriticaly (we all know it but still pretend it's just "stories") is disturbing to the least, it's like saying that removing people right is ok as long as you don't tell them which and you keep it a "secret".
How many terrorists or plots has all of this surveillance stopped? Close to zero. How many terrorists or plots have been stopped by plain old, word-of-mouth, guy-on-the-street info? More than the high-tech surveillance.
Not that I completely disagree with your point, but how on earth do you know?
In WWII nobody except a select few knew that that the only reason the war was won was pretty much exclusively due to the Ultra secret (breaking the Enigma and other crypto the Germens and Japan used). The secret was kept for decades.
It may not be likely, but you never knew. High tech surveillance may have prevented dozens of major terrorist attacks. They certainly are going to make that public knowledge.
Too many instances of the feds "caught" with information they shouldn't have should have pretty much put this myth to bed anyway.
Blind trust in (any) government will likely be the downfall of any country.
Finkployd
Your comment about "Homeland" is something that bugs me, too. Interesting that China calls its country the "Motherland", and Germany the "Fatherland".
"we'll always have China to remind us that the good old USA still remains the land of the free."
Excepting the U.S. is becoming completely dependent on China for just about everything. Imagine if they shut off their imports how empty the shelves will be in your local stores, especially WalMart.
Today the U.S. might weather it but at the rate multinational corporations are rushing to move everything to China the U.S. will be totally at its mercy in a few years. Is America a sovereign nation and bastion of freedom when all its jobs are in China and all its dollars go to China and China can destroy the U.S. by stopping all the container ships from leaving its ports.
Its my conjecture China a decade or two ago deduced it couldn't beat the U.S. idealogically or militarily so its opting to beat the U.S. by exploiting its greatest weakness, its greed, and beat the U.S. economically.
They manipulate their currency to make China a great place for foreigners to invest and there good ridiculously cheap on foreign markets. They have a huge, subservient, labor pool which will be unlikely to ever see pressure for higher wages. They dangle that in front of greedy American execs who don't think past the end of the quarter and the U.S. guts its own economy and moves all its capital and intellectual property to China. One day the U.S. wakes up and realizes that the trade deficits have destroyed it, it doesn't make anything any more and China will has taken control of all the capital and IP. Some of the multinationals, and there execs, might survive and make a killing, but America's as a country is finished.
Last week figures came out on foreign investment in various countries. The U.S. was passed for the first time in recent history by China and it was by a lot. China had $50 billion in foreign investment versus $40 billion in the U.S.
@de_machina
True, but "Fatherland" was already taken...
Funny, but this person is not far off from what would thoroughly discourage the Chinese authorities. What if everyone starts sending bullshit revolutionary messages? Let 'em try to lock the whole country up.
What if thousands of people demonstrated in opposition to the government, and stood up to tanks?
Well it happened. They KILLED them. End of problem for the government.
What you need to understand about China: They've got a LOT of people. They can kill MILLIONS of them and not make a serious dent in their "human resources".
And they have done so. Repeatedly.
It kept the population in check for generations. It brought them back INTO check when they started to work their way out after Mao died.
Do that often enough, hard enough, and getting a critical mass together to oppose the government becomes essentially impossible - especially when the government is actively watching for such things to get started - in order to nip them in the bud.
Passive resistance doesn't do the whole job - despite the establishment media's constant pushing of it as the solution to tyrrany. It has a long history of leading people, in mass, to the slaughter. (Even its two claimed victories - India and the US Civil Rights movement - are illusory. The Brits were trying to dump India and Ghandi gave them an excuse. The US civil rights movement didn't produce REAL gains until the riots of the '60s.)
Non-violent resistance DOES have a function - claiming the moral high-ground, in case violent resistance is needed later.
But to overthrow or reform a tyrrany that is doing active suppression of opposition, you need a Shelling point - a moment where people all KNOW that the target is achievable and the moment is NOW, WITHOUT having to plan it in advance. (It's a Shelling point when the frog hits the boiling water.) The major thrust of government's internal policies is to eliminate Shelling points.
And the main effect of massive civil disobedience in the form of bogus anti-government internet messages in China would be to identify the low-grade malcontents for mass punishment, "disappearance", or show-trials as object lessons for the rest, before they become high-grade revolutionaries.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
I don't think I said the U.S. is worse. China is much more openly repressive than the U.S. is at the moment. But the U.S. is much more oppressive than it was in 2000 and if the current trend continues the two could achieve parity in the not to distant future, especially if there are more attacks in the U.S.
I find it so odd that all the Republican business and political types who placed China at the right hand of the devil a few years ago, when they couldn't make a profit there now seem to think its a fine country. The only difference being now they can make a profit, a big profit, in exchange for moving all of America's capital, jobs and IP there.
China is a little less repressive, especially economically, but its not like its fundamental politics have really changed at all. Rather than disastrous internal economic programs they just figured out they could sucker capitalists from around the world in to building their economy for them much faster than they could do it on there own. Unlike the U.S. they've figured out trade surpluses are good and trade deficits are bad.
@de_machina