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Seagate Accuses Cornice of Patent Infringement
dncsky1530 writes "Seagate's recently filed a patent infringement lawsuit in the U.S. District Court for the District of Delaware against Cornice of Longmont, Colo. Now it is seeking an order from the U.S. International Trade Commission to exclude Cornice disk drives and any systems or products using or containing Cornice disc drives from entry into the United States. Seagate asserts that Cornice is infringing on seven of its U.S. patents that relate to several areas of disk drive technology."
seems to be the American way of doing buisness thesedays, at what point will we all stand around too frightened to develop anything for fear of being sued by a team of lawyers ?
simply developers will end up forgetting about the US market and concentrate on other countries like China or India, perhaps USA's patent/litigate buisness model is just the beginning of its end
cheers
A>S
I have begun to think you cannot breathe without infringing on a patent or two...
I hate grammar Nazi's.
Sounds like Cornice really is thieving -- Western Digital has also filed patent infringement charges against them. This is one case where I'm actually FOR filing suit.
I feel dirty saying that here...
If the US blocks companies from selling there, companies might stop trying to sell anything and could push the US economy into economic decline. I mean if you thought as a company that you had to jump though hoops in order to sell something in a supposedly free market would you still bother? Or would you just sell it in Europe?
I mean the patent laws are anti-business anyway but when you start blocking products from the country, haven't we moved to an all new level of problems? How will small businesses and internationals compete against US businesses when all international products are up for review.
I think it's interesting that instead of Seagate competing with a quality 1" drive of their own (maybe they do, I just couldn't find one), they try to compete through litigation. Reminds me of somebody else I know.
...are something like:
Patent One:
1) Method of storage digital data in a round magnetic medium
2) Method of spinning magnetic medium
3) Method of writing to round spinning magnetic medium
4) Method of reading from round spinning magnetic medium
5) Method of using round magnetic medium, reading and writing so that it can be put in a small box with electrical connectors
6) Method of taking small box containing magnetic medium that can be read and written, using electrical connectors to attach to Electronic Data Processing Machine
7) Method of taking small box containing magnetic medium that can be read and written, using electrical connects and drilling 4 holes in it so you can use a screwdrive to attach to said EDP machine.
8) Amen.
They had to go and make the platters round. Didn't they know Seagate had a patent on round flat things with a hole in the center? Man, if it wasn't for Dunkin Donuts, they would have gotten that patent on ring-torus shaped things as well. And what would the police have to do if that had happened?
TOKYO - Seagate Technology LLC is expanding its battle...
I hope this isn't irrelevant to discussion, but I was just curious- I thought Limited Liability Companies (LLCs) were only in the US. Do they have them in Japan as well, or was this article implying that the US branch of the company dealing with the U.S. International Trade Commission was registered as an LLC?
Now it is seeking an order from the U.S. International Trade Commission to exclude Cornice disk drives and any systems or products using or containing Cornice disc drives from entry into the United States.
If Seagate is truly out to protect their revenue (which is the intention of patents), they should have no problem letting Cornice continue to sell their wares... If Cornice is really infringing on the patents, they will eventually have to pay licensing fees to Seagate, so the more they sell the more Seagate will benefit. And if there is no infringement, then there is no point in stopping their sales.
This is where the US patent system is fucked up. Any patent-holder should be forced to allow others to use the technology by paying a reasonable licensing fee. Entities should never be able to use patents as a way of stopping competitors from making sales. Yet the latter has become the US way of doing business. Sad.
-hadohk
If they are violating Segates patents, then they SHOULD be sued..
Abuse of patent the system is wrong, but if you have received patent approval, you have the right ( obligation as far as im concerned ) to protect your patent.
If the patent system was totally abolished, then few companies would bother to innovate. Without some protection of having your work stolen ( and future income derived from it ) from you, why bother at all?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I've had Rodime, WD (three or four), Maxtor (two) IBM (another two), and the Seagates made more noise than the rest of the hard drives put together. The first Seagate I had sounded like someone threw marbles in a blender -- though it ran for a couple of years in that state -- and the last one I purchased a couple of months ago makes a lot more noise than the other two HDs, the DVD player, CDRW or the two fans in the system.
Is it even possible to design a harddisk these days without ingringing on one of the major player's patents?
Is that the future that awaits programmers with those software patents?
"It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton LaVey
A summary of the 7 patents that are supposedly being infringed upon: #1 - Method of writing 1s to drive #2 - Method of writing 0s to drive #3 - Method of reading 1s from drive #4 - Method of reading 0s from drive #5 - Means of assembling drive (screws) #6 - Means of rotating circular data disk (motor) #7 - Method of powering drive (electricity) Plus they are planning to utilize two of seagate's pending patents (not yet enacted); "method of writing 2s to drive" and "method of reading 2s from drive"
I have a (relatively new) 160GB drive from Seagate, and it is the most quiet drive I've ever owned. In fact, I can't even hear it most of the time because of the CPU fan.
I'd like to see more information on the technology thats being infringed upon. If Cornice is indeed taking patented technology, ripping it off and using it for their own benefit, then they should be stopped and have to pay for it.
Unlike software patents, which should be treated differently, hardware patents have quite a bit much more riding on the line for the company that chooses to undertake the endeavor of actually designing and manufacturing a piece of hardware.
Spend their time making reliable HD's?
An ageing 15G maxtor is up and perfect, while the last three seagates I've bought 2 o' em are already in a garbage bin somewhere, and this one is soon to follow, plus another I've to return 'cos it was defective from the start, damned POS.
If cornice is stealing seagate's tech, then I'll put 'em in my 'do not ever buy list' along with seagate.
Smokin' & rubying away
They are probably infringing, but then again everyone is nowadays ... I doubt they made a conscious effort to steal anything though. Their "crime" is not being part of the big trust of manufacturers with cross licensing agreements.
... how do patents promote innovation again?
Their product line is clearly innovative, the trust members have produced nothing simular and now the innovation will be surpressed
Some of you are in a real hurry to convict Cornice with out having a grasp of what the situation is. They are a start-up with good technology and good sales. Basically they produce diskdrives that use very few parts. Cornice was started by a group that use to make Maxtor, Seagate, etc. They know well what the patents are. My understanding is that the company is not infringing, but both groups hope to pressure Cornice into trading patents with them.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Maxtor bought Quantum, not Seagate.
You really think you could make a HD drive without infringing on patents?
... you will just be working for them. Not a good deal for a good entrepeneur, so usually they will choose not to enter at all.
... but at least it is a nice example of how patents surpress innovation too at least.
... so their effectiveness should always be scrutinized, they are a means to a cause. Intellectual property does not exist, it is something the government grants.
You cant innovate or make superior products if you cant even enter the market. At best you can try to license the patents, but since licensors can charge anything they want they will take as much of your profits as they can
Here we have an example of a company which did try to enter a market in which you can really only participate through cross licensing deals, they were probably fool hardy
Patents are a compromise, they prevent innovation as well as promoting it
Anyone know what the actual patent numbers are?
-- not a
Which patents are they infringing on, I see nothing in the article(s), or on seagate press release. Maybe segates just jealous, and maybe seagate and WD think if they both file there will be no litigation, because they must be right.
My understanding is Cornice is not infringing. What is going on is that these companies want Cornice to deal with them and give them access to Cornice's Patents (Think SCO vs. IBM. Think MS busy accumulating total BS patents.) These patents make it possible to build inexpensive, low-energy, small disk drives. This post was totally reactionary and does not deserve a 1 let alone a 5.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
American way is to build upon a dream and win the market created by that dream.
The US ( seems fiting here "us" ) way is to sue because they cant compete or think they can brake/bankrupt there oponent that way.
Western Digital is suing them too, so obviously something is up. Full disclosure requires me to say that 6 members of my family work for Seagate. The gist I got from the article is that Cornice is infringing on Seagate's patents relating to 1-inch hard disk drives as one of the seven patents alleged to have been infringed. I know how /.ers feel about software patents, but it is right to extend that attitude to the hardware sector? These aren't ones and zeroes, these are platters and heads. The materials cost actual money, and thousands of actual people depend on those materials to make their living. If it was open season on everything, we would have nothing, we would still be in mud huts using two cups and a string to communicate. If there is no incentive for profit, most companies won't bother to make something. That is capitalism, you take the good with the bad.
I hate sigs.
OutSourcing is created by the ridiculous demand of the US employeee.
... Lower, good where moving there.
OutBuying is already happening and will only grow do you think Cornice of Longmont will stay in the US when they can easily move there headquarter in Canada ( or elsewhere ) and just forget about those litigation ? The Net allows Etat-Unians to buy from anywhere in the world.
The Management will make a simple math.
Can whe win this patent suit , yes or no
If no whats the cost of moving our company to say Mexico or Canada
What they really do is allow you to move parts of the drive controller out of the drive and into the CPU on an embedded device.
This isn't all that new an idea, it's sort of like a return to a ST-506 interface.
The company I talked to talked to Cornice a while back. They were clueless. They removed all kinds of functionality, and suggested the users of their technology supply it in software. But did they supply the software? No.
It might go somewhere, it might not. I don't think the company is much to crow about. And I'd be surprised if they didn't infringe. GS MagicStor infringed on IBM and Seagate's patents when they made a 1" drive, why not Cornice?
...when they resort to extorting decorative molding.
These folks did Quantum, Maxtor, and Seagate drives and know what is patented and what is not. It could be that managers/attornies know that infringment is occuring, but counting on trading to make it right. But according to the techies, they are not. In this day and age of companies being based on Patents, it is hard to tell.
BTW, you are correct about the interface. This is a return to simpler times. It is quite probable that we will repeat the tech cycle of this interface leading to a new and cheaper approach. Basically SCSI got intelligent (read expensive), which allowed IDE to be developed. Then IDE got intelligent and renamed to ATA. That allowed cornice to develop and sell theirs.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
You can order a demo kit or disk samples from their website.
http://www.corniceco.com/se_demo/index.html (yeah cut & paste sucks)
Interesting thing is they say it's not a traditional drive, ie it's a stipped down device more akin to pre IDE drives.
It would be highly interesting how the courts will sort our all the IP obtained through aquisition of employees, technology, etc.
Colorado used to be a hot bed of storage technology but somewhere along the lines the 90s saw a consolidation and only the big guys seem to have a chance to play in the field. Surprisingly many of these companies got much of their talent from IBM Boulder refugees or high tech families in the area typically often related to IBM.
Here is an article from the Boulder paper showing the high tech companies that often get over looked in the area; look at #1,2,4,7, and 12.
It's amazing that in a world where employees in Japan have the balls to sue former employees for shafting them over huge profits -- that American companies actually think that they can totally own an Idea and not share the wealth with the inventor beyond a simple paycheck.
Corporations enjoy an overly indulgent privilage of being treated as a person by the law -- companies can NOT come up with an idea of their own -- humans do.
It will all be tracked down to an employee that came over and used what he/she knew from a former postion or way of doing things. How sad is that for the advancement of science and technology.
Thank goodness dupont didn't patent the use of beakers and tubes in science experiments.
If the patent system was totally abolished, then few companies would bother to innovate.
BULL. That is what corporate shills would have you think. Are you pleased to have been taken in by them? Ever heard of trade secrets? Hmmmmmmmmmm?
Patents are EVIL and UNNATURAL. They go against the natural right to use the brain God gave you to create things. They are BRUTISH. I thought of that FIRST, NYAH NYAH. It makes no legal difference whether you copy my patented design, or think of it on your own, independently. Have you given any thought to how EVIL that is?
7) include tags so morons like parent get it's a joke
The problem is not patents per se, but the idiocy with which they are granted. The PTO no longer has the intellectual horsepower (let alone the time) to even understand what it is they are patenting. There is a similar problem with the justices that ajudicate these cases. And the juries.
A jury of my "peers?" Buddy, that's the last thing I ever want. I've seen who the courts think are someone's peers.
Technology becomes ever more complex and subtle, but the population doesn't know the difference between 'well' and 'good', and worries only about being accepted by the others in their bit of the herd.
Seagate filed a claim with 6 infringements, Western Digital claims seven. So that a total of thirteen alleged patent violations but not even ONE has been specified.
Since the 2 companies are patent holders, what could they possibly be afraid of by giving details? I smell a pre-emptive strike - Seagate will not have a 1-inch product for release until late this year and Western Digital isn't yet in this market.
Let's all reserve judgment until the details are revealed.
Pain is merely failure leaving the body
5,452,159;, 455,845 B1;
c ourt=ded&dk_num=1%3A2004cv00418
5,600,506;
6,146,754;
6,324,054;
6
5,596,461
From http://corporate.findlaw.com/scripts/full_dkt.pl?
Pain is merely failure leaving the body
I didn't include 6,455,845 - Ion packet generation for mass spectrometer because it made no sense as to why this was included.
5,452,159: Magnetic parking device for disk drive
( Sep, '95)
A magnetic parking device for a disk drive includes a magnet and a member for containing the magnetic field produced by the magnet. The magnetic field containing member has an air gap which is substantially parallel to the magnet flux lines of the magnetic field so that there is no fringing of the magnetic field outside of the gap. The device magnetically captures a magnetically permeable capture member provided on the actuator of a disk drive without contacting the capture member and only when the actuator enters the gap in the magnetic field containing member
5,600,506 - Feb, '97
Apparatus and method for determining the position of a transducer relative to a disk surface in a disk drive system
Abstract
A method and system for generating a position signal indicative of the position of a transducer with reference to a fixed reference point on the surface of a disk within a disk drive system. The system is comprised of two major elements. The first element is a disk divided into sectors and has Z data tracks where each sector includes a preamble area that includes a servo band comprised of 0.75*Z consecutive overlapping quadrature servo patterns and gray scale band comprised of 1.5*Z consecutively addressed gray scale areas that have been recorded across all data tracks. The second element is a position generator that generates the position signal from the relative magnitude of each of the four servo bursts of a quadrature servo pattern of the servo band and the gray scale address of the gray scale area of the gray scale band that is read by a transducer when the transducer reads the preamble of a sector.
6,146,754 - Nov, 2000
Substantially isotropic magnetic recording medium comprising a seedlayer
Abstract
A high areal density magnetic recording medium exhibiting high Hc, high SNR, high S* and substantially isotropic magnetic properties is achieved by depositing a thin seedlayer before depositing the underlayer. Embodiments include heating the seedlayer under vacuum in the presence of residual oxygen to induce appropriate crystalline orientation and surface morphology for nucleation and growth of the underlayer and magnetic layer having substantially isotropic magnetic properties.
6,324,054 - Nov, 2001
Wrap around shock absorber for disc drives
Abstract
The shock absorber apparatus for a disc drive is a molded polymeric enclosure adapted to receive and retain a disc drive. One preferred embodiment of the present invention has a shock absorbing material of a first thickness adjacent a critical region of the drive and a second thickness of shock absorbing material adjacent a non-critical region of the disc drive. The first thickness is greater than the second thickness in order to absorb a greater shock load to protect the critical region of the disc drive.
5,596,461 - Jan, '97
Space efficient housing configuration for a disk drive #7
Abstract
A space efficient disk drive housing is described. The disk drive housing comprises a base member having a top, a bottom, and an outer perimeter having length and end portions of preselected dimensions and a cover element comprising a top surface and side walls depending downwardly from the top surface. The cover element has length and width dimensions corresponding to the dimensions of the length and end portions of the base member so that the cover element can be secured to the base member to form the housing. The cover element is provided with a first raised portion to provide a height dimension within the housing sufficient for topmost portions of a spindle motor and head stack assembly of a disk stack assembly of a disk drive. Remaining portions of the top surface of the cover element providing a continuous, single PCB support surface. A set of support posts is provid
Pain is merely failure leaving the body
See here for patent numbers, descriptions and abstracts:1 3350&thresho ld=1&commentsort=0&tid=155&mode=thread&cid=9602755
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1
Space efficient housing for a disk drive?
Wraparound shock absorber? What engineer couldn't come up with this?
Pain is merely failure leaving the body
Simple..
Just require that patents require fundamental research. That way fundamental research will still happen and technical inovation will not be stopped from over patenting.
Greg
Try Western Digital, Maxtor, Quantum, Conner... anything you want... just DON'T buy Seagate.
Seagate... See the gate on your way out after picking up a check.
Just because John Ashcroft said so? Probably not.
It's mandatory to wash your hands before returning to the land of Dairy Queen.