Slashdot Mirror
TiVo vs. Windows Media Center Edition
The Importance of writes "Two reviewers make head-to-head comparisons of TiVo and Windows Media Center Edition (here and here). TiVo still comes out ahead, but MCE is improving. Of course, some tout the flexibility of PC-based DVRs, while others question what this flexibility means when you have things like the broadcast flag and the INDUCE Act."
Hey...guess what I've never had to reboot so far...my Tivo. I don't intend for that to change anytime soon either.
Even if eventually MCE became the better product? (god of technology forbid)
-Jesse
Nothing says "unprofessional job" like wrinkles in your duct tape.
Personally I think hardware companies should encourage this practice. I picked my wireless router because if it's readily available
third party linux-firmware
If Tivo encouraged this practice, they'd have far more than media center very quickly.
It seems to me that there will always be two markets; device and PC-based. Even if MCE is a pre-packaged, Microsoft deal, it still involves a desktop computer which not everyone has, or even, *gulp*, wants!
Some people will always like to be able to control what is going on and configure their own system. Others will want nothing to do with configuration of any kind and will simply want it to work. Until M$ spins the MCE off into a device or integrates it with X-Box or whatever, the PC'ness of it will remain its barrier of entry to the mainstream.
I deal with computers all day long and when I get time to watch TV, the last thing I want to think about are computers.
"I'm a karate man. Karate mans bleed on the inside."
a tv tuner card on pc can do much better than tivo, not to mention you have the ability to burn them on CDR, or burn them to DVDR, even DVD( on DVDR) and archive them. :D
. . . even if it does pass, is that vendors are going to be very careful when describng a product to only include non-infringing uses in its marketing material. It would be instructional to go look at the old ads for the GoVideo dual deck VCR. They talked about its lawful purposes, while revealing enough that someone with two brain cells would think "Whoa! I could use this to copiez teh movies!"
One CPU cycle wasted on digital restrictions management is ONE TOO MANY.
No, but if someone discovers a cure for cancer, and Microsoft decides to make their own version of the cure because they want to make a few bucks, unless it was overwhelmingly better, I wouldn't bother.. especially if the old drug was as well known as tivo is... tivo is almost synonimus with digital tv recording/playback/etc
I agree, but it's likely that we'll see consumer AV gear WITHOUT analog outputs in the fairly near future.
The companies that make that stuff just can't WAIT to lock you out with DRM-protected IO ports. They talk about it all the time.
As someone who built his own MCE 2004 based machine, I have to admit I am VERY impressed with this OS. There is no way I would buy a TIVO now as I can customize this machine with any codecs and plugins I want and do as I please. People who say that the PC doesn't belong in the living room will have to wake up, Microsoft has figured this out a long time ago and are on the right track (there is still lots of room for improvement of course).
My MCE 2004 machine (which runs 24/7) is 100% stable (the OS is based on XP sp1), even when keeping up to date with all the patches out there. I ended up getting rid of my SA8000 DVR from time warner because it is so reliable. There are addons out there such as the plugin which provides a nice interface to the video library (you pick the movie by clicking the 'cover', and it will automatically mount the ISO), or the web based interface. Add the fact that you can listen to FM radio using a PVR250MCE or PVR350 series TV tuner card, and you have a very nice entertainment machine. The only thing which comes close to this setup is MythTV (which I do like), but has some reliability & configuration issues which aren't user friendly.
Since MCE can't be bought legally (you can only download it when you have a MSDN license), I will be 'buying' a second MCE machine once the next release comes out, and network the 2 machines (and other custom PVR machines which can share video data) so I can watch my video/dvd/broadcast anywhere in the house.
If you had cancer, you would not care WHO had the cure. Been there, done that.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
You might want to think about a new hobby if doing either of those strains your time or patience.
Point me to the manual for setting up the tivo to play mp3/ogg through my stereo, download and play video off the internet, burn audio cds, vcds, and dvds, and play roms for all my favourite arcade and nes games right on my tv. Otherwise stfu about your ideas on what I should be doing with my free time.
do not read this line twice.
6 dollars a month for the rest of your life. Even if you need to buy all new hardware, thats a payback time of 1-2 years. At worst the time to do it will add another year to that. Plus you'll never need to buy a new pc. If you want the latest cool feature, just update the software. Thats a much better deal than a Tivo IMO. Besides, I hate being nickle and dimed by recurring payments. And I don't want to pay for a lifetime contract, what if Tivo goes out of business?
That stated- Microsoft would not be my software of choice. I'd go Myth TV or the like.
I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
Using a computer to replace a Tivo *is* rather silly. Using a computer to replace a CD player, DVD player, and Tivo plus provide Newsfeeds weather maps, video conferencing, create DVDs of your favorite shows and more not to mention provide that content to any room in your home isn't.
Besides the hurdles involved, I think the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) plays a bigger part than we think about. I tried the TV on PC thing, and when it crashed in the middle of a show, or I had to use the computer and she wanted to watch something.... Yeah, I still use Tivo for TV and my PC for PC. ;)
The MCE box is a general-purpose WIndows XP machine, so you can use it as a web browser, email terminal, and game machine. ... Of course, the downside of this is that you have to keep your MCE up to date on patches and fixes-- something that might be an unwanted hassle for people who don't live patch management every day.
So as long as you keep it disconnected from the internet, you are better off until MS figures out how to deliver TCP/IP safety to the masses. The MCE is feature rich and aimed towards providing a full entertainment control center for audio components (AF/FM CD/TAPE/Record Player/Digital jukebox) as well as video components (PVR/Tuner/DVD Player/Digital jukebox). The internet connectivity or broadband cable/satellite are going to be part of the experience too. So Microsoft is going to have to address the security problems to make this fully marketable. It is not going to do well if it has a big sticker that says "Warning: do not connect to the Internet".
Have you Meta Moderated t
I will always support Tivo in the Tivo vs. MCE case for the soul reason of giving M$ my business...
Q.Tivo does not let you take your shows with you on your laptop. The cure for cancer is nice but can I please take the cure with me on the road?
I.A."Not interested in your microsoft lifestyle."
(I.A. ignorant answer)
You realize that they bought Visio right? I mean that last few versions have been put out by Microsoft, but I haven't seen that many enhancements.
6 dollars a month for the rest of your life. Even if you need to buy all new hardware, thats a payback time of 1-2 years.
Wow, $144 for a new PVR-ready computer?
Dont get me wrong, a MythTV setup is much more expansive then tivo, but you can get Tivo and 5 years listings for the price.
I was considering moving to Linux (yes, I use Windows, no, I've never had a virus) and looked at MythTV to replace everything that comes with the ATI All-in-Wonder that I have, but when reading the documentation, found out it didn't work with my card (or any of the All in Wonders). I'm a college student with limited space, and I can't justify not using a $200 piece of hardware.
Well, what about those of us whose lives are computers (even if those people are few and far between nowadays)? Those of us who really enjoy these things, work with them on a daily basis, and like to be constructive? For us, it's more than simply what you get--it's what you put IN. It's about that satisfaction you get from seeing tangible results from your efforts in the things you love. Anyone who's passionate about anything understands this, and that's why there are people who will spend the time, money, and effort to build their own box than buying the TiVo.
"Each time you smile, it'll only last awhile. Life may be scary, but it's only temporary."
Where can I buy a MythTV box?
GPL Deconstructed
um if two companies had the cure, i would choose the least evil one of them.
(if the cures were identical)
just cause you've been there done that, doesnt give you the insight into this hypothetical situation
It's not my idea of a fun time to manually look at the TV schedule, figure out what shows I want to see, decide if I've seen that episode already or not, then program the VCR.
I find it easier to tell the PVR to always record a show, then it always gets done for me. Never have to think about it again.
And you don't have to worry about replacing the tapes, rewinding them, making sure everything is set.
And can a VCR pause live TV, then resume? Does it provide a EPG (electronic programming guide)?
These are why PVR's exist. Using a VCR for the same purpose is not a valid option.
It may work fine for me, but if the whole family has to use it, it had better work perfectly 99.95% of the time. Features are wonderful, but if it doesn't work when you wife presses the "do this" button on the remote twice in a three month period, you may as well have purchased a rock with flashing lights on it.
MediaPCs are still for hobbiests interested in playing around, not for consumer use.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
The broadcast flag and the INDUCE act are infringing on consumer's rights. That is a lot worse than the legal attacks on P2P software. They must be stopped.
Mathematics is not a crime.
I heartily agree that the TiVo beats the competition hands down.
I built an HTPC a while back. It was a fun project. But ultimately I abandoned it.
When I want to crash on the couch after a long day I do *NOT* want to deal with device driver problems, or Windows Update due to latest security problem, or someone has installed a new game on the DoEverythingDevice and borked it.
I just wanna watch TV man. At it's specific task the TiVo kicks ass. Anyone who tries to lay a whole bunch of extra features on it has now added a whole host of new ways it can go kaboom. A TiVo can be had as little as $99 now, and is well worth it IMHO.
Another 100 bucks for a VGA-TV converter, since I know of no video cards with RCA out that work under linux.
... and the IVTV drivers work well. The 350 has composite and s-video outputs, along with analog stereo.
Happauge PVR-350
Don't especially like the monthly fee, but it does stuff I didn't even dream of in a PVR. Like MOVING the recording of a first-run show (the Dead Zone) from Sunday night to tonight in order to accomodate something else I asked it to record. All without needing to bother me with the details. I doubt MythTV does that.
I am mighty impressed with the folks writing the software at TiVo - it's all pretty slick, and JUST WORKS. No glitches, no gotchas, no excuses. That's what you need with the wife and kids using it.
There is a model of Tivo that includes a DVD burner. It works with DVD-R or DVD-RW discs, so you could just spin a bunch of shows off onto a reusable disc and take it with you.