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Does Your Company Pay For Broadband?

masq57 writes "My fellow administrators and I used to have company provided ISDN lines in our homes so that we could respond quickly to issues after hours. That was changed in the last few years to letting us expense our broadband service. Now our new CIO has elected to stop that benefit using the argument that we should be dedicated staff who desire to be responsive and should do what it takes to make that happen. The rumor now is that we should also pay for blackberries, cell phones and pagers. What sort of experiences do the rest of slashdotters have along these lines?"

35 of 1,125 comments (clear)

  1. Easy one. by vegetablespork · · Score: 5, Insightful
    You don't work from home, you don't carry a pager, and you don't give them your cell phone number. If they don't want to pay for the means of contacting you, they can try your answering machine and hope for the best.

    Next thing's to work on finding an employer that isn't run by such cheap bastards.

    --

    Call (206) 338-5780 COLLECT for information about a genuine BA, BS, MA, MS, MBA, or Ph.D.

    1. Re:Easy one. by Overzeetop · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I can't add much, but I don't have mod points, but this is such a good FP, I just had to chime in with a "me too" post.

      What the company used to give you was, to some extent, a benefit to partially compensate you for your availability. They have chosen to reduce your benfits. You make the call.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    2. Re:Easy one. by rindeee · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I agree. You'll find out how important it is when you don't have any of them...for work purposes anyway. Sounds like management is a little out of touch with reality.

    3. Re:Easy one. by keybsnbits · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I totally agree, but your solution isn't a realistic one. That's only a great way to LOSE your job. The best thing for companies to do is to pay for any cell phone charges that were caused by after hours work. If they are really generous, they could also pay for a percentage of your internet cost if you use it from home. Either that, or just write it off as "needed for work" for tax purposes ;)

    4. Re:Easy one. by DaHat · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Ahh the words of an hourly worker.

      How I miss those days... walking towards the time clock, thinking of what I'd do the next day, punching out and moving onto personal things for the evening and not having work come to mind until the next morning just after I punched in.

      When one is a salary man, a bit more is expected, within reason (which is the key).

    5. Re:Easy one. by wyseguy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You don't work from home, you don't carry a pager, and you don't give them your cell phone number. If they don't want to pay for the means of contacting you, they can try your answering machine and hope for the best.

      I pretty much have that arrangement with my employer. Fortunately, my boss and I have the same opinions about that level of 24x7 support, that if you aren't willing to provide the means to contact the employee and provide them the access to the systems at work from home, then you can't expect them to be on call all the time. Since our IT head won't even allow FTP access to our webservers, I won't be working from home any time soon.

      --
      Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
    6. Re:Easy one. by kannibal_klown · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It depends...

      If you're a Unix admin or Oracle admin, and your job is to keep those things running 24 / 7 / 365, you better be reachable or you won't be working.

      Sure, if your a Systems Analyst or Software developer, it's not big deal. I doubt it would be an issue.

      But many companies stipulate you MUST keep the servers running all day, period. So, if a server goes down or something goes wrong, it's either get out of bed or get into the unemployment line.

      I knew a DBA that would get calls at 3 or 4 AM. She hated it, REALLY hated it, but she knew she had to do it.

      Sure, some companies won't care so much if Oracle crashes at 9PM or an intranet site is up. But some need / want them running all day, everyday.

    7. Re:Easy one. by unclejeb · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Greed has something to do with it not just being in trouble. I work for a financial firm that has done better than its peers during the downturn for the last few years. The board got a 21% raise, we all took cuts and on-call pay went away. This was done largely because the market was in their favor as jobs were tight.

      --
      "Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right." - Isaac Asimov
    8. Re:Easy one. by vegetablespork · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I think part of this has to do with the terms of employment to start with--if you're told up front, "We need to get you 24x7, and you'll be expected to carry a pager, and no, we won't pay for it" and you still take the job, that's one thing (and an unreimbursed employee business expense that's deductible after a certain threshold, but IANATA (tax advisor) and I digress).

      But it's another thing entirely for an employer to provide those devices with the expectation that you'll be reachable, then to say "you're now responsible for paying for this stuff. And, oh, by the way, you still need to be reachable 24x7." At that point, it's time to question why they've suddenly become so tightfisted and to look for employment at someplace more financially stable, more considerate of their staff, or, ideally, both.

      --

      Call (206) 338-5780 COLLECT for information about a genuine BA, BS, MA, MS, MBA, or Ph.D.

    9. Re:Easy one. by ackthpt · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I agree. You'll find out how important it is when you don't have any of them...for work purposes anyway. Sounds like management is a little out of touch with reality.

      Sounds like an exec is getting a bonus for reducing expenses. Do you want to pay for his/her bonus?

      It's understandable if you're in a trade that requires you to bring your own tools to work, but IT work doesn't sound like it, particularly if you read EULAs and take them literally for something you personally bought but use to advance the goals of commercial concern. If it's not in the terms of your employment to provide your own tools, do what I do and say (truthfully in some cases) I don't have it and I'm not buying it with my own money.

      Best of luck, hopefully your boss isn't a dickhead and tries to sack you for insubordination.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    10. Re:Easy one. by Jhon · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Let me 'chime in' myself.

      I work for a mid-sized medical lab that STARTED as a very small niche lab.

      I bent over backwards to make myself valuable to my employer. That includes web accessable alpha paging (straight to my cell phone) and cell access. PLUS support from home/vacations. This was all at my expense.

      The downside: It costs me money every month.

      The upside: Tax write-off, greater asset to my employer, was able to jump on any major problems BEFORE they effected employee productivity.

      Here I am 5 years later earning 4x my starting wage (which wasn't too bad to start with) and I'm the manager of my dept. Further, I may be on a 'leash', but I have incredible amounts of flexability. Twice a week over summer, I leave for a 2.5 hour lunch and spend it with my son (park, catch, arcade, whatever). Whats that worth to some people? For me it's priceless. (Of course that 7 hour drive up the coast from LA to Oakland xmas-eve sucked -- but I made it back before my kids were woke up xmas morning! (I drove to make SURE I didn't get stuck at the airport)).

      It all depends on your 'situation'. Plus, working for a privately owned company vs. a heartless evil corporation is a major asset -- and humans appricate effort more than faceless 'boardrooms'. ymmv.

    11. Re:Easy one. by m.h.2 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      OK, Here's where we technology (and plenty of other salaried) workers screwed ourselves and need to make amends. During the 1990's we put in extra hours because of the incentives that came with those hours. I personally never worked fewer than 12 hours per day and was on call for 24 for 12 years. Ultimately, what did it get me? Unemployment for a year. I started a new job (salaried, management) in January of this year and set the bar from the onset. I work 8.5 hours per day. No cell phone, no pager. On the weekend, I'm on my time. When I take a vacation day, I'm on my time. No calls, no email. Plain and simple. If you are valuable enough to your company for the 40 hours that you are actually paid to be there, then there is no reason for them to replace you because you're not available to work when you're not being paid to do so. "Salaried Employee" does not mean "Indentured Servant." The whole "a bit more is expected" line is bullshit. The "bit more" is the experience and knowledge that I bring to the table, not the sacrifice of my personal life. In the end, it's still just a job and could be gone tomorrow. Why should I let it suck my life dry today?

    12. Re:Easy one. by SIGALRM · · Score: 5, Insightful

      and I also don't put as many hours in at night

      Unfortunately, the breed of company that will ask you to pay for your own equipment will probably also penalize your advancement opportunities because you don't put in a 60-hour work week like the rest of the "committed" employees.

      --
      Sigs cause cancer.
    13. Re:Easy one. by Idarubicin · · Score: 5, Funny
      Good sex, comfortable shoes, and a warm place to go to the bathroom...that's all I need.

      If my job had that as a fringe benefit, I'd be willing to pay for my own broadband, too.

      --
      ~Idarubicin
    14. Re:Easy one. by Soruk · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'm in the UK, and got myself a second phone number for my cellphone from Second Number. It sometimes points to my cellphone, it sometimes routes to an answerphone. And it costs me nothing to have or use. :)

      --
      -- Soruk
    15. Re:Easy one. by Casualposter · · Score: 5, Interesting

      If you're good enough, you can tell them to provide the tools to do the job or they won't get it done. The folks who will bend to such obviously stupid management by terror tactics are not good enough to walk out and get a job. Somebody is always hiring somewhere. You may have to move, but you can find another job. Just do so before you quit.

      This is going on in my company. I put in my 50 hours and that's what they get. My department has lost two techs and we've not been allowed to replace them, because the owner doesn't want to spend the money. So when he calls and wants to know why X project is not done, I explain it to him. I even use small words to be sure he understands. So far, no problem.

      In a time of limited resources, the management has to set the priorities. Your personal time is not a part of the pay check and is not "Negotiable" no matter what Mr, MBA wants you to think. When they want you to pay out of your pocket, you decide what you are willing to do and then do it. Put in reasonable hours and move on.

      --
      Creative Spelling Copyright (2002). May use without Persimmons
  2. Consider it a pay cut... by LostCluster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In my experience, it's been assumed that IT pros would have home Internet access because, well, what IT pro wouldn't have at least a consumer dial-up account if not broadband.

    Paying for those things is a company's way of passing the employee some cash-value compensation without it being considered taxable income. So, add 20%-30% (depending on your personal tax rate) to the cost and consider that as have been subtracted from your pay package... consider yourself insulted.

  3. Easy one by Skyshadow · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Anything I pay for doesn't get used for business. Period.

    Aside from that, this might be a good sign that it's time to start looking around for another job. This isn't 2002 anymore -- employers who still think they can get away with this sort of shit are wrong, wrong, wrong.

    --
    Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
    1. Re:Easy one by Ford+Prefect · · Score: 5, Funny

      Anything I pay for doesn't get used for business. Period.

      Clothes?

      --
      Tedious Bloggy Stuff - hooray?
    2. Re:Easy one by Gzip+Christ · · Score: 5, Funny
      Anything I pay for doesn't get used for business. Period.
      Clothes?
      Especially clothes. You should show up to work with progressively less clothing on each day until your boss figures out why clothing your work-nerds is a very necessary business expense. If they threaten to fire you, tell them that you are no longer able to find clothing large enough to fit you because you are so large as to be disabled and then they will get in a panic about firing a disabled person and decide to instead buy you a mumu or a tent to cover your shame.
    3. Re:Easy one by severoon · · Score: 5, Funny

      I had this happen at a previous company. But I was smart about it--I planned on writing off every dime I paid for work-related expenses. This turns out to be very difficult to do if you use your personal items part of the time for business and part of the time for personal use. So the only logical conclusion: get separate items you can use 100% for business, and that way you can write those off 100% without fear of getting audited by the IRS. When I explained this to my manager, she balked but I asked if they would allow me to expense professional tax services (around $400/year) and she said no. The upshot is, when they tell you to pay for these things out of your own pocket, you can choose to do it any way you want to...after all, it's your money, right? :)

      I had good cell service and an awesome broadband connection already...so I couldn't justify spending a lot on a second cell and Internet connection, which was necessary for the aforementioned tax purposes. I found a cell provider that had a pay-as-you-go plan...use no minutes that month, and pay no money other than a $1.95 monthly service charge to keep the account open...and I got a free cell phone to boot for signing up (there was like a $50 activation fee, but I was allowed to expense this based on the argument that I already had a cell, I was only doing this for tax purposes and the good of the company, so I didn't want to pay a second activation fee). By deferring to choose a plan that included any minutes, I effectively had a zero minute plan that shuttled all callers directly to voicemail (I would explain that I couldn't afford a lot of minutes, and I couldn't afford a plan for the business phone that included a lot of minutes...and oh yea, I signed a three year contract so no changies! Unless the company wants to let me expense the $150 early termination fee). The good thing is my voicemail could be picked up on the web or forwarded to my email in the form of a wav file, so I didn't need to spend minutes checking it.

      This didn't work out so well, so ultimately my manager agreed to deal with my situation as a special case and allow me to expense an inexpensive fixed minute plan. But wouldn't ya know it...just as soon as one thing is addressed, another takes its place! It turns out that the free cell phone I got with the plan had a set of expensive, proprietary batteries that easily set a memory. Little did I know! But within a few weeks of having the phone, the one set of batteries it came with would only go about 5 minutes on a full charge. I was allowed to expense another set for around $80, but those quickly set the same memory at around 5 minutes of talk time. I just couldn't remember to fully cycle those things before charging them for the life of me!

      I found a 9600bps modem in my dad's basement and was able to find a service provider that offered very cheap 24kbps connections...the downside of course is that it would drop the connection every few minutes, but what do you expect for $3.95/month? Fortunately, the ISP also provided an email inbox/forwarding service so I could keep the separation between my personal and business life very clean and clear for the IRS. Unfortunately, that forwarding service never seemed to work! And that was unfortunate because that's where all those voicemails from my cell service were getting forwarded to. Oh well!

      I felt that since the business cell and the dialup account were purely for business it was completely justified for me to make all research, purchase, setup, and customer support calls from the office during the normal workday. I quickly learned that even the simplest of issues can be quite time-consuming to deal with over the phone. If things got too busy at work, some showstopping problem on my cell plan or dial-up account might not get dealt with for weeks! Finally, I had to schedule several-hour long appointments with myself in Microsoft Outlook to make these support calls and get these problems sorted out. And I did generate a lot of suppo

      --
      but have you considered the following argument: shut up.
  4. Typical by retinaburn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yes you should be happy to do it, if you were a happy employee. Simply outline that while they want you to innovate, to give your all for the company, to make them better than their competitors, then they should be willing to do the same for you.

    Tell them that if they treat you 'competitively' to what other companies are doing, then you will either work as hard as other employees or find a company that treats you better than they do.

    We are going through the same thing here, and there is nothing worse than cutting back on employee benefits, pay, and perks and justifying it by saying 'we are doing what everyone else is doing'.

  5. Cancel all of it then. by OS24Ever · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It'd probably help if everyone did it, but if they won't pay for it I don't use it for business. Not that I'd ever get rid of my broadband at home but that's another matter.

    My employer will pay for broadband, cell phone but not pager (what's the point? text messages cover paging) for employees it considers mobile which is almost everyone outside of our main sites. Some areas even get better broadband rates because of deals negotiated due to the amount of employees we have.

    --

    As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.

  6. What a crock. by pclminion · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Now our new CIO has elected to stop that benefit using the argument that we should be dedicated staff who desire to be responsive and should do what it takes to make that happen.

    Your CIO sounds like an asshole. "Dedicated" means dedicated to the work, not dedicated to spending money for your own company. (Hint to CIO: People work to get paid money. Not to spend money for their employers.) If the company needs you to have internet access to do your job, they should pay for it.

    Any company which demands you restructure your own personal finances in order to be able to afford an internet connection that they require you to have had their head up their ass. Your personal finances are none of their fucking business. I realize it's much easier said than done, but if I were in your position and had such demands placed on me, I'd quit.

    Put this arrogant prick in his place. All of you should collectively refuse to pay for broadband yourselves, and let him see how "productive" you are without his help. It is not your reponsiblity to spend your own money for "the good of the company."

    What a crock of shit.

    1. Re:What a crock. by ralf1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yep - The guys a cheap bastard The first time you are trying to support a VP on an issue from the house, and its taking forever, make sure you tell him "This would be a lot quicker if I had broadband, but the CIO took it away from all the support staff" See how quick you get it back.

      --
      "Would you, could you, with a goat?" Dr Seuss
  7. Company won't pay ... by lintocs · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The place you're working for is a sinking ship ... they've run out of cash, and they're trying to download the costs of doing business on to their employees. Having lived through the dot.com bomb, I've seen this thing a half dozen times. If you don't play ball, you'll get bad reviews, and you'll eventually be dismissed for your "poor attitude". Better start looking for a new gig. S

  8. Make it happen! by xTown · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When you're in the office, that is. Tell him you are absolutely, positively dedicated to providing your company the best possible service during working hours.

    When you're at home, your time is your own, unless they're paying you extra. If your job is not like that, it's time to find a new job. "It's your job, suck it up," is not an appropriate response here; you're a human being, not a disposable resource to be used up.

    Your CIO needs to show YOU that he's dedicated to having the best possible service available, and that he's willing to dedicate the resources to ensure it. If he wants 24-hour cell phone availability, he better be paying for the phone. If they're going to require you to use your own resources to perform your job, then they should at the VERY least reimburse you on a prorated schedule for the amount of time you spend using your net connection from home. Even if it's only a couple of bucks a month--hell, especially if it's only a couple of bucks a month.

    As it is, all he's showing you is that you're not worth a goddamn unless they can squeeze every last drop out of you that they possibly can.

  9. Reading between the lines by secolactico · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Now our new CIO has elected to stop that benefit using the argument that we should be dedicated staff who desire to be responsive and should do what it takes to make that happen. The rumor now is that we should also pay for blackberries, cell phones and pagers.

    What your new CIO is not telling you is that your department budget has been cut back and they are no longer able to pay for your broadband. If they won't let you itemize your broadband connection, ask if you can itemize dialup connection and phone costs for every call you have to make for business reasons.

    If you have to be on-call, then they should at least reimburse you for cell phone/pagers costs. I'm not sure about blackberries, tho.

    My company pays for my broadband and whenever I'm on-call, they pay for my cell phone costs and they provide the pagers. They also pay overtime for on-call related work, but my personal policy is, if I don't have to leave my house, I don't charge them. Also, they usually understand that if I stay up half the night soving a problem (from home or at the office), I'll probably be late for work in the morning and tend to look the other way.

    How is your company's overall situation? Are finances suffering? Read between the lines on what your boss told you and figure out wether it's safe to protest or you should simply start thinking about employment elsewhere.

    Disclaimer: IANAL, YMMV, caveat emptor, boni anima teuri amen, and all that.

    --
    No sig
  10. Safe Auto internet by secondsun · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Essentially institute a "safe auto" contact policy. You have an answering machine on your home phone number that they can call when they need you. You have, as far as they are concerend, no cellphone, pager, blackberry, or non corporate internet. If they send you an email you will get it when you are at work. I can not think of a single profession where there is a similar situation. Do construction works have a BYOB policy (Bring your own Backhoe)? No then why should 24/7 IT guys (which is what your company wants) have a BYOB (Bring your own broadband) expectation?

    --
    There is nothing wrong with being gay. It's getting caught where the trouble lies.
  11. Re:Cell phone unlisted. by AxemRed · · Score: 5, Funny

    Always respond to unexpected after-hours calls with, "I have been drinking, and I can't drive."

  12. pagers, cell... by br00tus · · Score: 5, Insightful
    If my company didn't buy me a pager or cell phone I wouldn't carry one. I once worked at a company that wanted my credit card number for the cell phone. I told them I didn't have a credit card, which was true. They got one for me anyhow.

    There is a collective struggle between workers and owners (and their proxies, bosses). This series of events shows the subjective weakening power of the workers side here. They want you to pay for the privilege of being a 24/7 on-call wage slave. There's not much you can do as an individual, although if your company gets worse than industry average you can split.

    What you can do is band together with other IT workers and educate and organize. You may remember recently there was a desire to retract the FLSA laws from even moe people. Most IT people legally have no right to overtime anyhow, despite the 19th century battles for an eight hour day. In fact, your time is now around-the-clock, and at your expense. Communicating and organizing with organizations like TechsUnite, the Programmers Guild, Washtech and whatnot will keep you appraised of these things. The ITAA, the IT owners lobbying group, has been lobbying in Washington DC for years, and was flooding newspapers with stories of IT labor shortages in the late 1990s. This has been a common industry tactic - industries used to flood newspapers with stories of labor shortages in the early 20th century, which newspapers like the Industrial Worker used to mock.

    The two big factors in the struggle are hours worked and pay per hour. Employers always are trying to expand hours worked, workers if they have any power are trying to reduce the number of required hours. In terms of pay per hour, the fight is over how much of the wealth you create, and workers create all the wealth, goes to you in wages, and what percentage goes to the owner in profit.

    Something people say is companies are getting tighter due to the economy, as if political economy was something completely alien from people like the weather. On the contrary, employers felt their expected rate of profit was falling in 2000 so they stopped capital spending, thereby creating unemployment, which drives down wages. They do this until their expected profit rate comes into their expectation range again.

  13. Re:A little of this, a little of that by FFFish · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Go figure. *shrug*" is exactly what's gone wrong in the workforce.

    Will you *shrug* your way to 60 hour work weeks, pay increases that don't keep up with the cost of living, purchasing your own software, paying for any equipment repairs?

    Will you *shrug* your way back into the conditions that made unionism necessary in the first place?

    --

    --
    Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
  14. Re:Cell phone unlisted. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    As a developer, the one time I got a support call I answered with "I drunk, but whadehell I'll try" then proceeded to screw up the system into "must recover from backup" state. They never called me after hours again, strange that...

    -hadohk

  15. BUT..... by DesScorp · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That was YOUR choice. You volunteered to do those things, and at a startup, it was recognized and appreciated. This guy's boss is just cheap. It's more of the same old mentality: Let's squeeze as much profit and productivity from these people as we can without spending any money on them. And if they balk, hint at layoffs.

    He may not have any choice, but his piece of mind will be greatly increased if he can find another job with reasonable superiors. The ones he has now are making unreasonable demands at his fiscal expense.

    --
    Life is hard, and the world is cruel
  16. Of course your boss "loves" you. by Saeed+al-Sahaf · · Score: 5, Insightful
    She gets 24x7 support, and I get my freedom.

    Yup, you sure do.

    You get the "freedom" to come in on the 4th of July to work on someone else's server.

    You get the "freedom" to spend your money on work related Internet.

    You get the "freedom" to spend your money on work related cell phone minutes.

    And for what? To be treated like a professional? Wouldn't you rather be compensated like a professional?

    Where I work, we have what's called "leave days", and when we need to take leave, we do, it's why they give them to us. When we are sick, we take "sick days", we don't have to ask, that's what they give them to us for. If work requires us to be on a pager, they supply it, common sense says it's their responsibility.

    I'm very sure your boss "loves" you. But as for me, I don't own the company, I require compensation for my work. And, because I work for professionals, they treat me as a professional, without asking me to shell out a lot of cash for the privilege.

    --
    "Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck