Bobby Fischer Found

paulydavis writes "Former world chess champion Bobby Fischer, wanted since 1992 for playing a tournament in Yugoslavia despite U.N. sanctions, was detained in Japan for an apparent passport violation and will be deported to the United States."

Comments

Changed the view of the US?

[garcia]

Radio Interview from 9/11/2001.

While I disagree with just about everything he has to say he did mention (paraphrase) "now that the Cold War is over and now they want to wipe me out because I am useless." He's probably right. The USSR was using their hand picked superstars (athletes mostly) to make their country seem superior. Bobby Fischer certainly made the US look much better than usual in that regard, but he has the view that he single-handedly changed the view of the United States from a baseball and football (US) country to one of intellectuals... This I just don't agree with. Maybe for that brief moment in time (1972). It's certainly not considered that now (or in 2001).

Re:Changed the view of the US?

[TopShelf]

Maybe for that brief moment in time (1972). It's certainly not considered that now (or in 2001).

Oh, just give that Jeopardy guy a chance. By the time he tops $10 million, the country will be teeming with Brainiac wannabes...

Re:Changed the view of the US?

[AsbestosRush]

Pardon while I feed the troll...

and we understand that upper class tax cuts may provide a temporary "high" but will only lead to misery later on.

Document this, and I *might* believe it.

I don't know of a single person who doesn't want to keep more $$$ in their pocket. Those that make the most $$$ generally (not always, but generally) create jobs by doing one of two things:
1. Becoming a consumer. These people purchase things that have to be manufactured, or want services that can only be met by someone else.
2. Creating a business.

Creating jobs broadens the tax base. Where's the loss for your "big government" needs there?

Re:Changed the view of the US?

[Otter]

Well I had never heard of him before this.

At the time, though, he was very widely known. Not quite "Miracle On Ice" level, maybe, although Fischer may in fact have higher name recognition than Mike Eruzione or Ken Morrow. Certainly they made a movie about Fischer first.

It's amazing how poor people's memory can be, but the image of the Soviet Union as a nuclear-armed Bulgaria was created purely in hindsight. Fischer was before my time, but I'm old enough to remember be lectured about how we lazy, stupid American kids were doomed in the face of Soviet schoolchildren studying hours of astrophysics every day before heading off to physical training that exceeded what NFL players did back then. I was a bit startled when Russian children started arriving in our school. (Mostly Jewish emigres whose parents had served time.) I was "This is what they keep scaring us over?"

Re:Changed the view of the US?

[lpp]

And the toss it in the bank to earn interest.

And the bank gets the money to pay the interest by loaning the money out.

And the money goes out in the form of business loans, home loans, car loans, personal loans, lines of credit and so forth.

The homes are bought and money goes out to various individuals related to that industry. And the cars are bought likewise. And the personal loans are taken out to pay for various things around the house or what not. And the lines of credit likewise.

And the business loans? The business loans pay for new equipment (which will operated by new employees) and new buildings (which will be occupied by new employees) and new employees, which will.. erm.. right.

Anyway, while I'm not convinced about trickle down theory myself, to simply stop and say "Well, they toss it in the bank and that's it" is a bit short sighted.

Re:Changed the view of the US?

[Anonymous Coward]

Unless Bill puts his money underneath his mattress, or buries it in the back yard, then the money is out in the economic system. And poor people tend to spend their money poorly, like lottery tickets, and another Dale Earnhardt commemorative plate, "I can't guarantee the plate will go up in value, but all the other ones have."

Re:Changed the view of the US?

[torpor]

Whether we won a chess tournament shouldn't contribute to that; I admire chess as a game or sport, but it is hardly an indicator of the intellectual capacity of a nation.


what you and your american grandparent (post) are failing to understand, entirely, is that this is a conversation about propaganda, and ways in which fischer was used as a propagandist tool, in that era.

in such a realm, none of the bold, assertive, we-are-the-best american 'facts' you and your brethren spout forth, have -any- bearing whatsoever. propaganda is not a 'truth' realm, its not about whats real.

it amazes me today that americans -still- know nothing about propaganda, and fail to accomodate it continually in their dialectic views of anything that might be 'anti-american'.

whether or not america 'is the best' at anything, at the time of the fischer (propaganda) project, the fact is: general, popular culture, in realms all over the world, had a pretty dim view of american 'thuggery' and whether the holy american system really was any better than communism/socialism.

fischer was not just about soviet-era 'games' (which we all know americans will always, always win, at), it was also about softening peoples upset over such things as vietnam, korea, etc... remember kids: the cold war was certainly not just between the soviets and the capitalists.

propaganda. learn it, or suffer under its ever-dominant rule, its a religion holier even than The American Way ...

Re:Changed the view of the US?

[RevAaron]

No joke. One of the reasons the wealthy are wealthy is that they know how to save. How to put their money somewhere it gains interest, be it the bank or the market.

Re:Changed the view of the US?

[Lumpy]

Huh? you obviousally never played a round of Australian Rules Football.

That is the most civilized and intelectual game ever invented.

Most of the players can identify almost all human internal organs and bones just by looking at them lying there on the playing field.

Re:Changed the view of the US?

[Amarok.Org]

I know what you're really saying; the rest of the world thinks we are loud, crass, and uncivil. They think so because we come with more common sense and know-how, and we call things like they are.

Yes, the rest of the word sees us as loud, crass, and uncivil. It's not, however, because we have common sense or know-how.

(FWIW I'm an American, quite proudly)

Travel somewhere else in the world where Americans travel or vacation. Pick a quiet bench somewhere and just watch. It's quite easy to spot the Americans, generally. They're loud, crass, and uncivil. As a stereotype, they tend to expect and demand status in their new locale simply based on their classification as "American". "I'm an American," they boast loudly to anyone who will listen. The fact is, no one really cares. Of course we have a long list of accomplishments to be proud of - but it doesn't give us the right to disregard foriegn cultures or customs - particularly when we're IN that culture.

There's a reason the average American tourist gets treated poorly or at least indifferently in most countries - we don't make the effort to be sensitive to the environment we're in. There's a certain swagger Americans like to put on while travelling and it's quite insulting to the locals. We as a country get branded as loud-mouthed hicks, because those are the people that are most visible. If only more Americans would grab their own kind and say "Shut up, you're in someone else's country, be respectful," Americans would have a better reputation. It all comes down to respect. As Americans we're taught from day one that we're the superior, chosen country - and the weaker minded often try to remind the rest of the world of it too.

All it takes to change this perception is respect - respect your own country enough to make a good impression, and respect your hosts enough to play by their cultural rules. If you don't like their cultural rules, go back home.

Re:Changed the view of the US?

[Tassach]

One of the reasons the wealthy are wealthy is that they know how to save

Yeah, it's easy to save 10% of your income when you're making $250K/yr, can afford to hire a top-notch tax advisor and can afford to put thousands of dollars into tax shelters. It's a bit more difficult to save 10% of your income when you're making $25K/yr and you have kids to support. The guy making $250K can save $25K a year effortlessly, with zero impact on his family's standard of living. The guy making $25K can save $2.5K a year but doing so will seriously hurt his family's standard of living.

Re:Changed the view of the US?

[clary]

Tax cuts are a "temporary high" because they must be met by either lower government spending in the future, undoing 1., or higher interests rates and higher interest payments to non-US residents, undoing 2.

Discussion of tax cuts always seem to ignore a crucial factor: the tax rate before the cut. From what information I have been able to gather in my feeble, non-economist research, the tax rate cuts of Reaganomics were followed by an increase in tax revenue. (Reagan spent that and more, but that is another story.)

Anyway, look at it this way. What will be the total revenue if the tax rate were 0 percent? Zero. What will be the total revenue if the tax rate were 100 percent? I can guarantee you that tax revenue from my lazy ass would also be zero in that case. If you are trying to maximize revenue, then there is a sweet spot someplace in between. (Whether maximizing revenue should be the goal is also another discussion.)

A serious discussion of taxes must consider what should be the absolute tax rate. Republicans want to lower tax rates? Make them tell you what is their ideal tax rate for each income level. Democrats say tax cuts are irresponsible? Make them tell you what rates for each income level would be appropriate.

Re:Changed the view of the US?

[Brian_Ellenberger]

But let's say Bill Gates gets a tax cut (or some other wealthy businessman). Does this mean the Microsoft will hire more people? Not likely. MS has billions in cash, they can hire whoever they like. Bill's a smart guy - MS hires people when they need people, not when they have more cash. This can be applied to any large wealthy company.

Two points:

A) If you have extra cash you can afford to invest in new projects which requires hiring new people. If you are short on cash then your more careful about new projects. If you have a very large amount of cash you can afford to blow it on risky R&D.

B) More importantly, in my opinion, is the fact that the more money the government controls the more powerful it becomes---and a government which is too powerful is something to be feared. IMHO, most of the posters on Slashdot lack a healthy fear of the government. The government is the ultimate monopoly---one that can arbitrarily increase its income, has a large standing army, and can come in at any time and take away your freedom.

The more money and power the government has, the more people rely on it, the more it will control our lives. Once the government gets too large and people become too reliant then not even democracy will help since those in power can simply use that reliance to defeat anyone who wishes to change things.

Brian Ellenberger

Re:Changed the view of the US?

[dogbowl]

While I can't deny *everything* you've said, the traits you mentioned above certainly are not unique to Amercians.

Try watching Japanese tourists sometime, or British kids somewhere on the continent to watch a soccer match.

Citizens of every country think they're superior. (and apparently you think so of yourself too)

Re:Changed the view of the US?

[Deathlizard]

In the case of Bill Gates, most of his wealth is tied to the stock market, where he heavily invests. That's why he lost a ton of his wealth when the stock market blew up in 2000.

If he did get some sort of tax cut, it is safe to say that most of it would be invested. Since it's being invested, whatever company he invests in, and not necessiarly Microsoft mind you, would get a benefit and they would be creating the jobs.

It drives me nuts that people actually believe that the rich are all like "Scrooge Mc'Duck" and have a huge 5 story safe where they put all the money in. That may be true for some rich eccentrics, but most wealthy entrepreneurs tend to invest a majority of their wealth in the stock market for the long term.

Re:Changed the view of the US?

[Art_XIV]

A few years ago I spent several months working with a developer who was from Russia. Being a bit of a xenophile, I regularly questioned him regarding Russian life, politics, culture, etc, and was even able to explain a few curiosities of American culture to him.

One day during lunch we found out that we had both been in the Army (not the same Army) at the same time, back when there was still a Cold War. I began to chuckle over the propoganda that the Army endeavored to instill in myself and my fellow soldiers. We had the impression that the Soviets were a bunch of automatons with no respect for human life that were just waiting to go war for any reason. How the Soviets were just dying to use chemical and/or nuclear weapons!

Sergei began to laugh, too, and said 'That's the same sort of thing that they used to tell us about you Americans.'

Re:Changed the view of the US?

[Slime-dogg]

Whoah. Bush is fun to make fun of. It doesn't actually reflect the effectiveness of his governance, nor does his propensity to attract jokes reflect the rebound that our economy has had... He's just easy to make fun of. Nearly every president is.

I'd say that more people have a problem with Ashcroft than Bush, even though John is the result of George's decision-making process. I'd say that Bush has really only made a couple of mistakes:

1. Telling us that there were WMD in Iraq, and that's why we should attack. He should have just told us outright that Suddam was dangerous to everyone, exposed his and France's cheating ways, and then gone after him. Of course, this would be after the whole Afghanistan thing is done. Military action, though politically dangerous, is usually beneficial to the economy, nationalism, and unification of citizens.
2. Putting the power-hungry Ashcroft into his position. The department of homeland defence is sort of redundant, since we're supposed to have a fully functional NSA and FBI. I think Bush was just goaded into creating the new department, but I didn't hear any bitching in opposition at the time.

Everything else... his big ears, his horrible handling of the English language, his slips of the tongue, his appearance of looking stupid, his daughters... they really don't have anything to do with his actual performance as a president.

Re:Changed the view of the US?

[danheskett]

Ok, IANAE (I am not an economist),
Imagine that. A person without economic background trying to tell policy makers what to do.

but from what I understand the "trickle down effect" just doesn't work the way people want it to.
There isn't any thing related to "trickle down" going. Behind the rhetoric is something called Supply-Side economics". It's a serious topic that academics and policy wonks debate.

Giving them even more isn't going to
It's not "giving" them more. It's adjusting everyone's rate equally. For example, if the top rate was 25%, another rate 16%, and the bottom rate 12%, a 50% tax cut would mean that rates were 12.5%, 8%, and 6%. A person making 20,000 year taxed at the bottom rate would go from paying 2400 to 1200, a savings of $1200. A person making 150,000 would go from paying $37,500 to $18,750. That means in political rhetoric terms "The rich were given 94% of the tax cut with the poor only getting 6%" is completely accurate.

big an impact as doing the same to a poorer person.
See, now, that is just silly. If you are trying to get capital back into the marketplace, would you rather send back $1200, or $18,750?

Secondly, the rich still only make up a small percentage of the world's
Yes, but what you don't realize is that the rich pay the VAST majority of income taxes. The top 50% of income earners pay 96% of all income taxes paid. (link).

And lastly, the money spent by a rich person doesn't really trickle down to the needy
Can you trace the history of a rich person from point a to the pocket of poor person b? Of course not. It's a complex system that takes *years* to fall into place. Again, it is way more complicated than I think you can grasp in this situation. Additionally though, it was claimed that the "rich" were going trickle down to the poor.

When they buy up-market products, the money will very quickly "leave" the local area since it's likely to be imported (no matter where they live).
Wrong. The total value of goods and services consumed in the US is 10.40 trillion for last year (link). The trade deficit totals about $200B (link) a year. That means we import more than export. Even if you figure the rich will tend to import more than your average person, it is not reasonable to assume that most of their spending will go overseas.

The money goes to some company, and executive pay is almost universally improportionate to the worker's pay.
This is a major issue: productivity and profitiability are way up, but so far wages are flat. This however has nothing to do with "trickle down". What does happen however is that employment increases. Which is what we have seen. So far this year it is estimated that 1.4 million jobs have been created (link). That is significant.

tax cut for the poor would have made a much better and longer lasting impact to many more people
Here is the little dirty secret that people who don't know what is going on don't realize. The poor in this country pay very, very, very little income tax. If you are literally poor, as in impoverished, you not only don't pay any income tax, you get a refund for taxes you never paid. Yes, that's right. It's an "Earned income tax credit". A tax refund for taxes you never paid (link).

People could pay off debts, get a better education, spend more time with the kids, start a small business, etc.

Re:Changed the view of the US?

[boarder]

First, read this:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=114715& cid=971 6190

Next, think about this:
In the past 20 years, average CEO salaries have gone up 2000% (that's 20 times). How much has minimum wage gone up? Well, back then it was around $4/hour, now it is around $5/hour. Are CEOs 20x better than they were in 1984? Are low income workers not subject to the same laws of inflation as the rest of the country?

A CEO lays off 100 workers to save $2 million per year of a company's money... that CEO then gets paid $2 million per year and gets a golden parachute if he leaves. That sounds like intelligent spending for a company.

Poor people NEED the tax cuts. Rich people do not.

Re:Changed the view of the US?

[jcsehak]

The guy making $250K can save $25K a year effortlessly, with zero impact on his family's standard of living.

Says you. Just last week I had to take a commercial flight to my villa in the Bahamas instead of my private jet, because gas prices were just too high and I'm trying to save 10% of my income. Let me tell you, these hard times are affecting everyone.

Re:Changed the view of the US?

[tnmc]

> We had the impression that the Soviets were a
> bunch of automatons with no respect for human life
> that were just waiting to go war for any reason.
> How the Soviets were just dying to use chemical
> and/or nuclear weapons!

Substitute "Muslims" for "Soviets" and read today's propaganda. Plus ca change...

Re:Changed the view of the US?

[prisoner-of-enigma]

I'm one of the Americans who, while travelling abroad, is as sensitive as I can be to the host country I'm in, and I resent being lumped into a generalized "ugly American" category simply because of the land of my birth. When I was in Germany, I took the time to learn enough German that I could be reasonably functional in my daily travels. I didn't demand everyone speak English to me (although most did, voluntarily, when it became obvious my German wasn't up to the "conversational" level). I did the best I could and asked for no special favors.

It was amazing how accomodating the German's were (this was pre-9/11, though) when they realized I was attempting to meet them half way. I took offense at other Americans who were loud, offensive, and constantly griping about "why aren't the signs written in English so everybody can read them?"

Now, to play devil's advocate for a moment, most Europeans have no concept of what it's like to live in a country as large as the U.S. where English is spoken everywhere. In Europe, a few hours travel in any direction will land you in a completely different country. Unless you live near the Canadian or Mexican border, such things do not happen in the U.S. Most Americans have as little concept of such dense multiculturalism as Europeans have of U.S. geographical and cultural dispersion and uniformity.

But in reality, both sides of this "ugly American" thing are in the wrong. Americans, in general, need to be more observant of foreign cultures. Whether you admire it or not, it's worth learning about at the very least, if for no other reason than it's different. Other nations, on the other hand, need to not pre-judge traveling Americans, treating them with contempt and disdain on sight. After all, aren't the liberal idealogues always griping about how unfair it is when people are stereotyped?

Re:Changed the view of the US?

[jcleland]

I have no idea when it's on in the Boston market
Jeopardy is on at the same time, even if you are in a restaurant.

Man, I'm really sorry, I just couldn't help myself...

Re:Changed the view of the US?

[hackstraw]

Actually, I work with a former Soviet citizen, and both of us grew up during the "Cold War". She said that they did not share our fear of nuclear war. Their press and media did not share the same attitude that we had where "At any minute, one of those crazy Commie Russians is gonna push the button and poof the world will be over".

I grew up with this fear. Movies like Red Dawn and The Day After scared the shit out of me.

Back then the Olympics were almost like a war. It was us against them. The highlight was the 1980 US/USSR hockey match for the gold medal.

Then, one day, poof... No more USSR.

Now the government has invented a better enemy. One without borders. One without a clear identity. Gasp, Terrorists.

Now we have a war on terrrorism. WTF? As if there is anything that anyone can do to prevent a bombing. How difficult is it to simply walk across the US/Mexico border or even easier the US/Canada border?

Re:Changed the view of the US?

[LuxFX]

Oh, just give that Jeopardy guy a chance. By the time he tops $10 million, the country will be teeming with Brainiac wannabes...

At some point along the way, I picked up this quote from a Slashdot post, that bears repeating (or at least paraphrasing -- and I wish I could tell you who said it):

You know, if we had recruiters for Pharmaceuticals standing outside of colleges offering new graduates 10.2 million over 3 years, then cancer would have been cured 10 years ago. Why do athletes, that contribute NOTHING to society, get paid the most?

Re:Changed the view of the US?

[N1KO]

According to Adam Smith, supply and demand. It's the same reason why useless diamond rings are more expensive than water, which is essential to live.

Fisching Trip

[mfh]

> Fischer, indicted by a grand jury in 1992, managed to elude authorities and left a tantalizing trail that included radio broadcasts from the Philippines and sightings in Japan.

So Fischer played a 12 year game of chess against the feds and lost, eh? That's the problem when you run from the law... you can't 'mate 'em, but they can 'mate you in 12.

Re:Fisching Trip

[Anonymous Coward]

It isn't the "mate in 12" he is worrying about, it is the "mate in prison" that is his real problem now.

Re:Fisching Trip

[JosKarith]

"you can't 'mate 'em, but they can 'mate you in 12."
What a coincidence - that's almost certainly what they said to "Shower Bitch Bobby" was told as he was escorted to his cell.

Thank God!!

[Anonymous Coward]

They finally caught that villain! Justice is served!

Re:Thank God!!

[chris_mahan]

Yes, and now that the US has demonstrated its superior manhunting skills against a determined strategist, we'll be getting our miffs on Osama in no time.

Oh, but it was ... In Japan!!!!

Open mouth, insert paranoid foot

[erick99]

I was somewhat surprised to find this in the article:

In radio interviews, he praised the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, saying America should be "wiped out," and described Jews as "thieving, lying bastards." His mother was Jewish.

Behavior like that wont't help his cause regarding his 1992 match that was in violation of UN sanctions.

This is sort of interesting as well. It hints at a greatly inflated sense of self-importance and a little paranoia.

He announced that he had abandoned chess in 1996 and launched a new version, "Fischerandom," a computerized shuffler that randomly distributes chess pieces on the back row of the chess board at the start of each game. Fischer claimed it would bring the fun back into the game and rid it of cheats.

Cheers!

Erick

Re:Open mouth, insert paranoid foot

[gowen]

Fischer claimed it would bring the fun back into the game and rid it of cheats

Thats not entirely it. Fische Random is designed to remove the advantage to be gained from memorising scores and scores of standard openings and to encourage play based on talent rather than preparation.

Re:Open mouth, insert paranoid foot

[October_30th]

Yes.

Here is a more thorough article on Fischer's rise and fall.

Re:Open mouth, insert paranoid foot

[TheCarp]

Well Fischer has always been politically incorrect. This is the same man that accused the russians of ruinin ghte game of chess by always playing for mates against eachother and always playing western masters for the win, and saying that women can't play chess because theres not a woman in the world he couldn't beat given knights odds. (not that there are more than a handful of men that could beat him with knights odds)

As a friend informs me, he had dissapeared back in the 70s because he believed the US government was out to get him. So in his mind he had been in hiding from the US for 26 years before he said that.

I guess the upshot is that we can now all expect a few more good crzy bobby fischer quotes in the near future.

Frankly i think its all pretty bogus. Ok Yugoslavia was under sanctions. Big deal. He went there to play chess. I think this entire mess shows an inflated sense of self importance for the US gov, or at least hypocracy. The UN matters when they agree with US and doesn't matter when they don't?

Hes an old coot who was one of the most well known chess grand masters ever. SO much so that he gave up his title and quit the game years before I was born, and I still know who he was. Just let him be, hes not hurting anyone.

Sure hes an asshole, but should bein gan asshole really be a crime?

-Steve

Re:Open mouth, insert paranoid foot

[pgilman]

" Even I, a complete amateur, know more than a couple dozen opening lines past the 8th move."

dude. if you know more than a couple dozen opening lines past the 8th move, you're hardly a complete amateur. 8-P

But what about Paul Simon?

[lxt]

...not entirely sure about this one, but didn't Paul Simon violate US/UN sanctions by recording his album Graceland in South Africa? I don't recall anything happening to him over it (then again, I was only around four years old at the time :))...

Re:But what about Paul Simon?

[vidarh]

UN sanctions, yes, but not US sanctions. UN sanctions don't automatically have the force of law. Graceland entered the Billboard Top Album chart on September 8th 1985. On September 26th, Reagan vetoed the bill intended to start US sanctions. On October 3rd the veto was overriden by the Senate... So it was close, and he got some flack for it, though it was largerly silenced because of the focus on black South African music, but he didn't violate US law.

Re:But what about Paul Simon?

[blackmonday]

Yes, but nobody realized it was him, he was going under the pseudonym of a guy named "Al". He kept telling people to call him that.

Re:But what about Paul Simon?

[dasmegabyte]

Of course he didn't take much flack. If a guy goes out and records an album for the sole purpose of increasing the awareness of an oppressed culture, you don't fault him for breaking the law you invented to inconvenience the opressors. It'd be political suicide.

chess sanctions?

[Lord Ender]

Perhaps they should start an oil-for-chess program.

Really

[gowen]

How could the submitter fail to title this article

Bobby Fischer Found ... In Japan

Deported !!

[hyderabadi]

deported to the United States - that's new!!

Nice chap

[ultrabot]

Sound like a guy that could be posting on slashdot, if he only was into computers :-).

A Better Article

[Corbin Dallas]

Can be found at this site.

Interesting that the Japanese authorities are

[foidulus]

going to extradite him to the US, but they will not extradite a soldier by the name of Jenkins, who "disappeared" into North Korea while in the US military guarding the 38th parallel some 20 or so years ago. Jenkins married a kidnapped Japanese woman while in North Korea, and will be returning to Japan for a medical checkup soon. I actually don't think they should extradite either of them, but if you are going to do it, at least be consistent...

Re:Interesting that the Japanese authorities are

[Zak3056]

I actually don't think they should extradite either of them, but if you are going to do it, at least be consistent...

Fischer isn't being extradited, he's being deported because his passport isn't valid. There's an important distinction there.

Cheats in chess?

[Gentoo Fan]

He announced that he had abandoned chess in 1996 and launched a new version, "Fischerandom," ... Fischer claimed it would bring the fun back into the game and rid it of cheats.

I think Valve should hire this guy to patch up Counter-Strike.

Re:Busting him for violating sanctions

[Tar-Palantir]

Sad when a genius has his cheese slide off his cracker.

Fischer's always been a nutcase, even back when he was World Champion. Read a decent book on the history of chess (or one specific to him), there are (true) stories about Fischer that you just wouldn't believe. Little things like making the tournament organizers get a chessboard 3 millimeters larger. Flying his favorite chair to the match (in Iceland, no less). Giving up his freakin' World Championship because his insane terms didn't get met.

Basically what I'm saying is, yes Fischer is crazy, but this not new.

Pointless Prosecution

[Cavio]

Shouldn't there be some kind of rule against arresting somebody for violating a law that is no longer in effect?

Heck, Yugoslavia doesn't even EXIST anymore. It's kind of a moot point.

Re:Pointless Prosecution

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

Shouldn't there be some kind of rule against arresting somebody for violating a law that is no longer in effect?

No. There's a fundamental principle in law called "retroaction" that says you can't be prosecuted for something you did in the past that contravenes a law that was passed after what you did, the only notable exception being war crimes and genocide (the Nazi atrocities were severe enough that the Nuremberg court simply ignored this rule and tried the Nazi officials with law made up after the fact).

So Bobby Fisher should be tried for violating a law that existed when he did the deed, just as you shouldn't be prosecuted for driving at 70mph on a road that has a 50mph sign today, but had a 70mph sign when you drove on it.

US Hypocrisy

[fpga_guy]

From the article:

U.S. authorities accused him of violating U.N. sanctions imposed against Yugoslavia by playing the match.

Yeah 'cos we all know about the US's unwavering respect for the UN...

But only when it suits...

Re:US Hypocrisy

[b-baggins]

Oh, for crying out loud. Are you seriously maintaining the asinine argument that putting a brutal, oppressive, murdering, dictatorial regime as the Chair of the Human Rights Commission is no big deal because there is no nation in the world with a perfect record on human rights?

Finally safe

[xs650]

Now that Martha Stewart and Bobby Fischer have both been aprehended, I feel much more secure.

Re:Busting him for violating sanctions

[yack0]

> Sad when a genius has his cheese slide off his cracker.

Fischer's cheese was never on his cracker. Ever.

Yes, he was/is a brilliant chess player, but other than that he's shown absolutely no positive social graces, a raging ego (into the bad side of ego - some ego good) a sense of vengeance overall and a pretty cracked sense of the world.

I'd even submit that there's a large portion of those who could be 'genius' and are wackos and/or socially inept as well.

(no, not a troll, but I realize I should don the nomex suit)

Re:I can't sympathize

[flossie]

If his only transgression were for the love of the game, the world would have forgiven him quickly... the court of public opinion would have ruled in his favor. This guy has hosed himself up pretty bad and now he's caught. If it's true that his views are against the people of Jewish faith and that he applauds the horror of 9-11, then the court of public opinion will rule against him if it hasn't already.

And since when has public opinion about someone's views been a legitimate means of determining whether or not they should be punished for breaking the law? Did you miss that whole "freedom of speech" bit in the US constitution?

great article on Fischer

[paulydavis]

I wanted to submit this link when i submitted the story but it was an afterthought. It is a great story on what Fischer has been up to in the alantic monthly. story>/A>

He sort of makes sense to me...

[Anita Coney]

While I'd never condone terrorist activity, I too would hate a country that tried to arrest me for simply playing chess. As an American I'm utterly embarrassed.

I know another man...

[No. 24601]

who was a champion for the US during the Cold War. He's now the most wanted man in the world.

Re:Why does this mean so much?

[Maqueo]

Up until Bobby Fisher Russia had been the reigning chess champion... well forever (with the exception of some european / cuban[!] players the beginning of the century). Not only the fact that he won in a time of political tension, but also played REALLY brilliantly was quite an amazing feat. He remains one of the greatest players all-time, and his matches against Spassky continue to be studied nowadays by chess aficionados everywhere. It also seems the KGB tried to pull several dirty tricks in order to help Spassky to win, without luck. If you have an interest in chess, check out some of his games. Amazing style (although I prefer Alekhine :P )

Re:Busting him for violating sanctions

[LookSharp]

Any generalized racial hatred is always a bad thing, anti-semitism included. Let's not forget that popular mindset in Europe right now appears to be that "Zionist Isreal crushing Palestinians is a very bad thing," and, less formally, "The US rails against 'religious extremists' (Muslims) while a good number of their people (fundamentalist Christians) seem to be equally as extreme."

At least that's my take on it.

Murray Head saw this coming...

[angst7]

Japan. Oriental setting
and the city dont know what the city is getting...
The creme de la creme of the chess world
and a show with everthing but Bin Laden.

Time flies! Doesn't seem a minute
since Yugoslavia had the chess boys in it
All change dont you know that when you
play at this level its no ordinary venue?

In New York or Afganistan or Iraq... or this place!

One night in Tokyo and all jews are bastards...
Not much between self hate and insanity
You'll find a spook in every karaoke bar
and if your lucky you've still got your qeeen
I can feel deportation creeping up on me.

(ok, so the execution was weak, but you get the idea)

Terrible Idea!

[Pii]

We can't have him down in Guantanimo, tutoring terrorists in the finer points of chess...

If bad people become chess masters, the terrorists win!

Re:Jesus!

[mirko]

So, he's nuts, but did he kill anybody, how does this make him more dangerous than, say, some starving homeless guy with a knife ?
And his views on history are his, which mean I do not give a fuck about conspiracy theorists as well as their opponents...
Glorify him for what he is : a chess genius and do not publish things about what you think he doesn't do well enough.

Clearly....

[zandermander]

You've never had to escape from people bent on killing your entire ethnic group.

Not that I have, mind you, but I would think you have heard of the Holocaust, Cambodia (ever see The Killing Fields?), Rwanda and even what went on in South Africa for so long.

At this point in the world's history, I cannot sympathize with anyone attempting to use false ID to travel.

I don't know about you but if were being persecuted and all I needed to do to escape harm was to use a false ID, I think I'd choose the false ID.

Sometimes the right thing to do is to ignore and/or willfully break stupid laws.

Sorry for sounding so harsh but that part of your comment was pretty dumb. Seeing mountains of skulls in Cambodia has a way of changing your point of view.

Re:Jesus!

[lseltzer]

And he was fucking nuts back in 72 as well. He's always been paranoid. He went apeshit before the 72 tournament refusing to play if there were any cameras or recording devices in the room. I believe he forfeited at least one game because he imagined there was a camera there.

I was 11 years old at the time but I remember it pretty clearly. I was aware back then that he was kooky anti-semite.

Give the Poor Guy a Rest (not Arrest)

[Teancum]

While Bobby Fischer might have technically violated some U.S. laws, (and this one technicality is just the first that he has dealt with) he really should simply be left alone.

I've been following Bobby Fischer since he started publishing Chess columns in Boys' Life. While not necessarily a hacker, certainly a classic geek.

He all but dropped out of society in almost a Ted Kaczynski fashion, and can IMHO be classified as the most persecuted American by the U.S. Government. He was also wanted a few years ago on tax evasion charges, but I thought that got cleared up. He really has been hounded by the U.S. government for many things, and gone through ups and downs in his life that I would not wish on anybody.

A really good writeup about Bobby Fischer's trip to Yugoslavia is on bobbyfischer.net

I had to use the internet wayback machine because for some reason the regular website is down. Probably due to some slashdotting, although in this case probably not directly due to slashdot it self (surprisingly). Some absolutely incredible articles. I've also seen segments on television news programs that have also discussed his life, and it seems rather pathetic. How much of this is brought onto himself, and how much is out right presecution remains to be debated, but he should really be given a nice quite spot in Montana and be left alone.

Maybe the U.S. government is afraid of letting intelligent people who think the U.S. government is screwed up be left alone.

Re:Give the Poor Guy a Rest (not Arrest)

[Anonymous Coward]

Whoa whoa whoa, why does he have to be my neighbor? Since when did Montana become the little "out of the way" place to store your undesireables? First you send us Californians and movie stars, and now you're sending hate filled nutcases. That's on top of the wack-jobs we already have here. Damnit! Montana is NOT the Australia of the U.S.!

I say we give Bobby a quiet little spot right next door to you.

Re:The man is clearly mentally unstable

[jjohnson]

What Fischer calls "cheating" is what others call "chess study". His criticism of the current form of chess is that being a grandmaster involves memorization of openings and endgames more than general strategy and tactics. His particular criticism of the "Russian Chess Machine", as he called it, was that it cheated by having hordes of grandmasters studying chess to back up their contender in a tournament; when there was a break in the game, the contender would meet with his committee of experts and receive the abridged version of their studies. The effect was to multiply the power of the contender because the rote memorization and study was done for him.

Of course, Fischer also accused Russian chess players of throwing games to advance other Russian chess players who'd been picked to be the champion so that their contendor could get to the final round without exerting himself, and be fresh for the championship match, while someone like Fischer had to fight his way to that match and be exhausted when he got there.

Fischer saw the former kind of cheating as an inherent problem in the fixed starting position of the game, and invented Fischerandom (TM) to overcome it. By randomizing the starting positions, book openings become meaningless and chess becomes much more an exercise in pure strategy/tactics and on-the-board analysis.

Re:I can't sympathize

[Physics Nobody]

I really hate how this issue keeps coming up after so many years and yet so few people actually have their facts straight. Honestly I don't even care very much anymore, but if you're going to use Clinton as an example you should at least be accurate.

What you never hear in regards to Clinton's famous court appearance is that before 'lying under oath' he asked the judge to define 'sexual relations'. The judge defined it as intercourse. Only after that did Clinton claim he did not have sexual relations.

Now, I will not argue that he was being dishonest. I will not argue that he was being weasely. But lying under oath? If you can't go by the judge's definition of a term then what can you go by?

Re:Jesus!

[The Almighty Dave]

If I remember correctly, in addition to being intelligent and somewhat crazy, wasn't there some talk a while back about him being autistic, or at least showing some traits of autism?

Sanction info

[tambo]

Wow. 238 comments at present, and yet no one (including the OP) has provided information about the sanction? You guys are slacking...

I dug up some information:

On September 1, 1992, Bobby Fischer came out of his 20 year retirement and gave a press conference in Yugoslavia. He pulled out an order from the U.S. Treasury Department warning him that he would be violating U.N sanctions if he played Chess in Yugoslavia. He spit on the order and now faces ten years in prison and a $250,000 fine if he returns to the U.S. In addition, he must forfeit his $3.65 million to the U.S. Treasury and forfeit 10% of any match royalties earned. On September 30, Bobby Fischer began his rematch with Boris Spassky in Sveti Stefan, Yugoslavia. The match was organized by banker Jedzimir Vasiljevic. On November 11, Fischer won the match with 10 wins, 5 losses, and 15 draws. He received $3.65 million for his winnings and Spassky received $1.5 million.

And I found the letter from the Senate that explains the basis for the sanction:

Department of the Treasury
Washington
Aug 21, 1992
Order to Provide Information and Cease and Desist Activities

FAC No. 129405

Dear Mr Fischer:

It has come to our attention that you are planning to play a chess match for a cash prize in the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (Serbia and Montenegro) (hereinafter "Yugoslavia") against Boris Spassky on or about September 1, 1992. As a U.S. citizen, you are subject to the prohibitions under Executive Order 12810, dated June 5, 1992, imposing sanctions against Serbia and Montenegro. The United States Department of the Treasury, Office of Foreign Assets Control ("FAC"), is charged with enforcement of the Executive Order.

The Executive Order prohibits U.S. persons from performing any contract in support of a commercial project in Yugoslavia, as well as from exporting services to Yugoslavia. The purpose of this letter is to inform you that the performance of your agreement with a corporate sponsor in Yugoslavia to play chess is deemed to be in support of that sponsor's commercial activity. Any transactions engaged in for this purpose are outside the scope of General License No. 6, which authorizes only transactions to travel, not to business or commercial activities. In addition, we consider your presence in Yugoslavia for this purpose to be an exportation of services to Yugoslavia in the sense that the Yugoslav sponsor is benefitting from the use of your name and reputation.

Violations of the Executive Order are punishable by civil penalties not to exceed $10,000 per violation, and by criminal penalties not to exceed $250,000 per individual, 10 years in prison, or both. You are hereby directed to refrain from engaging in any of the activities described above. You are further requested to file a report with this office with 10 business days of your receipt of this letter, outlining the facts and circumstances surrounding any and all transactions relating to your scheduled chess match in Yugoslavia against Boris Spassky. The report should be addressed to: The U.S. Department of the Treasury, Office of Foreign Assets Control, Enforcement Division, 1500 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W., Annex - 2nd floor, Washington D.C. 20220. If you have any questions regarding this matter, please contact Merete M. Evans at (202) 622-2430.

Sincerely, (signed)
R. Richard Newcomb
Director
Office of Foreign Assets Control

- David Stein

Oh please, way to pat yourself on the back...

[raehl]

He's saying that people who play chess well need to be way smarter than people who play football well. Is playing football a more intellectual activity than say, tennis? Maybe, for certain positions.

But there are plenty of really stupid pro football players. I don't know any really stupid chess players.

Anyway, most sports are not really that intellectual at all - maybe in the COACHING aspect of it, and the analysis aspects (you can analyze snail movement if you'd like to, and do it in a way only smart people would be able to handle), but when you're PLAYING, it's performance is less "intellectual" than ingrained, trained responses.

Learning to play most sports is a matter of learning the rules of how to play (through coaching) along with practice to make following those rules natural. It's not intellectual, it's memorization.

You can't memorize all of chess - once you're a few moves in, you're going to have to figure out, right then, what the best move is.

Re:Oh please, way to pat yourself on the back...

[BootSpooge]

I don't know any really stupid chess players.
You've never played me.

You know you're a nerd when....

[Vic]

And the hot-swapping of players while play is in motion adds a whole other dimension to the game

.....you refer to a "line change" as "hot swapping". I'll have to remember that one! ;-)

Cheers,
Vic

Re:Jesus!

[lseltzer]

You're right. He did make a stink and demanded the cameras be removed (see this page for lots of details).

Not in the same way, no

[Smeagel]

He's not talking about trick down, he's talking about money growth through investment. If you invest 10 dollars, and there's a minimum hold of $1 for the bank, it can loan 9 back out. That 9 is deposited back in the bank, now they have to hold 90c and can loan 8.10 back out. The eventual effect is that the money grows VERY fast. Many more people have more money to work with, lots more investment and production.

You give it to the government, they spend it -- poorly on something that is HORRIBLE for the economy (like Unionized workers). Then it's done. In our society there seems to be some crazy notion that leaving your money sitting in the bank is going to stagnate our economy, which is only true if no investment is taking place at all. In truth the more money sitting in the bank (theoretically, government regulation can change this) the lower the interest rate is, and the more appealing it is to invest.

...which proves the old saying

[Cryogenes]

Just because you're paranoid it doesn't mean they're not after you.

Fischer is definitely paranoid. For example, he said he believes that all of today's chess matches are rigged (the players have agreed on the sequence of moves beforehand). On a wider scale, he thinks the Jews are after him and his family, that the holocaust did not happen etc.

On the other hand, jailing a person because he played in a chess tournament? Have we all become mad?

Re:Mentally Ill

[CyPlasm]

From this article:

Contrary to popular belief, Fischer didn't emerge from the womb a full-blown grand master. While he was learning the game, as a child in Brooklyn, he was essentially a hotshot club player--a prodigy, to be sure, but not obviously world-championship material. But at age thirteen, in 1956, Fischer made a colossal leap. That year he became the youngest player ever to win the U.S. Junior Championship. He also dominated the U.S. tournament circuit. What was astounding wasn't simply that a gawky thirteen-year-old kid in blue jeans was suddenly winning chess tournaments. It was the way he was winning. He didn't just beat people--he humiliated them.

Maybe the onset of puberty "turned on" his mental illness. This article and others seem to suggest that puberty can trigger an underlying mental condition. In fact, this article says:

Social phobia is the irrational fear and avoidance of being in a situation in which a person's activities can be watched by others. In a sense, it is a form of "performance anxiety," but a social phobia causes symptomsthat go well beyond the normal nervousness before an on-stage appearance. People suffering social phobias intensely fear being watched or humiliated while doing something--such as signing a personal check, drinking a cup of coffee, buttoning a coat or eating a meal--in front of others. Many patients suffer a generalized form of social phobia, in which they fear and avoid most interactions with other people. This makes it difficult for them to go to work or school, or to socialize at all. Social phobias occur equally among men and women, generally developing after puberty and peaking after age 30. A person can suffer from one or a cluster of social phobias.

Sounds like Mr. Fischer to me!

Re:Who's going to play Fisher in the movie?

[rifftide]

Nicholas Cage. "Searching for Bobby Fischer II: Real stories of the Airport Security Patrol" will also feature Sandra Bullock as the American expat stuck in a crummy data entry job for the Japanese government.

Re:Jesus!

[Rei]

No, he didn't kill anyone - although, in response to September 11th, he told a Philippine radio station:

"I was happy? ?Yes, I applaud the act? ?Fuck the US. I wanna see the US wiped out. "

I'm just waiting to hear him blame his detention on Japanese Jewish operatives. ;) You know, Bobby, I'm not too fond of Israel's policies in the middle east, either. However, when you take things as far as, say, blaming the confiscation of your property in absentia by the government on "the Jews", you might as well be working to rebuild the Fourth Reich. Lets close with one of Bobby's quotes:

"I'm hoping for a [scenario] where the [US] will be taken over by the military, to close down all the synagogues, arrest all the Jews, execute hundreds of thousands of Jewish ringleaders, and you know, apologize to the Arabs by killing off all the Jews over there in that bandit state, you know, Israel."

Sieg heil, Bobby. Sieg heil.

Re:Jesus!

[Deathdonut]

While he didn't willingly concede a game, he was warned that if he kept making silly demands (such as removing the first 7 rows of spectators, changing the lighting, de-glossing the chessboard, etc) the game would be forfeit. He continued, and the second game of the match was awarded to Spassky. The third game (and his first win of the match) was played in a secluded room to placate him. After the third match, he stopped being the one making insane demands and the Russians started taking apart light fixtures, filling bags with 'air samples' and accusing Fischer of using electronics to interfere with Spassky's brainwaves.

Re:Jesus!

[JustAnotherReader]

If I remember correctly, in addition to being intelligent and somewhat crazy, wasn't there some talk a while back about him being autistic, or at least showing some traits of autism?

I have a nephew who is autistic. Autism is an overwhelming syndrome that generally restricts the person who has it to only the most basic level of communication. More likely Fischer has symptoms of Asperger's syndrome.

With Asperger's syndrom a person will often be quite intelligent but have some difficulty communicating verbally. They can speak, but they come off as being very shy. They tend to be focused on patterns and sequences (quite a talent to have for a chess player). They also tend to "self stimulate" by self hugging and/or rocking back and forth.

All these symptom also appear in autistic children but with autism the ability to speak and communicate normally is quite often lost. They sometimes also tend not to bond with people. I know there was a time when my nephew didn't seem to understand that he had to relate to the people in his family differently than he relates to a chair. Also, autism tends to strike male children at about 18 months to 2 years old. It's not a syndrome that get worse as you get older. You have it or you don't.

Fisher can obviously speak well. His thoughts may be delusional, but he doesn't have the speech issues or physical movement issues normally associated with autism.

Re:Jesus!

[untaken_name]

Heheheheh. Nice troll. Forbidden to have an innocent play? Of course he wasn't. He wasn't told that he couldn't play chess in that country, merely that he could not play in a sanctioned tournament in that country. It's a bit of a distinction. It sends a message, and please make no mistake: Bobby Fischer knew exactly what he was doing. He sent the message he wanted to send, and while you may think that the reaction was too harsh, please do not make it like all he wanted to do was play a friendly game of chess.

Re:Jesus!

[Scarblac]

An innocent play? There were economic sanctions against Yugoslavia for the civil war and genocide in Bosnia(*) that was supported by the Yugoslavs. Fischer netted $3.5 million for what amounted to a propaganda operation. He was convicted by a US jury, and I can see why.

(*: I'm not 100% sure if it was exactly that part of the war, or another conflict at the time)

Re:Jesus!

[be951]

Yeah, that whole family is bad news. Didn't he have a sister named Amy that just got out of jail or something?

Re:Arabs are semites.

[Anonymous Coward]

Having spent many years studying natural science and taxonomy, I can assure you that semites are a racial group, like caucasians or negros.

Not all followers of the Jewish faith are semites, but all Arabs are semites. Not all followers of Islam are Arabs.

I have spoken english all my life, and I have discussed matters of race with taxonomists from many countries, and I can confidently state that "anti-semitic" means "opposed to semites".

Judaism is a religion that is often followed by semitic people. Others are Islam, christianity, and Drusism, for example. In proper English, to be opposed to Judaism is to be "anti-Jewish" and to be opposed to Israel is to be "anti-zionist".

I thought computer people were supposed to value logic and precision? Using "anti-semitism" when you mean "anti-zionism" or "anti-judaism" is politician's NewSpeak.

Re:Fischerandom Chess

[Black Perl]

Incidentally, in the wake of this story I noticed that he's been promoting something called "Fischerandom Chess" in which the first row pieces are places semi-randomly

Yes, I play this way. I put all my pawns on their row in random order.

The government is opportunistic

[JimmytheGeek]

The Feds put a bunch of crap they'd wanted for years into the Patriot Act, because those pesky civil liberties that take the fun out of being a cop. 9/11 was like one of those contest promos where you get to fill a shopping cart in a certain time limit, or the cages with money blowing around - grab while you can!

Now that the War on Terror is here, it is trotted out any time the admin's polls sag. Press conferences without a scintilla of evidence that the threat environment has changed. And a trial balloon over delaying elections...whew!

Hell - even tax cuts were hyped as part of the war on terror.

The fact is, spooks are by nature consiprators. And they are not drawn to the field by their love of untrammeled civil liberties.

"There ought to be limits to freedom." - G.W. Bush
(actual quote related to a parody website - my sig is just a paraphrase)

Re:Jesus!

[untaken_name]

I don't know. I would see anyone who participated in a formal tournament (supposedly representing the US) in a sanctioned country as supporting that country's actions. This is especially true when that person has been told that the US would not like to be represented. If China actually holds the Olympics, I would hope that the U.S. would boycott in protest of China's massive human rights violations. If they do not, I will see the US teams, and by extension the US government, as condoning that country's actions. If you allow countries that are human rights abusers to have the appearance of legitimacy, you give their actions that appearance. Thing is, he could have just gone over there and played however much chess he wanted to with the people. He could have declared his support of that government's actions. That was not forbidden to him. It was only playing in a sanctioned tournament, where he would be representing the US, that was off-limits. Appearance is key here, as he would not actually represent the US's official stance, but would have that appearance to the rest of the world. This is quite simply because he is an American, and the tournament sanctioned. I think that US citizens should be allowed to travel to Cuba legally, for example, however I would not support the US putting a team in a sanctioned event there. I realize it's a fine distinction, but it is there.

Re:Jesus!

[maxpublic]

He wasn't told that he couldn't play chess in that country, merely that he could not play in a sanctioned tournament in that country. It's a bit of a distinction.

I see. And somehow that's supposed to make the whole thing less absurd?

The man is being charged with playing in a chess tournament when his fuckwit government ordered him not to. As insane as the son-of-a-bitch is, the government had no business pulling this totalitarian temper tantrum in the first place.

It doesn't matter what his views are. It doesn't matter if Hitler is his hero. All that matters is that the government over-extended it's authority and attempted to illegally shackle one of it's own citizens. For try as I might, I see no Constitutional authority granting the government the right to command it's citizens as to which countries they might go to, and what they might do while they're there.

Max