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Language Tempest At Orkut
Quirk writes "Reuters is carrying an article outlining an ongoing headbutting session between English-speaking users of Goggle's orkut and the Portuguese-speaking users of Brazil. The orkut site has more than 769,000 members; 41.2% are Brazilians and 23.5% are Americans. The sites are now mostly in Portuguese, and English-speaking users are complaining that the service is intended to be in English. Orkut is a service meant to develop by way of invitation, and the Brazilians claim since they are inviting their Brazilian friends it doesn't make sense to communicate in English. Brazilian internet users averaged an estimated 13 hours and 51 minutes in May, eight minutes more than for Americans."
If you are communicating with others in your circle of friends, you should speak the same language.
If I'm in a restaurant, and the people at the table next to me are speaking Korean, it doesn't affect the conversation at my table in the slightest.
I guess we could all switch to Esperanto, the Unitarian Univeralist of languages.
Please bid on this Karmann Ghia! Please pleas
What is it with google and these services were you have to "know somebody".
Half the reason I like forums on the internet is I don't know anyone there and I don't have to.
I can pop in, post some shit, read some responses and then go back or not.
I don't want to go on the internet with people I already know from real life. I go on the internet to get away from that. Just show up, discuss something and then leave. Like a bar or something.
"OK, I onlee kno teh english lang and i wanto no wh4t teh 0thre d00ds r saying!!!!! they sux00r! b1gt1meeee! WTF? OMG? cant tey keep thos guyzz 0ff teh inetrn3t? OMG. OMG." bleh. carl
You might have had a point if English wasn't the accepted norm for international communications and just something the States imposed on everyone. However English is the accepted language, so it makes sense that sites that are targeted at an international audience use English or keep everyone apart and just have localized versions. Not that I really care, I'm never invited to anything.
"I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
Once the Brazilians figure out how lame and useless these social networking things are, their numbers will drop.
Unless you have a majority of the visitors / participants that are multilingual capable, you have to separate the content of a web site by language.
I say this from experience on several newsgroups, then forums over the years.
It starts out simple: people who are early adopters often speak English, and can read English (e.g. programmers, ...etc. who know English anyway). Then as technology spreads among the less techno-elite, people who do not know English well want to express themselves in their native language.
In languages that use a non Latin character set, there is a phase where internet communication uses Latin characters to represent their own language. I have seen at least Hindi and Arabic written in Latin alphabet, with some modifiers. (Even some Euro languages lost some characters, like Scandinavian and Germanic languages, where the "O" in Torvalds lacks the stroke in the middle, and the "A" with the small circle, ..etc.)
There are various "dialects" used in these Latinized alphabets, and people learn one version or the other depending on where they learn it first.
This becomes a transitionary phase on these forums, where people will express themselves using this Latin based alphabet to represent their own language.
Then later, as their own language becomes more wide spread and accepted, more people get to use computers and the internet, and they perhaps do not know any language other than their own. This leads to them demanding that only their native language be used in forums that are about their country/society/language/...etc.
Anyone who speaks a "foreign" language in those forums is reminded that the primary language is such and such, and not to confuse others. Some take this as a matter of national pride, some take it as mere courtsey, others take it as common sense, and yet others take it as a mere form of communication. Depends on who you are, your outlook, and your biases.
That is what I have seen in several newsgroups/forums over the years.
So, this is the phase that Orkut is at right now.
Eventually, they may have to separate the content by language. Although there are barriers here, because Orkut is about "networking", and not just "discussions".
It would be interesting to see how this turf war gets resolved eventually, at least for those who are like me who like to observe the new frontiers that the internet have defined/merged/melted/setup.
P.S. In Canada for example, where there are two large groups speaking two languages, a majority of web sites give the option on what language to use at the very beginning. Forums are separated into two languages on many sites. There is a minority who are bilingual and can (and do) participate in the two camps. I imagine Hispanics in the USA, and Spanish speaking Anglos do the same on some forums.
2bits.com, Inc: Drupal, WordPress, and LAMP performance tuning.
Couldn't care less.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
Acredito que se trata de uma tendência absolutamente natural na evolção de qualquer rede social. O fato dos brasileiros terem tomado o lugar dos alemães ou indianos, foi parte por timing, parte por coincidência. Como um outro comentário mencionou, muitos norte-americanos acabaram ignorando convites para o Orkut por causa da febre do Friendster que já tinha passado por eles, enquanto essa febre jamais chegou aqui no Brasil.
(espero que tenha bastante brasileiro por aí com pontos para moderar. abraço.)
-mz
Excuse me, but as a the holder of a degree in Linguistics, I can tell you that those are the numbers for *native* speakers.
However, it is correct that Mandarin Chinese is the most widely spoken native language on earth. However, it's also worth noting that nearly all of those native speakers live in one country, and most of the rest live in countries are adjacent or very nearby.
Native English speakers, on the other hand, live in many countries all over the world. The largest geographically contiguous block are in the United States and Canada, but they are also in many other countries.
The numbers on native speakers of English and Spanish are also accurate if outdated; they are roughly equal.
However, it's when you bring in all of the non-native speakers that English shows its international dominance. English is by far the most widely spoken second language in the world. Nearly all speakers of Spanish, Mandarin, and Hindi are natives, but there are more non-native than native English speakers in the world.
With regard to the language of Diplomacy, you're wrong there, too. French *was* the language of diplomacy for many years, but is so no longer and has not been for decades. It was replaced by English. If French is in fact the official language of the UN (you don't cite a source, but I'll take your word for it; I'm too lazy to cite sources tonight myself), that's the only place left in diplomacy where that is still true. Go to any embassy or consulate in the world and you can probably find someone on the staff who speaks English; you'd be hard put to find someone on the staff who speaks French, unless:
A) It's located in a Francophone country;
or
B) It's a French embassy or consulate.
I know a number of people who speak Japanese as a second language, a few who speak Mandarin and/or Cantonese as a second language, a couple who speak German as a second language and a few who speak Spanish as a second language, but the only French speakers I know are all natives. French just is not a terribly important international language anymore. That's not a criticism, just an observation; French is only important in Francophone countries.
No. Care had an older meaning in English. The phrase "I don't care to" currently means that one does not want to do it, but originally meant that one did not care (have a concern about) about doing it.
"Would you bring ice cream to the picnic?"
"I don't care to." - (I don't mind)
It's still used that way in parts of the midwest US.
Or better yet, orkut.us, where the minority USA folk can go. :^)