Lockheed Replaces 10,000 Solaris Seats with Linux

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Lockheed Replaces 10,000 Solaris Seats with Linux

Posted by CowboyNeal on Friday July 30, 2004 @07:07AM from the move-over-mcnealy dept.

bl8n8r writes "Citing hardware and software TCO, a source close to Lockheed Martin says the aeronautics giant will be replacing 10,000 of its Solaris seats with Linux. The article mentions AutoZone, IBM, SCO and Daimler Chrysler and what may be in store for Lockheed Martin. 'Every engineer has a Microsoft PC sitting next to their Sun Blade,' said their source. 'That's for business applications, and Linux is no threat there. It's Sun who has to worry.' Wait till they find out how much they can save running OpenOffice."

18 of 394 comments (clear)

Reliable source? by RobertB-DC · 2004-07-30 07:08 · Score: 5, Insightful

The whole "article" seems to depend on the word of "a Lockheed employee who is close to the transition." I have my doubts about their source. For example, the source says this about Lockheed's lawyers:

According to our source, Lockheed's lawyers "are like a deer in the headlights" because of SCO's legal threats over Linux usage.

Are you serious? Lockheed is a defense contractor, a major government supplier. Their lawyers aren't going to be "deer in the headlights" against these or any other litigious bastards. More like "alligators in the swamp," if you want to use nature as a metaphor. If SCO so much as puts a toe in Lockheed's water, they're going to lose a leg.

So after calling BS on this, can the source be trusted? He's competely ignorant of the real legal threat, but knows a lot about what's on and under the engineers' desks.

I say their "reliable source" is the janitor. He's probably the guy who stole your lunch out of the fridge last week.

--
Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
1. Re:Reliable source? by Lacutis · 2004-07-30 07:28 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  See, you don't understand, the reason this makes perfect sense they needed to save some money to pay for the Satellite they dropped on the floor so they said, "Hey! Lets quit paying maintenance on solaris!"
  
  See, perfect sense!
Linux? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-07-30 07:09 · Score: 5, Funny

But won't they lose money by not using microsoft products? I've seen microsoft's stats...
Cool by Anonymous+Crowhead · 2004-07-30 07:09 · Score: 5, Funny

Where can I get a linux powered seat?
Business App != Office by kannibal_klown · 2004-07-30 07:09 · Score: 5, Informative

Business Apps don't necessarily mean "MS Office."

We consider business apps where I work:
Bioinformatic software
Data Analysis software
specialized inventory management software

I'm sure Lockheed uses CAD as well as a plethora of engineering apps that have no-where-near equivalent versions in Linux.
1. Re:Business App != Office by Anonymous Coward · 2004-07-30 07:13 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  CAD and other engineering apps usually have versions available for linux, or solaris. They are usually very expensive.
  
  From the CAD and Engineering point of view, the advantage of Windows is in a cheap lower quality competition. You can often find a system that doesn 60 percent of the big system for a tenth the price. On linux, you have the choice of contorting yourself around an open source app which is free but does 30 percent of what you need, badly, or shelling out the $10,000 per seat for the real stuff.
2. Re:Business App != Office by kannibal_klown · 2004-07-30 07:18 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  CAD and other engineering apps usually have versions available for linux, or solaris. They are usually very expensive.
  True, but I just mentioned CAD in passing. I'm sure they use a lot of other specialized stuff that grubs like us know nothing about.
  
  Don't get me wrong, Linux can replace a lot of MS workstations out there now. But a lot of companies use software that isn't available at all on Linux. Maybe it's from a small firm, maybe it's not that well known outside the people that use it, maybe nobody's released a Linux version yet.
  
  I'm just saying, that Lockheed probably had a good reason not to go with Linux on the "business app" workstations. They probably need to run some stuff under Windows, and want a modicrum of support (most vendors will not support their app if it's running under Wine or something).
Man... by thatguywhoiam · 2004-07-30 07:10 · Score: 5, Funny

Linux could be renamed to 'Eclipse' just based on what its doing to Sun...

--
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
OpenOffice by vasqzr · 2004-07-30 07:11 · Score: 5, Informative

Wait till they find out how much they can save running OpenOffice."

We've only got ~100 PC's, and we pay about $160 for Excel/Word/Outlook. I can imagine Lockheed can work something out for the few users that need Powerpoint (managers that make presentations).

The very FIRST issue you have with OpenOffice, whether it's a formatting issue, file conversion, or other imcompatiblity, will cost MORE than Microsoft Office in the loss of productivity and IT staff.
1. Re:OpenOffice by RobertB-DC · 2004-07-30 07:18 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  The very FIRST issue you have with OpenOffice, whether it's a formatting issue, file conversion, or other imcompatiblity, will cost MORE than Microsoft Office in the loss of productivity and IT staff.
  
  I agree, there's a non-zero cost to moving to so-called "free" software. On the other hand, what about the cost of upgrading when Microsoft decides that your version of Office has reached "end of life"?
  
  It's appropriate to put scare quotes around "free" software... but the same thing applies to "purchased" software. "free" isn't completely free, but neither is "purchased" completely paid for.
  
  --
  Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
2. Re:OpenOffice by xs650 · 2004-07-30 07:41 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  I retired from a major defense contractor a bit over 6 years ago. If anything, what I observed then is even more true now.
  
  The biggest obstacle to LockMart changing over to OO is the fact that their main customer, the US Government is a big time MS user. If the US government changed over to OO this week, LockMart and the other major defense contractors would change over by the end of next month.
  
  It's not the technical challange, it's the suitability for the job at hand. A good share of a defense contractors work needs to be compatible with the goverment's systems.
  
  Government offices and defense contrator employees tend to do a lot of fancy, unnecessary but pretty and fun BS with Powerpoint, Word and Excel that make their files unreadable by OO. I'm sure the Linux zealots will say they should stop doing that, but that doesn't change reality.
  
  I will confess to doing quite a bit elaborate engineering work in Excel that made them OO incompatible and would have been better done in more specialized packages...but, that would have made it more inconvenient to share my work with others in my organization and in the government. Considering reality, Excel and other MS Orifice packages were the best tools for the job, and still is if you are working at a major defense contractor and communicate with the government.
Isn't Linux mainstream enough yet? by jolyonr · 2004-07-30 07:13 · Score: 5, Insightful

Haven't we got to the point where these kinds of stories aren't news any more?

Surely we don't need to have any more "another company using linux" news flashes.

Lots of people use linux. Lots more companies use it every day.

In order for the Linux community to accept the level of success that we have achieved already, it's time to realise that we don't need to bash out these stories all the time.

Jolyon

--

Please read my Canon EOS tech blog at http://www.everyothershot.com
YA know... by MisanthropicProgram · 2004-07-30 07:17 · Score: 5, Interesting

However, Utah Unix company SCO could throw a monkey wrench into Lockheed's Linux plans. According to our source, Lockheed's lawyers "are like a deer in the headlights" because of SCO's legal threats over Linux usage.
I know an attorney (like everyone else) and if you threaten her with legal action she'll just laugh. Yes, it's expensive for us regular people, but it is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. After all, I would coutner-sue for something and settle out of court. Yes, yes, I know, it's sad that it has to come down to this, but that's the system - sue to bury he other guy ----and if he has the resources to fight you --- settle out of court.
That's America!
Lockheed Martin will never run OpenOffice by stratjakt · 2004-07-30 07:18 · Score: 5, Insightful

So forget it. It's not good enough, they have to interoperate with too many subcontracters, government agencies, etc, etc..

And, like it or not, the world uses MS Office formats. OO.o isn't good enough.

They wouldn't save anything. They'd waste a lot of time and effort reformatting documents sent to them, resending documents to others, etc.

Seriously, it's called reality, you all might want to look into it.

--
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Linux's been there for a while by CharAznable · 2004-07-30 07:23 · Score: 5, Funny

I work in a company that does work for Lockheed, and they've been using Linux for quite a while. Even without this, they could still be targeted by litigious bastards. Good luck to SCO targeting Lockheed though. They're humongous and build fighter planes and nuclear submarines that could level the SCO headquarters with the push of a button!!!

--
The perfect sig is a lot like silence, only louder
That's news to me and I work at a Lockheed branch by Fallen+Kell · 2004-07-30 07:34 · Score: 5, Informative

This is most likely a case of the one hand not knowing what the other is doing, since I work as a systems administrator at a different branch. Its always interesting to read about something this big on slashdot before getting a memo about it.
In anycase, it sounds like they have a similar setup there as we do here with most engineers having a Sun system and a PC. I personally have a linux PC and a sunblade, both of which run open office, and I don't see any need at all for a MS PC other then for some website tools that ask/require IE (but are easily spoofed with multi-zilla plugin). It will be interesting what comes of this. I don't actually see us making a change like this away from Sun simply because there are no true replacements for the types of servers we are using from an x86 standpoint. However, as opterons become more and more available in server class systems, then maybe some of the systems will be converted over, but I don't see this happening anytime in the next 3-4 years...

--
We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
A company that big forces you to cooperate by MacFury · 2004-07-30 07:51 · Score: 5, Insightful

What many fail to consider is a company of Lockheads size can demand the people that work for it use OpenOffice, especially since it's free. Want to send something to Lockhead? It has to work in OpenOffice.
When I do work for Mallinkrodt they are very specific about what file types they accept. They call the shots because they have the deeper pockets. Lockhead is in a similar situation.
As a Lockheed employee... by Call+Me+Black+Cloud · 2004-07-30 07:56 · Score: 5, Informative

I can say that MS isn't going away anytime soon. Not only (in my particular division) does Exchange run the back end, but our engineers have integrated the authentication across the board. Want to check your pay stub online? Use your exchange domain\username and password. Want to check your training records? Ditto. Check the status of a referred employee? Ditto. Change health care coverage? Ditto. Pretty much the only thing that doesn't require that login is access to the 401k/pension site.

The division I'm in is heavily involved in software development for the government. Sun gets a lot of the business here because of the massive data storage requirements we have. 10's of terabytes is not an uncommon need. The government is also pushing towards more COTS solutions so until there are ready-to-deploy applications on Linux, Sun will still be around. Unfortunately, ready-to-deploy doesn't mean easy-to-deploy. My current project is a nightmare of integration...but that's a story for another day...