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Lockheed Replaces 10,000 Solaris Seats with Linux
bl8n8r writes "Citing hardware and software TCO, a source close to Lockheed Martin says the aeronautics giant will be replacing 10,000 of its Solaris seats with Linux. The article mentions AutoZone, IBM, SCO and Daimler Chrysler and what may be in store for Lockheed Martin.
'Every engineer has a Microsoft PC sitting next to their Sun Blade,' said their source. 'That's for business applications, and Linux is no threat there. It's Sun who has to worry.' Wait till they find out how much they can save running OpenOffice."
The whole "article" seems to depend on the word of "a Lockheed employee who is close to the transition." I have my doubts about their source. For example, the source says this about Lockheed's lawyers:
According to our source, Lockheed's lawyers "are like a deer in the headlights" because of SCO's legal threats over Linux usage.
Are you serious? Lockheed is a defense contractor, a major government supplier. Their lawyers aren't going to be "deer in the headlights" against these or any other litigious bastards. More like "alligators in the swamp," if you want to use nature as a metaphor. If SCO so much as puts a toe in Lockheed's water, they're going to lose a leg.
So after calling BS on this, can the source be trusted? He's competely ignorant of the real legal threat, but knows a lot about what's on and under the engineers' desks.
I say their "reliable source" is the janitor. He's probably the guy who stole your lunch out of the fridge last week.
Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
But won't they lose money by not using microsoft products? I've seen microsoft's stats...
Where can I get a linux powered seat?
Business Apps don't necessarily mean "MS Office."
We consider business apps where I work:
Bioinformatic software
Data Analysis software
specialized inventory management software
I'm sure Lockheed uses CAD as well as a plethora of engineering apps that have no-where-near equivalent versions in Linux.
Does anyone know what flavor of Linux these guys will be installing? I saw some reference to Dell - I'm not sure if they're the supplier or they use a particular brand. I know Red Hat is on NASDAQ; are any of the other major Linux distributors public companies?
Linux could be renamed to 'Eclipse' just based on what its doing to Sun...
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
...that the real threat from Linux is to the proprietary unices and NO openoffice is not a replacement for the MS office suite. This MS-workstation-next-to-the-unix-box phenomenon is only a couple decades old.
Wait till they find out how much they can save running OpenOffice."
We've only got ~100 PC's, and we pay about $160 for Excel/Word/Outlook. I can imagine Lockheed can work something out for the few users that need Powerpoint (managers that make presentations).
The very FIRST issue you have with OpenOffice, whether it's a formatting issue, file conversion, or other imcompatiblity, will cost MORE than Microsoft Office in the loss of productivity and IT staff.
Haven't we got to the point where these kinds of stories aren't news any more?
Surely we don't need to have any more "another company using linux" news flashes.
Lots of people use linux. Lots more companies use it every day.
In order for the Linux community to accept the level of success that we have achieved already, it's time to realise that we don't need to bash out these stories all the time.
Jolyon
Please read my Canon EOS tech blog at http://www.everyothershot.com
Oh ye of little faith...
They just have to convine Lockheed to use Sun Java Desktop, aka SuSE.
They're laughing because they know they're next and there's nothing they can do about it?
They may just find that it will be cheaper to run VMWare, or now the Free qemu, to run their office apps.
I hope that one of these days Wine will be the solution of choice.
Wait until they see how they can run most of their Windows software under GNU/Linux using Wine.
I know an attorney (like everyone else) and if you threaten her with legal action she'll just laugh. Yes, it's expensive for us regular people, but it is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. After all, I would coutner-sue for something and settle out of court. Yes, yes, I know, it's sad that it has to come down to this, but that's the system - sue to bury he other guy ----and if he has the resources to fight you --- settle out of court.
That's America!
It sounds as if nearly every other news story I read regarding Sun Microsystems make the picture for them look progressively more grim. They have been trying to realign themselves and have changed their strategies somewhat but is it too late?
I recall years ago working with Sun/Solaris systems alongside i86/Linux systems. I was amazed at the hardware costs associated with servicing some of the Sun product line. The prices were outrageous. Something like 5 to 10 times what the i86 servers were demanding. What's the point? I even recall when Sun started deploying supposedly lower-end, lower-cost i86 hardware. The costs were still 3 times what I was expecting.
Can't say I'm sorry to see them hitting hard times. Java will be the only legacy they have left over looking back at this 3-5 years from now.
So forget it. It's not good enough, they have to interoperate with too many subcontracters, government agencies, etc, etc..
And, like it or not, the world uses MS Office formats. OO.o isn't good enough.
They wouldn't save anything. They'd waste a lot of time and effort reformatting documents sent to them, resending documents to others, etc.
Seriously, it's called reality, you all might want to look into it.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
[[ Insert obligatory joke about Windows and planes crashing here. ]]
I work in a company that does work for Lockheed, and they've been using Linux for quite a while. Even without this, they could still be targeted by litigious bastards. Good luck to SCO targeting Lockheed though. They're humongous and build fighter planes and nuclear submarines that could level the SCO headquarters with the push of a button!!!
The perfect sig is a lot like silence, only louder
"'Every engineer has a Microsoft PC sitting next to their Sun Blade,' said their source."
Why arent they using these?
Everyone will start to cheer when you put on your sailin' shoes.
to move clients from MS to Linux on their workstations and servers. My score so far:
Internal Mail Servers: 6
Firewall/Routers: 8
File Servers: 5
Workstations: 1
There used to be more file servers. When we moved them to Linux file servers we would find that a critical software application would migrate to some server-side-critical application (like a run-time of MS SQL) and we would have to move the entire box to 2000 server.
Workstations are even harder. We migrate them and the users bitch about not being able to use their "favorite software". Only once, 2 weeks ago, did we find users overjoyed to get Linux. A local Aquatic Park had the lifegards surfing on their XP box until it was unusable. Since it had to be blown off anyway, I threw a Knoppix 3.4 disk into the CD and did the install, configured the users, their email, the printer and the network, and showed them where the apps were. So far they are still happy with the functionality. Plus no viruses and no spyware.
It is very difficult to move people away from even the "standard" apps (Office, etc.). When it comes to specialized applications it is impossible; for now.
No one ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke!
In anycase, it sounds like they have a similar setup there as we do here with most engineers having a Sun system and a PC. I personally have a linux PC and a sunblade, both of which run open office, and I don't see any need at all for a MS PC other then for some website tools that ask/require IE (but are easily spoofed with multi-zilla plugin). It will be interesting what comes of this. I don't actually see us making a change like this away from Sun simply because there are no true replacements for the types of servers we are using from an x86 standpoint. However, as opterons become more and more available in server class systems, then maybe some of the systems will be converted over, but I don't see this happening anytime in the next 3-4 years...
We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
Linux seats have more leg space than Microsoft seats or Solaris seats. I'll be travelling Tux class on my next flight.
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
Your message was intended to be humorous, but I feel compelled to give a serious reply.
/. had predicted the demise of Sun's OS and SPARC. The predictions are coming true.
At this point, Linux should not be compared to Windows. Linux is intended for technical people like engineers. Windows is intended for consumers who have little knowledge of computer science.
Therein lies the threat to Solaris. It is targetted at precisely the same market at which Linux is targetted. The supposed qualities of Solaris are high reliability and efficient operation. Today, Linux has both qualities -- due to IBM. Linux on an IBM mainframe is rock solid and highly efficient; IBM has poured a huge amount of money into ensuring that Linux and any other OS sold by IBM will meet the standards of 6 sigma.
The future of computing sees 4 surviving standards, ranked in order of marketshare.
1. Windows on x86 (including both Intel and AMD)
2. Linux on x86
3. Linux on PowerPC
4. MacOS (FreeBSD) on PowerPC
Numerous people on
In our last upgrade cycle we got to choose from Dell/Windows, Dell/SuSE, Sun Blade/Solaris, or Dell Laptop. Previously everyone had SGI Indy/O2/that_one_purple_box or a Dell laptop.
In engineering, I'd say 80% went for Windows, 18% Linux, and 2% Sun.
Sounds like the kind of sabre-rattling corporations do, when they want to negotiate a new contract with better discounts. Have other corporations threatened to move to Linux when they wanted lower license fees from Microsoft?
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
When I do work for Mallinkrodt they are very specific about what file types they accept. They call the shots because they have the deeper pockets. Lockhead is in a similar situation.
I can say that MS isn't going away anytime soon. Not only (in my particular division) does Exchange run the back end, but our engineers have integrated the authentication across the board. Want to check your pay stub online? Use your exchange domain\username and password. Want to check your training records? Ditto. Check the status of a referred employee? Ditto. Change health care coverage? Ditto. Pretty much the only thing that doesn't require that login is access to the 401k/pension site.
The division I'm in is heavily involved in software development for the government. Sun gets a lot of the business here because of the massive data storage requirements we have. 10's of terabytes is not an uncommon need. The government is also pushing towards more COTS solutions so until there are ready-to-deploy applications on Linux, Sun will still be around. Unfortunately, ready-to-deploy doesn't mean easy-to-deploy. My current project is a nightmare of integration...but that's a story for another day...
I agree. I'm an SE with Lockheed. Equipment is not purchase company wide like this. Each project purchases what type of equipment it needs with its only money. We have several Solaris machines, and there is no plans to change them. As for MS, we all have PCs on our desks, but they are mostly for e-mail and the like. Most development is done on the solaris machines (we have xwindows clients running on the PCs).
Anonymous Cowards suck.
What about the first (and 2nd and 3rd) issue that a user has with a Windows box, like a virus or BSOD or sudden inability to print?
I work in an engineering group with a mixture of Windows and Linux machines. The Windows boxes need virus scans and updates all the time, while the Linux boxes rarely get touched.
I've recently had the joy of trying to open a number of MS Office documents in Office 2003. Guess what, according to Word 2003 those Word 97 documents were corrupted. Loaded fine in Open Office though. Go figure.
So much for ubiquitous office formats.... not to mention, of course, that Word is such a pleasure with large documents to begin with. It's so much fun dropping a picture on a word page-- talk about having to bloody reformat my document all the time...
Do not spread "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0" over the internet, thank you.
IBM (the big Cadence user) just went to Cadence a couple years ago and insisted that cds5.00 should be released for Solaris and Linux *simultaneously*.
They did.
Paul B.
P.S. Cadence is a huge Electronic Design Automation (EDA) CAD system.
That's like saying that everone should be given the freedom of speech only if they say things thing that does not offend anyone. Besides, people don't seem to mind civilian use of technologies that were initally created for the military use.
1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
but you won't actually be using it. Every time I open a .doc file with the thing, I wonder in what new and exciting ways it's going to look goofy, or even be unreadable.
...need to run "business applications"?!
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
"Every engineer has a Microsoft PC sitting next to their Sun Blade"
Huh??? If they need both Unix and desktop applications why not replace these two boxes with a single Mac running OS X? A mac is one single computer which satisfies the requirements of two. Its both a Unix workstation and a personal PC which runs common desktop apps. And it does both of these jobs better than the competion. Is a dual G5 vs Sparc even a contest? Maintaining one single machine per user is easier and cheaper than maintaining two machines per user. Purchase price for one fast G5 is probably the same or less as for a Win PC + Sun Blade. Macs are durable, quality hardware. Kickass OpenGL video cards also, that' got to help with CAD.
So with a Mac, you get equal or lower initial cost, lower TCO because you only have to maintain one machine, not two, and one architecture, not two. Much, much faster hardware. Half the power consumption because you are only running one computer. Great user interface.
I'd think going with Mac would be a no-brainer in this particular situation. What's the deal?
Ceci n'est pas une signature.
Back around 1990 my company bid on a number of NASA jobs, and teamed with companies like Lockheed and Martin. At one of them, when we had a new team of N people working on their site, the IT department showed up with a stack of N Macintoshes, old data wiped out and cleanly reinstalled with the current software. It was extremely productive, because everybody could simply write their stuff, it would all integrate together into whatever final documents we were producing, you didn't need a manual (well, almost never) because Mac software Just Works (even back then), and it was really clean except when you needed to exchange data with people who had different MS Word versions (converting between Mac and PC versions of Word would usually trash tables because one version was always newer than another.)
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
It is trivial to look at the SCO claims against IBM, Daimler and AutoZone and conclude that their claims are entirely based on pre existing contracts with those entities. In fact SCO hasn't brought a genuine copyright case against anyone in their long FUD campaign, their strategy is to sue their business partners over any baseless breach of contract claim they can dream up then vaguely assert copyright infringement in press releases. It really takes a spectacularly lazy and inept journalist to miss this. The article restating SCO's blatant lie that the law suit was brought to make Daimler respond to SCO's letter when the truth is that SCO was trounced in court on everything but the letter response time just illustrates how biased the journalist was and how dishonest Blake Stowell is.
Well, actually FC1 works much better than FC2. That's been my personal experience with exactly this situation. It's to the point that I hardly ever use Windows anymore on that computer. In fact, I'm very seriously considering backing up my files and wiping the Windows hard drive and going with FC1 throughout. It just works better for my purposes.
Haec merda tauri est. Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
As I sit writing on my PC box next to my Solaris machine, I look forward to the next project which uses PC and Linux. Its a great environment.
I'd like to say that we don't use Windows for Word/PPoint/Excel. We use it for Outlook. A program I thought was shit until about a month an a half ago when I started using it in the corporate environment. The tight integration between contacts, meetings, scheduling really help cut down on the administration work I have to do to keep working.
Great. Which Lockheed aircraft have these seats?