FCC Says TiVo Owners Can Share Shows

Ec|ipse writes "Last week TiVo received alot of heat from MPAA and NFL for a proposal regarding sharing of recorded shows with users, see previous story. Today it looks like TiVo has received approval." From the Reuters story as carried by Yahoo!: "TiVo, maker of popular digital television recording devices, on Wednesday received approval for technology that would permit users to send copies of digital broadcast shows over the Internet to a few friends."

Comments

Amazing... A step forward?

[ianbnet]

I am always skeptical of how this will play out in the long run, but this looks like it could have a significant impact in returning fair-use rights to consumers.

I would love to know how this might act as a precedent for computer-based sharing methods... i.e. recording a show with BeyondTV or another PVR and emailing it to a friend.

Re:Amazing... A step forward?

[Anonymous Coward]

More like a step to the side. Clearly not backwards but not entirely forward either.

Here's the problem: "fair use" cannot be determined by a computer algorithm. People are attempting to use computer algorithms to make sure nothing outside "fair use" happens. Since error is inevitable, media companies always make sure the error is in the direction of "they're just making a backup but we think they're a pirate" than "they're making four hundred copies, but hey, maybe they've got 400 TVs". They may adjust their formulas every now and then but the new formulas will still be wrong.

As long as we accept computers making LEGAL DECISIONS for us, then we will never get our fair use rights back. Getting fair use rights back MEANS also getting back the ability to pirate media. You can't separate one activity from the other except with a human judge. ...which is the way it should be. All DRM should simply go away. You will then have ALL of your fair use rights, and you will also have the ability to pirate media. However, pirating media has been against the law for as long as I can remember (longer than the computer industry has existed for sure), so you can still get arrested for it.

So in my Slashdot-friendly dream world, everyone has fair use rights and pirates go to jail. In RIAA/MPAA DRM-friendly dream world, "fair use" users and pirates are both thrown in jail, and media companies, not the law, get to determine the new definition of "fair use". Today's definition is "sharing with 9 friends".

Re:Amazing... A step forward?

[gcaseye6677]

As we've seen with copy protected CDs, fair use rights don't always mean freedom for the customer. Apparently, the recording industry is permitted to make CDs that are "copyproof" despite fair use clauses in copyright law. The rationale is that the customer cannot be prosecuted for making personal copies but the producer does not have to do anything to enable that, and can apparently stop it too. In this case, I didn't see anything in the article that said the NFL or other content producers had to go along with this, it only said the FCC gave TiVO the OK on the technology. I expect to see lots of obstruction efforts on the part of media companies and would be surprised if this gets resolved anytime soon. In the mean time, legitimate customers will be inconvenienced and pirates will continue as usual.

I wonder...

[Marscity9]

I have heard rumors about PMP (personal/portable media players) being able to hook up to the TIVO, and then you can watch it anywhere. If this would allow it, I think it would be great for Tivo, so anyone can use it to watch their favorite show anywhere.

Groovy. What harm can it do?

[underpar]

I mean.. I know "airing regional games outside of their market" is dangerous to the fabric of society and capitalism as a whole, but I'd like to send 'Office Space' to my sister. It seems wrong for an office worker to have never seen that movie.

Finally, the Legal system working for us.

[mesmartyoudumb]

The End is near!
Long gone are the days of law makers stomping on the face of the digitally inclined.

So long 50 year copyright act!
so long DMCA!
So long RIAA lawsuites!

Ok..maybe im a little optimistic.

At least until...

[MaineCoon]

At least until the corporations lobby and buy a change of decision from the FCC.

While this is a win for fair use rights (although it could sanely be argued it goes beyond fair use, I'm not going to be the one doing the arguing), it goes without saying that the MPAA and friends will not take this sitting down.

Re:YES!

[aka-ed]

Don't celebrate. Did you RTFA? DRM will keep your shared programming to a max of 9 good friends. No promise that the presence of DRM won't allow some things to be made unshareable somewhere up the road. Anyway it won't be in your hands to make those decisions...

Hmm will MLB still come after me..

[NightWulf]

if I only have implied oral consent..but not expressed written consent?

No P2P for you

[Wesley Felter]

It's not at all the same concept. TiVo2Go is like iTunes; you can only share among computers registered with the same account.

ReplayTV anybody?

[jahead]

Anybody remember the ReplayTV 4500 and 5000 series? They both allowed show sharing. It was a major selling point for ReplayTV, in fact. They were sued by Disney and a few other broadcasters to stop show sharing (as well as an automatic commercial skip feature). There was even a limit on the number of times you could send a show (five times). Does this ruling mean that TiVo cannot be sued and that ReplayTV can reintroduce the feature?

is this in the FCC's jurisdiction?

[josecanuc]

Is this in the FCC's jurisdiction? They are in charge of regulating the airwaves of the United States. Once you've received a digital program over the air, does the FCC have any more authority to tell you what you can do with the copyrighted product that they don't even have the rights to distribute?

I'm just asking...

Re:is this in the FCC's jurisdiction?

[PCM2]

Once you've received a digital program over the air, does the FCC have any more authority to tell you what you can do with the copyrighted product that they don't even have the rights to distribute?

You are correct. What has happened here (according to the article) is that the FCC has adopted rules requiring digital broadcasters to implement controls (i.e. copy protection, DRM etc.) preventing indiscriminate sharing of media. So in other words, the FCC can regulate broadcasters, and one of the FCC's mandates to broadcasters is that the protect the rights of the copyright owners of the content they carry. TiVo has implemented some such restriction in thie new system, and the FCC has approved it -- meaning TiVo's system meets the FCC's definition of a scheme to protect copyright. (So I guess this also must mean that TiVo's system meet's the FCC's definition of a broadcaster?)

Sounds to me like what's happened is that the MPAA and NFL won't be able to lobby the FCC to take action against TiVo. Instead, they'll have to spend their own money to sue TiVo under the DMCA.

Yeah, Right.

[scowling]

1. There's no way that this is gonna last.

2. This is going to be used by current Usenet, BT and Kazaa-based sharers as justification for their broad distribution of TV shows (don't get me wrong; I download TV, but I wouldn't justify it like this).

Before the Smack-Down

[ackthpt]

TiVo, maker of popular digital television recording devices, on Wednesday received approval [from FCC] for technology that would permit users to send copies of digital broadcast shows over the Internet to a few friends."

I am always skeptical of how this will play out in the long run, but this looks like it could have a significant impact in returning fair-use rights to consumers. ... I would love to know how this might act as a precedent for computer-based sharing methods.

You know that this will be appealed to the powers-that-be who will smack-down the FCC, yet again. It's the kind of news that gives you hope, just before your cynicism of the system is reinforced.

Reporting from Cheney, WA...

[Anonymous Coward]

I am currently located here in the lovely city of Cheney, which happens to be hosting the Seattle Seahawks training camp.

The other day, as my roommate and I walked past the practice field (paid for by my tax dollars!) I mentioned that the goings on with Tivo and the NFL were really getting on my nerves (as I am highly supportive of my right to sit around and stare at the glowing picture tube.)

An eery silence descended upon the land.

A giant of a man, who stood 6 foot 6, weighed 245 (at the least!) looked at me and asked if I might happen to be "that commie nerd, CmdrTaco", who I bear a striking resemblence to. Of course, I am but a humble code monkey and part-time troll, and so replied that I was not, nor had ever been, a commie nerd taco. He became enraged, and I feared that he would pummel me senseless for my insolence.

Luckily, a giant dust storm swept me away.
They even caught it on camera; NWCN I believe.

Now, for the meat of my post- can somebody get me out of this tree before this guy turns off his wireless router or my laptop dies? SCO Unix doesn't manage power very well.

Freudian slip...

[jared_hanson]

I think what just occured there was a Freudian slip, and your subconcious was acknowledging that there is, in fact, no god.

Supreme Court

[hhawk]

Let's just remember that the Supreme Court sided with Sony on the famous Betamax case that allowed VCRs/VRTs in the first place.

Also, if there wasn't some type of DRM here they wouldn't have gotten certified.

But if they hadn't granted some type of certification they would have run afoul of the Betamax ruling...

Legality of sharing shows..?

[schmiddy]

I've been chewing on this for a while..

I know it's legal for me to tape a TV show from the air onto VHS, DVD, or TiVo myself. I suspect it's probably legal for me to, say, loan the VHS tape to a friend so he/she can watch it as well. And now, obviously TiVo owners can send each other episodes they recorded.

How is this all different than downloading a TV episode of a p2p network? I think I remember hearing of people getting DMCA notices for doing exactly that.

Anyone know where the line is in this case?

Re:YES!

[ron_ivi]

There are /. readers with more than 9 friends! Wow.

Re:YES!

[The Only Druid]

Well, there are a few places you're incorrect.

First, TivoToGo seems to be a streaming application, akin to the current HMO features on Tivos. This means that there will [likely] never be a complete copy of the file on the computer. This of course doesn't prevent someone from developing an app to catch the stream. Good luck though.

Second, you didn't read the article: in order to play back one of the Tivo'd files, you'll need a physical dongle - a small USB tab - to provide the decryption key. That is how they limit you to nine people: only nine dongles can be tied into your Tivo's account.

Now, it should be noted that existing hacks (look for "Sleeper's ISO" for more info, to start) provide the ability to fully extract video off a Tivo (after it's been hacked somewhat), and that is what Tivo is trying to combat. In much the same way that iTunes' Music Store snagged the music-downloaders who were willing to pay a little for the convenience of (a) downloading the file quickly and (b) doing so legally, Tivo is hoping that TivoToGo will snag the people who want to view their shows in other places and do so without violating their warranty.

Re:Why ask in the first place?

[batkiwi]

They didn't HAVE to. They did this in the same vein as getting a preliminary injunction, to avoid being sued.

They had two options:

-Do this, and now tv networks/etc have to sue the FCC to get the ruling changed

-NOT do this, and have every tv network sue them once it goes live, and have it likely have to be disabled during the trial

Which option is better for their customers, and more importantly, investors?

Re:YES!

[PalmerEldritch42]

Through the Gnutella network, I have millions of close friends.

Odd remarks

[abacsalmasi]

I'm sure all you Tivo lovers in the US are aware that we don't get it here in Canada, but one glaring omission is starrring me right in the eyes. If I take any TV and just plug it into a wall outlet and fire it up, I'll get free TV. Granted, it's not cable, but it's free. If I Tivo'd these shows, shouldn't I be able to distribut them to anyone else who's just bought a TV and plugged it in also? How would anybody lose money from this? Wouldn't I just be propogating the show itself and getting it to more users on their behalf? A D M