Slashdot Mirror
Virgin Accuses Apple of Abusing Monopoly
worm eater writes "The Register reports that VirginMega (Virgin Group's online music venture in France) is asking the French antitrust authorities to force Apple to license the FairPlay DRM. If France agrees with Virgin, will this be a blessing in disguise for Apple, making their DRM format the defacto standard, or will it be the downfall of the mighty iTunes Music Store?"
This raises and excellent question: Is Apple a:
A) Technology (I.P.) Company
or
B) Hardware Company
or
C) Service Company
Apple started as A & B and has dabbled in C, but IMS is solidy B & C. With their deals with Motorola (iPod tech in phones) and HP (own brand of iPod) they further A & C. If FairPlay becomes the defacto standard this places them squarely in the A camp again, which actually benefits Motorola and HP, among others who make hardware for them. Will Apple ever allow the Mac line to be made outside the company again, as it was in the Jean Louis Gassée days?
While it all looks rosy for Apple, I can plainly see now how both Sony and Microsoft want to plough into this market, so they can get it all wrong, make people mad (ATRAC3? I thought it said 8 Track!) (my mPod has been 0wn3d!) and lose lots of money.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
...will this be a blessing in disguise for Apple, making their DRM format the defacto standard
How exactly would this be a blessing in disguise? Wouldn't it just open the door to more iTunes-compatible players to compete with? Or does Apple stand to make a pretty penny by licensing FairPlay to the world?
Truthfully I don't see the need for Apple to license their FairPlay technology as much as I see the iPod needing to support WMA. Apple has already stated that they don't make money off iTMS, but off iPod sales generated from iTMS interest. Consequently making the iPod able to play just about anything would help further increase their gravy. Most people will still end up using iTMS anyway.
...at least for now. Unless Virgin can offer a music buying experience that works as seamlessly with the iPod as Apple's - since it's clear that they're trying to sell their tunes to iPod owners - then they'll still be missing the point. I suspect what most people dig most about the iTunes store is integration and ease of use. They aren't terribly concerned about file formats and rights managements schemes. Sure, some are - plenty here on Slashdot, for instance - but I doubt the average person is too concerned by that.
Plus, Apple's the cool music company right now. I just saw someone on the street this morning walking with her nice custom-made iPod purse which still clearly had an Apple logo on it, so you knew it was an iPod in there, and that she dug Apple. I suspect she'd use the iTunes store (except I'm in Canada, alas).
But then, I may be underestimating the tech literacy of the average person. I'd be glad if that were the case.
"Why can't everyone just be straight with me?"
"Because we live in a bendy world, dear."
In the earlier days of the iTunes music store, Apple itself reported very meager earnings indeed. It's long been Apple's policy to charge less for software and more for hardware; if this were to happen, sure, the resulting surge in sales would probably be high, but would iPod sales take a hit? Who knows. It seemed to me that Apple introduced iTunes and the music store on both Apple and PC platforms in order to help drive up iPod sales, from which it makes a tidy bundle. It may be pure speculation, but one could probably assume that doing this would probably hurt iPod sales, and the company in the process.
http://actionPlant.com
couldn't you burn to a virtual CD drive (.iso) and rip back?
semi-OT: I got rid of my (legal) mp3s recently cos all they did was make backups a pain and I like to encode in FLAC via Grip now, and play back with XMMS and CrossFade. Having all my CDs as mp3 seemed great until I realised I really only listen to a couple on a regular basis.
Apple doesnt make (much) money on itunes anyway, its a way of selling iPods. That being so I'v never understood why they've not licenses their FairPlay DRM. The only reason I've ever been able to think of is that they're afraid that if they do, someone will make abetter iPod. However, thats why the free market exists. More competition will make the iPod better because Apple will have to compete more; and if the iPod stays good people will continue to buy iPods no matter where they get their music.
final opinion, this could be a blessing for apple if they welcome it, or a curse if they dig in their heels.
--Aaron
"goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
I would be in favour of Apple being "forced" to open up their DRM, if it meant that EVERY DRM scheme had to be opened up and cross-liscensed (it's all about setting a precedent). I know that no-DRM is better than the lightest available DRM, but since "no-DRM" is very unlikely, then the next best thing is "wildly" cross-liscensing EVERYTHING. For example, I would not mind having MS forced to also open up their DRM scheme, if Apple is now forced to do so.
It's a blessing, and here's why. Earlier in the year Jobs said Apple makes no money off songs sold on iTunes, correct? Well, if he was telling the truth, Apple stands only to make money with the iPod sales. In which case, other online music stores selling music that works with the iPod could only benefit Apple. Unless somebody comes out with a device that holds as much as the iPod that also plays those type of files....
well it is vaguely shaped like a powerbook... and the ones from 1.5 years ago had screens that attach like that (the Ti books not the Al books) but year... the parent is an idiot, if that is a powerbook it was painted black and had a new cover put on the back!
"In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson
wow... that is interesting... I wish I had mod point for you but it looks like other will take care of that.
Im very intersted in this. It seems odd that people would keep bitching at apple to open their standard when it isnt even theirs to open... you would think that one of these companies would have noticed that by now.
"In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson
That's why Apple's so furious at Real for cracking aac and creating "harmony". Eventually hardware and software become mature products. R&D to stay ahead of the crowd costs lots of money. Sales drop because you're no longer the cream of the crop, or there's no reason to upgrade because the products are mature. But being the seller of music content, now that's a never ending stream of "new and improved". People are *always* looking for new music.
Half the posters say FairPlay is licensed from VeriDisc; the other half say Apple created FairPlay and just licensed/stole the name from VeriDisc. Which is it?
I am not saying this JUST because I am in the USA here...
1) Apple is a company based in the United States of America. It is not based in France, and it is not based in a member country of the EU. Virgin is making a play here by filing this claim with the FRENCH antitrust authority. I have no illusions about this being even close to a fair fight.
2) iTMS is a huge potential threat to the record store business. Virgin Megastores is begging the courts to save them from a potential future demise. I would expect other record store companies to follow suit. Why compete when you can sick a French court on another oppresive American company.
Apple is not planning on living off of the iPod for the long term goal. They are planning on building the hub of your future digital lifestyle. Digital music, movies, communication, etc. DRM is key to that goal. Apple is just funding this project with the iPod. Eventually iTMS will will either dry up or redefine the music distribution model. I think the latter. Apple will develop an iMovie (iTV?) store as well. With Airport express or a similar product they'll be able to stream files to your entertainment center. Eventually your computer will become part of your entertainment center. Who wants to pay for 24x7 Cable or satelite service if you can pay for just the progamming you want to see/hear? In the end, there will probably be Apple computers, Monitors, Amplifiers, speakers, and a multipurpose digital recorder for audio and video. Video will be pay per view while audio will be owned.
Why doesn't anything interesting happen when I have mod points?
Virgin Manager: "Say Bill, I see those iPod things everywhere. I want us to get music onto them."
Virgin Tech Guy: "We can't do that sir."
Virgin Manager: "Why not?"
Virgin Tech Guy: "The only protected format that runs on them is Apple's Fairplay AAC."
Virgin Manager: "I thought they were MP3 players".
Virgin Tech Guy: "If we sell MP3's, people can copy them wherever they like".
Virgin Manager: "Screw that. Apple's format is the only protected one on iPod?"
Virgin Tech Guy: "Yup."
Virgin Manager: "So they have a monopoly on a protection standard for the #1 hardware. Where are the lawyers?"
Ok, so, say for instance, a compay makes software that runs on only one platform. The software is an incredible hit and fuels the sale of this platform. Other companies want this killer app on their platform. Do they have a right to force the original company to make the software for their platforms?
Draw your own conclusions, but my opinion is thusly: hells freakin' no. Say my company makes software for Apple hardware (and by extension OSX) and it's so freakin' incredible that everyone goes out and buys OSX. No on, but _no one_ has the right to force me to port my app to their platform. It's _my_ software.
I see a similar thing here: Apple has this "app" (AAC wrapped in FairPlay) and it works on the iPod. Apple hasn't stopped anyone from writing other "apps" for the iPod (within the specs of the iPod, of course, just like you'd have to write hardware specific stuff for PPC), but it shouldn't be forced to license that "app" to anyone else.
Now, it _may_ be really good for them to let other people use FairPlay, but I don't feel I have the information I need to make that call.
Ne Cede Malis.
The bigger the DRM mess becomes, the less likely it is to survive.
It's absolutely not right that we're buying file formats instead of content. Anything that muddies the DRM waters, as they currently exist, works for me.
The real question is can you buy a portable player that isn't an iPod that can play AAC files (drm'd or not)?
...but this is in France.
My guess would be that Apple simply stops iTMS in France. In spanish, I think the phrase would be something like "come mierda".
Second: let's just look at this for a second. One of the StarMax machines included a custom-made PCI card with ethernet and something else (video? SCSI?) on it. The drivers were from Motorola. When the next version of the Mac OS came out, the card simply stopped working because of the way they'd written the drivers. Apple was called over the next week by hundreds of irate StarMax owners.
But I'm sure that if they had just been able to design their own motherboards, everything would have just worked fine and there wouldn't have been any problems with compatibility or anything.
As for the idea that the PowerTowers were the end-all and be-all of Mac-hood, only two things to say. One: they were cheaply made. Things broke. Hardware failed. The case was a generic PC case with flimsy drive-bay doors with plastic fittings that broke off under the slightest bit of pressure. The actual basic design was nice, but the execution *sucked*. And two, especially at that year's MacWorld Expo, PowerComputing sold significantly below cost, because they wanted to entice as many people away from buying a high-end Mac and into their camp. When Apple had really hired people on to cover the low-end while they tried to get the high-end business. Now, you can decide that this was a slimy thing for Apple to do, to try to get someone to shore up their weaknesses rather than steal their best customers. And that's a valid point of view, I suppose. But when it turned around and Apple saw a whole lot of lost sales to people who otherwise would have definitely been buying the highest-end Mac kit, they got miffed.
I would've too. And having worked on a number of Mac clones back then, as a techie, I have to say that none of them were engineered even as well as the PM8500. Which in and of itself was one of the most bone-headed piece of engineering as I have ever seen in all my days.
But at least it was STURDY bone-headed engineering.
-fred
Sign #11 of Slashdot overdose: You see the phrase 'moderate Republican' and you wonder if that would be a +1 or a -1.
...I don't know about that. French law only counts product sales in France. If Apple has a 95% market share in France, it has a monopoly in France, regardless of what is happening elsewhere. And that wouldn't surprise me as much as it might you, because the French have an eye for elegant hardware, and an unconcealed loathing for 'wanna-be' junk. It's just one of the traits that makes Americans hate them so much.
So before you start spouting off on it not being a monopoly, let's see your numbers on French music player sales.
-fred
Sign #11 of Slashdot overdose: You see the phrase 'moderate Republican' and you wonder if that would be a +1 or a -1.
Same thing with the iPods. People didn't understand before why Apple made iPods exclusive to Mac users. They were griping Apple for not realizing iPod's full potential. We all know how that's turning out. Apple bided its time and came out with a PC-compatible model when it was ready to take on the market.
Same can be said about iTunes. Just because Apple isn't opening iTMS today doesn't mean they don't have plans to do so in the near future. Everyone just needs to chill out a bit and be patient. Apple is probably biding their time again and tweaking iTunes into a better service until they're ready to take on the market.
Little Bricklets
Apple also doesn't make hardware compatible with Windows either. Uh huh. (Hint: iPod, Airport Express, LCD Screens, etc.)
This isn't 2000 anymore.
Little Bricklets
Is the first item music from iTMS? But you do not need to purchase an iPod to play that music. Any computer with the free iTunes software installed will do.
And lastly:
Huh? Not even sure where to start. .
The map is not the territory. While you might find analogous qualities in two different things, that does not make them equal. I think you're confusing semiotics with linguistics. While we might speak of a system in semiotic terms, as if it was a language, that doesn't really make it a language. If we were comparing and contrasting "The language of the English garden vs. the language of the French Garden, we wouldn't actually be discussing a real language.
I'll just pass on the part about needing to release a language into the public domain being tested in court. That just sounds wacky, but whatever. It has no bearing on the matter, so why argue it.
The last sentence, Interfaces are a little different - you don't have to release them into the public domain for them to be useful, but you do have to do so if you aren't attempting to hold a monopoly on both ends of its use.
Excuse me, but I've NEVER heard of any law that rewuires you to release a design for an interface into the public domain because otherwise you'd be attempting to "hold a monopoly"at both ends". Maybe you're from a different country than I am and the laws are different, but this just sounds completely non-sensical.
Someone modded you insightful, so maybe I'm just not getting what you're saying. Could you try to explain it again in a different way?
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.