Are You Ready for the SCO Blitz?

eibhear writes "Over on Groklaw, PJ has a theory that SCO is about to embark on an astroturfing campaign, based somewhat on Darl McBride's repeated comparison of the Slashdot and Groklaw styles of blogging at the recent SCOForum conference. PJ reckons: 'an astroturf campaign depends upon a non-moderated site, which explains McBride's sudden fondness for Slashdot.' '" The whole thing is really fishy, but the story is really worth reading just to see the weird battle occurring between SCO and Groklaw now.

Comments

Lies are still lies.

[gsfprez]

I for one welcome our astroturfing overlords from Utah.

(btw: wtf is in the water out there? SCO, Orrin Hatch, etc.)

i welcome them because be it on Groklaw or on /., they still got jack shit in the "what is true" department.

in fact - bring it on so that you can trial ballon every ounce of bullcrap here first, before putting it out in the press, so we can prep for it and practice beating it down here.

Non-Moderated, not Slashdot

[Anonymous Coward]

PJ reckons: 'an astroturf campaign depends upon a non-moderated site

Which, thankfully isn't slashdot. Most readers probably don't know this, but the editors have full control over moderation, and can use their unlimited mod points to mod stuff over and over again. It doesn't show up publicly, but editors have been doing this for quite some time.

By doing this, they can trigger IP bans and therefore thwart these nefarious astroturfing campaigns. I trust the good editors here to use their unlimited powers justly, to keep things ontopic, and relevant.

what's next? push polling?

[stonebeat.org]

what's next? push polling???

Enterprise Linux users would be called up by SCO employees and asked:
"Would you be more likely or less likely to install Linux as a Server OS if you knew Linux has copied source code from SCO?"

Here's an idea.. Prevent the astroturfing campaign

[stratjakt]

By not posting SCO stories unless there's actual news. Like a final judgement that actually means something.

Everytime one of their lawyers cuts wind theres a /. story about it.

Don't give them the chance to astroturf. Simple enough. Just regurgitate more marketing text about the awesome power of the iPod or Tivo instead. It all goes to the same place.

In the water

[Anonymous Coward]

(btw: wtf is in the water out there? SCO, Orrin Hatch, etc.)

A lot of it is seige mentality. Don't forget it wasn't /that/ long ago that Utah was at war with the United States of America (and no, we're not talking about SCO vs. IBM). On top of this, throw in the whole persecution of Mormons and you'll get a bit of cultural paranoia. I've worked with a lot of people of the Jewish faith and some will share that a few thousand years of persecution tends to orient the survivors towards paranoia (remember, the ones who weren't paranoid in Germany and didn't flee didn't get to stick around to pass along their genes).

Granted the Mormons are a much younger microculture, but the defensiveness and inwardness is there. This often helps grow Mormon businesses, but tends to remove criticism and skepticism over false claims by a church member. Much of this defensiveness is still somewhat limited and not an embedded cultural practice - yet - but church leaders need to recognize this reactionary trend and correct or remove members that practice it.

Still, Mormons have done much to contribute to society. In fact, I'm perpetually amazed that so many don't condemn the SCO parasites and call them what they are as it goes so much against church teachings of open-paradigm systems. Remember, each new family that arrived in the valley was not regarded as another mouth to feed from a finite pie, but rather a new producer to make the pie bigger for everyone. If you have read "Seven Habits," "First Things First", or any other Steven Covey works, much of what you've read is a secular version of Mormonism applied to the business and personal domains. One of the legitimate heirs of the claim to "founding dot-com", Bill Washburn (executive director of the Commercial Internet Exchange, who fought against the NSFNET's plans for an Internet monopoly grant to the regional Bell operating companies and ANS, an IBM and MCI venture) and many other Internet leaders all hail from this open thinking, progressive faith (of which I am not, but have a great deal of respect for).

Open source shares much philosophically, so it is ironic that one of the greatest haters of open paradigm thought is Senator Hatch, and one of the greatest pump and dump anti-open paradigm companies (new SCO) both hail from Utah. Then again, we all have crooks we have to deal with in our respective faiths and communities from time to time.

Wake up Utah friends and throw these imposters out!

Re:In the water

[althalus]

Actually, most of the people around here are against SCO. Like you describe, most people detest the tactics they have used, because like the other 'mormon traits' you described (and rather well I'd say), most mormons detest litigation. Also, look at Novell. Most people here love Novell, because most everybody here has a relative working there. Now they now that Novell is against SCO, and so they should be too. Believe me, SCO does not have many friends here.

Re:In the water

[scoove]

Wow. I don't see many apologists outside the Church who write such artful defenses.

Hope I didn't come across as a Mormon apologist! I just hoped to share some observations I've had as someone who is outside of the faith who has worked with a few people from it. I spent a few years working with one of the largest retailers in the state, as well as some technology people, and had very positive impressions on how much the open paradigm was embraced.

In fact, at a late night coffee with Bill Washburn one night (at a conference we were both at), I asked him if he had read much Covey (as he was clearly one who practiced the concepts). He nearly dropped his coffee cup and immediately asked me why I made the comment. Turns out he grew up with Covey, and from the following dialog, it became more clear how the early open-system influence affected the culture.

Certainly, I've had non-Mormon friends flee Salt Lake City due to what they perceived as the career limitations applied to those outside the faith, and there probably is some truth there as well.

I guess my primary motivation was letting the /. crowd know that there's much to be appreciated and painting Mormons as all being like dear Darl is rather false. Pros and cons to everything, as always - take the best from each if you can!

And yes, I think Hatch is a twit.
Many do. Appears the only ones who don't write big enough checks, and Hatch must do the right things for him. Think of him as a terribly overpriced call girl and that'll help understand his role in society.

*scoove*
(ok... i won't hide anonymously on this thread!)

Re:In the water

[Zordak]

I am a Mormon, and I unfortunately live in Utah (had to follow the work, but I'm leaving in Feb), so I feel like I am qualified to say that SCOX, Darl McBride, Orrin Hatch and Hatch's idiot son are all, in Slashdot terminology, "teh suck." I think that the view on SCOX is shared by most tech-aware Mormons, though I'm not sure what these people are thinking in continuing to elect that troll Hatch. I know everybody wants to vote Republican, but that's what primaries are for -- you can get a candidate who is both Republican and human. [NOTE: I am already anticipating your Republican/Human jokes, so please don't think they make you clever]

Re:In the water

[sl3xd]

You know, there are more than a few of us in Utah that DO want these 'imposters' out.

That being said, I'm not quite sure what you mean by imposter; they don't seem to be pretending at all. They're bald-faced crap weasels.

Hatch doesn't pretend to be free of special interests. But he gets re-elected because he is nevertheless a force to be reckoned with on Capitol Hill, whose name is well-known throught the country. Excepting Ted Kennedy, I'm not sure there are many other senators whose names hold the public interest for more than an election campaign or news scandal. He's the head of the Senate Judiciary Comittee, as I recall -- a position of no small importance. Couple that kind of influence and position with the cultural paranoia -- as you put it, and you have a guy who the people will continue to support in spite of his flaws.

The land in the Western US is largely Federally controlled -- not privately or locally governed. This means that the Federal Government often has more say about what goes on with the land here than the citizens of Utah do. It's a big deal: There is a continual struggle between environmental groups who want to make Utah into a giant wilderness area (leagal definition of wilderness), a definitive tourist hiker's paradise (meaning that all motorized access is prohibited -- Even airlines can't fly over the area at 40,000 feet), and the groups that want to make a living from the land more directly, whether it be cattle ranching, or farming, or by developing the land -- mining, etc. The point is that the citizens of Utah CANNOT make these decisions; as a result, the people of Virginia often have more say about Utah's economy then Utahns do. This causes no small amount of resentment.

Case in point: We see hundreds of jobs and millions of tax dollars dissapear when then President Clinton declared about 3.2 million acres to be a national monument as an election year gesture to environmental groups. (Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument)

Whether it was a good decision, economically, environmentally, etc. isn't the point. The point is that the whole thing happened without any public input, without congressional approval (and in fact in spite of opposition), and definately without the approval of those who actually lived there. It was an election year ploy to get votes from people OUTSIDE Utah, and to hell with those people who live there.

So it's seen as a good thing to have a powerful Senator like Hatch, a man who heads the Senate Judiciary Committee. If any 'new' guy ousts him, Utah starts back at square one, with a much weaker voice in national (and indeed local) politics. With Hatch there, the state gets a louder voice; without it, we get rolled over. So Hatch gets re-elected. Any corruption (perceived or real) is a moot point. Suffice it to say, there are a great many of us who don't appreciate our Senator either; and we vote(d) against him. So what?

The fact remains: He's a powerful man on capitol hill, and still watches out for Utah's interests more often than not; and that is a fair sight better than a man with no influence on capitol hill who watches out for Utah's interests more often than not.

On the other hand, Darl seems to be acting quite consistently with the behavior of an arrogant, wealthy (by the general standard of US living), greedy man. This arrogance is quite universal in every part of the world, so I don't see how geography or local culture really applies.

It's really easy to envision Darl as an exec for a major record label; same arrogance, same desire to take what is not his, same everything. Nobody voted for them either, but we have to deal with them.

Re:Here's an idea.. Prevent the astroturfing campa

[Otter]

Yeah, I liked that part of "sudden fondness for Slashdot". As though getting endless free coverage from the obsessive Linux media hasn't been part of their plan from day one. I'm still not sure if people like the Slashdot editors simply don't realize they're being played like fish or if they just regard controversy as a win-win situation for both themselves and SCO.

What's in Utah's water?

[Anonymous Coward]

btw: wtf is in the water out there? SCO, Orrin Hatch, etc

Salt, yes. But more importantly: Sea Monkeys!

Yes, Utah's origional "not quite what it seems" business comes from the primary life form of the Great Salt Lake.

Remember the joy and excitement as you read the testimony on the back of your comic book about ordering and caring for your very own Sea Monkey family - no, kingdom! For only $24.95, you could be the god of a small world of miniture water people, kept in a tank in your bedroom.

How many of us raced our order down to the post office and waited each and every day for our little world to show up in the mail. The anticipation and expectation was tremendous. And could you ever forget the brutality of our crushed dreams when we discovered these little water people were... brine shrimp?!!! How could they do this to an idealistic child?

Yes, SCO has so much in common with its Sea Monkey marketing kin. The false claims. The hype. The dreams. The promise of owning the Linux world. Only to be dashed by painful realities. Worse yet, the commonalities in the executive qualities and mental dynamics of the two entities leaders is downright terrifying.

Oh, the horror of the Salt Lake's hollow promises!!!

A pretty absurd theory from PJ

[SimianOverlord]

I don't know if she's noticed but Slashdot is moderated. And also, again I'm not sure if she's worked it out - SCO aren't popular around here. So an astroturfing campaign is likely to be moderated to oblivion. (Well, oblivion is a bit harsh. Actually one post will be modded down, then the subnet IP ban will kick in, preventing any other posts, and also preventing the entire eastern seaboard of the USA from making anonymous posts as collatoral damage. Nice one CT.)

A more likely motivation for McBride's praise of Slashdot is that it was an attempt to slime Groklaws system of deleting posts. Trying to suggest some suppression of legitimate viewpoints. In other words, more FUD.Here be post deleters.

I always figured McBride had a screw loose somewhere, after all he is probably headed for what is technically known as a federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison, but to actually praise Slashdot? If I were an investor I'd be breaking into a cold sweat. I wonder if he also eats his own excrement now, and hums tunelessly to himself while rocking back and forth.

More Enderle Gems

[reptilicus]

Don't forget, this is the man who predicted Apple would switch over to all Intel processors before the end of 2003, and of course, that the iTunes Music Store would never fly with Windows users, because it was arriving after hugely successful Windows music stores like BuyMusic.com.

Interesting view of NSFNET, CIX history

[jgs]

This is pretty far offtopic, but this calls for a response:

the Commercial Internet Exchange, who fought against the NSFNET's plans for an Internet monopoly grant to the regional Bell operating companies and ANS, an IBM and MCI venture

The part of my brain this history is stored in hasn't been accessed for a while, but suffice it to say that the above is only one, fairly debatable, perspective on Internet history.

Here's a half-decent capsule history of the NSFNET which provides a different (more accurate, from my keyhole) spin. The tag line of the article is "The National Science Foundation's enlightened management of the NSFNET facilitated the Internet's first period of explosive public growth." Which is pretty accurate as happy-talk goes.

The NSFNET was a good thing. The CIX was (in retrospect) a good thing. Figuring out how to move the Internet from being largely taxpayer-funded to being primarily commercial was a good thing. It certainly wasn't painless or without friction, but it was driven mostly by people of good will, not smoke-filled rooms where evil government bureaucrats were plotting to grant monopolies to their bell-head cronies.

The CIX, at the outset, wasn't a "fight against a monopoly". It was a way for folks to move commercial traffic between their networks without making inappropriate use of the taxpayer-funded NSFNET.

Re:SCO's side

[lspd]

And he [McBride] predicted that "open blogs" like Slashdot will start to tell SCO's side of the story, and then the media will get to understand what is really going on.

Been there, done that...

The problem is that SCO built their business model around maintaining the status quo rather than fixing any legal problems that may or may not exist. Their ultimate goals hinge on SCO code existing in Linux and REMAINING HIDDEN SO THAT IT CAN'T BE REMOVED. Since SCO is betting on this legal catch-22 game and has refused consistently to provide the information necessary to fix the problems they claim exist, it doesn't make any sense to play along.

If SCO decides to drop the catch-22 game and focus on recouping damages from the people who donated the code improperly, I for one would be happy to examine their side of the story. They talk and talk and talk about how they want to fix this stuff, and they never ever make the slightest baby step toward following through. Accusations, innuendo, and vague references to "millions of lines of code" do not constitute working with the free software community to fix problems.

At this point though, even if SCO changed course and worked with the community....would you really believe their intentions were honest? Without new management, I couldn't.

Re:SCO vs. Groklaw

[donnz]

It's worse than that now. The "media" is very aware of Groklaw these days and very seldom prints straight SCO press releases (I know because I will call and email journalists if I think they have mis-represented a point).

Obviously rather than tell the truth (that they are were lying) SCO have only one recourse - discredit the most thourough analytical source.

This, to SCO and MS, is now even more urgent as Groklaw (and others) are turning their attention to IP laws and I predict this will have the same public impact as it has had on the credibility of SCO's case.

PS Still looking for a "+5 Astroturfer" on this thread, comeon SCO.

Groklaw vs. SCO, no contest

[wardk]

SCO seems to have this fondness of picking on those that can thoroughly kick it's ass. but then again, it's fights are obviously chosen by others who are too chickenshit to fight themselves.

Darl's is obviously a puppet, aparently this Enderle creep is too. Amazing what can be found under rocks if you are up to scraping away enough slime.

yep, MS found a couple of real specimens in these two. funny, I recently sent a very similar specimen to my septic tank. MS may want to use some soap when they're done.

gee, maybe SCO can print grassroots articles with photos of "real people" that totally agree with their bullshit story...photos that will be immediately found in common clip art libraries. MS has set a great example for such bozo tactics.

the trailer park has certainly gone downhill since Darl & company moved in. but nothing an IBM tornado can't clean up.

Re:I wonder if...

[Ohreally_factor]

And /. is moderated. If you're reading at -1... astroturfing by SCO is the least of your concerns. For my purposes (I want to only read semi-interesting comments about SCO), Groklaw is unmoderated.

No. PJ deletes posts arbitrarily. I had a post deleted that was sligtly critical of some of her editorial histrionics (remember when she compared Linus to a baby seal?) I tried to be humorously chiding, not overtly negative, because I do find much value Groklaw. I just find the over-the-top editorializing to be. . . embarrassing.

It's unfortunate that what is otherwise a great source for SCO news has also become something of a cult, and that the cult leader embraces this role and seeks to consolidate it by making paranoid accusations.

There's something Stalinesque about the whole thing. "Let's all pull together for the good of OSS by rooting out the SCO moles in our midst" is kind of chilling.

If you live in SLC, you can't miss the symbolism

[Anonymous Coward]

The headquarters of the Mormon church and the state legislature are on the same hill next to each other in SLC.

You'd have to be pretty stupid not to understand the symbolism there.

It reminds me why I'm glad we have as much church/state separation the rest of the US. Mormons individually are great people. In a pack, they scare the *hell* out of me.

Re:I wonder if...

[nmos]

Why bother with the entire prologue, except that it makes good "press" when written by someone who's now a "journalist".

Most of those comments were making fun of Endrel's speech. If you havn't read it I can see how PJ's prologue might seem a bit bizzarre.

#1 Pamela remains *very* uncomfortable with her awkward relationship to OSRM, but doesn't want to talk about it

What other choice does she have?

#2 Pamela absolutely will not compromise on "it's my damn blog and I'll censor^W delete posts^W^W run it like I want" despite how it plays to any larger audience outside of Groklaw itself

Not to state the obvious but it IS her damn blog. BTW this thread would have been removed had it appeared on Groklaw because of the word "damn" and no doubt someone would assume it had been deleted for other reasons.

#3 there are still a whole bunch of people who are still worked up about these issues; see the Yahoo! Finance SCOX board, where the discussion about all of this continues unabated after a full week since the OSRM study popped up

No doubt. The position paper and the product being sold by OSRM actually seem pretty reasonable to me but the marketing has been horrible. I had hoped that they would issue a clarification and clean up their marketing act when this first blew up but the longer they let this sit the more it stinks.

#4 fewer and fewer people are even bothering to try to discuss *any* of this at Groklaw itself, so Pamela's "Groklaw's being attacked" "Groklaw's being attacked" meme is succeeding

Pretty much everything has already been said.

Re:They already tried a blitz. Didn't work.

[rtb61]

You can't liquidate all your liabilities. SCO's slanderous comments and questionable legal behaviour transfers to the company that buys them. Should any company with significant assets (IBM, Microsoft etc.) buy them, they would be immediately subject to civil suits for the past and currently continuing abuses of SCO.

SCO bears enormous risks of class action law suits (Globally), the only thing preventing this from happening now is that everybody knows that they would be a burnt out husk of no value before you could finalise the law suit.

No company can afford to buy SCO, it has become an inevitable bankruptcy waiting to happen with the liquidators being the ones to sell what little value is left in SCO's supposed IP. With support from the beast drying up as the publicity campaign has backfired it looks to be happening sooner rather than latter.