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Nvidia 6600 Series Examined
DrunkenTerror writes "Yesterday at QuakeCon, Nvidia debuted their new affordable GPU mentioned a few days ago on Slashdot. Dubbed the GeForce 6600 and 6600 GT, they differ from their higher-end brethren by having only 8 pixel pipes (unlike the 12 & 16 of the 6800 line), and appear to be limited to 128MB of RAM. Both GPUs support Shader Model 3.0. The 6600 GT sports fast GDDR3 RAM, while the 6600 appears to use plain-jane DDR. The GT also supports the oft-recently-discussed SLI, which could 'enable millions of users to experience the power of two GPUs in their system.' The best part, however, may be the price/performance. With a suggested street price of US$199, the 6600 GT runs at a steady 42 FPS in Doom 3, at high-quality 1600*1200." Reader aceh0 adds a few links: "Nvidia is announcing their NV4x Sub $200 Level graphics hardware today with the GeForce 6600 Series. The 6600 Series is feature complete with the 6800s and the differences come in the number of pipelines and memory configuration. SLI has trickled down to the 6600GT as well. Coverage is available at Neoseeker, Tech Report and PC Perspective as well as other sites."
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/2004080 6105201.html
"GeForce 6600 GT cards come with a 500 MHz clock and memory rate, 128-bit (GDDR3, 128 MB) and will cost $200-230, GeForce 6600 with 128-bit bus (GDDR, 128 MB) will cost $150. According to preliminary results and unconfirmed tests GeForce 6600 GT performs 20% better than RADEON 9800XT. "
TruePunk | Games
Now we just need a motherboard with 2 PCIe 16X slots. Some of Intel's new server-class motherboards have it but they cost around $500.
It is limited to 256MB, but most manufactures will be shipping 128mb versions.
I.E. I noticed a bigger jump in performance by upgrading my mainboard, cpu, and memory while retaining my relatively mediocre (but fully DirectX 9 compliant) graphics card, whereas my friend who had a similar configuration spent his cash on the latest Nvidia and didn't seem to come out significantly ahead.
If you can afford all of the above, I suppose this is the card for you (hell get two and run them together). But too often gamers focus on the graphics to the overall detriment of their performance.
http://www.finclockers.com/uutiskuvat/GeForce6600. pdf
Just in case anyone wants to check it out.
TruePunk | Games
which will need to have a true GPU in order to run it's rendering engine much like Mac. If NVIDIA doesn't have a low end GPU it wouldn't get as big a part of the market.
US$199, the 6600 GT runs at a steady 42 FPS in Doom 3, at high-quality 1600*1200
In the end, regardless of what memory is being used, and what technologies, if I can play the newest game at its highest level of graphics at 42fps, then I'm a happy gamer, especially when the price is under $200 (USD).
It should be noted that these cards will initially only arrive with PCI Express support. Given the fact that most people have only AGP ports, this is a barrier to adoption. It has been reported that AGP versions will follow.
I always save my last mod point to mod up a good troll. You people are too serious.
OK glad I got that off my chest. Now, I run Linux and the only real gaming I do is in NeveWinter Nights. Maybe because I do not do any First Person Shooter / Real time gaming I do not notice a problem, but all my computers run the $49.00 special, Geforce card. I really like Geforce Cards. I love Nvidias support for Linux. I appreciate all you hard core gamers buying the new cards so they keep dropping the price on the other cards. I just can't get enthusiastic over a new video card when the ones I have a perofrming adequately.
Insert Generic Sig Here:
This is going to be a very interesting comparison when the 6600 series comes out. Up until now, one could assume, at least in part, that a lot of the performance gains in the new NVidia 68xx series of hardware comes from the additional pipelines. I'd like very much to see how the 6600 series stack up against their older 8-pipeline brethren and ATI's 8-pipeline cards, such as the Radeon 97xx/98xx models.
Never look down your nose at others. Someday, someone is bound to see your boogers.
I'm running Linux with the latest nvidia-kernel with a Geforce 4ti. Since this is by nvidia, could I just swap out my cards for the 6600 and keep going on my merry way? Or should I wait for new drivers to come out?
Just wondering...
"Music is everybody's possession. It's only publishers who think that people own it." - John Lennon.
Faster cards for gamers may be nice, but what I'm really interested in is a better card for my MythTV box. My main concern is having MPEG decoding for HDTV output and minimal heat output (no fans).
I seem to recall nVidia promising better MPEG/HDTV support in there upcoming cards. Will the low-end of this generation be fanless?
2x6600 card: $400
New Pci express motherboard: $150
New case (cause you know your old pc will just be termed a "server"): $100
New faster 1GB ram: $200
New cpu because you're buying the other stuff anyway: $250
Bigger sata 300 GB HD because bittorents are all about sharing: $200
Wife cutting off your broadband connection: priceless
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a fat white guy who is threatened by change."
Something is wrong with your system.
... unless you are running a 1GHz processor or something I suggest completely uninstalling all ATI drivers, etc, and then re-installing them after a couple of reboots.
My 128MB 9500 does better than that
I read online that Half Life 2 will be in ATI's favour though.
But yeah, ~50fps in Doom 3 at 1280x1024 at high settings is quite a compelling reason to buy a $200 graphics card.
As nifty as the card sounds, the hype of SLI might be just that - as the Tech Report preview points out, there aren't any sub-$500 motherboards currently the sport dual PCI-Express slots. For people looking to incrementally upgrade, they'll have to factor in needed a new motherboard as well. We can only hope an "nForce3.5" chipset with dual PCI-Express slots and a sane price point shows up in tandem with the new cards...
Apple has a special version of the 6800 called the Dual Dual Link that can be doubled up to stack two of their new 30 inch monitors. In total this would give you 8.2 million pixels.
A ppleStore.woa/71801/wo/Xh3MfiiL68pu26PtlpU8CzA3csU /0.0.9.1.0.6.21.1.2.1.3.0.0.1.0
Does anyone know if this $600 card will work on Windows?
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
PCI Express is not PCI. The bandwidth is completely different. PCI is 133MB/s. PCI Express is 200MB/s per x1. PCI Express graphics cards can be x16. Check the ASUS P5AD4 Premium motherboard for a look at some of the new connectors. Thunder
No
The chip is native PCI Express. NVidia apparently is betting on the success of a second chip that they made for AGPPCI Express translation. The chip can operate in both directions and thus older GPUs can use this chip to work with PCI Express boards and this new 6600 GPU can use this same chip in the other direction to work with AGP boards. I wonder how much of a slowdown this chip brings though.
Morphing Software
Not to take points away from the article, but if you're looking to get a graphics card, take a peek at Nvidia's 6800 GT.
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16 pipelines AND it can *easily* be overclocked from it's 350Mhz core / 1000 Mhz memory to the 425/1100 speeds of a 6800 Ultra (which is $150 more).
Compare benchmarks: http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_doom3_benchmark
ATI's X800 Pro has 12 pipelines.
I dunno, if you're gonna spend money on a graphics card, might as well go balls-out with this one. Best deal I've seen on a card in quite some time.
We have secretly replaced these Slashdot mods' sense of humor with a rusty nail. Let's see if they notice!!
And I'll bet they cost pennies less to make than the higher-end chips. Translation: the higher-end chips should cost pennies -- not hundreds of $$$s -- more to buy.
Think about it. How much has it cost Nvidia to engineer this new chip? Either it is a crippled version of their existing chip, or they had to re-engineer it, make new masks, and setup a new, qualified production line at quite high costs.
Wouldn't we -- and they -- have been better off if they just punched out larger quanitites of the higher-end chips at less cost?
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
I must admit, I agree with some other posters that your situation just shouldn't be right.. I'm running 1024x with "high" graphics on a MUCH lesser graphics card (2500+ and a 9500 Pro).
But, instead of having an FPS pissing contest, lemme offer a couple tips: Install the beta 4.9 catalysts, they're manditory for acceptable ATI Doom3 preformance.
THEN, do a search for Doom 3 tweaks. There's an astonishing array of things you can modify to GREATLY improve preformance, most importantly including a number of changes to the Doom 3 config file.. Additionally, unpacking the pak's with WinRar helps a lot too. Anandtech has some good links / guides to these tweaks. DO check it out, DO use them.
Before installing the 4.9 cat's and doing a ton of these tweaks I was eeking out around 11 FPS (fo' real, brotha) if I dared up my graphics to the level I have them at now... Afterwards, I virtually never drop below 30 (Keeping in mind that I'm really pushing the settings higher than would seem reasonable with my gear, this is exceptional).
DO IT!
And how many people are disturbed by this on their 85Hz to 110Hz vertical refresh monitors? More than should be, I'll bet.
Standard movies only run at 24fps, and American television is only a true 30fps (1/2 of the interlaced frame is written every 1/60 of a second). Demanding frame rates much above those seems an absurd form of posturing.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
It may seem absurd, but there are legitimate reasons why 3D cards need a higher framerate to represent the same smooth motion of 24fps movies.
I've explained this before, and I'll do it again. Television and video have motion blur-- the effect of the capture device essentially "averaging" the motion that occurred across the duration of capturing that frame.
Video cards generate a crisp, instantaneous frame that represents only the precise instant the frame was rendered, not the whole time the "shutter" was open.
At a *bare minimum* producing motion that looks as smooth as blurred 24fps requires double that. (You have to have two frames for your eye to blur between) To do it as well as a film camera requires even more, since their motion blur is effectively an infinite number of samples averaged together over the duration the shutter was open. I'd guess you could get a reasonable approximation at 3x the framerate.
TV and Movies are also filmed with the 24fps limitation in mind-- good cinematographers are well aware of the limits and know how to avoid situations that would result in jerky movement.
Of course, ATI can't write an OpenGL ICD to save their lives. Actually, their drivers are buggy in general.
I'll admit that ATI seems to have better technology. But drivers are everything. EVERYTHING. And Nvidia wins that battle, hands down.
This has already been done for the 6800 series!
Wonder if it's been tested on the 6600 yet?
Pipeline mod app
Then I guess I need to file a bug report with them if they're so responsive.
...
It's such a fine line between stupid and clever.
You should still notice a pretty good difference. Most games store the really bandwidth intensive stuff (textures, vertex arrays) on the video card, and then just run the commands over the bus to display those. The only problem you really run into is when you don't have enough onboard memory on the card and have to move data from main memory to the card. However, most games are optimized to try and avoid that situation.
Reserved Word.
From the article:
Can I mix and match?
No. NVIDIA doesn't support SLI on two different models or from different vendors. SLI supports configurations with the same model (i.e. 6800 Ultra) from the same vendor (Vendor XYZ)
What cards can work together in an SLI configuration?
All PCI Express based GeForce 6800 Ultra, GeForce 6800 GT, or NVIDIA Quadro FX 3400 boards support SLI technology. Boards must be the exact same model number and from the same vendor - for example, two GeForce 6800 Ultras from Vendor XYZ. For Quadro boards, they should be identical model numbers, for example Quadro FX 3400.
Also-
What motherboards will work with SLI technology?
SLI technology requires a PCI Express motherboard. Current configurations support motherboards with two x16 physical connectors. The graphics cards plug into these connectors. The cards can work with whatever routing because x16 PCI Express connectors can auto-negotiate down to x8, or x4 electrical.
Note that you have to have at least 2 PCI-e slots with x16 connectors...
Ahem. I believe you meant "nVidia dethroned 3dfx". I don't recall ATI being a major player until fairly recently. Yup, my bad. Actually, "nVidia ate 3dfx for breakfast" would be more accurate ;) I remember how much stir the TNT line created when first presented.