Slashdot Mirror
OS Stats Removed From Google's Zeitgeist
Kelly McNeill writes "Google's Zeitgeist service is sometimes used by news sources as a resource to generate install-base (don't call it market share!), statistics for operating systems. osViews contacted Google to bring some clarity to questionable aspects of the OS statistic, to which Google said that Zeitgeist is only a fun search inquiry resource and should not be used to generate statistical information. A couple days after that inquiry, we found that Google has since removed the OS stats from the Zeitgeist service."
I know a lot of people were waiting to see the July browser stats to see if Internet Explorer share dropped off after the vulnerability announcements last month.
Google doesn't index user sigs, so stop trying to "Google Bomb" with them.
I have a question for slashdot... can I use your polls for scientific research? Will my request result in slashdot removing their polls section? What kind of a crazy assed reaction is this? Why not just put a disclaimer up on the page that says, not scientific.
---
Programming is like sex... Make one mistake and support it the rest of your life.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Looooooooonix?
I think I speak for everyone when I say...
Please put `em back!
Hopefully MSN will pick up where Google left off and provide free unbiased stats.
If people are citing Google's "just for fun" figures as something to base critical decisions on, Google could be subject to liability for the accuracy of the figures. Granted, it's not likely that a lawsuit would succeed, but simply having to defend against one wouldn't be very good.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Good riddance, as I agree with OsViews that the statistic was scarcely credible. All the same, I'd like to see a more finely-tuned version come out someday that does reflect the OS of google users come out someday. That truly would be a useful rubric with which to track the 'zeitgeist' of the net.
Who needs an operating system when you run all your services through a portal on a cross platform environment like the web?
That the OS/browser stats would not be too reliable (I assume they are computed similarly, via the User Agent String) I can also easily understand.
That they took the stats off Zeitgeist, however, that's what I don't get. Wonder if they are now a bit paranoid about all things media after their recent faux pas?
BTW, those who don't like reading the articles would wish all stories were like this ;)
The revolution will not be televised.
I've been considering that for awhile. I think Google would do really well if they produced a complete operating system that leveraged their web services and PageRank technology. Imagine if you could finally get rid of those annoying directory structures and just used "Google Hard Drive Search"! And all your bookmarks could be searched in a similar fashion! No need to bother with organizing them!
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
The big problem with the Zeitgeist stats, from what I've heard, is that they only recorded the same IP address once. For people who are more likely to have a broadband connection, which is probably true of Mac and Linux users, they get counted less because their IP address changes less frequently. As Google said, it's just for fun.
It's a real shame Google have removed this interesting stat as it is as good as any browser/os statistic available due to the huge an ecletic user base of Google.
I guess things are changing at Google and their free , open and considerate attitude is set to change with the IPO.
The search results I've been getting from Google have been decreasing in usefulness at an alarming rate over the last year - it's sad to see Google go this way.
----
Is there a Google cache of Google's Zeitgeist?
quidquid latine dictum sit altum videtur.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I, for one, would be very interested in seeing the browser and OS breakdown on Slashdot. IIRC, slashdot has not given out this info in the past?
Problem in Database Connection
This Website is powered by PostNuke
Web site powered by PostNuke ADODB database libraryPHP Scripting Language
Although this site is running the PostNuke software
it has no other connection to the PostNuke Developers.
Please refrain from sending messages about this site or its content
to the PostNuke team, the end will result in an ignored e-mail.
You surely do live in the greatest country in the world.
With Google getting it's ammended statements accepted, it means that Google stock will start being traded as early as tomorrow. They already dropped the initial IPO, and I'm sure they are being very cautious about causing any investor worries.
I bet that after their stock has had a couple months to stabilize, this will be addressed.
Mythos : Logos
Sadly, this removal had to happen given who Google's competitors are going to be in search space. No doubt they will continue to record the information, but it won't be public anymore.
To-do List: Receive telemarketing call during a tornado warning. Check.
Many companies have policies fobiding their employees from commenting on public discussion boards about their company or products. It would not surprise me if Google had this.
...was so people can't refer to Zeitgeist's damning 1% Linux usage statistic anymore when discussing desktop Linux. If you disagree, let me know why.
According to this page:
http://www.illuminedgaming.com/eogoogle.htm
(What google will look like in 10 years)
Google will OWN the earth...so what is the need for OS?
Hmmm...now that this is on /., will the search for "Natalie Portman" stay on the Top 10 Declining Queries?
Inquiring minds want to know!
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
http://www.google.ca/press/zeitgeist.html
Google has pulled OS stats from the US Zeitgeist but Canada still has them. And Lindsay Lohan has pulled ahead of Avril Lavigne.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
Will relevant text ads be displayed based on the content of your files? Or will you have to pay to run Google OS?
Win a signed Stephen Carpenter ESP Guitar from the Deftones: http://def-tag.com/?r=0008781
The USS Enterprise was originally given the CV-6 designation to demonstrate that she was a "Carrier Vessel". However, after extensive war operations she was refitted for nighttime/round-the-clock operations. To signify this, her designation was changed to CVN-6 (Carrier Vessel, Night).
I don't know where you get your facts from, but they're all wrong. The USS Enterprise had the designation NCC-1701. (CC being Constitution-Class)
After Kirk blew up the original Enterprise, the USS Levant (NCC-1843) was redesignated USS Enterprise (NCC-1701-A). And AFAIK, she did not only have round-the-clock operations, the ship was fitted for full five-year missions!
I wonder if this is the first string of changes we can expect from Google?
I've always found Google to be like a fun friend: putting fun cartoons on special days, promoting their employee bicyclist, april fools jokes, Zeitgeist, google-toolbar for the benefit of all humanity. This gave me a sense that not only where there normal (albeit brilliant) humans behind this deceptively simple search engine, but that they were passionate about what they did and really cared about your well-being. They dared to change the world and they refused to be bullied around while doing so.
With the words IPO and Playboy in the air and with them having to answer to shareholders instead of their own wit, will we see a change in the Google we have grown to love? Now that they have sucked us into their happy world will they give us huge banner ads and pop-ups?
With their stock will they sell their dignity? I sure hope not.
can't sleep. clowns will eat me.
While you may be correct as to the reasoning that prompted them to do this, it begs the question...
.... they were sued by Louis Farakahan when they did a crowd size estimate of the Million Man March, that Farakhan said, was intentionally smaller than it really was.
How fucked up of a society do we live in that people can't provide interesting statistics out of fear of being sued?
This legal bullshit is the same reason that the US Park Service refuses to release any kind of estimates on crowd sizes for protests in Washington D.C.
Insanity.
I think that if Google's leadership were to try such a thing, they'd be more interested in positioning Google to create an entirely Web-based desktop that is platform agnostic, than a traditional OS.
During the dotcom era, there was a company out of Maryland (sorry, can't remember the name...WorldOS, maybe?) trying to do this very thing. And there was the Network of Workstations project, that was started at UC-Berkeley (1996 to 1998).
Why would Google write an OS specific to any one hardware architecture, when, as we all know, "The network is the computer"?
---anactofgod---
"Equal opportunity swindling - *that* is the true test of a sustainable democracy."
I am the owner of osViews.com and the individual that submitted this slashdot post. It appears as if the article got slashdotted.
Unfortunately, I don't have a second copy of the article otherwise I would post it here. My Slashdot summarization pretty much captured the gist of the editorial, however there is one part that should be mentioned.
In Google's Zeitgeist statistic there was a 5% figure that represented what the OS statistic as "other". I thought that this was bizarre because the Linux and Mac statistics even combined were less than the "other" which encapsulated them all.
I don't believe that the more obscure OSes make up a number that is larger than both Linux and mac combined. This is what prompted me to call Google to get some clarity.
i thought that perhaps Google was doing some subdivisions within the Linux or Mac stats.
For example, Google might have only been reporting 3% to represent the OS X installations as opposed to all Mac users and then grouped the non OS X users (Mac Pre OS X) into the aforementioned "other" category.
Monthly updates in HTML format, here: http://www.google.com/press/zeitgeist/archive.html
Google has GoogleGuy who responds on a lot of forums. From what I understand, it mostly one guy, but it's a generic name so that anyone that works at google can step up and fill in for him.
You mean like Apple is planning to do with Spotlight in Tiger?
p
In Korea, long hair is for old people!
Google's Zeitgeist service is sometimes used by news sources as a resource to generate install-base (don't call it market share) statistics for operating systems. osViews contacted Google to bring some clarity to questionable aspects of the OS statistic to which Google said that Zeitgeist is only a fun search inquiry resource and should not be used to generate statistical information. A couple days after that inquiry, we found that Google has since removed the OS stats from the Zeitgeist service.
--
Many of us are familiar with Google's Zeitgeist resource which analyses search patters, trends and miscellaneous surprises as how it relates to the way people search the Google search engine. Up until recently, the company also provided operating system statistics of those that accessed Google.
Many news sources have started using Zeitgeist as a means to get statistics that suggest operating system install base. Because of this, osViews repeatedly contacted Google to get clarity for the statistic, which provided some odd stats. (example: 5% of the OS demographic was comprised of multiple OSes which Google categorized as "other."
We thought this odd because Mac and Linux OSes TOGETHER didn't reach 5%. How could the more obscure OSes (even combined) create a larger group unless Linux or Mac were being subdivided by the Google stat. Example: Google's 3% Mac statistic might theoretically only represent OS X users as opposed to all Macintosh users.
Google replied back saying that they are not to talk to the media in any way throughout the "quiet period" that must precede a company's initial public offering, but did say that Zeitgeist is not meant to be regarded as a statistical resource to gauge a demographic of any type. Rather, it is simply a fun resource to analyze search patterns.
After alerting the search company to the fact that many news organizations have started using Zeitgeist's OS stats resource as a means of generating operating system install base statistics, the company replied back with the same response.
Today we noticed that Google has removed the OS stats from the Zeitgeist service.
In Google's Zeitgeist statistic there was a 5% figure that represented what the OS statistic as "other". I thought that this was bizarre because the Linux and Mac statistics even combined were less than the "other" which encapsulated them all.
There's a large network traffic generated not by human surfers but by various bots, scanning the Web for whatever purpose. The bots often identify themselves in a strange way - a comprehensive list of their user-agents can be found here and I always thought that this is actually the majority of the mysterious "other". They are not human users of desktop OS'es, but bots running automated google searches. What do you think?
I love how people keep saying Microsoft has already done this when the product won't be out for another 2 - 3 years.
I think it is more correct to say, "Microsoft is trying to do this with WinFS."
I still think Google would be able to get this "Out the door" before Longhorn arrives if they wanted to since they are in the data searching business.
Stop believing the hype. Longhorn is NOT a product yet.
BeOS was very cool in this regard. You could keep a window open on your desktop with a search string, and as you updated/deleted/moved/renamed files on your machine, the window would update itself live.
As a matter of fact, you could also define and search custom attributes, so you could build a flat file database on top of the BFS filesystem, and your desktop queries would update themselves as records went in and out...
(that's the thing about BeOS I miss the most)
There's a few things you're missing on your sig.
1) Slashdot had the same bias well before OSDN (then Andover) expressed interest in buying them.
2) As a general rule, all tech news is biased. You aren't likely to find unbiased news anywhere.
3) Slashdot rose from obscurity at a time when the more mainstream news sources' bias was almost entirely opposing Slashdot's bias.
Granted - that probably won't all fit.
That'e because it hasn't been updated yet.
.com has July's stats, the .ca only has June's.
The
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
Someone who works at osViews.com submits an article about osViews.com. Jeez, people, buy an ad!
It's a very dark ride.
http://www.google.com/press/zeitgeist/jan04_pie.gi f i f i f i f i f i f i f
http://www.google.com/press/zeitgeist/feb04_pie.g
http://www.google.com/press/zeitgeist/mar04_pie.g
http://www.google.com/press/zeitgeist/apr04_pie.g
http://www.google.com/press/zeitgeist/may04_pie.g
http://www.google.com/press/zeitgeist/jun04_pie.g
July doesn't seem to be there
http://www.google.com/press/zeitgeist/aug04_pie.g
That's funny, because I sure see them on my machine. Maybe yours is broken? Look at the "June 2004 [HTML]" link under Monthly Updates, and in the upper right corner on the first screen, you can see "Operating systems used to access Google". This is the same statistic that the article references.
Couldn't 'other' just qualify as anything that didn't fit the exact match of Mac/Win/Lin? I don't know what goes into making a web browser spit out what OS it runs on, but if that string of text, for whatever reason, was not matching the exact result expected from Google's stats machine, than it would just drop to other. I would assume many of the 'other' category were Win/Lin/Mac, but for whatever reason, failed to be categorized as such.
As you can see, the user agent string gets quite silly as you go down the list, but Internet Explorer is definately losing popularity.
Back in 2002, I mirored another story; the breakdown is available here.
The wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.
no, its goonix
it was embarassing to show 75% Windows hits
The embarassment probably arises from reading too much into the statistics. Here's one reason why.
Even if people are technically sophisticated and highly pro-Unix/Linux/*BSD, if they play many PC games then they probably have at least one separate box running Windoze. I have three, because I like to multi-box with several accounts in MMOGs. I treat the boxes as games consoles and not as computers, ie. there is nothing of any importance on them besides the games. All my real computers run some flavour of Unix. Such restricted use of Windoze isn't all that rare either --- several of my gaming friends do this too.
When one isn't gaming though, those Windoze boxes would be going to waste if unused, so it's only natural to have Mozilla or Firefox installed on them and use them for browsing. That's a use that creates no investment in the flakey MS platform, so it's acceptable.
Inevitably, this skews the stats gathered by webservers, but hey, I can think of worse problems in the world today. Reading too much into stats never was a safe thing to do anyway.
"The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
Drop this into /usr/share/services/useragentstrings and you can conveniently select it from Konqueror's "Tools/Change Browser Identification" menu at once. In 51 different languages. (-:
If you like melting webmaster brain cells, use this instead.
My mailserver used to answer as a "Commodore 64 (with anti-spam cartridge)".
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
What does it matter if Linux is used by 1% of the visitors to Google or not? In the end, regardless of how many people use Linux, isn't it more important that those of us who do are happily being productive, saving money on software and and (if you are so inclined) being a bit more ethical? I use Linux pretty much exclusively at home and at work. I use Windows at work when I need to as well as Solaris, HP-UX and VMS. I've toyed with the BSDs, and I even pull out my Atari ST for notalgia. The soon-to-arrive baby is getting my wife's old Mac for the nursery. It's all good. For me the biggest selling point for Linux is that all the money I save on software allows me to spend more of my money on hardware. Now who can argue that more money for hardware is a bad thing? Stats be damned. For those of us who enjoy Linux, there is nothing that can be said to take away that feeling. Many of us are willing to help others get accustomed and aren't lunatic fanboys. I think in the end, there will be more of us than there are those types of people.
Un-news
"Think about mobile devices, macs, hell even old audreys, but don't just pin your customers into active x."
If the customer asks for their site to be compatible with internet explorer, then unless you want to take up the slack and pay for testing that the client is not paying for, the developer will not test things for free. A developer will not spend several days testing a site with every configuration known to man for free - how do you expect them to pay their bills?
"Really they just want text, links that work, lots of pictures, availability to their customers and security"
I take it you have never done web development for customers? Availability, security and links that work are assumed. What they ask for is a site that stands out from their competitors, usually they have a very large idea and have to cut it down somewhat when you quote them. If all you offer is a site with links and pictures then they will go elsewhere. You would be surprised what they ask for, (I have had a client insist that I use frames, even after I had developed a perfectly good non-frames site that worked very well). This of course brings up the problem - the flashier the site, the harder it is to make cross-platform. If the contract states for the site to work in IE only, and making some flashy shiny thing work in Mozilla is going to be a pain, then the developer will make the thing work in IE only, as that is what they are paid to do.
You seem to forget that a lot of these developers are paid on a per job basis, not wage or salary. If you were developing a site for your boss, and he only asked for it to work in IE, would you volunteer to work for half a week without pay just so it would also work in Mozilla, on mobile devices etc? I think not.
I had noticed the browser/OS stats thing the other day and sent an email about it. To my surprise I got back an answer from "David Lemin" (dlemin@google.com) within a couple hours: Thank you for your inquiry regarding the Google Zeitgeist. As a result of user feedback we have decided to focus our efforts on the international expansion of the Google Zeitgeist and will no longer be publishing data about Web browsers, operating systems and languages used to access Google. You can view historic data in the Google Zeitgeist archives, http://www.google.com/press/zeitgeist/archive.html . ...Which is interesting, though I'm having trouble believing the thing about "user feedback". Were there that many people complaining about the stats in some way?
Many, many, many times have I been counted as a "Windows user" by Google's zeitgeist, but I've never owned a Windows machine. This is even worse for Linux. At least OS X has some foothold on the corporate desktop which means OS X gets some "at work" hits on Google. Linux, not typically used as a desktop machine, doesn't even get that benefit.
So anyway, I'm not unhappy to see one of the many FUD tools taken from the hands of so many MS zealots.
--Rick "If it isn't broken, take it apart and find out why."
But looking right really isn't the problem. If you dont use IE only html and activeX. You can design a site to look exactly like what you want without using IE only functions. It might not look the same in Mozilla, but its going to look damn close. Hell if you do web design properly you could even let mozilla view your page without a css file so its unformatted. Of course IE only web designers still dont do layout with css, even though it will work in IE just fine.